Public Health (Alcohol) Bill being debated in the Seanad at the moment.

Wibbs

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Welcome to the RC Church hangover from the RC church for those not in the RC Church. We know better than you little people.

For me the Catholic Church at its peak in Ireland was just another symptom of the seemingly inbuilt Irish need for authority and scrabble for same among a minority of power hungry gombeen gauleiters. The "Irish Rebel" image is a lot of my bollocks IMH. Outside of Ireland yes and thankfully a few pockets within, but generally this nation is a culture of forelock tuggers who prefer to be directed from on high. That "high" has worn different hats through the ages. The English wore it for a good while. They were barely gone from the place and the vacuum they left was rapidly filled by Vatican City. Now they're gone and we're still adrift slightly, though the EU fulfils that external authority with quite a few.

These Seanad muppets don't exist in a vacuum and their little monkey brains know it enough to milk it. Neither do the parish pump politics that repeatedly vomit forth ever more gobshítes come election. They're elected in FFS. The Catholic Church, that previous master and now boogyman didn't exist in a vacuum either, nor was it hidden, our forebears actively encouraged it en masse. That's why it's now a cartoon boogyman, just as the "Brits" were before and still. To look at things with more open eyes holds up too much of a shabby mirror to ourselves for comfort.

osarusan

Wibbs wrote: »

To look at things with more open eyes holds up too much of a shabby mirror to ourselves for comfort.

Indeed. It's easy to criticise them, but they are a product of us.

And we allow them to survive and be replaced by similar them, by not holding them accountable.

Tazio

I like the idea of a beer cave.... I want one.

pumpkin4life

Wibbs wrote: »

For me the Catholic Church at its peak in Ireland was just another symptom of the seemingly inbuilt Irish need for authority and scrabble for same among a minority of power hungry gombeen gauleiters. The "Irish Rebel" image is a lot of my bollocks IMH. Outside of Ireland yes and thankfully a few pockets within, but generally this nation is a culture of forelock tuggers who prefer to be directed from on high. That "high" has worn different hats through the ages. The English wore it for a good while. They were barely gone from the place and the vacuum they left was rapidly filled by Vatican City. Now they're gone and we're still adrift slightly, though the EU fulfils that external authority with quite a few.

These Seanad muppets don't exist in a vacuum and their little monkey brains know it enough to milk it. Neither do the parish pump politics that repeatedly vomit forth ever more gobshítes come election. They're elected in FFS. The Catholic Church, that previous master and now boogyman didn't exist in a vacuum either, nor was it hidden, our forebears actively encouraged it en masse. That's why it's now a cartoon boogyman, just as the "Brits" were before and still. To look at things with more open eyes holds up too much of a shabby mirror to ourselves for comfort.

Bingo. There's a reason we did so well in the police jobs in America for example: jobs which require a submission to a higher authority, what is being said there goes; being told what to do without using your damn head and everything is all rosy.

It's also why Irish people have a natural predilection towards liberal and socialist policies/issues.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

Wibbs wrote: »

For me the Catholic Church at its peak in Ireland was just another symptom of the seemingly inbuilt Irish need for authority and scrabble for same among a minority of power hungry gombeen gauleiters. The "Irish Rebel" image is a lot of my bollocks IMH. Outside of Ireland yes and thankfully a few pockets within, but generally this nation is a culture of forelock tuggers who prefer to be directed from on high. That "high" has worn different hats through the ages. The English wore it for a good while. They were barely gone from the place and the vacuum they left was rapidly filled by Vatican City. Now they're gone and we're still adrift slightly, though the EU fulfils that external authority with quite a few.

These Seanad muppets don't exist in a vacuum and their little monkey brains know it enough to milk it. Neither do the parish pump politics that repeatedly vomit forth ever more gobshítes come election. They're elected in FFS. The Catholic Church, that previous master and now boogyman didn't exist in a vacuum either, nor was it hidden, our forebears actively encouraged it en masse. That's why it's now a cartoon boogyman, just as the "Brits" were before and still. To look at things with more open eyes holds up too much of a shabby mirror to ourselves for comfort.

Interesting points.
Stop me if this goes too far off base. From the famine up until independence maybe we just lost too many people, too much money and too much power for it not to be filled by something (the Catholic Church)? The country needed a compass at the head of society as it had been so damaged and demoralised for so long up to that point.

I know 'millennial' is partly an American buzzword/marketing slogan, but I am prepared to use it in the context of applying it to the first people who grew up in the digital age of mass communication and connection. Maybe millennials are less willing to need an outside compass to help guide them in decision making? Having all the worlds information at the end of your fingertips may well churn out people who are less inclined to deference and more likely to trust in their own ability to reach a correct answer about something. It is yet to play out fully as most TD's and the electorate are born outside of the era but it will be interesting to see what, if any difference it will make overall.

The last Magdalene Laundry was closed 20 years ago today for what its worth. I don't think we'll ever be going back down that road anyway.

pumpkin4life

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

Interesting points.
Stop me if this goes too far off base. From the famine up until independence maybe we just lost too many people, too much money and too much power for it not to be filled by something (the Catholic Church)? The country needed a compass at the head of society as it had been so damaged and demoralised for so long up to that point.

I know 'millennial' is partly an American buzzword/marketing slogan, but I am prepared to use it in the context of applying it to the first people who grew up in the digital age of mass communication and connection. Maybe millennials are less willing to need an outside compass to help guide them in decision making? Having all the worlds information at the end of your fingertips may well churn out people who are less inclined to deference and more likely to trust in their own ability to reach a correct answer about something. It is yet to play out fully as most TD's and the electorate are born outside of the era but it will be interesting to see what, if any difference it will make overall.

The last Magdalene Laundry was closed 20 years ago today for what its worth. I don't think we'll ever be going back down that road anyway.

I think there's two things going on here.

The first is that there's less of an outside, concrete compass for Millennials anyway. This is because society, for myriad reasons has become more fractured, atomised, so there's less to cling onto in terms of direction. Religion, family, friends, nationalism, patriotism etc. Fùck it out the window like. Everything is relative. YOLO and all that shìte.

What happens then is because, this is a natural human drive, this need for a compass, you start looking for something to fit this need. Whether it is the lad who is into sports/table top gaming/whatever far too much for his own good, or whether it is the latest hipster, feel goodie cause, you'll find that these people tend to have far more militant views on these topics.

Say yous are against abortion, you're not just disagreeing with someone, you're attacking their identity, their compass, their ego.

CdeC

Could have this one following you around the shop if you do decide to grab a bottle or two.

HensVassal

FTA69 wrote: »

The only place I've seen this happen is in North Africa. Since when did we want to copy Morocco's social traditions?

If someone wants to buy a few cans they shouldn't have to be skulking around some gaff partitioned off like a sex shop.

When I went to the supermarket there (Marjane) the booze was on full display for all to see.

HensVassal

Arcade_Tryer wrote: »

It's pretty obvious the intention is to deter impulse buying of alcohol e.g. a person doing the shopping and suddenly seeing a bottle of wine beside some groceries and throwing it in the trolley. Simple really. Sounds good in theory. Not sure if the evidence supports it though. Are you?

What exactly is the reasoning behind wanting to deter impulse buying of alcohol?

In my observation it is the impulse buyers of alcohol who drink the least, i.e. they're not in the shop specifically to buy alcohol and might stick that bottle of Shiraz in the cupboard where it will be discovered months later at Christmas and popped open.

jameorahiely

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Welcome to the RC Church hangover from the RC church for those not in the RC Church. We know better than you little people. Don't worry about us Drinking expensive booze and drinking large amounts … You are just not allowed to.

:pac:

The roman catholic church doesn't foebid alcohol.
Blame the Methodists or the muslims if you need to pin it on a religion, you mightn't get as many cool points, but at least it"d be accurate

Wibbs

pumpkin4life wrote: »

It's also why Irish people have a natural predilection towards liberal and socialist policies/issues.

Actually P my contention would be that Irish people are more likely to be centrists on damn near everything. That's very much reflected in our politics as a general rule. TBH I see this as a Good Thing(™). Unlike say the Latins who can go full on hardline en masse one way or t'other, the Irish have tended to be like our weather we don't run too hot or too cold either way.

jimgoose

Makes a lot of sense. If someone wanders into, say, an off-license or a Centra all wet and panting and can't see any booze, they'll likely as not forget all about it and wander off looking for a lamp-post to piss against. Oh wait, that's dogs... ahh shaggit!! :pac:

jester77

lol, what a funny country. I can just picture people trying to manoeuvre their trolley through narrow hidden doors as they try to locate the bottle of wine they need for cooking while doing their shopping.

Reminds me of the old days when the video stores has the adult content hidden out the back of the store.

pumpkin4life

Wibbs wrote: »

Actually P my contention would be that Irish people are more likely to be centrists on damn near everything. That's very much reflected in our politics as a general rule. TBH I see this as a Good Thing(™). Unlike say the Latins who can go full on hardline en masse one way or t'other, the Irish have tended to be like our weather we don't run too hot or too cold either way.

Defo, but with one bit on to that:

I remember watching one of those Reeling in the Years episode things where they had a clip of the old dance halls. I remember it cause they had a clip of some one at the thing going "the church should do something about this".

Thought it was gas out cause all you have to do these days is replace "the church should do xyz.." with "the government should do xyz". Replacing one with the other. That faith in this big system of imposed downward rules and regulation, religion or government, always struck me as on the side of leftism.

Which is something Irish people go naturally for. Every newsbite solution in Irish media is about the government and what they can do, rather than you, the individual can do. Sugar tax, drinking tax, all of that. Gay marriage would be an example. Very left leaning thing (I'm not saying its bad, just to add, but it can be), which we happily voted in.

Something like Libertarian-ism will never ever be an Irish thing tbh. And I'm not one of them "muh freedom" lads by any stretch.

goose2005

Arcade_Tryer wrote: »

Structural separation sounds like a good idea in theory tbh.

They're already required to keep alcohol in a corner of the shop or behind the counter (in France you have naggins of rum hanging at the counter where we would have chewing gum)

HensVassal wrote: »

What exactly is the reasoning behind wanting to deter impulse buying of alcohol?

In my observation it is the impulse buyers of alcohol who drink the least, i.e. they're not in the shop specifically to buy alcohol and might stick that bottle of Shiraz in the cupboard where it will be discovered months later at Christmas and popped open.

Exactly. Alcoholics are not impulse buyers, everything is planned long in advance.

jimgoose

goose2005 wrote: »

...Exactly. Alcoholics are not impulse buyers, everything is planned long in advance.

Your classic impulse-buyer of alcohol is the perfectly normal, harmless ratepayer who decides a bottle of something convivial would be nice with his and Woman's Friday night takeaway, only to discover after grabbing the car-keys and bounding towards the door, that it's 10:03... :pac:

Wibbs

pumpkin4life wrote: »

That faith in this big system of imposed downward rules and regulation, religion or government, always struck me as on the side of leftism.

That's more the libertarian black and white notion of government baaaad, market forces gooood. There exist examples, quite the few, of extremely right wing top down imposed societies. I'd reckon that there are/were more totalitarian states on the right side of things?