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Project Players

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24

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  • Options
    #32
    Zzippy
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 14,166 Mod ✭✭✭✭Zzippy


    Option 4, but with a longer qualification period (e.g., 5 years)
    Fitzgerald:
    You've come all the way up through the internationals, through the system, and then all of a sudden some guy comes in and is perceived to be better because he's from a different place, and it's, 'Let get this guy in'. I think it's really disappointing

    Eh no, Luke, Payne was perceived to be better because he is, not because he's from NZ.


  • Options
    #33
    kingofthekong
    Registered Users Posts: 1,248 ✭✭✭kingofthekong


    Winters wrote: »
    Interestingly Argentina have only one Super Rugby team and no project players. The rule is there for them but they choose not to "use" it the way Irish Rugby is. Admirable to say the least.

    Is AJ McGinty Ireland's only "Project Player" export?
    Canada an USA have started recruiting younger irish players that are qualified for them in their under 20 teams, also advertise on facebook for rugby scholarships to european players, so we may see more in the future.


  • Options
    #34
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Players drawn from another set of criteria
    Winters wrote: »
    Interestingly Argentina have only one Super Rugby team and no project players. The rule is there for them but they choose not to "use" it the way Irish Rugby is. Admirable to say the least.

    Is AJ McGinty Ireland's only "Project Player" export?

    The captain of Kazhakstan was an ex-Blackrock guy wasn't he? I think there was a documentary thing about him on Setanta a while back... Also I know someone who has played abroad, but really very low level ENC stuff which maybe we wouldn't count.


  • Options
    #35
    Kev_2012
    Closed Accounts Posts: 976 ✭✭✭Kev_2012


    How about just selecting players that have passports? The 3 year rule is a bit stupid. You're not Irish unless you have an Irish passport.


  • Options
    #36
    Zzippy
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 14,166 Mod ✭✭✭✭Zzippy


    Option 4, but with a longer qualification period (e.g., 5 years)
    Kev_2012 wrote: »
    How about just selecting players that have passports? The 3 year rule is a bit stupid. You're not Irish unless you have an Irish passport.

    Wrong. Many Ulster players don't have an Irish passport but they are Irish.


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  • Options
    #37
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Players drawn from another set of criteria
    Kev_2012 wrote: »
    How about just selecting players that have passports? The 3 year rule is a bit stupid. You're not Irish unless you have an Irish passport.

    It's not about Ireland, it's about a regulation that works for the whole of world rugby.

    I trust Pichot to get it sorted after a few very painful years, eventually convincing all 6 countries in Europe to get behind it.


  • Options
    #38
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    Players drawn from another set of criteria
    Kev_2012 wrote: »
    How about just selecting players that have passports? The 3 year rule is a bit stupid. You're not Irish unless you have an Irish passport.

    That would never happen anyway but you'd have to extend it to UK passports then.


  • Options
    #39
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 40,994 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Option 4, but with a longer qualification period (e.g., 5 years)
    Kev_2012 wrote: »
    How about just selecting players that have passports? The 3 year rule is a bit stupid. You're not Irish unless you have an Irish passport.

    some people could have 2 or more passports (NI)
    you can literally buy passports for some countries immediately (cyprus, bulgaria)
    players can be offered citizenship to lure them (russia, kuwait)

    these, amongst other reasons, are why world sports tend not to use citizenship as the sole eligibility criterium.


  • Options
    #40
    Kev_2012
    Closed Accounts Posts: 976 ✭✭✭Kev_2012


    Zzippy wrote: »
    Wrong. Many Ulster players don't have an Irish passport but they are Irish.

    I was actually going to further my post by explaining that I don't mean physically have a passport but are eligible for one. Didn't think I needed to.

    Ireland has a very unique political stance when it comes to nationality so obviously that would be taken into account.


  • Options
    #41
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    Players drawn from another set of criteria
    Nucifora: "We're just playing by the rules".

    That's not the point.


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  • Options
    #42
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 40,994 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Option 4, but with a longer qualification period (e.g., 5 years)
    thomond2006 wrote: »
    Nucifora: "We're just playing by the rules".

    That's not the point.


    what exactly is the point?
    and, taking whatever that point is into account, why would the IRFU abide by that point?

    genuine question


  • Options
    #43
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    Players drawn from another set of criteria
    sydthebeat wrote: »
    what exactly is the point?
    and, taking whatever that point is into account, why would the IRFU abide by that point?

    genuine question

    The point is the IRFU recruiting players to play for Ireland.


  • Options
    #44
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 40,994 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Option 4, but with a longer qualification period (e.g., 5 years)
    thomond2006 wrote: »
    The point is the IRFU recruiting players to play for Ireland.
    David Nucifora wrote:
    Nucifora was quick to stress that it is the provinces who identify foreign players to bring to Ireland with contract offers, therefore rejecting the notion that the IRFU is actively scoring the globe for possible project players to qualify for Ireland.

    ????

    its there in black and white in front of you????


  • Options
    #45
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    Players drawn from another set of criteria
    sydthebeat wrote: »
    ????

    its there in black and white in front of you????

    Well I don't think he's telling the truth here, nor would I expect him to.
    If it was true there wouldn't be a project player slot within the foreign player quota.


  • Options
    #46
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 40,994 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Option 4, but with a longer qualification period (e.g., 5 years)
    thomond2006 wrote: »
    Well I don't think he's telling the truth here, nor would I expect him to.
    > your posting in the wrong thread
    thomond2006 wrote: »
    If it was true there wouldn't be a project player slot within the foreign player quota.

    of course there should be.
    given a choice between a NIQ and PP it obviously makes sense that the IRFU would prefer the latter and offer a relaxation as an encouragement.

    Its the provinces that seek out these players, not the irfu, thats irrefutable.


  • Options
    #47
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,293 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Above, plus players with grandparents from that country
    The provinces seek them out because the IRFU make it far easier to sign and keep them. The fact the IRFU aren't physically the ones looking for them is irrelevant and a convenient use of language to get away from the question being asked.


  • Options
    #48
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    Players drawn from another set of criteria
    sydthebeat wrote: »
    >
    Its the provinces that seek out these players, not the irfu, thats irrefutable.

    The IRFU must approve each signing. Who seeks them out in the first place isn't important.


  • Options
    #49
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 40,994 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Option 4, but with a longer qualification period (e.g., 5 years)
    Podge_irl wrote: »
    The fact the IRFU aren't physically the ones looking for them is irrelevant.

    absolutely NOT irrelevant if the statement is
    The point is the IRFU recruiting players to play for Ireland.

    come on lads, what is happening is patently clear.
    you may not agree with it and actively hate it, but dont paint it for something it isnt.
    the IRFU are NOT actively seeking project players
    the IRFU are NOT associating project players with provinces.

    in that interview Nucifora actually hints that ulster wont be allowed a project player to replace Pienaar as that is no encouragement to develop their own SH.

    The conspiracy seeping in here is mind boggling.


  • Options
    #50
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,365 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Above, plus players with grandparents from that country
    Nucifora seems to enjoy a bit of spin anyway.


  • Options
    #51
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 40,994 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Option 4, but with a longer qualification period (e.g., 5 years)
    thomond2006 wrote: »
    The IRFU must approve each signing. So they say yes/no at the end of the day.

    so do you accept that its the provinces that search out the players and not the IRFU as you stated above?


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    #52
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    Players drawn from another set of criteria
    sydthebeat wrote: »
    absolutely NOT irrelevant if the statement is

    come on lads, what is happening is patently clear.
    you may mot agree with it and actively hate it, but dont paint it for something it isnt.
    the IRFU are NOT actively seeking project players
    the IRFU are NOT associating project players with provinces.

    in that interview Nucifora actually hints that ulster wont be allowed a project player to replace Pienaar as that is no encouragement to develop their own SH.

    The conspiracy seeping in here is mind boggling.

    They approve the signings, it's the same difference.

    You said it yourself:
    it obviously makes sense that the IRFU would prefer the latter and offer a relaxation as an encouragement


  • Options
    #53
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,365 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Above, plus players with grandparents from that country
    sydthebeat wrote: »
    so do you accept that its the provinces that search out the players and not the IRFU as you stated above?

    Completely irrelevant.


  • Options
    #54
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    Players drawn from another set of criteria
    sydthebeat wrote: »
    so do you accept that its the provinces that search out the players and not the IRFU as you stated above?

    Yes but it's irrelevant.

    The IRFU must approve the signings, therefore it's on the IRFU here. They have given the space for the provinces to seek out players through the project player spot in the quota. It's not reaching to conclude that the IRFU are recruiting players for Ireland. The way it's done gives them nice leeway to spin it though.

    If the IRFU removed the project player spot a few years ago, we would not be in the current situation.


  • Options
    #55
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,293 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Above, plus players with grandparents from that country
    sydthebeat wrote: »
    The conspiracy seeping in here is mind boggling.

    Nobody is suggesting anything conspiratorial.

    The IRFU do not directly recruit the project players - they simply create the environment that drives the provinces to do so. Thus, as far as I am concerned, the ultimate responsibility lies on them. And answering "we're just abiding by the rules" is asinine.

    The provinces don't, presumably, give the slightest damn whether the player they are recruiting is eligible for Ireland or not.


  • Options
    #56
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 40,994 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Option 4, but with a longer qualification period (e.g., 5 years)
    ah here...... :rolleyes:

    if your going to change the goal posts from
    The point is the IRFU recruiting players to play for Ireland.
    to
    They approve the signings, it's the same difference

    and say the difference between the two is irrelevant then im out.

    Its absolutely relevant.

    It you cant see the IRFU would prefer to sign off on a PP like Marshall than a NIQ like Moore then youve a complete misunderstanding of the system.


  • Options
    #57
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 40,994 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Option 4, but with a longer qualification period (e.g., 5 years)
    awec wrote: »
    Do you really think the provinces want to go out and sign these non-capped guys instead of spending the money on top NIQs?

    im not evangelical about this, i was of the opinion on Moore and more recently on Pienaaar that theres hidden costs to not signing players of that ilk and having them around the squad.

    However the IRFU have to run the cost analysis and decide whether its worth the money in the long run. Munster were allowed sign Saili, Piutau in Ulster and Nacewa back to Leinster, Boshoff to connacht so its all not one way traffic.


  • Options
    #58
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    Players drawn from another set of criteria
    sydthebeat wrote: »
    It you cant see the IRFU would prefer to sign off on a PP like Marshall than a NIQ like Moore then youve a complete misunderstanding of the system.

    Of course I understand it. I don't like it.

    My initial post was a response to Nucifora's non-response. He's putting it down to "We're just playing by the rules". Well you're abusing the spirit of the rule which is the problem most people have with this. Nobody is accusing the IRFU of 'breaking' any rules.


  • Options
    #59
    Nermal
    Registered Users Posts: 2,614 ✭✭✭Nermal


    It's a perfectly reasonable position for the IRFU to say: "we'll use project players to the maximum extent possible within the current rules, but support tightening the rules".


  • Options
    #60
    jacothelad
    Registered Users Posts: 5,906 ✭✭✭jacothelad


    Option 4, but with a longer qualification period (e.g., 5 years)
    awec wrote: »
    I went with parents, but I'd actually mix it with residency too.

    The player should have Irish parents AND be resident in Ireland for a period of time before being capped.

    Just Irish parents? Many things about relationships on this island are complicated by our history and our relationship weith the other island. The IRFU shouldn't be one of them. My son for example would not be eligible to play for 'Ireland' if this was the new system. My wife is Scottish - i.e. U.K. nationality and that is also how I would describe myself in terms of nationality first and Irish second.
    Teferi wrote: »
    Grandparents, parents or just be born in the country. Otherwise you're out of luck. I'd be delighted with that.

    In the case of Ireland, which country are you talking about? R.O.I. only or ROI and U.K. otherwise a few guys from here are going to be disappointed.:D

    It's simple. Born on the island of Ireland - (or it's various islands) should be the over-arching criteria upon which the other rules of qualification are based. Having viewed at first hand and with scars to prove it, how nationalism here has been an appalling influence on things, I'm deeply skeptical of it's manifestations and all the ramifications that can flow from it.

    I have absolutely no problem with the current rules. I'd keep the status quo.


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    #61
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,365 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Above, plus players with grandparents from that country
    jacothelad wrote: »
    Just Irish parents? Many things about relationships on this island are complicated by our history and our relationship weith the other island. The IRFU shouldn't be one of them. My son for example would not be eligible to play for 'Ireland' if this was the new system. My wife is Scottish - i.e. U.K. nationality and that is also how I would describe myself in terms of nationality first and Irish second.



    In the case of Ireland, which country are you talking about? R.O.I. only or ROI and U.K. otherwise a few guys from here are going to be disappointed.:D

    It's simple. Born on the island of Ireland - (or it's various islands) should be the over-arching criteria upon which the other rules of qualification are based. Having viewed at first hand and with scars to prove it, how nationalism here has been an appalling influence on things, I'm deeply skeptical of it's manifestations and all the ramifications that can flow from it.

    I have absolutely no problem with the current rules. I'd keep the status quo.

    Sorry, I meant have at least one parent who would have been eligible to play for Ireland (except if the parent was only eligible by the parent rule).


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