NARGC county board affiliation

deeksofdoom

Question for the gun club officers here.

How much does your respective county boards charge affiliation fees per member in your club.

In cork it's over €20 affiliation fee per head at the moment, so for an average size club of 20 members you have to pay the county board €400 approx affiliation fees, before you can get your NARGC insurance.

How much do your county boards charge your clubs for affiliation fees, is it per head or per club?

Vegeta

It is a fixed fee of €100 per club for our county.

deeksofdoom

What County is that please?

grassroot1

In fairness to Cork I think they give back a significant amount of money in grants and subsidies.
I think our club pay 40 affiliation and 6 euro a head per member.

cavan shooter

It's 50 per club in Cavan.

deeksofdoom

grassroot1 wrote: »

In fairness to Cork I think they give back a significant amount of money in grants and subsidies.
I think our club pay 40 affiliation and 6 euro a head per member.

What county board are you in?

Yes they do give back to the club, but your never going to get the whole 400 back in a year. Not in an average club like ours anyway.

There's a lot more options out there now, NARGC has had its day.

bluezulu49

Wicklow €127 per club.

Dublin €5 per member in 2016, will rise to €10 per member in 2017.

cavan shooter

With money you lot are talking you must be getting some benefits....

deeksofdoom

cavan shooter wrote: »

With money you lot are talking you must be getting some benefits....

Yeah they will subsidise traps and various bits and pieces, but the money that you have to pay them probably cancels out any benefits you think you are getting from them. So the subsidised traps are actually the most expensive traps you will ever buy.

cavan shooter

deeksofdoom wrote:

Yeah they will subsidise traps and various bits and pieces, but the money that you have to pay them probably cancels out any benefits you think you are getting from them. So the subsidised traps are actually the most expensive traps you will ever buy.

I know the NARGC subsidises traps. The County board gets 1/2 of what's spent and then it's divided amongst those who purchased. But with the subs being talked about here the traps should be free. Is the County shoot free or something? Are they adding to the bird subsidy?.

p28559

The way I see it is that the sub paid in flows back in duck/pheasant subsidy and the predator equip Grant..but it is no more than what you put in you get back...you have to put a value in the representation made on your behalf at a national level in firearms, draft legislation etc. It is like being part of any "trade union"

grassroot1

deeksofdoom wrote: »

What county board are you in?

Yes they do give back to the club, but your never going to get the whole 400 back in a year. Not in an average club like ours anyway.

There's a lot more options out there now, NARGC has had its day.

Can you get better cover than the compensation fund from the other providers?
Have you ever brought up the high affiliation costs in Cork at any meetings?

deeksofdoom

grassroot1 wrote: »

Can you get better cover than the compensation fund from the other providers?
Have you ever brought up the high affiliation costs in Cork at any meetings?

I just want to know what your affiliation fees are and what out your your with.

You can't go mouthing off in any meeting without establishing facts first and that's all I'm trying to do for the time being.

grassroot1

deeksofdoom wrote: »

I just want to know what your affiliation fees are and what out your your with.

You can't go mouthing off in any meeting without establishing facts first and that's all I'm trying to do for the time being.

Well you are quite right to establish the facts first but your problem seems to be with the fees charged by your RGC.
You should never be afraid to question anything at any level in our association.
It is my opinion but I dont think the NARGC has had its day as you put it.

deeksofdoom

grassroot1 wrote: »

Well you are quite right to establish the facts first but your problem seems to be with the fees charged by your RGC.
You should never be afraid to question anything at any level in our association.
It is my opinion but I dont think the NARGC has had its day as you put it.

Yes 100% with the RGC, nothing wrong with NARGC insurance, but the NARGC model probably needs an overhaul
To cut out the middleman.

cavan shooter

grassroot1 wrote:

Can you get better cover than the compensation fund from the other providers? Have you ever brought up the high affiliation costs in Cork at any meetings?

The compensation fund is tried and tested and actually pays out. I have experience of that luckily not me personally but know lads that have broken ankles, dog claims etc. They deal with ut quickly and if ling enough in the game you know the fund administrator. The CAI and IFA are insurances of last resort.

The fund membership is €55 plus whatever your club is. I'm in two Clubs so it's an additional 30 and 20. BASC is £74, so all in all its not too bad.

The club then pays an affiliation to the County. I must say from reading above some of it especially cork is eye watering. I hope your getting value for money.

Similiar to alot of lads I don't really need to be in a club but there is good craic and I enjoy it

cavan shooter

deeksofdoom wrote:

Yes 100% with the RGC, nothing wrong with NARGC insurance, but the NARGC model probably needs an overhaul To cut out the middleman.

The Clubs are a problem they need to let people in. RGC is a good idea it organises at county level. But some seem ****e.

berettaman

deeksofdoom wrote: »

Yes 100% with the RGC, nothing wrong with NARGC insurance, but the NARGC model probably needs an overhaul
To cut out the middleman.

Wexford: each club pays €30 affiliation to the Co. RGC
Each member pays €6 on top of €50 comp fund fee.. all safety courses/game development etc run from that...not much but they seem to make it work..

cavan shooter

berettaman wrote:

Wexford: each club pays €30 affiliation to the Co. RGC Each member pays €6 on top of €50 comp fund fee.. all safety courses/game development etc run from that...not much but they seem to make it work..

So all the safety courses etc are free.?

berettaman

cavan shooter wrote: »

So all the safety courses etc are free.?

Yep..safety course includes a hot meal ( actual spuds and chicken etc:D)

don't charge for game development courses etc..

All in all not bad. They would probably like to do more but sure then costs would rise

grassroot1

deeksofdoom wrote: »

Yes 100% with the RGC, nothing wrong with NARGC insurance, but the NARGC model probably needs an overhaul
To cut out the middleman.

I cannot disagree with your logic. Good luck with your efforts.
You seem to be someone who will do something rather than whine about it.
The NARGC needs more like you.

ldc

Hi deeksofdoom
Lets avoid any misunderstandings between different RGC’s and what each offers and they are usually different. Below please find the payments and benefits that Cork provide as far as I can recall.
The club breakdown for full members is; €50.00 for the NARGC,made up of app €30 for day to day business and €20 for Insurance,(may be €5 out) €22.00 for Cork and whatever extra after that clubs charge is for their own club.
Last year Cork fees as stated consisted of €22 per ordinary member. (Juvenile and OAP benefit from reduced costs.) The extra €2 was voted in by the Cork Governing body over a year ago for to aid in funding a PHD student engaged in woodcock research. Down through the last good many years Cork has been at the forefront of supporting woodcock research and have put many many thousands of Euros in the kitty for this important research into our most treasured game bird. As you know woodcock are in trouble and we need to be proactive as a RGC.
Pheasant Subsidy €1.50 for the first 150 birds per club
Duck Subsidy, mainly an NARGC subsidy but Cork pay for transport and any other expenses. We get about 1000 birds resulting in an end cost to clubs of €1.50 each
Game Bird Crate subsidy, extremely robust and large, subsidised cost of €30 each to clubs
Tree Subsidy, Hardwood trees are 3-4 ft high except for whitethorn,
• Alder, Birch, Whitethorn 40c
• Oak 50c
• Beech 60c
• Sweet Chestnut €1.00
Vermin Subsidy, Cap of €1000 per club. (will change this year to a max spend amount for the federation for obvious reasons)
Game Crop Subsidy, both NARGC and Cork Federation
• John’s delight €25 per acre bag
• Utopia €16 per acre bag

Humane Trap Subsidies, Larsen Traps €60, mink Traps €30, not the usual rubbish, strong and robust and built to last. Yes you can buy cheaper but quality costs and there is a large subsidy allowed from what they are bought for to the price clubs get them at.
Proficiency course, once a year with many additional NARGC Certificate of Achievement courses ran in between so that no one is held up for getting an opportunity to procure a firearm licence. The proficiency course is one day, classroom am, lunch and practical at a clay ground PM with tuition. NARGC members €10, others €30 with €20 refunded if they join a NARGC club.
Federation Club of the year competition with prizes
Conservation Grant is available for clubs with worthwhile projects, a club has just received a €1000 euro grant in the last few weeks.

Those are just the grants, the federation also actively support other initiatives.

Cork Fed are always looking for new Executive members, as Grassroots1 says, You seem to be someone who will do something rather than whine about it.a post for Youth Development Officer is open at the moment for instance, you could make a difference.
All of these costs and subsidies are agreed with the governing body and Cork Fed is run on a democratic basis, Change is usually welcome and new ideas are always needed.

deeksofdoom

Ldc,

Thanks for taking the time with your post. I think the way that the affiliation fees are structured was a good idea back in the day, an attempt to get clubs proactively involved with the federation. However this is only working for some clubs where there is strong membership, leadership and even a few executive members on the club committee to guide the club in the right direction. But unfortunately this is not the way in our club and I think it may also be true of several other clubs in the region. Basically our members feel we are being bled dry in order to fund these other clubs and the money used for affiliation fees can be better spent within the club on our own club initiatives without having to go through the fed.

I'm sure that there are a lot of clubs whose only interaction with the federation is the bill for the affiliation fees every year. No attempt ever made to find out why clubs they are not actively participating with the federation, find out how they are doing or if they need help.

The Cork Federation will have to a long way to impress me yet.

I'm not anti NARGC and would hate to leave the fund, but there doesn't seem to be any alternative.

Glenbulldog

berettaman wrote: »

Yep..safety course includes a hot meal ( actual spuds and chicken etc:D)

don't charge for game development courses etc..

All in all not bad. They would probably like to do more but sure then costs would rise

Berettaman ,in Wexford are they only subsidising duck

grassroot1

Ldc and deeksofdoom
you guys are not as far apart on your argument as it might seem from the outset,
I am in awe of Cork Fed and its efforts to improve shooting for the future, however if you have to face an affiliation that high and cannot claim back some of those subsidies I can understand the difficulties.
I would expect to see this debated in Cork shortly. Cork will lead from the front as always

deeksofdoom

Whenever there is a challenge to the cost of the affiliation fees in Cork, the federation always come out swinging with the blurb Idc gave on what you can get in terms of subsidies, its not going to work this time I'm afraid. We've looked at what we put into the federation and what we get out and it doesn't add up.
They will not adjust their affiliation fees and I don't expect to hear anymore from them on that, its time for clubs in Cork to take the matter into their own hands.

Rimfire Shooter

deeks don't the clubs send the delegates to the Federation? Surely if enough clubs want change their delegates can vote for it?

deeksofdoom

Rimfire Shooter wrote: »

deeks don't the clubs send the delegates to the Federation? Surely if enough clubs want change their delegates can vote for it?

Not sure how that would work, but I'ld say that for a delegate to make a proposal like that off the floor he would want to have a fairly substantial backing from the other delegates, otherwise he would be eaten alive and never seen again.

270WIN

AFAIK In limerick tis €1.50 for each member that goes to the RGC. The top table there is a closed shop...youd want serious backing from the floor to shift any of them. I reckon the vast majority are in the NARGC for the insurance and nothing else.

Rimfire Shooter

deeksofdoom wrote: »

Not sure how that would work, but I'ld say that for a delegate to make a proposal like that off the floor he would want to have a fairly substantial backing from the other delegates, otherwise he would be eaten alive and never seen again.

That's true but if enough clubs want change then this would be the way to do it. As you say anyone from a club moving on their own won't get far. The Federation delegates are from the clubs. The clubs should be telling them what they want done & then it's up to them to see can they get it. IIRC 2 x each club at Federation/RGC level has 2 x votes.

270WIN wrote: »

I reckon the vast majority are in the NARGC for the insurance and nothing else.

+1 to that, myself included.

270WIN

Rimfire Shooter wrote: »

That's true but if enough clubs want change then this would be the way to do it. As you say anyone from a club moving on their own won't get far. The Federation delegates are from the clubs. The clubs should be telling them what they want done & then it's up to them to see can they get it. IIRC 2 x each club at Federation/RGC level has 2 x votes.



+1 to that, myself included.

Me too,,,i get f all out of my club...worse than useless

cavan shooter

270WIN wrote:

AFAIK I reckon the vast majority are in the NARGC for the insurance and nothing else.

That's a pity. Your Club and your RGC are what you make of it.

Our Club have a core of 20 lads that partake in everything and another 10 who turn up the odd time. Not everyone is into clays same way not everyone likes to do or has the time for fox drives but a Club is a Club " a gathering of like minded persons with similiar interests"

I love my shooting and hunting and love the craic that a well ran club/county can provide. Even the organising of a shoot is good craic..the couple of pints/ the soup and Sandwich after a mix bag or fox drive.

However if the Club is off track put it back on track. If it won't stay on track set up another Club minus the arseholes that are so set in there ways they can't see the damage that is being done.

As for a County board you as a club have the power to change your top table. If they are doing a good job keep them in, but ask questions of them at the meetings, pull them up on things ask them to explain what they are doing. If you are not happy tell them, and ultimately change them.

Push and challenge. It's your duty as an affiliated club delegate/ member to do so. Would the local GAA or Soccer Club accept it poor management. I don't think so...so why should you or I.

ldc

In Cork the top table is always looking for members but there is a sad lack of applicants. Yes the fees are structured to suit clubs who actually do rear pheasant, stock duck, plant game crops and control vermin. It is not the fed who benefit, it is the clubs, the federation is just the mechanism. The governing body which is made up of 2 voting members from each club decide on the fees etc and together with their input the federation devise the best way to give back most of the money. It is quite correct to suggest that some clubs do very little, some do not even shoot much I believe. It is untrue to suggest that the federation does not contact them to attempt to get them involved or to help if needed. Three times last year an offer was made to all clubs that the federation executive would visit them and do presentations, talk about insurance, meet and greet, discuss problems and hopefully solve some. The suggestion was also made that if a club did not feel they could get enough of their members then they could gather their neighbouring clubs and do a group meet.There is no charge so no cost to the club, they just provide the premise. So far regretfully only 1 club took up the offer and they did bring their neighbouring clubs and according to the members that attended they found it well worth while. That meet was in a pub venue by the way. Perhaps your club might take this option up and discuss their issues in a more local venue.
I can only suggest that your club delegates at even perhaps the quarterly next week under AOB stand up and express their feelings. The Executive will themselves not eat you, they are there to facilitate and help all clubs, other clubs will have different opinions and some will support and some will not but they will all say why they agree or do not agree. Change can only come through dialogue., You are saying that it is time for clubs in cork to take matters into their own hands, all I am pointing out is that the clubs have that power, they always had, but you do need to make your case. At the next AGM you then put in a motion and all the clubs democratically vote on it. What passes passes. Any Federation Officer or Executive member is there to support all clubs, there is a perception that they support only their own clubs and what they want but that is not true. Big clubs of 50 or small clubs of 15 each have 2 votes, there is no difference because of size when voting time comes.
And an emphatic YES to NARGC insurance, it is by far the best for yourselves and for the farmer without whom we would have no sport, nothing else compares yet and no one settles promptly and usually agreeably like the NARGC.
Unless you have a question I can answer I cannot be of any more help to you so I will sign off this thread. I do not normally look or post and only picked up because of the heading.

deeksofdoom

cavan shooter wrote: »

That's a pity. Your Club and your RGC are what you make of it.

Our Club have a core of 20 lads that partake in everything and another 10 who turn up the odd time. Not everyone is into clays same way not everyone likes to do or has the time for fox drives but a Club is a Club " a gathering of like minded persons with similiar interests"

I love my shooting and hunting and love the craic that a well ran club/county can provide. Even the organising of a shoot is good craic..the couple of pints/ the soup and Sandwich after a mix bag or fox drive.

However if the Club is off track put it back on track. If it won't stay on track set up another Club minus the arseholes that are so set in there ways they can't see the damage that is being done.

As for a County board you as a club have the power to change your top table. If they are doing a good job keep them in, but ask questions of them at the meetings, pull them up on things ask them to explain what they are doing. If you are not happy tell them, and ultimately change them.

Push and challenge. It's your duty as an affiliated club delegate/ member to do so. Would the local GAA or Soccer Club accept it poor management. I don't think so...so why should you or I.

This thread isn't about how active or inactive you are in your club. Its about affiliation fees and getting value from money and how relevant it is to have a middleman creaming off the profits of a clubs hard earned cash to give to other clubs who the governing body decides are more deserving of your cash than you are.

cavan shooter

deeksofdoom wrote:

This thread isn't about how active or inactive you are in your club. Its about affiliation fees and getting value from money and how relevant it is to have a middleman creaming off the profits of a clubs hard earned cash to give to other clubs who the governing body decides are more deserving of your cash than you are.

If your not happy it's up to you to call a halt or change it.

It's up to you to challenge how the money is spent.

deeksofdoom

ldc wrote: »

It is untrue to suggest that the federation does not contact them to attempt to get them involved or to help if needed. Three times last year an offer was made to all clubs that the federation executive would visit them and do presentations, talk about insurance, meet and greet, discuss problems and hopefully solve some. The suggestion was also made that if a club did not feel they could get enough of their members then they could gather their neighbouring clubs and do a group meet.There is no charge so no cost to the club, they just provide the premise. So far regretfully only 1 club took up the offer and they did bring their neighbouring clubs and according to the members that attended they found it well worth while. That meet was in a pub venue by the way. Perhaps your club might take this option up and discuss their issues in a more local venue.

We did not at any stage last year receive any communication from the federation with offers of any sort of help.

Ye did manage to get the right address for the bill for the affiliation fees, so that part of the machine is working fine.

ldc

Hi,
I am not going to get into an argument with you, i suggest on the matter of the offers made to clubs you talk to your delegates who attended the quarterly meetings. I cannot make either the mails or the minutes available.
I must however apologize for not picking up on what you meant by cutting out the middleman, I had assumed the thread was about affiliation fees and benefits in different RGC's but in actuality what you wish to do is to change the NARGC model and do away with the County Boards. Those are the middlemen you refer to.
I would think that that is a different matter entirely. I suspect that would require a change to the NARGC constitution at the very least and probably a lot more. You need to take that up at NARGC top level owing to the voting being from all different counties. I understand that in the near future Cork will be receiving a visit from NARGC Officers and i suggest that at that meeting you or your club delegates bring that point up, they would be better placed to advise you or perhaps someone else on this forum can, i know that that idea was mentioned in a club recently but not sure how it progressed.I can mention it to the Chairman so he will have some thoughts prepared though.

cavan shooter

ldc wrote: »

I understand that in the near future Cork will be receiving a visit from NARGC Officers..

Heard that also NARGC Executive has offered to go to any of the Regions to hear any issues. Sort of from the grass roots approach...brilliant idea, not knocking our lads but it would be nice to have a coffee and a chat.

Backbarrel

Members of the Exec visiting the regions?

I think that is a great idea. I have heard lads asking questions of their own secretaries etc but why not go to the source?

What is needed to kick that off, an invite from the Executive in the region or can a couple of clubs get together and invite them down?

cavan shooter

Backbarrel wrote:

What is needed to kick that off, an invite from the Executive in the region or can a couple of clubs get together and invite them down?

I'd say mention it to the RGC...if you want to get formal shouldn't take more than 5 clubs like what you need for an egm.

cavan shooter

cavan shooter wrote:

Heard that also NARGC Executive has offered to go to any of the Regions to hear any issues. Sort of from the grass roots approach...brilliant idea, not knocking our lads but it would be nice to have a coffee and a chat.

Was in Kilworth today and chatting to a chap in the know ..The NARGC Executive will be in Cork to answer questions from Clubs the end of the Month. Not sure if it's true but this lad is quite active and thought it's definetly happening.

brieny1000

Well ,anyone else at the meeting last night.what did ye think? I thought the lads from the NARGC gave a great presentation. Answered a load of questions that we have been trying to get answers to, it looks like there is a bright,open future to the association contrary to what we were led to believe.

pfizer

brieny1000 wrote: »

Well ,anyone else at the meeting last night.what did ye think? I thought the lads from the NARGC gave a great presentation. Answered a load of questions that we have been trying to get answers to, it looks like there is a bright,open future to the association contrary to what we were led to believe.

(it looks like there is a bright,open future to the association)
Well Rathcormac Gun Club have come fourth in the senior club of year 2016 and they are all countryside Alliance so some one in cork fed is telling Porkies again.

deeksofdoom

pfizer wrote: »

(it looks like there is a bright,open future to the association)
Well Rathcormac Gun Club have come fourth in the senior club of year 2016 and they are all countryside Alliance so some one in cork fed is telling Porkies again.

Is that a national competition or is it just among the clubs in Cork?

cavan shooter

brieny1000 wrote: »

Well ,anyone else at the meeting last night.what did ye think? I thought the lads from the NARGC gave a great presentation. Answered a load of questions that we have been trying to get answers to, it looks like there is a bright,open future to the association contrary to what we were led to believe.

what are you being led to believe, NARGC will always be there its got a membership of near 30,000 the faces will change thats all.

cavan shooter

deeksofdoom wrote: »

pfizer wrote: »

(it looks like there is a bright,open future to the association)
Well Rathcormac Gun Club have come fourth in the senior club of year 2016 and they are all countryside Alliance so some one in cork fed is telling Porkies again.

Is that a national competition or is it just among the clubs in Cork?

Club of the year is National....God wouldn't it be funny if they judged a Countryside Alliance Club...now that guy who put in the application was some chancer....:ermm:

brieny1000

There were a lot of negative rumors being passed down
ie .Fund being depleted, gross misconduct, numerous other court cases to name but a few. Thankfully these were all shown to be untrue.
It looks like there is a much bigger problem a lot closer to home.
True that faces change ,sometimes good,sometimes bad. My impression is that this is one of the good times.
It is certainly time for a few faces to change here in cork .

deeksofdoom

brieny1000 wrote: »

There were a lot of negative rumors being passed down
ie .Fund being depleted, gross misconduct, numerous other court cases to name but a few. Thankfully these were all shown to be untrue.
It looks like there is a much bigger problem a lot closer to home.
True that faces change ,sometimes good,sometimes bad. My impression is that this is one of the good times.
It is certainly time for a few faces to change here in cork .

What exactly are the problems that are closer to home?

cavan shooter

brieny1000 wrote: »

There were a lot of negative rumors being passed down
ie .Fund being depleted, gross misconduct, numerous other court cases to name but a few. Thankfully these were all shown to be untrue.
It looks like there is a much bigger problem a lot closer to home.
True that faces change ,sometimes good,sometimes bad. My impression is that this is one of the good times.
It is certainly time for a few faces to change here in cork .

that ****e again....thought you lads were rock solid in the PRC.......
Im dead curious in the post above can you shed any light on a Countryside Alliance Club getting 4th in the NARGC Club of the year...has to be a scurrilous rumour.

cavan shooter

deeksofdoom wrote: »

What exactly are the problems that are closer to home?

Deeks, Did you get to go to the meeting?? would have been an opportunity for you to ask a lot of the questions you had here.

deeksofdoom

cavan shooter wrote: »

Deeks, Did you get to go to the meeting?? would have been an opportunity for you to ask a lot of the questions you had here.

No I was unable to make it and I know from past experience that I'ld be booed out of the hall.

I would also like to know how a country alliance club came 4th in a NARGC competition.