New bull for sucklers

390kid

Where on the look out for a new bull for this years breeding season and I was hoping I could get some othere peoples opinions here on what breeds they have or blood lines there stock bull might have a we have a herd of plainish cows not big because of the ground type we have and I'm hoping to get a more stylish weanling from them. Am I made in the head thinking this can be done?

tanko

It can be done but it doesn't matter how good the bull is, you still need decent quality cows to get quality calves. My neighbour has a big CH bull (a son of Pinay), which is easy calved. He has red lim and Saler cows which aren't too big resulting in hairy calves with golden yellow hair.
He sold the March/April born Bulls last week weighing between 290-320 kgs, they made €850-€890. They were getting a kilo of creep each every day for the last two months. His land is either rocky ground or wet ground. Not a bad system at all.

Who2

If youve plain cows you need muscle. the best all rounder calving wise, colour and for different markets is the limo, they are easy calved and up and sucking straight away. ch if your at home with them calving and around for the first few weeks. if your finishing yourself an angus or whitehead.

Limestone Cowboy

390kid wrote: »

Where on the look out for a new bull for this years breeding season and I was hoping I could get some othere peoples opinions here on what breeds they have or blood lines there stock bull might have a we have a herd of plainish cows not big because of the ground type we have and I'm hoping to get a more stylish weanling from them. Am I made in the head thinking this can be done?

What breed of cows have you and are you around to watch them closely at calving? Hard to beat a Charolais the day your selling to be honest.

390kid

tanko wrote: »

It can be done but it doesn't matter how good the bull is, you still need decent quality cows to get quality calves. My neighbour has a big CH bull (a son of Pinay), which is easy calved. He has red lim and Saler cows which aren't too big resulting in hairy calves with golden yellow hair.
He sold the March/April born Bulls last week weighing between 290-320 kgs, they made 850- 890. They were getting a kilo of creep each every day for the last two months. His land is either rocky ground or wet ground. Not a bad system at all.

God there's nothing wrong with them weights!

390kid

We have 50/50 with whitehead x and charolais and we would have a few angus x coming down the line in a year or 2. Ye you are right about the charolais there is one here bred by organdi and we were more than happy with him but would just like a bit more weight and style to the calves

tanko

390kid wrote: »

God there's nothing wrong with them weights!

The bull puts great length into the calves and the cows have plenty of milk. The phrase "an ounce of breeding is worth a tonne of feeding" comes to mind when looking at his calves.
The ideal bull will be reasonably easy calved but will give calves which develop well afterwards.

charolais0153

Limestone Cowboy wrote: »

What breed of cows have you and are you around to watch them closely at calving? Hard to beat a Charolais the day your selling to be honest.

Like the aul lad at the mart with a few limo calves, give everything a charolais next year . then after ringing the vet at 3 am and the big CH calf is slow to suck , give them a limo any more:D:D

Limestone Cowboy

charolais0153 wrote: »

Like the aul lad at the mart with a few limo calves, give everything a charolais next year . then after ringing the vet at 3 am and the big CH calf is slow to suck , give them a limo any more:D:D

Exactly why I said the day your selling

390kid

charolais0153 wrote: »

Limestone Cowboy wrote: »

What breed of cows have you and are you around to watch them closely at calving? Hard to beat a Charolais the day your selling to be honest.

Like the aul lad at the mart with a few limo calves, give everything a charolais next year . then after ringing the vet at 3 am and the big CH calf is slow to suck , give them a limo any more:D:D

Can be true enough alright we'd a few angus calves this year and we only had to handle to tag them.

Limestone Cowboy

390kid wrote: »

Can be true enough alright we'd a few angus calves this year and we only had to handle to tag them.

Ya but sure you'll be a few hundred out of pocket the day you are selling. Going back to the cows, I think you'll find it hard to breed real shapey calves out of he or aa cows regardless of what bull you put on them. Weight is as much about calving date and keeping plenty of good quality grass in front of them as much as anything else assuming that the he and aa cows are fairly milky.

390kid

Limestone Cowboy wrote: »

390kid wrote: »

Can be true enough alright we'd a few angus calves this year and we only had to handle to tag them.

Ya but sure you'll be a few hundred out of pocket the day you are selling. Going back to the cows, I think you'll find it hard to breed real shapey calves out of he or aa cows regardless of what bull you put on them. Weight is as much about calving date and keeping plenty of good quality grass in front of them as much as anything else assuming that the he and aa cows are fairly milky.

Your right there about being a few hundred out, ya have to really put a price on your time to justify it alright. The cows are fairly milky and calving from mid March on till late April which is gonna have to be changed aswell.

charolais0153

Stq heifer

And mother

She was rearing 5 calves at one time this year

Genghis Cant

390kid wrote: »

We have 50/50 with whitehead x and charolais and we would have a few angus x coming down the line in a year or 2. Ye you are right about the charolais there is one here bred by organdi and we were more than happy with him but would just like a bit more weight and style to the calves

I think a good Lim bull on them cow breeds would tick a lot of boxes. Decent bull calves, good heifers for beef or breeding.
If you're good at calving cows and around at calving, A good Charolais bull is always a good bet.
Thats what I'd be looking at anyway!

TITANIUM.

charolais0153 wrote: »

Stq heifer

And mother

She was rearing 5 calves at one time this year

Cracking heifer.
That sultan is a great bull.easy enough calved aswell in fairness . Use abit of him myself. He no longer qualifies for the BDGP if your all AI so be careful there. Go figure.

charolais0153

TITANIUM. wrote: »

Cracking heifer.
That sultan is a great bull.easy enough calved aswell in fairness . Use abit of him myself. He no longer qualifies for the BDGP if your all AI so be careful there. Go figure.

Register all of your bull calf's as out of 5 star bulls cos they won't be genotyped

Mooooo

Can you ai any of them? Could use a proven ai BB on the whiteheads/ Angus and get a limo/ch bull for the rest and to catch any that don't hold to ai.

Never wrestle with pigs

Anyone use a really good cross bull? Add a bit of hybrid vigor could leave very nice calves if you could get the calving difficulty right. I never did but often wondered when you see a really nice bull calf.

390kid

charolais0153 wrote: »

Stq heifer

And mother

She was rearing 5 calves at one time this year

Smashin outfit der lad

390kid

Mooooo wrote: »

Can you ai any of them? Could use a proven ai BB on the whiteheads/ Angus and get a limo/ch bull for the rest and to catch any that don't hold to ai.

Ye I have been looking down that road again, maybe get a teaser bull. I would like to experiment with a few BB

blue5000

charolais0153 wrote: »

Register all of your bull calf's as out of 5 star bulls cos they won't be genotyped

That's really pointless though isn't it? If someone doesn't have enough females in the herd they'll ask them to genotype males.

All ai bulls are genotyped, so a wrong one will show up fairly fast.

TITANIUM.

charolais0153 wrote: »

TITANIUM. wrote: »

Cracking heifer.
That sultan is a great bull.easy enough calved aswell in fairness . Use abit of him myself. He no longer qualifies for the BDGP if your all AI so be careful there. Go figure.

Register all of your bull calf's as out of 5 star bulls cos they won't be genotyped

Lol ,do you think it would work?
I know that once an animal is AI'd and put through the handheld the info is automatically transferred to the ICBF.

tanko

charolais0153 wrote: »

Register all of your bull calf's as out of 5 star bulls cos they won't be genotyped

What's the benefit of doing that?
They may be genotyped if you run out of cows and heifers to genotype.

charolais0153

So you get the money if you hadn't enough 4 or 5 star sires bulled to cows

tanko

charolais0153 wrote: »

So you get the money if you hadn't enough 4 or 5 star sires bulled to cows

Now now, down with that sort of thing, you can get the money if you have no cows tho:pac:

Grueller

Mooooo wrote: »

Can you ai any of them? Could use a proven ai BB on the whiteheads/ Angus and get a limo/ch bull for the rest and to catch any that don't hold to ai.

At blues here since mid 90s. No point putting them on anything with he or aa and expecting a calf anywhere near ship quality. Ship quality calves come from continental cows. Limo is the best bet for those Imo or charolais at a push.

kelslat

Grueller wrote: »

At blues here since mid 90s. No point putting them on anything with he or aa and expecting a calf anywhere near ship quality. Ship quality calves come from continental cows. Limo is the best bet for those Imo or charolais at a push.

What would bb calves of Salers cows be like? Would charolais be a better option for them?

Who2

kelslat wrote: »

What would bb calves of Salers cows be like? Would charolais be a better option for them?

Blues don't work on those type ie. ch, sa, or si. Your better stick with lim , ba or pt. you need a small bit of shape in the cow to throw the right calf.

kelslat

I will stay with a charolais x salers mix so. I just taught the salers would calve down easy to a bb bull and bring a blue coloured calf. I have seen good shapely calves out of Lim x salers too.

Lady Haywire

Who2 wrote: »

Blues don't work on those type ie. ch, sa, or si. Your better stick with lim , ba or pt. you need a small bit of shape in the cow to throw the right calf.

Ah here, the best blues I ever had were out of ch/si crosses. Fella I dehorn calves for puts blues on ch that would be almost pb and gets brilliant stock.
Though you could be referring to a ratty, narrow ch throwing crap bb crosses. In which case I agree wholeheartedly!
If you're putting a blue on a SI you have to go for the biggest motherf**ker the ai man has, VMP or VDV for example, to take the rawness out of the cow.

Who2

Lady Haywire wrote: »

Ah here, the best blues I ever had were out of ch/si crosses. Fella I dehorn calves for puts blues on ch that would be almost pb and gets brilliant stock.
Though you could be referring to a ratty, narrow ch throwing crap bb crosses. In which case I agree wholeheartedly!
If you're putting a blue on a SI you have to go for the biggest motherf**ker the ai man has, VMP or VDV for example, to take the rawness out of the cow.

Ah here they are the wrong cow for the job, ch, sim and salers are frames to carry meat on bone, they aren't suitable simple as. It's like those lads that buy hiluxes then lower them and put delicate little alloys on them. Limo, ba and pt give just enough hybrid vigour and a little raise in height without messing too much on the animals style.

Lady Haywire

Who2 wrote: »

Ah here they are the wrong cow for the job, ch, sim and salers are frames to carry meat on bone, they aren't suitable simple as. It's like those lads that buy hiluxes then lower them and put delicate little alloys on them. Limo, ba and pt give just enough hybrid vigour and a little raise in height without messing too much on the animals style.

We'll have to agree to disagree then. You'd often see a lot of off-white animals at shows, especially in butchers heifer classes, which are a ch off a blue cow. The cow inputs the frame and the blue gene adds the muscle to go on that frame. But if you're using a toastrack cow, it's never going to work, the cow has to have muscle herself.

High bike

Just invested in a young 5star Aubrac bull ,what are people's thoughts on this????

tellmeabit

Tempted to same myself. What age? From farm yard or mart?

blue5000

High bike wrote: »

Just invested in a young 5star Aubrac bull ,what are people's thoughts on this????

What's he by?

TITANIUM.

High bike wrote: »

Just invested in a young 5star Aubrac bull ,what are people's thoughts on this????

Apparently the Aubrac cows are second only to salers on replacement,
What kind of cows have you?

charolais0153

TITANIUM. wrote: »

Apparently the Aubrac cows are second only to salers on replacement,
What kind of cows have you?

Id say you'd have to kill most of the cattle rather than weanlings because of the colour

blue5000

charolais0153 wrote: »

Id say you'd have to kill most of the cattle rather than weanlings because of the colour

Not necessarily. Big demand for aubrac x culard ch weanlings in Italy. But I agree with you a lot depends on colour still.

charolais0153

blue5000 wrote: »

Not necessarily. Big demand for aubrac x culard ch weanlings in Italy. But I agree with you a lot depends on colour still.

I wouldn't rely on Italians with their market and economy
I thought aubrac and culard charolais crosses was more in France?

Eggie99

This is why I love boards, a wealth of info from so many different backgrounds, Evan though we are all farming we all have our own views. Great thread

Welding Rod

Lady Haywire wrote: »

Who2 wrote: »

Ah here they are the wrong cow for the job, ch, sim and salers are frames to carry meat on bone, they aren't suitable simple as. It's like those lads that buy hiluxes then lower them and put delicate little alloys on them. Limo, ba and pt give just enough hybrid vigour and a little raise in height without messing too much on the animals style.

We'll have to agree to disagree then. You'd often see a lot of off-white animals at shows, especially in butchers heifer classes, which are a ch off a blue cow. The cow inputs the frame and the blue gene adds the muscle to go on that frame. But if you're using a toastrack cow, it's never going to work, the cow has to have muscle herself.

UBN Lim from Dovea brings a mighty calf off tall, bare too embarrassing to show simxchar cows. In fact UBN works on nearly any tall bare cow. He is a seriously thick bull and transmits it every time.

Future Farmer

TITANIUM. wrote: »

Cracking heifer.
That sultan is a great bull.easy enough calved aswell in fairness . Use abit of him myself. He no longer qualifies for the BDGP if your all AI so be careful there. Go figure.

It is a real pity.

He still can be used as part 10% non qualified for BDGP Scheme under general use.

ZSD Serpentin seems to be doing a great job, saw some super weanlings in Carnew.

The brother is delighted with a his few VAPs at home, first Blues he's ever used.

High bike

tellmeabit wrote: »

Tempted to same myself. What age? From farm yard or mart?

11 mts so should be strong enough for action by mid May,bought privately

High bike

blue5000 wrote: »

What's he by?

5star stock bull and a big 5star cow

tellmeabit

High bike wrote: »

tellmeabit wrote: »

Tempted to same myself. What age? From farm yard or mart?

11 mts so should be strong enough for action by mid May,bought privately

this is same as what i am thinking except maybe couple months older. have big ould cows. are they suitable for heiffers? easy calving by all accounts.

High bike

TITANIUM. wrote: »

Apparently the Aubrac cows are second only to salers on replacement,
What kind of cows have you?

thats why I took a chance and hopefully better docility,the cows are mixed blues , sim , ch, and limx angus so the colours will be interesting😀

High bike

tellmeabit wrote: »

this is same as what i am thinking except maybe couple months older. have big ould cows. are they suitable for heiffers? easy calving by all accounts.

well this lad has 2.3% calving difficulty but they'r supposed to be easily calved anyway

High bike

charolais0153 wrote: »

Id say you'd have to kill most of the cattle rather than weanlings because of the colour

colours should be interesting all rite

blue5000

High bike wrote: »

colours should be interesting all rite

From what I've seen they nearly always follow the cow's colour, only exception would be a red calf from a black aa cow with lim in her breeding. The black snout would remind you of a jersey.

Hope he works out well for you. They are born small, so if you are weighing weanlings for icbf weigh the calves when they are born as well, other wise the ADG will be low. ICBF have a standard birthweight of 45kg for a bull, an aubrac bull calf could be 10 kg less than that.

annubis

got a few straws of the gene Ireland aubrac bull, they seem to make nice cows

High bike

blue5000 wrote: »

From what I've seen they nearly always follow the cow's colour, only exception would be a red calf from a black aa cow with lim in her breeding. The black snout would remind you of a jersey.

Hope he works out well for you. They are born small, so if you are weighing weanlings for icbf weigh the calves when they are born as well, other wise the ADG will be low. ICBF have a standard birthweight of 45kg for a bull, an aubrac bull calf could be 10 kg less than that.

Thanks blue I can put the calving jack on done deal soðŸ‘