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Marriage is not his thing

  • 26-10-2016 5:10am
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6


    Hi Guys
    Maybe a little long but will try be brief!
    Looking for strangers perspective on my long term relationship/future
    I am in love with my boyfriend of 8 years. He is my best friend and I can't imagine my life without him.. however (here we go)

    He will not commit to marriage and it makes me so sad.

    He has always been upfront when we discussed it in the past (3/4 times I think) about his 'no marriage wanted' attitude. I suppose I always thought he would change his mind. I only have myself to blame for letting relationship develop for 8 years knowing he was against the 'M' word.

    I reckon we have spoken about this about 3 times in 8 years (the recent being last Sunday. I will get to that conversation in a sec)

    To explain the main reasons I want to get married are: Committing to be with each other for a lifetime, a romantic gesture, celebrating with friends and family and sharing a surname if/when we have kids (I want too, he has said he does too - this took about 6 years to confirm! )

    His reasons for not wanting to get married are vague to say the least. He says he doesn't know if we will get married. He is unsure. He does not believe in religion hence does not want to get married. I have said I don't care about religion, we can do it as a civil partnership and avoid the church/priest craic but he believes marriage and religion are linked (I suspect this is his excuse)
    He has said he does not want to get married and marriage is 'not his thing'. I have asked him to elaborate on why and he can't/won't. I have asked is there something he is worried about? Ceremony, speech or whatever and he has said no.

    If I'm honest I don't think there is much more to it other than he just does not want too.

    Again I've known this since 2010 and I refused to accept he would not change his mind. I believed he wouldn't loose me over it. At the same time I am a little hurt as he knows it's important to me and he has been ignoring the elephant in the room for so long. He has never given me a straight answer, its always been 'I'm not sure', 'we'll see', 'maybe'..

    I have turned 30 this year and want to try lock in some loose time frames for the future. I have been putting off the 'M' conversation for last the year as I was afraid of what his response will be.
    So last Sunday morning I told him straight I want to get married, I always have and sick of pretending its not a big deal. I need to know how he is feeling. Will we ever get married? His response was : 'I'm not sure' and generally the same responses as the previous times, he is not religious, marriage is not for him and he doesn't want to get married.

    I cried and told him I know all that and it's my fault. I asked him to think about it and let me know. It's now Wednesday and we have not discussed it since and pretending like it never happened.

    If he does not mention it by this Sunday I will have to ask him to talk about it - this is where I need the perspective of strangers who don't know us.

    If he says No I have feel I have 2 options

    1. Break up and move on
    2. Continue in our great relationship and take the marriage cards of the table

    If I choose 1 ;Will I always regret leaving him over a piece of paper at the end of the day?
    If I choose 2 ; Will I grow to resent him for it? Will I be truly happy accepting no marriage?

    If he says Yes

    1. He'll be doing it to please me I think, I don't think his heart will be in it and this will cause stress on wedding plans and more importantly on our future.
    I do not want him to 'agree' to marry me - I need him to want it (in my heart I know the answer to this)

    I do not want to be with someone who does not want to be with me.
    I feel I'm screwed both ways - I am f**ked if it's a yes AND really f**ked if it's a no.


    I am seeking advice, help, opinions, similar stories, perspective and everything else in between to help me out in our next conversation due Sunday.
    I have tried to be as honest as possible in this post- if I can clarify/elaborate on anything please just shout.


    Really appreciate any help I can get to making this huge decision.


«13

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭racso1975



    Again I've known this since 2010 and I refused to accept he would not change his mind. I believed he wouldn't loose me over it. At the same time I am a little hurt as he knows it's important to me and he has been ignoring the elephant in the room for so long.

    This is all you. He has been perfectly clear about his view point for 6 years. This is not a case where he led you to believe one thing and when push came to shove he had a different view point.

    You thought if he loved you he'd change HIS stance and belief to keep you happy. I personally think that is exceptionally childish.
    If he says No I have feel I have 2 options

    1. Break up and move on
    2. Continue in our great relationship and take the marriage cards of the table

    If I choose 1 ;Will I always regret leaving him over a piece of paper at the end of the day?
    If I choose 2 ; Will I grow to resent him for it? Will I be truly happy accepting no marriage?

    The Marriage cards were never really on the table though. Being blunt here you took a gamble. You invested a lot of time and effort into this relationship in the hope that you could change this persons view point. It looks like it;s not going to pay off.

    However you have said that you have a fantastic relationship and trust me they are not always easy to get. Just look at all the posts in here.

    For me you need to decide if this is a deal breaker. The lads has been clear with you from day one. So do you end and try to find somebody else you love as much and loves you as much so you can get married?
    To explain the main reasons I want to get married are: Committing to be with each other for a lifetime, a romantic gesture, celebrating with friends and family and sharing a surname if/when we have kids (I want too, he has said he does too - this took about 6 years to confirm! )

    Getting married may be a commitment but they don't always last a lifetime. You can still be committed to each other for a lifetime without being married. The children can use his name. Marriage is so much more then a romantic gesture and celebrating with friends. You can celebrate your relationship with friends every single year if you so choose

    I'm sure at 30 you have friends getting engaged and married and that is tough on you. If it is genuine opinions you are looking for you have a great relationship, you love the guy and he loves you. Respect his wishes that he has always made clear to you and find a way to make it work.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    I wouldn't get too stressed about the not wanting marriage thing. What would bother me a lot lot more is the lack of communication.
    Ye've only discussed marriage/the future of the relationship 3 times in 8 years? & the only reason he can give you is that it's "not his thing", then shuts down?
    How is your relationship otherwise?
    With the kids thing, did you bring up the issue 2 years ago or did he? What sort of timeline or decision was decided on,& did he agree to this or did he suggest it himself?
    A wedding won't make your relationship bulletproof. What will, is open honest conversations. You know what you want. Let him talk about what he wants& how exactly he sees that manifesting itself


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,193 ✭✭✭Wompa1


    I pity your boyfriend for the fact he has made it clear that he doesn't want to and it's 6 years later and you are getting so worked up about it that you cry.

    You can get all of what you've listed without marriage including changing your name, if you like. If you live with him long enough you also become cohabiting and have similar rights to a married couple who are living together.

    Why not just tell him you want to have a big party to celebrate when you guys have been together for 10 years? If that's what you feel you have been missing out on...you can get it that way.

    Why not look at it from a different angle. What do you gain by not having a wedding? You can save toward a house, if you want to own a house some day. You could save and go travel the world together, if you so choose. You could save towards starting a family...a wedding is a useless money pit. You pay out the @$$ for a party where you spend the entire night going from table to table making small talk and everybody else gets to enjoy themselves while you pay for it. It's absurd.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 193 ✭✭rahmalec


    There are a whole bunch of practical reasons to get married that, if he does want to stay with you and if potentially starting a family is something you both want. Maybe you could approach him from that angle?

    Now I'm not sure about the specifics, ye would have to do your own research, but marriage could give you extra rights as a family (wasnt that one of the big things from the referendum last year?), you can save tax, avail of certain benefits, inheritance issues, can gift each other unlimited money, etc, etc, etc.

    It's definitely not all about religion (and doesn't have to include it at all). Whether he still thinks it is or isn't doesn't matter. It is what it is.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,217 ✭✭✭pookie82


    OP you state at the start of your post that he has always been of the firm opinion that marriage is a no-no.
    But later, you say "He has never given me a straight answer, its always been 'I'm not sure', 'we'll see', 'maybe'.. "

    If it's the latter, and this is the first time a flat out "no" has come about (was it even a flat out "no", or more of this "I'm still not sure"?), I can see why you might have hung on. Sounds to me like he's being a little manipulative with these ambiguous answers that keep you hoping in vain (and therefore hang on to the status quo). You seem to have an otherwise good relationship, these are hard to find and harder to leave. You'll get a lot of "what's the issue, you knew early on, this is your own fault" comments here but it seems you acknowledge that already, so there's no point beating it down your throat.

    From my own circle of friends I can see many relationships which started out (some young, to be fair) with a lot of ambivalence towards marriage or settling down on the man's side, until it was conversed at length and the years went by and they matured a little and saw it as a desirable and natural thing to want to commit to. So if your boyfriend had seemed "on the fence" up until now, I wouldn't blame you for hoping that would change.

    You say he wants kids ... are you sure of this? Because if so, does he realise he'll have no legal right over those kids without essentially marrying you? Unless he wants to go to the trouble of pursuing guardianship through the courts after each one is born. That's something he needs to consider.

    I don't think the relationship can survive him saying a "no", to be honest, and I think you know this too. That's why you're posting here. It's perfectly ok for you to want that commitment, that nice day, that celebration, and that security of union for the rest of your life. Don't let other people tell you that that desire is worthless, pathetic, or materialistic. If it was such a crock, people would simply have stopped doing it a long time ago. For many people, it's a day and a commitment they have always dreamed of and look forward to. I think you will deeply resent him if you accept that you'll never get that from him, and stay. You're also 30+ now and, as much as I hate to say this, for a woman who wants "the works" in terms of marriage and kids (which isn't something to be ashamed of), the clock is running on this.

    May I ask if he's aware that this could be a deal breaker? He's happy to lose you by not committing? It's quite possible he thinks you'll accept whatever he says and stay anyways.

    Maybe it's time to make a painful cut to the strings here and go and find what you're really looking for, 100% of it. Good luck.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    I think his reasons for not getting married are nonsense and they are in fact just excuses. His real reasons we can only guess at, but the part that matters to you is that the problem is not that he doesn't want to get married, but rather that he doesn't want to get married to you.
    If your feelings and your future together mattered enough to him, he would be having a more honest conversation about it at the very least, with a view to finding a way forward that suited both of you. If you want to do something, you'll find a way, if you don't want to do it you'll find an excuse.

    You already know that though and you know your gamble hasn't paid off (I think posters are being unnecessarily harsh on you about that, we all start relationships with hopes instead of certainty and he wasn't as honest as people are saying, he kept dangling the possibility it might change by saying he didn't know), so now I think it's time for you to go. If he wants you as much as would be right for a life-long relationship, he'll come after you. If he doesn't come after you, then he was never committed and you need to go and find someone who will be.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,579 ✭✭✭Mr McBoatface


    Just point out to him some practical facts:

    If you are living together for 5 years or longer in the event of a separation or end of your relationship you will be considered his common law wife and you would be due the same considerations as a married women in court for maintenance and splitting of assets.

    If you'd happen to have children he has much more protection compared to an unmarried father.

    The tax benefits, you can transfer tax credits if married. Can be very useful if you decide to take up a part time job or not work after becoming a mother.

    While the tax man may not treat you as married the social welfare will treat you as a couple regardless, except in the case of widow/ers pension which requires you to be married. That particular payment I'm in receipt of and it makes the world of difference for myself and my children. It's not something my late wife and I ever consider before getting married but it is a massive benefit of marriage if something tragic happens.

    There are other reasons too, practical reasons that the it's only a piece of paper crowd don't think about. I was one of them myself but marriage as an institution awarded me and my children so much more protection than if I was not married.

    Your partner and his potential kids have more to gain by being married to you than not. The wedding, the party afterwards is just a distraction really but if a former anti-marriage man like me can really enjoy it I'm sure others can too.

    All that said I wouldn't get married again it's just not for me :-)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,854 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    OP if you get around to deciding to have kids he might change his mind then so maybe not stress it. does he have a normal extended "irish" family? , I had one friend and he didn't want a wedding in Ireland because there were a few civil wars going on so they ended up doing the whole shebang in the Carribean, far enough away to put everyone off going :-)

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,778 ✭✭✭✭fits


    Marriage and weddings are too easily confused. Marriage is the best and easist way to declare to the public and the government that you want to be treated as a family unit and bestows all sorts of legal rights upon you.

    I dont know why some people get so hung up about it!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,324 ✭✭✭JustAThought


    6-8 years - so you've been dating him your entire adult life. IMO he sounds like HE is keeping his options open.

    I understand absolutely that he dosen't want the big cash extravaganza or to be guilted by you & your tears into doing a sideline ceremony that will probably end up the same way.

    Tbh you are not really being fair or listening to him. He has told you for ) years he is not going to marry you. What is unambigious about that?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,337 ✭✭✭Bandana boy


    I am 13 years with my partner , we have never married and both never intended to . the Gay marriage referendum brought up some serious issues we had never really thought through, in particular around inheritance and we are now considering a civil partner ship.

    I would advise getting the literature from the referendum it has some very logical thinking on the subject which might make him reconsider.

    Re your point of wanting him to want to get married , If that has not happened in the first 8 years then it is just not going to happen and if that is a serious requirement you should end it and move on .


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 601 ✭✭✭Magicmatilda


    Marriage will give you:
    Extra inheritance options (if you won a property together or if either of you have assets and one dies, the threshold for tax free inheritance is higher, may even be unlimited, check it)

    Tax credits - you can share your tax credits, very lucrative especially if kids are involved

    Him - more rights as a father. If you have kids unmarried and you die, he does not automatically get the kids, your parents do.

    The biggie (for me) next of kin. So if you or he is lying in a hospital bed and decisions have to me made, currently either your parents or his parents make them.

    Marriage is not just a piece of paper, it is a legal contract that gives certain rights to each spouse and should be considered as such. Particularly given that it is not easy to get out of. That is why it is such a big commitment.

    I would not stay in a long term relationship with someone without marriage being the endgame not for any romantic reason but for the above reasons.

    Honestly I suspect that your partner has been coasting along for 8 years. If you want marriage and you do, then you should leave and find someone who is willing to commit to you.

    I get that he might not want a big wedding and that is grand, a small civil ceremony is all that is required. At the most basic you two, two witnesses and €150.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭racso1975


    6-8 years - so you've been dating him your entire adult life. IMO he sounds like HE is keeping his options open.

    I understand absolutely that he dosen't want the big cash extravaganza or to be guilted by you & your tears into doing a sideline ceremony that will probably end up the same way.

    Tbh you are not really being fair or listening to him. He has told you for ) years he is not going to marry you. What is unambigious about that?

    You do realise there is a HUGE contradiction in those 2 statements????


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,217 ✭✭✭pookie82



    Tbh you are not really being fair or listening to him. He has told you for ) years he is not going to marry you. What is unambigious about that?

    If you read the OP's wording of his actual answers, they seem to be more "I dunno, let's see", "maybe", "not sure" etc.

    Had he actually sat her down, looked her in the eye and said "I'm so sorry, it's something I will never entertain or dream of, I do not ever want to be your husband" I don't think she'd have much cause to write here at all.

    It's him who's being unfair if you ask me, and I think a lot of unwilling participants in these types of conversations give a lazy "I don't know" response hoping it'll buy them a few more months before the next one.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    pookie82 wrote: »
    If you read the OP's wording of his actual answers, they seem to be more "I dunno, let's see", "maybe", "not sure" etc.

    Had he actually sat her down, looked her in the eye and said "I'm so sorry, it's something I will never entertain or dream of, I do not ever want to be your husband" I don't think she'd have much cause to write here at all.

    It's him who's being unfair if you ask me, and I think a lot of unwilling participants in these types of conversations give a lazy "I don't know" response hoping it'll buy them a few more months before the next one.

    Also from the OP's post "He has always been upfront when we discussed it in the past (3/4 times I think) about his 'no marriage wanted' attitude."

    The OP needs to be clear when she says he has always been up front then claims he's answers have always been vague, it can't be both.

    I would be like the BF, I've no interest in marriage but am lucky in that my OH doesn't either. I've friends who are together 25+ years with three kids who aren't married. People refer to them as husband and wife as they just assume but they aren't actually married. There are legal reasons that can make it worth getting married for but it's up to each couple to see what works for them. I don't subscribe to the notion that it's not a committed relationship unless you've got married. That's for you to decide. I know my relationship is solid and committed and getting married would make no difference to that but every couple is different.

    OP is your OH against marriage or weddings? Sometimes people confuse the two. Is it important to you to stand in front of a bunch of friends and family as proof of your relationship or would you both be willing to just do a civil registration without any of the ceremony? At the end of the day your a couple so need to work together to find something that works for you. For the record my parents were married but never changed their names so my brother and I don't have the same surname as my mother - it's honestly not the big deal people make it out to be.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,843 ✭✭✭SarahMollie


    I have to say I've a certain amount of sympathy for the OP. People are saying that she should have known from the outset, but she was 22 when they got together - you don't have those serious conversations in relationships at that age, or at least I know I wouldnt want to be held to everything I said at that age. I know they've had the conversation again more recently, but its harder now that she's already invested many years into this relationship.

    OP, I don't think you're being unreasonable in asking him to better articulate why he's so against it. After 8 years, you should be able to communicate on something so important, as it shapes all your future plans.

    Personally I think marriage make sense for all the reasons outlined by previous posters, but one thing that struck me was the reasons you gave seemed largely about the wedding (celebrate with friends, romantic etc) rather than a marriage, and the two are different things. I think its perfectly legitimate not to want a big traditional wedding, but that isnt the same thing as not wanting a marriage. Maybe you should ask him if its a wedding he's so against, or being legally tied together, or both?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,734 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    I am 13 years with my partner , we have never married and both never intended to . the Gay marriage referendum brought up some serious issues we had never really thought through, in particular around inheritance and we are now considering a civil partner ship.
    I know this is off-topic, but it's not possible to register a civil partnership any more.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,290 ✭✭✭orubiru



    Honestly I suspect that your partner has been coasting along for 8 years. If you want marriage and you do, then you should leave and find someone who is willing to commit to you.

    Do you honestly think that this is good advice?

    It seems like a massive gamble.

    The OP has been in a relationship for 8 years (since the age of 22) and considers this relationship to be a happy one.

    So first of all that relationship has to end. This will come with a significant amount of grief AND the reason for the break up will cast a shadow over all future relationships.

    IF the OP is even able to navigate finding someone, the first few dates, becoming committed, taking that commitment to the next level etc etc.

    Remember that the next guy needs to live up to the expectations of the current 8 year relationship and more. When do you bring up marriage with the new guy? First date? After a month? After a year?

    When the inevitable conversation about exes comes up will the OP say "well, I had a great relationship, no real problems, but I dumped the guy cos I want to get married"? I can't imagine that this will go well.

    There is no guarantee of being able to find "someone" and what would be the timeframe for all that? Meet someone new within a year of break up? Living together in 2 years? Married in 5 years?

    What if it doesn't work out? The next "someone" only lasts a year before a massive argument puts an end to it. The next "someone" lasts a month before he goes back to his ex. Then a six month spell of awful first dates with various "someones".

    What percentage of marriages end in divorce?

    For the OP, a decision like this is a gamble. You have to ask yourself...

    What do I currently have?
    What could I gain by throwing it away?
    What could I lose by throwing it away?
    Is it worth the risk?

    In my opinion the obsession with marriage is having a detrimental effect on this relationship and there are many reasons to assume that it would have a detrimental effect on future relationships with different guys.

    This obsession with marriage has put the OP in a position where the idea that the current guy can just be removed and replaced with "someone else" who just happens to want marriage is being put forward as a viable option. I would suggest that that will almost certainly not be as easy as all that.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,584 ✭✭✭Rekop dog


    If I was him and you put this up as a sort of ultimatum, 'marry you or you'll leave', I'd be the one walking first if you were willing to give up a perfectly strong relationship over this. So be fully aware of the potential consequences if that is your plan.

    If anything you're less secure and committed to this relationship if you feel the need to have signatures on a piece of paper to validate the relationship. The burden of explanation should not be on him either, it's akin to asking someone do they believe in God, the person who rejects it should not feel the need to explain.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 405 ✭✭mapaca


    I think you need to sit him down and have a very frank discussion about it all. It sounds like he's just given a few vague excuses and you haven't properly talked it all through. It's important you make the distinction between wanting a wedding and wanting a marriage. Use some of the points that people have made here about what the advantages/implications are, etc. Examine your own reasons for wanting to get married and give him a chance to explain his reasons why he doesn't (the religion excuse wouldn't wash with me, there's more to getting married than a religious ceremony, IMO). When all cards are on the table, then you can think about the future of your relationship and make decisions accordingly.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,490 ✭✭✭amtc


    For very practical reasons you need to consider. There is no such thing as common law. Should anything happen to either of you any property will be treated as if you are complete strangers and liable to massive tax.

    My best friend is married to a woman he has not even seen for five years and is not divorced. He has since met another woman and they have three children under three. As it stands his estranged wife gets everything should he die. He was in hospital two weeks ago with a suspected heart attack, so I' be been looking into the legalities. His partner isn't all that bothered about being married but in the cold light of day his assets going to someone she's never met kind of focused her!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭racso1975


    On the guardianship front. If the Father is living with the mother for 12 months from JAN 2016 he secures guardianship. Another option is get a certain form signed by a commissioner for oaths. Though this requires the agreement of the mother.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,854 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    amtc wrote: »
    For very practical reasons you need to consider. There is no such thing as common law. Should anything happen to either of you any property will be treated as if you are complete strangers and liable to massive tax.

    My best friend is married to a woman he has not even seen for five years and is not divorced. He has since met another woman and they have three children under three. As it stands his estranged wife gets everything should he die. He was in hospital two weeks ago with a suspected heart attack, so I' be been looking into the legalities. His partner isn't all that bothered about being married but in the cold light of day his assets going to someone she's never met kind of focused her!

    jaysus, you think the man here wouldn't want his assets going to an estranged wife and would be interested in leaving his assets to his kids even if he didn't want to directly leave them to the partner?

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,137 ✭✭✭Ninjini


    Hi OP.

    I can somewhat relate to your situation.
    My OH and I have been together for over 15 years, I have always wanted marriage, he has not.

    At the end of the day, I had the choice to accept that he didn't want marriage, but I still wanted to be with him.

    I don't envy the choice ahead of you, but as you said previously, would you be happy feeling like he only married to make you happy?

    I honestly wish you the best of luck and hope you find peace with your choice.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,022 ✭✭✭skallywag


    I've never had any interest in getting married myself either, though if my partner really wanted to then I guess I would go along with it. Just FYI, we've been together much longer than yourselves.
    ...To explain the main reasons I want to get married are: Committing to be with each other for a lifetime, a romantic gesture, celebrating with friends and family and sharing a surname if/when we have kids...

    In our case we managed to tick most of those boxes by having a child together.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,479 ✭✭✭Potatoeman


    He was clear from the start that he didn't want marriage but was open to having kids. So you turn thirty and start bringing up marriage again and cry when you don't get your way. Are you surprised he won't give you a straight answer? He already did but you won't accept it as it's not what you want. You should be asking him when he plans to have kids.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 807 ✭✭✭Jenneke87


    Hi Op,

    That's a difficult situation you are in, and I think it's a shame that so far, he hasn't really been able to give a clear answer as to why, other than some vague answers about it being religious(name me a ceremony that isn't). Could it be that he is afraid that perhaps one day the marriage won't hold and he'll lose whatever he has, will have to pay maintenance and a costly divorce? Is he worried that in the end it might not be worth it?
    Also, from your post, he seems to share the same reluctance about children. So finally after 6 years he has said it. Did he brought it up himself or after a lot of prodding from your side. I can't help but feeling that he''s not inclined to give you either....


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 385 ✭✭batmanrobin


    OP, when you discuss marriage with him is it vagueness and shutting down or is he reassuring you that he wants to grow old with you? Is he saying things like "while I don't want to get married, this is a personal issue and doesn't reflect how much I love and care about you. I want to grow old with you" etc etc.

    Re kids, do you want them? Does he? If yes, how many? How do you want to raise them? When do you want to start having them?

    You need to sit down and have a proper conversation about all of these things. Is he still happy in the relationship? Does he want to be with you or is he just with you because it's been 8 years and it's easier than starting over with someone new?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,166 ✭✭✭Tasden


    I find it really disappointing that people are refusing to believe the man just doesn't want to get married and think him saying "he just doesn't" is a weak excuse or means he is not interested in the op because he won't pinpoint a specific reason.
    I have no plans to get married. No specific reason for it. My only reason to ever actually want to is to have a wedding/party. I am aware of the legal side of things especially with regards to children etc. but I still wouldn't be in a rush to marry. If asked why I couldnt pin point a reason, it's like proving a negative- an absence of interest, no strong feelings.
    You could argue that he should then do it for op if he has no strong reasons against it but IMO that makes a mockery of something important to op- going through the motions just to appease her, not because he values marriage the same way.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,230 ✭✭✭Merkin


    What are your own reasons for wanting to get married OP?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,346 ✭✭✭✭homerjay2005



    To explain the main reasons I want to get married are: Committing to be with each other for a lifetime, a romantic gesture, celebrating with friends and family and sharing a surname if/when we have kids (I want too, he has said he does too - this took about 6 years to confirm! )

    i know 3 recent examples of people who were going out for 6-8 years and who broke up within a year of being married. the days of marraige = commitment are long gone.

    nothing guarantees commitment that you are looking for anymore. buying a house is a small step, having kids another, being together 8 years is a good sign.

    after that however, if its still not enough and your willing to give up a "great relationship" over "paper" as you said, then i think you need to have a word with yourself and stop leading this man on. he has been clear to you, but it looks like you have not been to him.

    i get the feeling keeping others happy and just going along with the normal accepted life of marraige,house,babies etc maybe more important to you than him.

    while marriage is important to you, i dont think it has the same significance that it had and as we move away from a rural based culture in Ireland to an Urban one, its going to become less important in time.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,292 ✭✭✭Galadriel


    Hi Guys

    I do not want to be with someone who does not want to be with me.

    But he is not saying he doesn't want to be with you? you said you have a great relationship.

    Is it more you don't want to be with him if you cannot be his wife?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 303 ✭✭Greenduck


    Potatoeman wrote: »
    He was clear from the start that he didn't want marriage but was open to having kids. So you turn thirty and start bringing up marriage again and cry when you don't get your way. Are you surprised he won't give you a straight answer? He already did but you won't accept it as it's not what you want. You should be asking him when he plans to have kids.

    Super harsh response. In fairness from the OPs post he has never categorically stated he did not want to get married. He's ambivalent which probably gave the Op some hope that he could change his mind over time. Anybody who is in love with someone wants to be optimistic about their future. I'm sure she wasn't thinking about marriage all that much in her 20's. The harsh reality is that in your 30's people get married and have kids. I think she is right to question it now.

    I was with a guy like that OP- said he never wanted to get married. Granted it wasn't the most secure relationship, however he called it day eventually and broke my heart. 1 year later he was married to a different person and they now have a child. I am not saying this is the same but just be careful that you are not investing all this time to someone 'who isn't sure'. It would set off alarm bells for me.

    Maybe he doesn't realise that this could be a deal breaker for you. Maybe you don't even know if this a deal breaker. This is something you need to figure out for yourself. I hope it works out for you!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 564 ✭✭✭Yellow pack crisps


    A lot of nonsense in this thread! He says he doesn't want to get married. Not that he doesn't want to be with you. You need to make the decision what's More important your relationship or a certified Union. After being with someone for eight years then you can hardly accuse him of messing you around or keeping his options open. This is the absolute fact you asked first if he wanted marriage and he said no and instead of taking him at his word you chose to ignore it and ask twice more and when the answer you want was not forthcoming you start to question your whole reasons for being with him. It's actually you messing him around.


  • Administrators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 14,914 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Big Bag of Chips


    I think you need to clarify to yourself what it is you want. Do you want a marriage, or a wedding, or both? Would you be happy to get married just the 2 of you, somewhere with 2 witnesses that you don't know and come back to everyone already married or would you prefer the big celebration with family and friends?

    It sounds like you have a great relationship, as you say, but you don't talk about the important things. A 30 year old woman is an entirely different person to a 22 year old woman. So what might not have been much of a priority 8 or even 3 or 4 years ago, can start pressing on you after a certain length of time. I don't think it's unusual that a 22 or even a 25 or 26 year old man would say he has no interest in getting married. He could be closer to 40 before he'd ever even consider it an option.

    The worrying thing here is the complete shutting down of any sort of serious conversation. At 30 you need to have an idea of where your life is going. If you're going to have children, when? How many children? Childcare arrangements? Both parents working or 1 staying at home? But a house or rent? Where? These are grown up topics that need to be discussed in an 8 year relationship and not just dismissed with "maybe, we'll see". If you as a couple are incapable of communicating these things with each other then I'm afraid your relationship is unlikely to go the distance anyway, regardless of marriage!

    Sometimes women get to that "time to be an adult now" phase before men do. Maybe it's down to the ol' biological clock thing! But, after 8 years together you should be able to be honest with each other, both about what you want and what you don't want. Fobbing off conversations at this stage is just childish and shows a lack of maturity. And you being afraid to bring up topics because of your partner's reaction is also a bit worrying! You're not exactly sure where you stand, because he seems a bit wishy washy about the whole thing. Of all the reasons to NOT get married, not being religious has to be the most ridiculous!! It's a legal contract. Nothing at all to do with religion.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,737 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    I would be like you OP; I want to get married. I Could have pushed the matter but I don't want to feel like I bullied someone into marrying me.

    I think there are two much more important things you need to talk to your bf about:
    Does he see himself spending the rest of his life with you?
    Does he want to have children?

    If the answer to the first one is yes then happy days. Decide for yourself if you can live without marriage. And see what alternatives are available for next of kin and inheritance rights.

    If he hums and haws and makes with the 'we'll see. Maybe some day' on the second THEN you have a problem. IMO any attempt to fob you off about that is a worrying sign because 'one day' never comes.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,166 ✭✭✭Tasden


    kylith wrote: »
    I would be like you OP; I want to get married. I Could have pushed the matter but I don't want to feel like I bullied someone into marrying me.

    I think there are two much more important things you need to talk to your bf about:
    Does he see himself spending the rest of his life with you?
    Does he want to have children?

    If the answer to the first one is yes then happy days. Decide for yourself if you can live without marriage. And see what alternatives are available for next of kin and inheritance rights.

    If he hums and haws and makes with the 'we'll see. Maybe some day' on the second THEN you have a problem. IMO any attempt to fob you off about that is a worrying sign because 'one day' never comes.

    I don't know. I'm reaching tick tock time for babies now and I would still be in the "I don't know, we'll see" category. Now granted I'm single so that adds to the uncertainty. But in previous relationships it wasnt "I don't know if I want your babies" it was that I didn't know if I wanted more children at all. And if my partner had pushed me for an answer I could not have given one despite my own ticking clock because it's a huge decision and sometimes you just don't know.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,737 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    Tasden wrote: »
    I don't know. I'm reaching tick tock time for babies now and I would still be in the "I don't know, we'll see" category. Now granted I'm single so that adds to the uncertainty. But in previous relationships it wasnt "I don't know if I want your babies" it was that I didn't know if I wanted more children at all. And if my partner had pushed me for an answer I could not have given one despite my own ticking clock because it's a huge decision and sometimes you just don't know.

    I don't have any kids at all, so while MORE children might be a 'maybe', children at all is a 'probably'. I'm single myself after a relationship deteriorated when I pushed him to make up his mind one way or the other on the issue.

    When it comes to things with time limits, like having children, for a woman, at some point you have to cut the hemming and hawing and make a decision.

    Of course, for me that's now 'do I do it by myself, write it off entirely, or hope against hope to meet someone on the same page before time runs out'.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,166 ✭✭✭Tasden


    kylith wrote: »
    I don't have any kids at all, so while MORE children might be a 'maybe', children at all is a 'probably'. I'm single myself after a relationship deteriorated when I pushed him to make up his mind one way or the other on the issue.

    When it comes to things with time limits, like having children, for a woman, at some point you have to cut the hemming and hawing and make a decision.

    Of course, for me that's now 'do I do it by myself, write it off entirely, or hope against hope to meet someone on the same page before time runs out'.

    Having my own children already doesn't make it any easier on a partner who wants his own with me. It's not more children for them, its their children they want, it's still me being indecisive and saying maybe to someone (hypothetical) who is asking about having kids, which would be what op is facing. I know plenty of people without any kids who are unsure and would be saying maybe. It's a huge decision and making it because another party is putting the pressure on is a mistake imo.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,479 ✭✭✭Potatoeman


    Greenduck wrote: »
    Super harsh response. In fairness from the OPs post he has never categorically stated he did not want to get married. He's ambivalent which probably gave the Op some hope that he could change his mind over time. Anybody who is in love with someone wants to be optimistic about their future. I'm sure she wasn't thinking about marriage all that much in her 20's. The harsh reality is that in your 30's people get married and have kids. I think she is right to question it now.

    I was with a guy like that OP- said he never wanted to get married. Granted it wasn't the most secure relationship, however he called it day eventually and broke my heart. 1 year later he was married to a different person and they now have a child. I am not saying this is the same but just be careful that you are not investing all this time to someone 'who isn't sure'. It would set off alarm bells for me.

    Maybe he doesn't realise that this could be a deal breaker for you. Maybe you don't even know if this a deal breaker. This is something you need to figure out for yourself. I hope it works out for you!

    It's not ment to be harsh but realistic. Read the start of the post, he clearly said he didn't want marriage. You can't turnaround and expect someone to change on something they were clear on from the begining. It shows that you consider your needs more important than theirs.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    Tasden wrote: »
    Having my own children already doesn't make it any easier on a partner who wants his own with me. It's not more children for them, its their children they want, it's still me being indecisive and saying maybe to someone (hypothetical) who is asking about having kids, which would be what op is facing. I know plenty of people without any kids who are unsure and would be saying maybe. It's a huge decision and making it because another party is putting the pressure on is a mistake imo.
    Your situation is different. Your partner can walk away in his forties or later and have kids. Women mostly don't have that option.

    I don't fancy a wedding at all. Getting married on the quiet would be probably even more hassle in my case. I know we will have to do it because of the ridiculous laws but for me it will be a shot gun wedding (state holding the gun) not something I am looking forward. That being said I am perfectly happy with my partner, we have two little gangsters and a mortgage.

    There is a difference between not wanting to get married because you are just coasting along until something better shows up and not getting married because you feel it's unnecessary hassle. You deserve clarity on his plans for future and do they include you. After 8 years you deserve that.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,843 ✭✭✭SarahMollie


    Potatoeman wrote: »
    It's not ment to be harsh but realistic. Read the start of the post, he clearly said he didn't want marriage. You can't turnaround and expect someone to change on something they were clear on from the begining. It shows that you consider your needs more important than theirs.

    I really think your post is neglecting the ages of those involved at the time. Lets assume this guy is in and around the same age as the OP, so at 22ish, theres nothing unusual about saying that marriage isnt on your radar. That doesnt mean thats going to be the case forever.

    No one is saying that the OP's BF should change to suit her, merely that if this is a dealbreaker that its a very sad and unfortunate situation.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    OP, what strikes me as odd is that he seems a bit "meh, whatever" with the whole thing. It's not like he actually has a strong ideology that gets in the way of getting married.
    As you said, if it is religion, don't go for a religious marriage etc.

    During my 20's and beginning of my 30's, myself and my ex had a strong ideology against marriage. (youthful hippie naivety). We thought that being together without being married was a bigger proof of love, because we chose to be with that person again and again everyday, and not stay for just a piece of paper. We had tons of other strong convictions like that.

    Until we came to a bumpy road (job stress, which affected the quality of the relationship) and none of us had the patience/commitment to put extra work in the relationship and fix it, or patience to emotionally support the other. Instead we walked different paths and eventually met new partners. We were selfish and clearly not fully invested in "us" as a couple.

    If your plan is to settle down, buy a house, have kids, perhaps give up on your work and income for a while to raise the kids, maybe support his career, maybe relocate for a better job offer for him, ie, anything that involves financial and emotional sacrifices - all that is like being in a partnership.
    It has nothing to do with love. Love will not guarantee that this person will feel obliged, or even inclined, to acknowledge your efforts.

    I slowly learned this lesson. People say and act one moment as if our relationships are forever and love is unconditional, but few are actually loyal to those words. Often those that don't want to go through the trouble of legally committing to their spouse are the ones who think - even if subconsciously - that relationships are disposable. And/or the ones who could not be arsed to try harder if you hit some difficulty or a period of stress (which everyone does sooner or later does - losing a job, a death/illness in the family, having a baby etc).

    My advice: see this as a legal partnership, not with romantic eyes. Think of marriage as if you were about to start a joint company with someone. Because as others said, if things come to worse, you will be financially protected by law. And if he was willing to go through the hassle and huge commitment of getting married, chances are he believes his relationship is worth his investment no matter what.

    I liked this suggestion below:

    "Marriage is not just a piece of paper, it is a legal contract that gives certain rights to each spouse and should be considered as such. Particularly given that it is not easy to get out of. That is why it is such a big commitment"

    You chose this person to be the one who hopefully would be by your side in many different moments of your life - and life can be a b*tch sometimes.
    Some of those moments may not be fun.

    Will he say "putting up with your stress because you lost your job is not my thing" or "having to give up the nights out with the lads to help to care for you/kids/sick relative is not my thing"?

    Probably.

    Just my two cents...
    Wishing you all the best.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,166 ✭✭✭Tasden


    meeeeh wrote: »
    Your situation is different. Your partner can walk away in his forties or later and have kids. Women mostly don't have that option.

    I'm aware of that. I don't have a partner btw. But I was explaining how just because i need to make a decision soon I still don't know. My (hypothetical) partner can walk away and have babies into his 50s but i could equally decide in a couple years im now ready and it could be too late. OPs partner could be the same- he knows time is ticking for op but at the end of the day if he doesn't know he doesnt know.. It doesn't mean anyone is messing anyone around or not committed to the possibility of kids. I just know that I genuinely do not know myself right now in my own situation and ops partner may feel the same and just because a clock is ticking (including my own) that decision isnt any easier to make.
    That's the only reason I brought up my own stance, that it is possible and probable for someone to just not know what they want right now despite knowing a decision does need to be made in the near future. It is up to op whether she wants to stick around to find out or not but him not making up his mind regarding children does not necessarily mean he is avoiding it or not going to want kids in the future, it may quite simply be he does not know at this point. That is the only reason I used my own example, not comparing the situations, but to show that sometimes someone just does not know and I don't think his answer on whether he wants children should be viewed as some sort of marker of commitment to the relationship is all.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,479 ✭✭✭Potatoeman


    I really think your post is neglecting the ages of those involved at the time. Lets assume this guy is in and around the same age as the OP, so at 22ish, theres nothing unusual about saying that marriage isnt on your radar. That doesnt mean thats going to be the case forever.

    No one is saying that the OP's BF should change to suit her, merely that if this is a dealbreaker that its a very sad and unfortunate situation.

    He has always been upfront when we discussed it in the past (3/4 times I think) about his 'no marriage wanted' attitude. I suppose I always thought he would change his mind. I only have myself to blame for letting relationship develop for 8 years knowing he was against the 'M' word.

    I reckon we have spoken about this about 3 times in 8 years (the recent being last Sunday. I will get to that conversation in a sec)

    To explain the main reasons I want to get married are: Committing to be with each other for a lifetime, a romantic gesture, celebrating with friends and family and sharing a surname if/when we have kids (I want too, he has said he does too - this took about 6 years to confirm! )

    I read this as: kids yes, marriage no.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 307 ✭✭DukeOfTheSharp


    I'm with the people who point out the contradictions in the OP's narrative: she states her OH was clearly against marriage the 3-4 times they talked about it, but then said he gave non-committal answers later...this makes no sense whatsoever...unless, and I'm just putting this out there, the 'no-marriage' line was met with crying, which then resulted in the OH doing what any person might do; move to a non-committal stance to calm the situation. It's akin to emotional blackmail really, totally unfair when dealing with a very straightforward situation.

    OP, the lad doesn't want to get married, and given your mentality, I empathise with him. You want the pageantry of marriage and the feeling of commitment, and when you continually don't get your way - as is the case when you refuse to take no for an answer - you get upset and seem shocked at the idea that you and you alone couldn't change his perspective! This is madness. Do the both of you a favour and stop wasting his time and your own. End things now, save the two of you a lot of hassle and resentment down the road (because if he doesn't end up resenting you, you'll sure as hell resent him) and allow you both to find people who'll actually agree with your perspectives.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6 stripeyredcup


    Hi Everyone,
    OP here
    Many thanks for every single reply. I really appreciate all your time - I am overwhelmed with 4 pages worth!
    Alot to think about here. Some eye opening posts and some upsetting ones.
    If I am honest I think some posts were a little harsh - but I think I was not clear in my OP - my head is all over the place.
    This was the reoccurring point that has stuck out : "OP, the lad doesn't want to get married, and given your mentality, I empathise with him"
    I feel I have been portrayed as an immature, childish, delusional female with low self esteem/confidence and trying to force/bully him in to marriage. This is not the case.

    I see it as I'm in a relationship for 8 years and I have no idea were we are going. I'm confused and need help.

    To clarify a few things:
    I am now 30 and boyfriend is 34 - I met him at 22 - we had a brief conversation on marriage at 24 and he said 'he wasn't sure about it', 'not religious', 'maybe'.. I was 24.. I didn't really care.
    Skip to 28 and it was brought up again and the responses again the same 'unsure', 'don't know' 'marriage not for him'.
    Now at 30 I'm very unsure on our future and I need to know where we stand - I need Yes or No so I can make a decision.
    He has NEVER said 'I will not marry you' hence the reason I created this post.
    I apologise if that was not clear in the OP but its the truth. I've got the responses 'marriage is not my thing' - WTF does that mean? and 'Maybe' which gives me hope.
    Our problem is communication and how he shuts down when I discuss anything 'serious' - We need to work on this if we have any chance.

    Thanks for reading


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,490 ✭✭✭amtc


    God I feel so sorry for you. Communication is definitely the issue. It sounds like ultimatum time. Use the legal argument as rationale. Marriage is different to weddings... my friend married in her lunchtime and went back to work!

    By the way a work colleague has a view that every man marries at 34, when we did the maths in our office she was right!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 452 ✭✭WhoWhatWhere


    Being quite frank, if you and your boyfriend break up because of what's in essence a piece of paper you're a bit mad in the head. I'm sure this was said to death but I'm not reading the rest of the thread, I just must say, you'll wholly regret yourself if you sacrifice your relationship over such a trivial matter. Marriage doesn't make your relationship magically stronger, a strong relationship is built on severeal key principals and marriage is not one I assure you.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,490 ✭✭✭amtc


    Years ago I worked with a girl who's boyfriend was of the same mind. His answer was only a piece of paper. I'd forgotten about this, by the way, just I got a message from a mutual friend a second ago and triggered memory.

    Anyway at the time mutual friend said to girl if only piece of paper why not do it to make you happy? Took some thinking about but agree.

    I was at my very good friend's wedding last year. Her husband would be the least into the whole thing....I booked the stuff with the bride...in fact venue assumed we were same sex. Anyway presented to him as fait acccompli he was delighted and beamed through the day. Admittedly not the way I would do it....but they're happy!


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