White Irish people are racist - Irish Times

Connacht2KXX

irishtimes . com/opinion/white-privilege-is-real-and-it-exists-in-ireland-1.2835557

So the title of this thread is a little bit clickbait, but is definitely a less serious transgression than the publishing of this article by the Irish Times.

It is beyond embarrassing. It goes on about how all white Irish people have white privilege yet doesn't fully articulate what white privilege is, other than white people don't have to overcome obstacles that coloured people do. Yes, us whites have the privilege of being more likely to commit suicide and become homeless. One of the few (terrible) examples the author gives of white privilege, is that he doesn't get harassed in public as he looks white yet gets some slagging online for having a Asian surname.

The crux of the article is that we don't address our inherent racist culture. Yet he complains that when we tried to bring up the topic of racism, we did it wrong as there was an all white panel. These sjws, feminists etc have no idea how logic works. The whole point of logical arguments is that it doesn't matter what the gender, sex, race etc of the person is. If the argument is rooted in evidence, facts and honest appraisal of the situation, it will work. Therefore, it doesn't matter if the panel was all white, all black, all women, all gays etc. Provided they were speaking honestly and rationally about racism, then the problem will actually get addressed. Also, it is very funny to read from the author about how awful racism is, yet he believes that the colour of the skin of the members of the panel determines whether or not they can contribute to the discussion in a sufficient manner. Here's the Oxford dictionary definition of racism - "the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races."

TLDR do we have white privilege?

Hunchback

In a situation like that, a panel would benefit from the presence of someone that might fit into the bracket of persons about whom they are debating.

The Specialist

**** the sjws and anybody else who bleats on about "white privilege". Spend a day in a man's shoes you insufferable *****

Connacht2KXX

Hunchback wrote: »

In a situation like that, a panel would benefit from the presence of someone that might fit into the bracket of persons about whom they are debating.

Yes, no doubt it would have. The main point that I'm making is that these people can't grasp the fundamental concept of logic and are depressingly ironic in their own racism (ie saying that the members of a panel couldn't tackle the issue of racism due to the colour of their skin).

Dirty Dingus McGee

If people like the writer of that piece continue to define themselves by their skin colour then these kinds of articles reinforce a stigma rather than do any good.

There are always going to be racist people in any society and there is unfortunately not going you can do about it.People unfortunately need to accept that the word will never be free of assholes and move on with their lives.

darkpagandeath

How can you have white privilege in a country that is white ?

Richard Hillman

They need to behave themselves. The Guardian is about to go bust after their constant attacks on white males.

The Irish Times readership is mainly white Irish middle class males. Behave yourselves or you will lose the jobs of your colleagues.

Moo Moo Land

The Irish have always been more racist that the racists themselves.

Dyr

We have White Irish privilege and tis mighty. Hope we keep it.

Winterlong

darkpagandeath wrote: »

How can you have white privilege in a country that is white ?

This.

And God forbid we might get a bit of decent journalism just once in a while.

Holograph

The Specialist wrote: »

**** the sjws and anybody else who bleats on about "white privilege". Spend a day in a man's shoes you insufferable *****

A lot of them are men?

But I agree otherwise. People who whinge about white privilege in Ireland tend to be white and middle-class and in need of finding something to be guilty about.

Ireland is not a racist country and if Irish people deny it's a racist country, that's simply them defending themselves the way any group would from unfair generalisations. There are racists in Ireland obviously but isolated individual incidents are not something we are all responsible for. Try Poland and get back to us about Ireland being a racist society then. The writer of that terrible piece couldn't even give solid examples of a racist dynamic in Irish society. He gave two examples of racism and there will always be the outliers.

His surname sounds Dutch actually, not Asian.

Connacht2KXX

Holograph wrote: »

A lot of them are men?

But I agree otherwise. People who whinge about white privilege in Ireland tend to be white and middle-class and in need of finding something to be guilty about.

Ireland is not a racist country and if Irish people deny it's a racist country, that's simply them defending themselves the way any group would from unfair generalisations. There are racists in Ireland obviously but isolated individual incidents are not something we are all responsible for. Try Poland and get back to us about Ireland being a racist society then. The writer of that terrible piece couldn't even give solid examples of a racist dynamic in Irish society. He gave two examples of racism and there will always be the outliers.

His surname sounds Dutch actually, not Asian.

Hit the nail on the head

Dyr

Holograph wrote: »

A
His surname sounds Dutch actually, not Asian.

Pretty sure Nguyen is a Vietnamese name

Holograph

Bambi wrote: »

Pretty sure Nguyen is a Vietnamese name

Oh yeah I was looking at the Van bit.

Padster90s

White privilege can't really exist in a 95% white country...

entropi

How can you have racism when we're all the one race?

FTA69

Is there racism in Ireland? Definitely. Does that mean Ireland is a "racist country" - not necessarily.

_Kaiser_

More importantly, who cares.. Discussions like this give people like the author of this article legitimacy as they point to such debates as validation of their argument. They're best ignored... just as such people used to be in the days before social media and 24/7 news with space to fill.

Donald Trump

But but but....what if you're from the Northside???

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XnRF5zyIKE

Harvey Normal

Holograph wrote: »

A lot of them are men?

But I agree otherwise. People who whinge about white privilege in Ireland tend to be white and middle-class and in need of finding something to be guilty about.

Ireland is not a racist country and if Irish people deny it's a racist country, that's simply them defending themselves the way any group would from unfair generalisations. There are racists in Ireland obviously but isolated individual incidents are not something we are all responsible for. Try Poland and get back to us about Ireland being a racist society then. The writer of that terrible piece couldn't even give solid examples of a racist dynamic in Irish society. He gave two examples of racism and there will always be the outliers.

His surname sounds Dutch actually, not Asian.

Actually the upper middle class love pointing out privileges that ignore their own specific privileges.

B.A._Baracus

White privilege - never heard that until 2016. Sick of the new words being created.

The_Valeyard

Sure we've had 800 hundred years of white privilege.

CrabRevolution

I don't understand how you can be privileged if you're 95% of the population. At some stage there must come a point where such an overwhelming number of people have a certain "privilege" that it becomes the normality. In the majority of events in life in Ireland where "privilege" could come into play, you're up against other white people.

It's a good job we don't have more relevant privileges such as class or wealth, it's just that we're all racist :rolleyes:.

Tigger

what about cultural appropriation which you have done by stealing BAs name and which he did by stealing the Mohowk's hair style

Your Face

There is a degree of racism in Ireland but it takes many forms.
Its not only a case of 'evil white people' keeping the flavour-of-the-month minority down.
Its a case of bitter malcontents using any type of incendiary language in an attempt to get their way.
Sometimes a person doesnt deserve what they want.

BreadnBuddha

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

White privilege - never heard that until 2016. Sick of the new words being created.

Old words. New-ish phrase.

Either way, white privilege does not exist in the way this eejit supposes for Irish people. Only a fool would take this clown Nguyen seriously.

His colleague at the times puts it very well...

http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/so-what-if-i-m-privileged-that-doesn-t-invalidate-my-point-of-view-1.2739065

B.A._Baracus

Tigger wrote: »

what about cultural appropriation which you have done by stealing BAs name and which he did by stealing the Mohowk's hair style

What you say sucka?!


:pac:

Hollister11

We are a very racist country (behind people's back) to their face, we as nice as pie.

Turtyturd

Tigger wrote: »

what about cultural appropriation which you have done by stealing BAs name and which he did by stealing the Mohowk's hair style

I know your tongue is planted firmly in your cheek here but the whole cultural appropriation of hairstyles is one thing that annoys me.

'Hey you know the way your hair knots together if you don't wash it or brush it...that's our culture.'

F*ck off.

Holograph

Hollister11 wrote: »

We are a very racist country (behind people's back) to their face, we as nice as pie.

Not my experience - no we about it. No doubt what you say happens but nowhere near enough to make Ireland a very racist country. How immigrants fare here overall is what should be examined.

Holograph

BreadnBuddha wrote: »

Old words. New-ish phrase.

Either way, white privilege does not exist in the way this eejit supposes for Irish people. Only a fool would take this clown Nguyen seriously.

His colleague at the times puts it very well...

http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/so-what-if-i-m-privileged-that-doesn-t-invalidate-my-point-of-view-1.2739065

Good piece. Self loathing middle-class people putting down others in the very same demographic for being middle-class and privileged is starting to stick in people's craw.

Connacht2KXX

I definitely don't think we're a racist country. The only experience of racism I've come across is where people would say to me about how there are hardly any Irish people living in this town, village etc. I wouldn't even call that racism, considering they're just stating facts.

"Racism", "racist", "white supremacist" have all lost their potency and meaning since every white person in the west has been given these labels.

AnGaelach

Connacht2KXX wrote: »

It is beyond embarrassing. It goes on about how all white Irish people have white privilege yet doesn't fully articulate what white privilege is, other than white people don't have to overcome obstacles that coloured people do. Yes, us whites have the privilege of being more likely to commit suicide and become homeless. One of the few (terrible) examples the author gives of white privilege, is that he doesn't get harassed in public as he looks white yet gets some slagging online for having a Asian surname.

They never will quantify and they never can quantify it because it's a load of utter bollocks. Go to a working class or council estate in Dublin and tell me if you think they're privileged or not.

Connacht2KXX wrote: »

The crux of the article is that we don't address our inherent racist culture. Yet he complains that when we tried to bring up the topic of racism, we did it wrong as there was an all white panel. These sjws, feminists etc have no idea how logic works. The whole point of logical arguments is that it doesn't matter what the gender, sex, race etc of the person is. If the argument is rooted in evidence, facts and honest appraisal of the situation, it will work. Therefore, it doesn't matter if the panel was all white, all black, all women, all gays etc. Provided they were speaking honestly and rationally about racism, then the problem will actually get addressed. Also, it is very funny to read from the author about how awful racism is, yet he believes that the colour of the skin of the members of the panel determines whether or not they can contribute to the discussion in a sufficient manner. Here's the Oxford dictionary definition of racism - "the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races."

Their line of reasoning is utterly repulsive and not at all coherent. A white man can't talk about racism, unless it's condemning white people for being racist.

Mansplaining, white privilege, whatever-else-they've-made-up... It's a load of utter tripe.

Connacht2KXX wrote: »

TLDR do we have white privilege?

No.

Harvey Normal

AnGaelach wrote: »

They never will quantify and they never can quantify it because it's a load of utter bollocks. Go to a working class or council estate in Dublin and tell me if you think they're privileged or not.



Their line of reasoning is utterly repulsive and not at all coherent. A white man can't talk about racism, unless it's condemning white people for being racist.

Mansplaining, white privilege, whatever-else-they've-made-up... It's a load of utter tripe.



No.

not just working class white Irish people but immigrants who are white and indeed travellers should have "white skinned" privilege but I rarely see that argued.

Didas

He has just taken an American phenomenon and applied it to Ireland without any regard for the huge social and cultural differences between the two countries, idiotic really.

"White privilege" is very much an American-rooted idea. I can see why it applies there, and why the Black Lives Matter movement etc. exists. The problem is trying to impose American identity politics on other "white" countries. Ireland was homogeneous for so long that we don't have the same history of racial tensions, as least not white-black tensions anyway. Hell, Ireland tends to be given as a counterpoint to the "all white people are privileged" school of thought given the ol' 800 years of British oppression and whatnot.

Reducing everything to skin colour isn't very relevant in a European context; "white privilege" didn't help Jews in WWII, nor is it going to help Eastern Europeans settled in the UK if a surge in post-Brexit hate crimes is to keep continuing. Isolated racist incidents definitely occur in Ireland, as in any other country, but I don't really know if institutional racism to specifically benefit white people is a widespread thing here. Certainly not to the extent that it is in the US anyway, or perhaps Russia.

To be honest the article demonstrates "American privilege" more than anything else; the author isn't even American, yet he's appropriating sociological thought from that country and applying it here because they are the dominant world power. You very rarely hear Tumblr masses acknowledging American (or British) privilege; it always comes back to the white male, regardless of nationality or upbringing.

^ Edit: the post above basically sums up what I tried to say much more succintly. :pac:

darkpagandeath

Holograph wrote: »

Not my experience - no we about it. No doubt what you say happens but nowhere near enough to make Ireland a very racist country. How immigrants fare here overall is what should be examined.

Most of our Immigrants are white also.

AnGaelach

tonygun wrote: »

He has just taken an American phenomenon and applied it to Ireland without any regard for the huge social and cultural differences between the two countries, idiotic really.

Deleted User wrote: »

"White privilege" is very much an American-rooted idea. I can see why it applies there, and why the Black Lives Matter movement etc. exists. The problem is trying to impose American identity politics on other "white" countries. Ireland was homogeneous for so long that we don't have the same history of racial tensions, as least not white-black tensions anyway. Hell, Ireland tends to be given as a counterpoint to the "all white people are privileged" school of thought given the ol' 800 years of British oppression and whatnot.

Now hang on a fúcking second, are you lads trying to say there isn't a uniform "white culture"? Typical white person response.

I'll see you fúckers in the gulags mandatory politeness camps.

Old Bill

I wonder do the Irish Times also oppose Black "privilege" in Africa ?

AnGaelach

Old Bill wrote: »

I wonder do the Irish Times also oppose Black "privilege" in Africa ?

There was a certain poster who believed white people in Africa were invaders, and could never be African. While also saying black people can be European by virtue of being born there.

So your answer is probably no since for some reason.

A Little Pony

White privilege is absolute bollocks made up by cultural marxists who hate Western values and freedoms and most importantly, white people. Ireland for the Irish is what I say.

Didas

Good to see an interesting sociological discussion has been hijacked by racist drivel.

Irish Guitarist

What a load of balls. The worst examples of racism he can come up with is someone being verbally abused on Twitter and someone else applying for a job under two different names and only getting the job under the 'whiter' name. The latter sounds like someone looking to find trouble.

darkpagandeath

tonygun wrote: »

Good to see an interesting sociological discussion has been hijacked by racist drivel.

What sociological discussion. Ireland is white has a very small % of none whites. Ergo no white privilege as you are competing with other whites.


Asian 1.3%, black 1.1%, mixed 1.1%, unspecified 1.6%

darkpagandeath

Irish Guitarist wrote: »

What a load of balls. The worst examples of racism he can come up with is someone being verbally abused on Twitter and someone else applying for a job under two different names and only getting the job under the 'whiter' name. The latter sounds like someone looking to find trouble.

"Fake Jew's ?"

gw80

Hollister11 wrote: »

We are a very racist country (behind people's back) to their face, we as nice as pie.

That's a load of bull,
What some people might call racist is just Irish people being Irish, some people hate people from the next town over it, no matter what shade of skin they have,
I think it's a kind of tribal thing left over from years ago,
Just look at some threads in here when the Dublin, Culchie thing kicks off, or the cork, and the rest of Ireland banter starts, it's mostly harmless and nobody on either side gets all triggered and offended,
People will just have to accept a certain amount of it if they live here, it's usually not personal,
I do realise there are real racists in Ireland but it's usually uneducated idiots just copying what they see on TV,
I don't think there is as much of the kind of racism that would stop people getting jobs or living uncomfortably in this country

The_Valeyard

A Little Pony wrote: »

White privilege is absolute bollocks made up by cultural marxists who hate Western values and freedoms and most importantly, white people. Ireland for the Irish is what I say.

Paul McCartney agrees

Lavinia

CrabRevolution wrote: »

I don't understand how you can be privileged if you're 95% of the population.

By not giving the same rights to the other 5 percent of the population. That's how.

gw80

Lavinia wrote: »

By not giving the same rights to the other 5 percent of the population. That's how.

What rights do they not have?

Austria!

darkpagandeath wrote: »

How can you have white privilege in a country that is white ?

You can almost only have it in a country that's mainly white.

Christ you guys seem to take this privilege thing very personal. I've got white privilege, it's nothing to be guilty over. Just seems you won't be treated with suspicion over your background, won't ever worry about racism, there's evidence for a hiring bias for people with african sounding names for example.

myshirt

Don't the majority of the Montserrat population have strong west cork accents?