The Good Fight (Good Wife Spin-off)

pixelburp

eagle eye wrote: »

This show and it's predecessor were not afraid to be bold about political stuff.

The Good Wife was absolutely a political show, hidden behind superficial layers of Alicia Florrick smirking or steamy middle-age affairs, and power talking with Eli Gold. Hell it was hot button enough it necessitated a cue card at the front of one episode because it aired around the time of the Ferguson protests. It dipped in and out of racial issues, sexism issues and as said above, it particularly loved looping topical items on technology through the Google / Facebook analogue, 'chumhum'. It was very much a 'ripped from the headlines' kinda show, dressed with the aforementioned Florrick (or Diane's ornate ostentatious jackets ).

And it's easy to roll our eyes at Trump obsession from the distance of being an Irish audience, but the reality is that for Americans it IS a huge deal. Doesn't matter how you feel about the man, his election is the biggest thing to happen US politics in a hundred years; and given how much politics coloured so many aspects of American life before Trump came along - again, something covered in Good Wife with stories of elections of all varieties -, it'd take some effort for a 'franchise', already steeped in topicality, to skirt the biggest elephant in the room.

is_that_so

pixelburp wrote: »

The Good Wife was absolutely a political show, hidden behind superficial layers of Alicia Florrick smirking or steamy middle-age affairs, and power talking with Eli Gold. Hell it was hot button enough it necessitated a cue card at the front of one episode because it aired around the time of the Ferguson protests. It dipped in and out of racial issues, sexism issues and as said above, it particularly loved looping topical items on technology through the Google / Facebook analogue, 'chumhum'. It was very much a 'ripped from the headlines' kinda show, dressed with the aforementioned Florrick (or Diane's ornate ostentatious jackets ).

And it's easy to roll our eyes at Trump obsession from the distance of being an Irish audience, but the reality is that for Americans it IS a huge deal. Doesn't matter how you feel about the man, his election is the biggest thing to happen US politics in a hundred years; and given how much politics coloured so many aspects of American life before Trump came along - again, something covered in Good Wife with stories of elections of all varieties -, it'd take some effort for a 'franchise', already steeped in topicality, to skirt the biggest elephant in the room.

Trump is covered every day on a multitude of shows. It really doesn't need yet another one doing it. SNL do this stuff a whole lot better as do any of the other late night shows. I'm inclined to look at the almost complete lack of lawyerin' in this. It is nominally a legal practice show and it's fast becoming day time soap!

Diceicle

pixelburp wrote: »

The Good Wife was absolutely a political show, hidden behind superficial layers of Alicia Florrick smirking or steamy middle-age affairs, and power talking with Eli Gold. Hell it was hot button enough it necessitated a cue card at the front of one episode because it aired around the time of the Ferguson protests. It dipped in and out of racial issues, sexism issues and as said above, it particularly loved looping topical items on technology through the Google / Facebook analogue, 'chumhum'. It was very much a 'ripped from the headlines' kinda show, dressed with the aforementioned Florrick (or Diane's ornate ostentatious jackets ).

And it's easy to roll our eyes at Trump obsession from the distance of being an Irish audience, but the reality is that for Americans it IS a huge deal. Doesn't matter how you feel about the man, his election is the biggest thing to happen US politics in a hundred years; and given how much politics coloured so many aspects of American life before Trump came along - again, something covered in Good Wife with stories of elections of all varieties -, it'd take some effort for a 'franchise', already steeped in topicality, to skirt the biggest elephant in the room.

Agree with first part - less so the second.
The topics they handle are clumsily done with little coherence - remember when all the associates were at each others throats over pay - what happended to that?
It feels thrown together I think.
The Good Wife was able to handle its topics in a clever way, had a consistent storyline(s) running through it and their characters acually had some time in court solving cases and whatnot. Allymcbeal2.0

pixelburp

is_that_so wrote: »

Trump is covered every day on a multitude of shows. It really doesn't need yet another one doing it. SNL do this stuff a whole lot better as do any of the other late night shows. I'm inclined to look at the almost complete lack of lawyerin' in this. It is nominally a legal practice show and it's fast becoming day time soap!

How much lawyering was in Good Wife in the end? It was as much a show about City Hall politics - especially once Alicia Florrick herself got into the game. There were subplots about her own firm and so on, but they often felt a bit half-hearted while the show tried to figure out her future path. And it was absolutely as soap-operatic, given the constant 'will they won't they' between Will and Alicia, or the pining after Jeffrey Dean Morgan's ludicrously cliché cowboy routine in that final season. It often felt like a show about Alicia's sex life more than anything, and you can't get more soap opera than that...

As to a 'need' to cover Trump, that's hardly a fair metric, and TBH speaks more to the viewers own personal reservoir of interest or patience. Who decides how much is too much, especially in a show whose claim to fame is PRECISELY its ability to put itself in the headlines? As I said, to Americans his presence has a huge effect on US life and this is bleeding into politics-adjacent industries such as law - as seen with Julius' own attempts to get a judicial position (sidebar: glad to finally see him get a little airtime, rather than the contrarian voice during Board squabbles).

Trump is an elephant in the room; I'm personally sick of Brexit being part of every damn conversation here, but I appreciate that it's a huge, inseparable factor of life - especially those living closer to the border where it'll have the most pronounced effect. We can debate how good or bad Good Fight is tackling the subject, but I don't believe it should avoid the subject because of some flimsy notion that others are doing it, or the viewer is personally fed up.

Plus, agree to disagree here because to me, SNL is as funny as a Tax Audit

corkie

Season 3 starting on RTE this week, Tuesday

S03E01 'The One About the Recent Troubles'

is_that_so

pixelburp wrote: »

How much lawyering was in Good Wife in the end? It was as much a show about City Hall politics - especially once Alicia Florrick herself got into the game. There were subplots about her own firm and so on, but they often felt a bit half-hearted while the show tried to figure out her future path. And it was absolutely as soap-operatic, given the constant 'will they won't they' between Will and Alicia, or the pining after Jeffrey Dean Morgan's ludicrously cliché cowboy routine in that final season. It often felt like a show about Alicia's sex life more than anything, and you can't get more soap opera than that...

You really can't compare a limited season show that has under 30 broadcast episodes with one of over 150. Shows evolve and The Good Wife did so in a believable way. Sure it went down cul de sacs but what show doesn't? Some never return. I can't say I ever noticed the sex life thing at all.

As to a 'need' to cover Trump, that's hardly a fair metric, and TBH speaks more to the viewers own personal reservoir of interest or patience. Who decides how much is too much, especially in a show whose claim to fame is PRECISELY its ability to put itself in the headlines? As I said, to Americans his presence has a huge effect on US life and this is bleeding into politics-adjacent industries such as law - as seen with Julius' own attempts to get a judicial position (sidebar: glad to finally see him get a little airtime, rather than the contrarian voice during Board squabbles).

Trump is an elephant in the room; I'm personally sick of Brexit being part of every damn conversation here, but I appreciate that it's a huge, inseparable factor of life - especially those living closer to the border where it'll have the most pronounced effect. We can debate how good or bad Good Fight is tackling the subject, but I don't believe it should avoid the subject because of some flimsy notion that others are doing it, or the viewer is personally fed up.

They don't even do the Trump segment well. Trump being what he is, most satire about him is as funny as a dead plant because the real thing often far outstrips it. Their approach is like a sledgehammer half the time and the format, currently, has been reduced to Trump obsession segment, annoying cartoon song and more chaos from Blum. That's a sitcom.

Plus, agree to disagree here because to me, SNL is as funny as a Tax Audit

Lots to dislike about SNL and they can miss quite badly but they do the Trump stuff very well, including when to ignore him!

gmisk

I am a few behind, I really enjoyed episode 4...despite the lack of any court cases. The songs do not work every week...they need to go.

Episode 5 I enjoyed a lot less...Michael Sheen is an absolute pain in the @rse...it is the most OTT Al Pacino esque performance.

I thought series 1 and 2 of this show were fantastic the 3rd series has been a huge disappointment hopefully it picks up.

pixelburp

is_that_so wrote: »

You really can't compare a limited season show that has under 30 broadcast episodes with one of over 150. Shows evolve and The Good Wife did so in a believable way. Sure it went down cul de sacs but what show doesn't? Some never return. I can't say I ever noticed the sex life thing at all.

Of course you can compare: it's a direct spin-off, featuring two of the Main Cast from Good Wife, in the same city & roles, as is spearheaded by the brains behind the former show. Heck even the name is similar, and I suspect was only changed because 'The Good Wife' as a title became redundant once Marguilies left.

As you just say, shows evolve and Good Wife evolved into one that was strongly political, often satirical in its outlook. It backdoored a lot of its more topical material via office soap opera shenanigans, or legal cases. And as the law-firm stories dried up - or became tediously circular - said political angles became more prominent with Eli Gold & Alicia's political career becoming the focus. IMO, The Good Fight continues that streak, and that tone - even if it has ratcheted the comedic elements to 11. Which, in a world where a literal stand-up comedian is elected as President of the Ukraine, seems in keeping with the times. TBH, satire as we know it is kinda dead I suppose.

Look, I do get it, some folks just aren't taking a shine to this season, or the show in general; I just don't agree it's some divergent mutant offspring that bares no resemblance to the original. We can quibble on the preferred, exact amount of legal cases (which, to loop in your comment about episode number is much easier with a 22 episode order, where filler becomes a necessity), but the two shows are genetically related IMO Seems like Good Wife hid its intention better...

JP Liz V1

It has been renewed for a 4th season at CBS All Access

pixelburp

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

It has been renewed for a 4th season at CBS All Access

Makes sense, I presume it and Star Trek Discovery are the services leading lights. At least they're the only two shows I've heard of airing exclusively on it...

Agent Coulson

CBS All Access has some great exclusively made shows on it.

It's a hidden jem of a streaming service for the price of $5.99.

gmisk

Agent Coulson wrote: »

CBS All Access has some great exclusively made shows on it.

It's a hidden jem of a streaming service for the price of $5.99.

*Paid for CBS All Access



It doesnt look to have a huge amount of original content
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_original_programs_distributed_by_CBS_All_Access
I am guessing you would also need a VPN etc to access it in Ireland?

gmisk

I have seen the latest episode.
I really enjoyed seeing lots of Cush Jumbo in this episode

the Melania divorce storyline was err random (surely the book group trying to get the tape?)...Diane and her axes random Gina Gershon was excellent. I really still dislike the Michael Sheen character...insanely OTT. It was nice to see Bishop I will say. It's obvious what bloom is up to, Diane is the sane one for a change. I will keep watching, but a bloody court case would be nice once in a while!!! Also Maia not in it...meh no loss at all

Agent Coulson

Cush Jumbo is so good.


Downton Abbey

pixelburp

Jumbo was a fantastic addition in later Good Wife, and IMO quickly stole the spotlight from the nominal lead; it was no surprise she followed Diane into spin-off land. Also one of those British actors with a fairly soft, organic US accent (to these ears anyway), as opposed to the 'yankee' twang the likes of Hugh Laurie does (again though, scarcely an expert)

Addle

She’s English?! That’s a surprise.

TheValeyard

I'm enjoying this season, but those songs are killing the show.

On the other hand, Michael Sheens character is brilliant.

pixelburp

Addle wrote: »

She’s English?! That’s a surprise.

When you google American TV shows, you'll often find the cast bulked out with Canadians and/or British & Irish actors. Given the tax breaks and how many shows film in Canada, the former's probably not that surprising. And I guess the key to a good accent is not noticing it

gmisk

pixelburp wrote: »

When you google American TV shows, you'll often find the cast bulked out with Canadians and/or British & Irish actors. Given the tax breaks and how many shows film in Canada, the former's probably not that surprising. And I guess the key to a good accent is not noticing it

I think English/Aussie actors are sometimes referred to as white mexicans...I am guessing they are sometimes cheaper alternative.



American/Canada tv shows are littered with them.
The good doctor being an example, the lead and the second lead both british.

dark crystal

Lucca's new fella....hubba hubba!!


I thought that was the best episode to date, tbh. Nice guest appearance from Kathy Najimy, diehard Democrat

vargoo

Is lucca not still with your man running for senate/or governor???

Credit Checker Moose

Nope.

vargoo

Credit Checker Moose wrote: »

Nope.

I don't remember them breaking up??

pixelburp

Watched the Melania episode via All4 today, a good wheeze (pretty much because it was Luca centric), even if it repeated the same tricks as the peepee tape episode from previous, never tipping its hand so much the audience can know for sure.

I've wondered before, but I'm presuming 1st amendment rights are tight enough that the writers can have public figures so front and centre in a story. I've never known a fictional TV show so brazen in presenting real life politicians - and their scandals - as integral to the show.

Agent Coulson

‘The Good Fight’ Censored By CBS All Access For Subject Matter Concern

An episode of CBS All Access series The Good Fight was censored by the network because of concerns over subject matter. The latest episode, titled The One Where Kurt Saves Diane, had a black screen appear emblazoned with the message, “CBS HAS CENSORED THIS CONTENT.” The message appeared just before its weekly animated short.

Apparently, the network had concerns with the subject matter put forth in the segment by series creators Robert and Michelle King. The Good Fight is known for pushing creative boundaries.

According to sources, the scene in question was flagged by CBS’ Standards and Practices division, and series creators Robert and Michelle King, in concert with CBS All Access/CBS TV Studios, made the creative decision to replace the content in question with the censorship message.

A CBS All Access spokesperson confirmed that the message was negotiated. “We had concerns with some subject matter in the episode’s animated short. This is the creative solution that we agreed upon with the producers.”
TVLine reports the Kings were going to depict the tactics used by US companies to break into the Chinese market, a subject covered in the episode’s B-story regarding a client, fictional search engine ChumHum.
The Good Fight series picks up a year after the events in the final episode of its predecessor, legal drama The Good Wife. It covers the journey of Diana Lockhart (Christine Baranski), who is forced to start at the bottom after a financial scam wipes out her savings.

There are two more episodes in The Good Fight‘s third season. The series has already been renewed for Season 4.

https://deadline.com/2019/05/the-good-fight-censored-cbs-all-access-1202607633/

pixelburp

Well that's ... weird. What kind of concerns would have it removed; security I guess? Considering the US China relationship at the moment ...

Addle

With some of the stuff trying has been broadcast, it must be bad!
More 4 will probably show it?

Captain Red Beard

I watched it a couple of nights ago and wasn't sure if it was real or just a joke.

TheValeyard

Agent Coulson wrote: »

‘The Good Fight’ Censored By CBS All Access For Subject Matter Concern



https://deadline.com/2019/05/the-good-fight-censored-cbs-all-access-1202607633/

Bizarre. Wonder if there is Chinese money behind the show. Just like the way they had to change the bad guys from Red Dawn to North Korea rather than China.

gmisk

Loved Cush Jumbo and her possible new love interest they had serious chemistry.
Also even enjoyed Sheen to a degree this episode, the part are the glass on office was hilarious

Agent Coulson

The episode was censored about its dig at Chinese censorship.

Agent Coulson

That was a good episode this week.

Mia stabbing Marissa in the back.

is_that_so

Two much improved episodes in 7 & 8, songs aside. Second one better - no Blum is always good! Book club stuff is really like watching strung out junkies at this stage.

is_that_so

So latest one is decent enough, despite Blum. Really don't get the purpose of a most unpleasant and intrinsically mendacious character, save for Sheen to overact to his heart's content. It's not his dubious qualities that are the problem, it's the credibility that such a loudmouth con artist has been able to get away with it for so long without disbarment. Also good to see themes that emerged earlier coming to the fore again. They would have made for a more interesting season IMO rather that the dogged pursuit of the unhinged Stepford Wives , the Trump crap and the dreary antics of Blum.

pixelburp

Episode 7 via All4 and the first time I thought the Trump plotline faltered; the script made a good case for showing the Book Club as themselves part of the problem in advocating hacking, complete with a stirring speech from Diane about honesty in voting ... ... then she decides f*ck it, cos turns out the Reps were already hacking the machines.

As always Lucca (and Marissa) were the highlight, with the former the ostensible lead character really. Lots of chemistry with her new English toy, more chemistry than the senator anyway.

The Blum stuff I liked too, I can sorta see why someone constantly operating under "war" conditions might get by on sheer manic power alone. Especially when others seem to constantly underestimate him, as Boseman did. He's definitely better used in small doses, the force of chaos though.

is_that_so

Was just looking down through the cast list of the Good Fight and interesting to note that almost all of the main actors are from a stage background. It shows in how they perform.

eagle eye

Latest episode was pretty good. Even the end is funny.

AndrewJRenko

pixelburp wrote: »

As always Lucca (and Marissa) were the highlight, with the former the ostensible lead character really. Lots of chemistry with her new English toy, more chemistry than the senator anyway.

I lolled at her, a Brit, doing a Yank doing a Brit.

gmisk

I watched episode 8, the chum hum episode, for me it was probably the strongest one this season.
I really enjoyed the court scenes.
Cush Jumbo excellent as usual, it was lovely seeing Jane Curtin popping up

Diceicle

Watched episodes 8 & 9 last night - thought they were the 2 strongest of a fairly weak and flouncy season.
The trailer for the Finale looks interesting which sets the next season up for a good run and a (hopeful) return to form.

Agent Coulson

Just as Mia and Blum were growing on me

they drive off into the sunset

The cliffhanger ending this season!!

TheValeyard

Really liked the Blum character.

So the censoring of the short about the Chinese govt was hilarious for a couple of reasons 1) China and censorship, which we all know about 2) for a show that keeps trying to show us that liberals =good and conservatives/Trump = bad, it's pretty pathetic for CBS to censor that clip. They are more concerned with entry and money from the Chinese market than anything else.

Captain Red Beard

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Just as Mia and Blum were growing on me

they drive off into the sunset

The cliffhanger ending this season!!

Yeah I was just starting to like him. The ending though,

swatted

by the book club?

ziedth

Am I the only one who groans at the fairly constant Black/White favouritism thing that keeps getting brought up? I did like how it started to turn in on itself and how everyone felt victimized to the point that the mail guys were calling out people. Not sure if that is what they were going for but it was a perfect example of everyone trying to play a victim.

Really not sure about the Luca "not being black enough" thing played out right. I don't know about anyone else but if I would have told them to go **** themselves as soon as I heard. Seems strange that a character portrayed as being so strong just kind of shrugs it off.

It's a frustrating show in that it can he every bit as good as the good wife but it can really get under my skin too. He was having almost too much fun in the role but the show will suffer without Blum and Maya.

I'd love for them to try and show Eli back into it....

Agent Coulson

The black enough thing is something that is happening in America at the moment.


Example; Will Smith was cast as Tiger Woods father and some parts of the black community kicked up that he wasn't black enough and this was once again Hollywood trying to white wash with light skinned black actors playing darker skinned black people.

AndrewJRenko

Murray TheDemonic TalkingSkull wrote: »

So the censoring of the short about the Chinese govt was hilarious for a couple of reasons 1) China and censorship, which we all know about 2) for a show that keeps trying to show us that liberals =good and conservatives/Trump = bad, it's pretty pathetic for CBS to censor that clip. They are more concerned with entry and money from the Chinese market than anything else.

Isn't it a bit more nuanced than that? They certainly play the Trump=bad card, but after that, they also do show the good conservatives, like Kurt and the election observer pair and the bad democrats too (the stout lady who was negotiating a potential role for the firm last season).

is_that_so

Slightly odd end to a very odd season, end of times indeed. Trump touches - subtle for a change, lots of well-observed little vignettes. End of some things one would hope, especially the songs.

pixelburp

Just on the Maia-Marissa betrayal episode, the penultimate it seems, and yeah, I think reading Good Fight as being propagandist is a little reductionist. It definitely writes with a more liberal pen, but its liberal analogues are not heroes.

Diane was definitely wasted as part of that storyline but there was a constant thread woven throughout her arc of how rabid liberals had become: first in that chaotic meeting that descended into infighting a few episodes back (not woke enough!), and lately the Book Club who are basically terrorists now with their SWATing (for those not in the know, this is a real thing, done by inline gamers and yes has caused accidental deaths). The Good Fight is fairly clear; the anti Trump brigade are as potentially dangerous, especially those under the "whatever it takes" banner.

Even in Reddick-Boseman, the show shows the pitfalls of identity politics without context or dialled back paranoia, the associates tearing each other apart, with the kicker being that EVERY grievance was valid (even bringing class into the issue via the poor souls in the mail room, which seems a much rarer topic in US circles).

If anything, I think the show has a sort of Old versus Young viewpoint: Diane, the older more laid back liberal, finds herself at odds with the zealotry of younger cohorts (in fact I remember a season 2 episode where she got into a fight with a 3rd wave feminist, who saw the older feminist a sellout), while older heads like Julius, Boseman et al struggle to keep up with the mania of modern day.

Luca and Marissa are the exceptions but they're kinda senior in their own right, being from the previous show. I think the underlying message isn't "liberals are good", I'm wondering if it isn't "the young have gone nuts".

gmisk

Finally got round to watching the last episode of this season.
Overall it was actually a pretty excellent episode!
The court based scenes were fun as well.
I think I have actually kind of come around to bloom and Maia as well, they bounce well off each other. The lightning balls thing was err different.

The series overall has been a tad patchy (especially as series 1 and 2 were so strong) hopefully the next series ditches the resistance group and the constant Trump angles on everything.
Oh and no more mid episode songs!!

pixelburp

I say, more songs!

Finished the last episode myself and certainly ends on a hell of a cliffhanger. The lightning balls element was a good bookending of the overall feel, that maybe that world had indeed lost its mind.