Upskilling for moving into mainstream software development

funkey_monkey · 22-10-2016 10:50pm #1

Hi,

I've started a new job as a Java engineer a few months ago. This is after a number of years in my previous role in a specialised area of software from my I was made redundant.

The previous role was quite unique as most of my time was spent doing non programming activities, but related. Activities such as code reviews, problem investigation, testing and high amounts of documentation. The code was not object oriented and the majority was in a proprietary language.

However, now I'm in my new job I'm struggling with a lot of the concepts and having trouble getting my work completed inside (or close to) the allocated time. This is a problem as I was used to a role where I knew the job inside out and was comfortable with all aspects of it.

I need to start developing my skillset - not only for this role, but for future prospects. Essentially I stayed too long in my previous role and struggled to get a new job with my current CV.

I have been made aware the my current employer has a ranking of all their engineers and it has made me very nervous for my future. I need to think about my CPD which I stupidly ignored over the last number of years - to the point where my new job as a Java engineer could be reasonably argued as a career change.

What I want to do is to develop my coding and design skills up to modern standards, but I'm unsure what is the best path to take.

I was considering a UML accrediation such as OCUP 2 Foundation exam for the design and then OCJP for coding. The reason for this was that as I don't have the experience then I could put forward industry recognised certification as a back up.

However, I am acutely aware that these might not be treated seriously in the industry and also that by focusing on the OCJP I might be limiting myself from non Java roles.

Can any of you guys in the mainstream programming industry inform me how to get up to speed with useful skills that will help me in my current and future roles? I have previously been pointed to Safari Books, Packtpub and informit.com. I know how I learn and I believe I need course based training as opposed to just reading a book. informit looked interesting, but I'm wondering if there are any better options out there.

I had thought about undertaking a Comp Sci degree (my background is Elect Eng with a Masters in Comp Sci) but to complete part time would take too long. My MSc in Comp Sci was over 15 years ago and was a 1 yr conversion course.

I've no real idea as to what is the best way to jump here and I would appreciate any help and advice. I don't really know what good courses are out there and whether I should opt for exam based courses which have some level of proof of knowledge as opposed to courses which have no prrof out outcome that I can add to my CV.

I really don't want to sink in this role as I'm too young to rest on my laurels. I've applied for a number of roles and the lack of perceived tranferrable skills such as Java, C++, UML etc has stopped me from getting called in for interviews - I'm getting dropped by HR before the tech managers get to see my CV. I've struggled to get an interview and essentially this curent role was the only show in town for me and I'm finding it difficult to the point that I need to start thinking about preparing for future jobs if/when this ends.

14ned · 23-10-2016 12:34am

funkey_monkey wrote: »

I've started a new job as a Java engineer a few months ago. This is after a number of years in my previous role in a specialised area of software from my I was made redundant.
<snip>
I've struggled to get an interview and essentially this curent role was the only show in town for me and I'm finding it difficult to the point that I need to start thinking about preparing for future jobs if/when this ends.

Firstly, congrats on the new role.

With any new job it always takes a few months to learn the ropes at the new location. Contractors get particularly good at this given how frequently they move, but expect to have to work an hour extra per day for the first month or two until you get up to speed.

After that, I agree you need to make sure that you never again find it hard to find work. Java is a very liquid skillset, lots of jobs in it, people are always looking for Java guru level devs and willing to pay for them. But as a medium to long term skillset it's not currently looking great, and pay at the mid range is amongst the lowest of all programming languages as it's the least niche. Android which was the biggest hot new thing in Java is moving away from Java, and that'll leave mainly enterprise and business logic left. And even that stuff isn't being written in Java in Silicon Valley anymore, it's slowly being supplanted by less Oracle encumbered technologies.

I'm personally not convinced of the worth of any further certificates or qualifications. They're nice-to-haves once you've got five to ten years of experience, but I'm not sure if they increase your desirability by much.

Most great programmers I know are constantly reading books on programming techniques, studying open source code implementations and often contributing to open source projects. They'll attend programming conferences every year or every two years. They tend to do pet projects outside work in new technologies, or using the technologies from work at the bleeding edge rather than the usually very outdated and conservative level at work. Thing is, none of that stuff appears on your CV, but I guess it might mean you can do a better pitter patter during the interview. Doing all of the above may, after some years, enable you to present at a conference, become recognised as amongst the leadership of a well known open source project, and maybe write a few of those programming books yourself which have amazing royalty percentages by the way. That stuff definitely gets onto your CV in a big way, and then you find employers find you rather than the other way round. About then most move into contracting if you want to stay in Europe, but if you're willing to move to the US salaries around a third of a million dollars are pretty typical nowadays.

But between now and then, well it's probably just a long slog with little recognition. Maybe others will be able to reply more usefully than me.

Niall

counterpointaud · 23-10-2016 12:00pm

What areas appeal to you? UI, backend, database stuff, ops?

It sounds like you don't have a ton of time invested in Java / OO programming, and you are looking for something to focus on to improve employability going forward

I made the jump from Enterprise-y Java to Javascript (mostly front-end, some back-end) a couple of years ago, and I am very glad I did. But, it all depends on what you feel your strengths and interests are.

funkey_monkey · 23-10-2016 2:13pm

14ned wrote: »

Firstly, congrats on the new role.

Thanks. It has been a struggle to get even to interview stage, but I got lucky here.

Contractors get particularly good at this given how frequently they move, but expect to have to work an hour extra per day for the first month or two until you get up to speed.

Yip - I'm in as a contractor which is why I'm keen up to upskill as gettign rid of me is a lot more easy than with a perm staff member.

After that, I agree you need to make sure that you never again find it hard to find work. Java is a very liquid skillset, lots of jobs in it, people are always looking for Java guru level devs and willing to pay for them. But as a medium to long term skillset it's not currently looking great, and pay at the mid range is amongst the lowest of all programming languages as it's the least niche.

I don't see my skill in Java (or any other language) ramping up to near guru level. I'm just trying to get a broad base so that I'm not in a niche again.

I'm personally not convinced of the worth of any further certificates or qualifications. They're nice-to-haves once you've got five to ten years of experience, but I'm not sure if they increase your desirability by much.

I hear what you are saying, but my current skillset was not even getting me past HR who just look for keywords on the CV and if you do not have it there then you're not getting past the first round of filtering. I have personal experience of this recently. I want to make sure that I can apply for jobs which state 3+ years Java or C++ essential, etc... I agree when you have 10+ years of experience then its a different ball game, but for my current situation I think I need to get these keywords onto my CV in a legitimate way. Without experience, I think that qualifications is the best alternative. I find it hard to read and absorb anything with practical experience or a need to learn (courses).

funkey_monkey · 23-10-2016 2:15pm

counterpointaud wrote: »

What areas appeal to you? UI, backend, database stuff, ops?

Essentially I'm an engineer who used software, who has moved into software development purely. Current working on an app with lots of UI stuff. Whilst it is okay, I think I prefer embedded software as this was my background, albeit in a niche area.

It sounds like you don't have a ton of time invested in Java / OO programming, and you are looking for something to focus on to improve employability going forward

Yip - exactly.

14ned · 24-10-2016 11:34am

funkey_monkey wrote: »

I hear what you are saying, but my current skillset was not even getting me past HR who just look for keywords on the CV and if you do not have it there then you're not getting past the first round of filtering. I have personal experience of this recently. I want to make sure that I can apply for jobs which state 3+ years Java or C++ essential, etc... I agree when you have 10+ years of experience then its a different ball game, but for my current situation I think I need to get these keywords onto my CV in a legitimate way. Without experience, I think that qualifications is the best alternative. I find it hard to read and absorb anything with practical experience or a need to learn (courses).

As a contractor at the beginning of your career, you definitely should be allocating up to 5% of income to training annually and at least a week attending something formal offsite and nothing to do with your current client. You can back off later on in your career, but at the beginning training is absolutely essential. Do consult an Accountant before splurging on training though, doing it wrong can make it not tax deductible.

Niall

funkey_monkey · 24-10-2016 9:11pm

Any suggestions as to what type of training i should be doing?

I'm still in work now trying to figure out how to create a simple dialog with radio buttons using jface. Totally lost with the preferences and how to set it up. This should be simple but I'm lost and getting very down about it.

I'm not stupid but this is killing me. I've spent the last couple of hours on the Internet trying to figure it out, but I'm lost.

This is why I need to do some training asap before I end up out of work again.

counterpointaud · 24-10-2016 9:30pm

funkey_monkey wrote: »

Totally lost with the preferences and how to set it up. This should be simple but I'm lost and getting very down about it.

This is a very common feeling for even experienced developers when changing technologies, don't worry. Keep plugging away, things will start to make more sense bit by bit. I think JFace is kind of a niche technology anyway at this stage, the company probably don't expect people to come in knowing everything about it.

The current project I am on, for example, quite a complicated web app, managers do not expect newcomers to be fully productive for 6 - 8 weeks after onboarding. You are probably being a bit hard on yourself. Break the problems you are facing into the smallest possible parts and focus on one at a time.

funkey_monkey · 24-10-2016 11:20pm

How hard could/should it be to create a dialog with a few radio buttons though? You'd be doing this in your second week at uni, if not sooner.

funkey_monkey · 24-10-2016 11:21pm

How hard could/should it be to create a dialog with a few radio buttons though? You'd be doing this in your second week at uni, if not sooner.

punk_one82 · 25-10-2016 12:44am

funkey_monkey wrote: »

How hard could/should it be to create a dialog with a few radio buttons though? You'd be doing this in your second week at uni, if not sooner.

I've no experience with JFace so can't offer any help there, but have you asked any questions on stackoverflow? There should be a lot of people there who can help you get past whatever problems you're having.

On the career side of it, I can't really offer any advice without knowing what areas of software development you are interested in. I've been a java developer since I left college a few years ago, got comfortable in the company I joined as a grad and have since become pretty bored of what I've been doing. Got handed a job offer last week in a consultancy with very few java projects at the minute, so currently in the process of learning iOS dev in Swift because that's where I wanted to transfer to anyway and their main projects are either in Javascript or ruby which I don't know at all and Swift.

The main point is find an area that actually interests you. Does mobile development sound interesting to you? Maybe web application development in one of the more modern javascript frameworks like Node, express etc?

The main reason I got the job offer is because I'd been learning iOS development in my free time and could talk about other areas of software development that I'd read up on to keep myself current. You don't need to be an expert at something to get a new job, but if you can show that you're willing to put in the work to learn it then you've a good shot at getting a role. All that is a lot easier when you're genuinely interested in learning something so it doesn't seem like such a chore writing code outside work just to get a new job.

Maybe when you've found an area you'd like to get into, check meetup.com and see if there are others near you who meet to discuss that technology. I'm not sure how active meetups is in Ireland, but I've started attending the Cocoaheads(for apple devs) meetup in Sydney, and it's pretty inspiring to listen to experts in the field present on the topics you're learning and it's a great way of networking with potential employers too.

terenurebob · 25-10-2016 6:23am

Take a look at www.pluralsight.com . They have lots of hands on practical courses and a free trial period.

Buford T Justice · 25-10-2016 10:04am

funkey_monkey wrote: »

How hard could/should it be to create a dialog with a few radio buttons though? You'd be doing this in your second week at uni, if not sooner.

I wouldn't bank on that..........

red_bairn · 25-10-2016 10:20am

Buford T Justice wrote: »

I wouldn't bank on that..........

I know somebody who was in my conversion course who didn't know how to copy an image and now she is Scrum master in Ericsson.

funkey_monkey · 25-10-2016 12:18pm

I'm more interested in embedded software but I realise that I need to broaden my skillset.
There is no real point learning c++ whilst struggling in a java role.

I prefer the "forced" learning route as I need the motivation of exams etc to force me to keep working at it. It also gives me something to add to the CV.
Is there anyway of determining what courses have the better weighting in the job market.

If I'm going to pay for something I may as well pay for something that gives the most benefits for me.

counterpointaud · 25-10-2016 12:40pm

funkey_monkey wrote: »

Is there anyway of determining what courses have the better weighting in the job market.

In my experience, courses have very limited value. If it was me, I would use pluralsight/frontendmasters/egghead plus building something myself in favour of formal courses.

Most companies these days will put more weight on something you built and can talk about / demonstrate than a certificate in my experience.

funkey_monkey · 25-10-2016 12:49pm

Yes, in the medium term I agree.

However at this stage, I need to get something done to help me with my job which in struggling in.

I need some type of course in java to help me in my new job and possibly something in uml too.

counterpointaud · 25-10-2016 1:07pm

funkey_monkey wrote: »

I need some type of course in java to help me in my new job and possibly something in uml too.

Some suggestions (assuming you are working on native app UI, not web app):
Java Fundamentals
Object-oriented principles
Introduction to UML
Book on SWT and JFace

Additional stuff to get started with UI web dev:
Introduction to HTML5 and CSS3
Introduction to Chrome Dev Tools

14ned · 25-10-2016 2:26pm

funkey_monkey wrote: »

I'm more interested in embedded software but I realise that I need to broaden my skillset.
There is no real point learning c++ whilst struggling in a java role.

If you're interested in embedded, it's never too soon to start. That's my niche skillset and my main worth as a contractor, so I'm actually able for once here to give detailed advice.

First thing you need to do is join the Association of C and C++ Users (ACCU) at https://accu.org/index.php/membership. Despite it looking like it's a C and C++ only thing, it's actually an embedded/low latency/high performance developer's association, you'll see articles on C#, .NET, Java, Python, Rust, Swift, Go, even Erlang, though most of the articles will be on C++ simply because that's the lion's share language of the maximum performance dev world. That expense ought to be tax deductible. Read the twelve journals they send you per year in depth, and try replicating in your own time the topics covered by the articles in your own pet projects outside of work. Join the ACCU mailing lists, and try to leach in the content even if you never post yourself. Go to the annual conference in Bristol each April, including the pre-conference training courses. All that cost should be tax deductible, plus each day in the UK gives you a fixed rate tax free deductible too (ask your accountant).

Buy a copy of the "The Standard C++ Library" by Josuttis and rote learn it off by heart. Most devs think they need to learn C++, no they don't, they need to learn its standard library off by heart. Once you've memorised the standard library you'll already write C++ better than 90% of the "experienced" C++ devs out there. The rest will follow naturally, but I really must emphasise that there is no skipping rote learning that book if you want to become a top rate embedded systems developer (despite, paradoxically, that you will almost certainly never use the STL in any embedded nor high performance system).

Finally, you really ought to schedule regular time each week to watch the videos at https://www.youtube.com/user/CppCon and https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJhay24LTpO1s4bIZxuIqKw and to a lesser extent https://www.youtube.com/user/BoostCon. I use my lunchtime whilst eating and exercising on the bike personally. Whatever works for you.

First year or two it's going to be horrible. Steep learning curve, you'll feel very ignorant. But by year two you'll be finding yourself noticeably springing ahead of everyone you work with, and just because you're mostly studying C++ focused stuff doesn't mean the algorithms and techniques aren't highly transferable into other embedded systems languages. And by year three you'll be far ahead of them, and deliberately dumbing down the code you write because it's anti-social and will get you fired to do otherwise.

Good luck!

Niall

Talisman · 25-10-2016 7:22pm

funkey_monkey wrote: »

I'm more interested in embedded software but I realise that I need to broaden my skillset.
There is no real point learning c++ whilst struggling in a java role.

I prefer the "forced" learning route as I need the motivation of exams etc to force me to keep working at it. It also gives me something to add to the CV.
Is there anyway of determining what courses have the better weighting in the job market.

If I'm going to pay for something I may as well pay for something that gives the most benefits for me.

The forced learning route to motivate yourself suggests to me that your heart isn't in it.

Have you considered entering the field of IoT? You have a degree in Electrical Engineering, you have coding experience, IoT and embedded systems would seem to go hand in hand.

Coursera: Introduction to the Internet of Things and Embedded Systems

Talisman · 26-10-2016 8:17am

Sign up for DZone - it's free. It has some great resources for introducing developers to technology.

You'll receive a daily newsletter with links to a variety of topics, the articles are relatively short so are a quick read.

funkey_monkey · 26-10-2016 11:06pm

In the short term I've decided to start learning more about Java. I'm looking at the Java course listed by counterpointaud and also looking to find something more in keeping with techniques and algorithms.

Java/OOP
Programming techniques
UML

Buford T Justice · 27-10-2016 12:20am

funkey_monkey wrote: »

In the short term I've decided to start learning more about Java. I'm looking at the Java course listed by counterpointaud and also looking to find something more in keeping with techniques and algorithms.
Java/OOP

Programming techniques

UML

Are you struggling with OOP?

funkey_monkey · 27-10-2016 6:13pm

Not really, but usually it is combined into the language courses now.
Problem solving and debug would be good too!

Talisman · 27-10-2016 7:27pm

funkey_monkey · 30-10-2016 10:52pm

Hi, just been reading up ont hese whilst doing some work. Are these courses you recommend (which I'd hold greater faith in) or are these courses you all have found from searches and have not participated in?

Thanks.

funkey_monkey · 18-12-2016 11:10pm

Hi again, well the customer has moved me into a verification role. I'm not sure it is due to my performance or a need to rebalance the resource.

It does mean however, that I've got a bit more breathing room to get learning at home on some technologies. I had been making what I thought to be reasonable progress - especially compared with those around me so I'm a bit disappointed to be switched into a new role.

Would trying to write programs for www.projecteuler.net be a wise way to pick things up?

In my mind I'm thinking about putting together an oline library of programmes I hope to write in Java and/or C++. Would employers take much note of this and how believeable would it be? I would like to get at least the first x programs peer reviewed in order to learn from my mistakes. In that scenario would I be able to put these online or would I have to put a caveat alongside the program to state they have been reviewed and modified?

Anyone come across anything like before?

Thanks.

funkey_monkey · 28-04-2017 4:09pm

I've been going through the Lynda foundation courses - I expected them to be a bit more easier than what I'm experiencing - I understand it all so far though.
Just done the design patterns course and I'm wondering if/how I'll be able to put them into practice and recognise when/where to use them.
Other than that it mostly seems to be a refresher of stuff I already knew or understood on first viewing - which is positive.

Coming from a procedural programming background it shows how different the OO style is to pick up on. Recognising where and how to apply the techniques in real world coding environment will be the difficult part.

Hopefully these courses will also help me meet the Engineers Ireland CPD target for this year.

My medium term plan currently is that when I've completed these foundations courses to look into getting the following certifications:
UML: OCUP 2 - http://www.omg.org/ocup-2/
Java: OCPJP
C++: CPA - https://cppinstitute.org/cpa-c-certified-associate-programmer-certification *

* I don't know of any industry recognition of this qualification, so its the last on my list. However, I see the C++ related work (embedded software) as more inline with my skills and interests. I'm not sure about this one though as the jobs I've searched for seem to request either of Java or C++. So, I could drop this one and concentrate on the Java.

I appreciate that many of you will recoil at the thought of certifications, but I think it is a 'sneaky' way of getting these keywords onto my CV and hence getting through the HR filter. Also, it might make me stand out in a better way. All I can ask for is that it gets me to the interview stage...

I still intend to have a website of my programming examples to link to on my CV. I might be biting off more than I can chew here though. My problem here is that I'm rubbish of thinking up projects to develop!

My reason for this approach is that these are relatively quick hits in terms of committed hours when compared to the effort required for post graduate course. As I don't have the experience for the positions, all I can really do is show that I've got a level of competence and understanding for the role.
I've got qualifications in electronics and an MSc in Comp Sci (from a number of years ago).

Longer term, I am looking at something more focused from an as yet unknown provider. My professional body now requires 35 hours CPD per annum to retain the title so there is a concrete incentive for me here to keep up the training. If they brought this in a number of years ago I might not be in this mess now.

My mind is not made up as whether to undertake a postgrad course to bring everything up to date or whether to select specific modules from a variety of institutions to fill gaps or interests.
The thought of doing x individual courses and not getting a qualification at the end doesn't sit right with me.

My job was ended and I'm back now doing more familiar work. Hopefully this will allow me the required time and energy to progress my development.

funkey_monkey · 22-10-2018 12:00am

Talisman wrote: »

The forced learning route to motivate yourself suggests to me that your heart isn't in it.

It's not that my heart is not in it, but I do struggle to focus on things when there is not a definitive outcome.

The Java only lasted for a year until my contract was ended. I'm now back doing a more familiar role, but I'm trying to keep learning in order to ensure the next time something happens that I'm not caught flat footed again.

I completed the Lynda training - it was mostly familiar stuff, but refreshing it brought it back into my mind.

Looking at my previous post, I've decided to give UML a miss as my understanding now is that it is not something that is widely used any more and its usage is decreasing.

This thread has been very useful for me so I'm going to read through it again and hopefully start making some proper inroads on my personal development for when the next bullet arrives.

funkey_monkey · 09-11-2018 12:53pm

I've signed up for ACCU.

As the professional body CPD only permits 14hrs (out of the 35hr requirement) to be self directed learning I'm considering the CPA course and if it resonates with me I'll go on for the CPP.

My current contract is very busy - which is good, but is not helpful for CPD as my free time is now limited when other activities are taken into account.

Thankfully, the CPD requirement now puts an onus on me to take control of my development.

14ned · 09-11-2018 3:07pm

funkey_monkey wrote: »

I've signed up for ACCU.

Cool.

About 95% of the ACCU magazine articles teach me nothing new, but every two issues or so there's a nugget of gold. And it's useful reading for lunchtimes.

The ACCU conference is much more valuable, I usually learn a few new things. Not many new things nowadays though. Last year I attended the EuroLLVM conference and learned a ton of useful new stuff. So I can definitely see that after this April, I'm going to drop to a conference every two or even three years from now on. They are expensive, and the bang for the buck isn't what it was for me personally.

Niall

Upskilling for moving into mainstream software development

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