Christmas Tensions

unknowngirl!!

Apologies for a long post. I'd love some advice or opinion from people not involved in my situation.

I come from a very close family of five. We've always got along great and enjoy each other's company. Almost five years ago my father died at 52. It devastated us all. It was particularly difficult for my mother - he was her only ever boyfriend, she had never held hands, kissed or been with anyone else - they were inseparable. Each year since has been a struggle.

I am the oldest of three children and the only girl. To support my mother I moved home to be close to help her through the difficult times. My parents were always there for us as children so this was a small gesture on my behalf. I am incredibly lucky have the parents I have.

18 months ago I met someone and we started a long distance relationship (I'm 27). Being a teacher we could see each other often during holidays so I started spending a lot of time in France. I was offered a good job opportunity there this year and moved to France in August and now live in Paris with my French boyfriend. This has been an incredibly difficult time for my mother and I struggle with guilt every day. She told me recently she's barely keeping her ahead above water and she's feeling worse everyday. (She's 51).

My dilemma is what am I going to do for Christmas? My boyfriend is not close to his family and they live further away in France than the time it takes to fly to Ireland. I hoped I could come home for Christmas with my boyfriend but my mother does not want him around my home house the 25/26th of December. She wants this time for just her, me and my brothers as she feels it's difficult enough as it is without bringing someone else into the house. As a result I haven't booked flights and they are getting more expensive by the day.

If my boyfriend doesn't come he will be alone in France and I'd feel terrible to think of him like that! I've tried to compromise with my mother but she has said either he comes in the days before or the days after Christmas but not the 25/26th. I've tried to be firm saying that things can't stay the same forever but it has ended up in huge arguments and her saying I'm selfish and how she is disappointed in me in how I'm adding to her stress etc.

I don't know what to do. I'm torn between my Mam and leaving my boyfriend. Can anybody see any solution? Am I being selfish to want my boyfriend to come with me or should I be making allowances for my mother and be doing what makes Christmas easier for her. All advice appreciated.

zl1whqvjs75cdy

Hi op. Tough one, Christmas is always difficult when there's someone missing from the house. I would suggest your mother is being unreasonable, but is probably not in a mental state to recognise this. If it were me I would fly to Ireland on the 22nd (or whatever day you had planned to come over) and stay in a hotel locally with your boyfriend. Then stay with your mother the 24th onwards. I know it adds expense but it may help minimise the stress for your mother. If your long term plan is to come home every Christmas with the boyfriend you need to set some kind of precedent with your mother. She doesn't have a monopoly on who's in the country in the week leading up to Christmas.

Of course the others side of this is that there'll probably be a row over whatever you do. Christmas is always a tense time, so be expecting some snide remarks etc. This may make your boyfriend uncomfortable and sour relationships between him and your mother.

I know that wasn't particularly helpful, but that's my view if the situation anyway.

unknowngirl!!

Thanks for your reply.

I got some money when my dad died and built a small one-bed apartment on my parent's land with it. It's literally just behind my home house.

I suggested that we'd stay in the apartment and that my BF could keep his distance when needed but she didn't like this idea. She said it would make things more awkward etc. How would it work if we were in one house doing one thing and he was there, I'd neither be with one nor the other etc.

I'd love to do something like that and keep everyone happy. I kind of hoped it would just be a natural transition to a new dynamic but my mother thinks she'd feel isolated and unwanted if I had my boyfriend with us.

I'm so confused as to what to do!

(PS my mother isn't a mean or bad person. She is just someone who is hurting and lonely. I don't mean to complain and I'm trying my best to understand!)

Meauldsegosha

Did your mam get any bereavement counselling when your dad died? She's only 51 so has many years ahead of her she can't expect you and your brothers you put your lives on hold.

I lost my dad six years ago so I understand that Christmas is a tough time. And while my mam and I always remember my dad we don't shut ourselves away from everyone at Christmas time. Last year we went to my partner parents house and my mam had a great time.

If I was you I would bring your boyfriend to Ireland and stay in your apartment. On Christmas morning you and your family could have a few hours together, visit your dads grave or go to mass. Then your boyfriend could join you for Christmas dinner.

Rubberchikken

I'll also ask has your mom spoken to a professional since your dad passed?
It seems like she's unable to move on. I can understand that she'd like christmas, which is a very tough time for so many, to be just family but she needs to see that for some life has moved on.
It doesnt mean you've forgotten your dad, but i'm guessing he wouldnt have wanted her or his childrens lives to remain at a standhill. For her to move on she might need help.
Good luck

Big Bag of Chips

I think the problem is, your mam is 5 years older, which in terms of her life isn't much. But 5 years in your lives is huge. Who's to know, in another 5 years you could be married with kids, as could your brothers. Will she still be insisting that it's just the 5 of you for Christmas.

I don't know what you could suggest to be honest. The practical thing is that you come home to your apartment for the few days. I think once your bf is here, she will include him. And maybe she will soften and realise there's no reason not to. I think from a distance it's very easy to say no. How big/small is the apartment? Is you doing Christmas dinner and your mam and brothers coming to you an option?

I think you're damned if you do and damned if you don't really. What has your bf done other years? How does he feel about the situation? I think you need to take a stand with your mam. You're an adult now, living your own adult life. Maybe you could tell her you are coming home and having your own dinner together and you will call to visit afterwards? The day will come when the 5 of you aren't all sitting around together on Christmas Day. Whenever it comes it will be too soon for your mam. But you have to make a decision on what feels right for yourself.

Another option is to stay in France for Christmas and both travel home for New Year. Maybe invite your mam over? I know life is difficult for her, but by throwing out a few suggestions it might get her thinking outside the "traditions". It's your life and your relationship. Much as you love your mother and respect her, you can't live your life for her.

Lavinia

TBH your mother is just behaving unreasonably. I suppose I wouldn't go home for Christmas in these circumstances and would stay with my bf in Paris.

looksee

I also think your mother is being unreasonable. Life has to go on, she cannot expect everyone to put their lives on hold for her; families have to split up at Christmas eventually - usually so that couples can share themselves between both families, or because it is way more reasonable for couples with children to stay at home and have a family Christmas themselves while the children are young. It has to be give and take by everyone.

I am saying this as someone who will be having my first Christmas without my husband this year. I was never a great Christmas enthusiast anyway, and we had already got some alternative routines established, but your mother seems to need some counselling at this stage, though I suspect she would not agree to it. The alternative is some tough love, you have your own situation to consider and there has to be some cooperation and good will on all sides. Refuse to fight with her, go back to your apartment and ignore the muttering and complaining. It will be easier in the future.

Fakediamond

What if you were now married to your boyfriend? Would you be expected to leave your husband behind to spend Christmas alone in France?

I think your mother needs to embrace your boyfriend as a family member now, especially as he is not close to his own, there's really no other alternative.

Austria!

Lavinia wrote: »

TBH your mother is just behaving unreasonably. I suppose I wouldn't go home for Christmas in these circumstances and would stay with my bf in Paris.

Your mother is being unreasonable, but I think being there for your mother right now is more important that enforcing perfect logic in your relationship.
If you think it's really beneficial for her for you to be there on your own, then I would do that. But you will have to discuss this for the future, because this can't be a recurring thing.

One thing to consider is how your bf feels. Maybe he really couldn't care less about Xmas, and understands completely about you going away, or maybe he'd be very disappointed. We're not in a position to judge him or your relationship with him.

looksee

Austria! wrote: »

Your mother is being unreasonable, but I think being there for your mother right now is more important that enforcing perfect logic in your relationship.
If you think it's really beneficial for her for you to be there on your own, then I would do that. But you will have to discuss this for the future, because this can't be a recurring thing.

One thing to consider is how your bf feels. Maybe he really couldn't care less about Xmas, and understands completely about you going away, or maybe he'd be very disappointed. We're not in a position to judge him or your relationship with him.

The OP's mother has been widowed for almost five years. She has had support for those years, now the OP is trying to make arrangements for her own life. If her mother gets away with these really rather unreasonable demands for only having her own family around her she will continue to do it.

Austria!

looksee wrote: »

If her mother gets away with these really rather unreasonable demands for only having her own family around her she will continue to do it.

If you mean she'll continue to demand it I addressed that in my post. I think it would be a lot better if she had lots of time to get used to the idea that next xmas won't be like this if you tell her while she's still enjoying this xmas.

Her mother says she's doing worse every day and barely keeping her head above water. If you want to see that as exaggeration you can, and you may well be right, but I'm choosing to believe it because that's the safest thing to do.

seefin

I think you're moving to France was like another bereavement for your mother and highlighted how alone she is. Upto then you're living near the house cushioned the blow somewhat whereaas this has brought the reality to the fore. I dunno, this year, I'd go home.and leave my boyfriend to fend for himself for a week and give your mom time to adjust but make it clear that this the following years will be different. A year can make a big difference so hopefully by Xmas 2017 your mother will have had time to adjust to your moving away. It's traumatic for all parents when their kids move on but especially so for your mom .

LegacyUser

At stage your father died 5 years ago. You said in your post - She told me recently she's barely keeping her ahead above water and she's feeling worse everyday. (She's 51).

She is being very unreasonable.

The next time you speak to her and she starts on going on like this I would say the following to her - Mam your 51 not 90 and Dad died 5 years ago. I am not listing to you moaning or your argurements any more about Christmas. I would like my boyfreind to come home with me but I know you won't allow this.

I know it was hard when Dad died but he would not like to hear you talking like this to me.
You can't expect me and the boys to come home at Christmas with out our boyfreinds or girlfriends. Mam it is time you got some counselling.

I would then tell her I will be chatting to - name a bossy sister of her's or your father's or one of her friends. I will be telling them I can't bring x home with me as you wont allow it and how next year I might not bother to come home.

Your mother need to hear from someone around her own age that if she keeps going like this she will spend every Christmas on her own.

I have a friend of mine who mother was older than yours when her husband got sick and died. This woman would not have much outside interests. Her daughter was blunt with her when she started fussing/refused to go out or move on with things. She said it was not easy for Mam when he died as they were a couple for a long time. I had to push mam to meet freinds and go to things but long term it was better for her.
I meet her mother recently and she is happy now again.

beks101

From a rational perspective, your mother is being unreasonable, but that's easy for us all to say as we haven't lost our life partner and dealt with the emotional fallout of it all. Christmas time can be the worst part of a bereavement and it sounds to me like she isn't coping with her loss at all and is trying to protect the family dynamic as it's all she has to cling on to.

Has she met your boyfriend? Is he a familiar figure around the house? Does she know him and get on with him? Bringing someone new into the family at such a symbolic time is a big thing when you're faced with that awful empty chair at Christmas and if they haven't really properly met and bonded, that is probably adding to her reluctance. To you, he is the biggest part of your life but to her, you and your brothers are that and he is a relative stranger that you met pretty recently and on top of your recent emigration, it's all just a bit too much for her.

I'd echo what others are saying about bereavement counselling for your mother. That should absolutely be the priority for all of you right now. Change is going to happen - it's a part of life - and your mother needs to learn to embrace it as yourself and your siblings will all be moving up and out in the coming years.

But for now - how important is Christmas to your boyfriend? Would he be deeply hurt if he couldn't spend it with you and came to Ireland a few days later to spend the holidays/NY instead? Christmas is huge to me, but my boyfriend could take or leave it, often ends up working it anyway, so I usually go home to Ireland and he follows or I return for New Year's.

Not that I would endorse placating your mother, but I do think a bit of sensitivity is important at such a difficult time. She is your mother after all, and she is clearly in a bad way. If that's an option, look at it, and if not, I'd go the route of coming back and staying in your apartment together and playing it by ear. Perhaps all the talk and overthinking about it has your mother's back up, but the reality of him being in the house would be a lot less daunting for her to face.

iguana

Austria! wrote: »

I think it would be a lot better if she had lots of time to get used to the idea that next xmas won't be like this if you tell her while she's still enjoying this xmas.

It's October. She does have plenty of time to get used to the idea that her daughter's boyfriend will be staying in her daughter's apartment for a few days, two months from now. She doesn't even have to have him in her home if it's too hard for her. She's actually dictating that her daughter can't have a guest in her own separate dwelling. She has 60+ days to get used to the idea, she doesn't have to like it, she doesn't have to spend time with the man, she just has to come to terms with the idea that her daughter will spend a little bit of time in the company of another person she loves.

Penalty

While appreciating the sensitive nature of the situation I think people need to consider this is 5 years later.

If this was the first or 2nd year it could be forgiven. The reality is if the OP placates her mother now it just makes things harder in the long run.

While never forgetting her husband it's time to move on and live your lives - I would imagine that's what her father would want.

OP what are your siblings situations ? Are they single - what's their opinion on this.

looksee

Austria! wrote: »

If you mean she'll continue to demand it I addressed that in my post. I think it would be a lot better if she had lots of time to get used to the idea that next xmas won't be like this if you tell her while she's still enjoying this xmas.

Her mother says she's doing worse every day and barely keeping her head above water. If you want to see that as exaggeration you can, and you may well be right, but I'm choosing to believe it because that's the safest thing to do.

If her mother is as bad as that after four/five years of support, then she is in serious need of counselling or medical help. I do not see it as an exaggeration, but I see the demands as being unreasonable.

I cannot in reality see her mother going into even more of a depression because the OP's partner is in the OP's apartment; having her daughter close (even if on her daughter's own terms) should compensate for that. She definitely needs help, but just giving in to her demands - which border on blackmail - is not the way to do it.

I suggest you be vague and just bring your partner along and install him in the apartment, OP. I rather think that the idea of him being there will bring out your mother's sense of 'what is right and sociable' and if introduced gradually he will end up welcome in the house.

LegacyUser

OP I've got pretty similar background as yourself - dad died suddenly at 51/oldest child who moved home to look after our mum/after 4 years I had to get my life back and moved overseas. The difference is while my mother had her down points she got help and while none of us are every going to be over losing a loved one we are able to live our lives.

If this was the first or second xmas after your father passing I would understand your mothers need to have just you and your siblings around but as it's been five years you have to expect things in your lives to change (as they have). I understand the guilt - I'm the oldest child to but you need to have your life. Wanting some time with just family I can understand- an hour or two on xmas day but two full days is just not realistic for you all to lock yourselves away.

Your mother is not being healthy in how she is dealing with grief and is being unfair to you putting all the pressure on you. I would discuss the issue firstly with your BF - he may not want to come to Ireland and deal with conflict so you shouldn't force him to come just to make your mother confront the issue. Second discuss the issue with your siblings. Something I found hard was how I felt my siblings had just left me to deal with everything. They need to see they will have lives too - partners they want to bring home etc so you need to approach your mother as a group to talk openly.

Daisy78

Penalty wrote: »

While appreciating the sensitive nature of the situation I think people need to consider this is 5 years later.

If this was the first or 2nd year it could be forgiven. The reality is if the OP placates her mother now it just makes things harder in the long run.

It seems like she (Mum) is clinging to any semblance of what she considers to be normal family life, as best you can when a family member passes on. The grief is relieved somewhat by maintaining the family unit without the intrusion of outsiders. It's a comfort blanket of sorts. She could easily be carrying on like this in another 5 years if something isn't said.

Of course she is being completely unreasonable and this has wider implications for family dynamics down the line. At some point the apron strings have to be cut. If I was you OP i would have a chat with my boyfriend, explain the situation and the difficulty you are in. As someone else said it may not be that big of a deal for him and he may be happy to make alternative arrangements for this year. I would agree to keep it family only on the understanding that it will not happen the following year. If she can see that you are making an effort this year she may be more accommodating next year. You shouldn't have to put up with this carry on but in order to maintain relations you may need to concede to her this year.

WhoWhatWhere

I understand bereavement is difficult, especially when it's the loss of a husband/wife, however for five years (five Christmas days) later, it's incredibly unreasonable of your mother. I'd personally lay out the situation. That either your boyfriend and you go, or you stay in Paris. It's just not on to make you decide, and if she won't budge stay in Paris, for no other reason than your boyfriend will be on his own if you leave but even if you stay your mother won't be

unknowngirl!!

Thanks to everyone for the replies, they are really appreciated.

What has resonated most with me is the idea that by moving abroad now it's finally hit my mother how alone she is. It's like she is back to square one of the grieving process. I feel very responsible so that's why I'm very conscious of how she's feeling.

The year my dad died my Mam did a six week bereavement course. That's all she has done though and has never spoken or seen anyone else. I tried to bring it up yesterday about her seeing someone, I even suggested we see someone together, but she wasn't impressed and was angry with the idea. We ended up arguing and she's not talking to me now. I'be asked my brother to try talk to her about this too. Other than that I've no idea how to get around her to see someone?

She has met my BF twice, for a few days both times. I am in Ireland at the moment for a week on midterm. The initial plan was for my BF to come with me for the first three days and then for me to spend the next four days alone with my mother. This didn't go to plan though as a few weeks ago she said she wanted to spend time with me alone and it wouldn't be the same if my BF was there too - again I can understand this to a certain extent. We had to cancel his flights, lost €120, and I came on my own. I went with this as I figure she's still in the adjustment period of me moving abroad.

My two brothers are easy going and say I need to make a decision myself as they see both sides of the situation. Both have Irish girlfriends who go back to their own homes so it suits them all.

My boyfriend is very understanding and I think ultimately if I had to leave him behind he'd be ok, but I'd feel terrible. He was alone last year and I felt bad so it'll be worse again this year. I keep thinking if it was the other way around and he left me alone I'd be disgusted!

I suggested yesterday, after reading some posts, that I'd come mid December on my own and that my BF would join us the 23rd - 27th and stay in the apt. I said I'd stay Christmas Eve at home and have the morning / mass / grave just with my family and then have my BF to join us for dinner in the afternoon. It didn't go down well though and the response was 'Sure do what you want it's what you always do anyway.' We're not talking now and I'm going back tomorrow, what a disaster!

Lavinia

unknowngirl!! wrote: »

I said I'd stay Christmas Eve at home and have the morning / mass / grave just with my family and then have my BF to join us for dinner in the afternoon. It didn't go down well though and the response was 'Sure do what you want it's what you always do anyway.' We're not talking now and I'm going back tomorrow, what a disaster!

Jeez, what a control freak, pardon me saying. But if you are dancing along then good luck with that.

WhoWhatWhere

You need to nip this in the bud it sounds like. She's just looking for total control, wants everything to stay the same. I wouldn't have it you have to start as you mean to go on. If your mother is too stubborn to accept your partner how will this carry on in the future? What if you get married and have kids, when you go to Ireland to visit granny is she gonna said you come but your husband can't? A separate wedding perhaps? Tell her outright what's the situation. This is your life, your partner and you will not be hiding him away to appease mammy, this surpasses grief in my opinion. As I say, this isn't the first Christmas since your dad passed away, it's the fifth. She has to get over it and move on. She wants it all to be the same, it will never be that though. I don't want to speak out of turn, but I worry her upset is at you bringing a man to her house whom isn't your father. If your brothers have girlfriends and that's fine it could be it.

intheclouds

OP your mother sounds like a rude disrespectful control freak who is using a 5 year past bereavement to get her own way.

I'm absolutely shocked at how dismissive she is about the emotional importance of your relationship and how she has ye all dancing to her unreasonable tune!

There comes a point where apron strings are long past cutting. She either accepts your relationship and includes your partner at Xmas if she wants you there or you should not go. I can't believe you are even suggesting that he comes over then sits alone while you dance attendance on her, how absolutely awful that would make him feel to be treated as a second class citizen!

Your mother is selfish. Really selfish. You only enable her by giving into it. It actually validates her behaviour when you do things like change flights so her precious company is not tainted by the presence of your partner. So stop doing it. It's disrespectful to your partner.

Your mother is only 51, she will be controlling you for the next 30 years if you let her. Take back control, now.

iguana

unknowngirl!! wrote: »

The initial plan was for my BF to come with me for the first three days and then for me to spend the next four days alone with my mother. This didn't go to plan though as a few weeks ago she said she wanted to spend time with me alone and it wouldn't be the same if my BF was there too - again I can understand this to a certain extent. We had to cancel his flights, lost €120, and I came on my own. I went with this as I figure she's still in the adjustment period of me moving abroad.

This is very telling to me. You went along with what she wanted for this trip and now she is dictating the next trip. She isn't being reasonable or willing to adjust for the future. There is no way you can go along with what she wants this Christmas on the proviso that next year will be different. If you do what she wants at Christmas, the odds are she will expect you to do it her way next time. You need to decide what you want to do and do that but don't let her dictate.

Call me Al

Sorry but five years on she's being terribly unfair to you and very disrespectful to your partner who, by the sounds of it, is extremely patient when it comes to your mother.
She's getting her own way because you're letting her and by the sounds of things, with manipuative comments and a habit of shutting down conversations like you've just mentioned, she has no intention of changing.

Personally if I were in your shoes I'd be with my partner either here or there for Christmas Day, if that's what you both would like, and I wouldn't accept my mother dictating the terms or banning him from the house for the duration. You have to carry on and live your life.

LirW

OP, my family had to deal with a VERY similar situation, although it was my granny. My granny is a bright woman, turned 80 this year and lost her lifelong partner exactly 3 years ago.
The first christmas was very hard for all of us (we are a small family and quite close to each other, especially us granddaughters with her).
She couldn't take it, that people were happily together with their spouses around her. A few days after my grandfather died I lost a friend who killed himself. So it wasn't a happy christmas at all. But she couldn't take the fact that someone else was grieving beside her. All in all it was understandable tho, because she lost him just 6 weeks before christmas.

Your mothers attitude reminds me a lot of hers during the first year. She tried to make her two daughters feeling guilty because of her loneliness, she started to despise my mother's and aunt's spouses. She even went so far that she suddenly acted she is absolutely unable to do anything on her own and it's now on her daughters to look after her. They both went with it until a certain point was reached. This was the point where she tried to guilt one of them into moving into the enormous house she's living in on her own now.

Then it all crashed. They did make it clear (and believe me it was not in the nicest possible way) to my granny that both of them have no problems to help and be there, but their own lives are going on as well, they have family and houses they live in and it's just not possible to stop their own worlds because hers crashed. Yes, my granny was very upset. But my mother and her sister didn't give her up, they just made their own boundaries clear.

She eventually started to cool down and now 3 years after her husbands death she's a new person. She misses him dearly but she got over her grief and moved on. Sometimes she complains about being lonely but she keeps herself occupied and comes along.

Ask yourself the question: How far can you personally go? Is it, after 5 years, just ignoring the fact that your life goes on, enough? Just because you keep on doing your thing, doesn't mean you abandon her. I do think it's time to clearly communicate your needs too.
Something like this can keep go on: You want to marry, you want kids etc etc. This also could be seen as a very selfish move.

Maybe also talking to your brothers about mentioning counselling. You can't bend around her desire of something that's not there anymore for the rest of your life.

Good luck, OP!

nikkibikki

I think LirW hit the nail on the head. First thing that jumped out at me was that she is kind of jealous that you have someone and she doesn't but I couldn't think of a way to articulate it. It's like she is trying to drive a wedge between you and your partner so you'll move back home.

It's completely untrue that you always suit yourself. Tell her that. She needs to hear a few home truths. She is responsible for her own life, you are responsible for yours. She is being very selfish, she should be supportive of your relationship. At this stage, your boyfriend should be part of the family.

Talk to her, tell her all the sacrifices you've made for her. She needs to get off her arse now and get socialising, bingo, book clubs, walking clubs, whatever. If you can't get the words out, write her a letter but face to face is best.

FTA69

I think if your boyfriend came to Ireland your mother would make it very clear he's not welcome, and that would be an awful position for him to be in - alone in a foreign country surrounded by people who dislike him, dependant on their hospitality as well. That wouldn't be fair to him at all. Your mother is being controlling and unreasonable.

I'd stay in France with himself to be honest. It might be the wake up call your mam needs in order to realise that she has to cop on a bit in future.

bronte

To be honest I would stay in France after being spoken to like that.
It is really unfair of her to say you always suit yourself after you giving up so much of your life to support her. Talk about a slap in the face.
Even if you suit her now , it still won't be enough for her.
You should feel no guilt anymore, you have a life to live too.

At most, I would return home to Ireland for a short stay over christmas with the boyfriend. Stay in a hotel. Spend half of Christmas day with him, half with family. If she complains or starts guilt-tripping ,point out that she didn't want you staying in your own flat so you had to stay in a hotel and shorten the trip due to the extra expense. If she still complains then you know not to bother coming back next year.
Your mother needs to take responsibility for her own life. She is treating you like a substitute partner and using guilt to manipulate you.
She should have respect for what you've already done for her.
Have Christmas on your own terms and don't neglect your boyfriend, he sounds like a very reasonable guy.

unknowngirl!!

A quick update. Things aren't great as I decided to try and have it out with my mother before leaving. I've decided to go with the idea of coming home mid Dec when I get my holidays and then have my boyfriend join me for five days 23rd - 27th. I'm going to book the flights do there is no room for changing minds or uncertainty. I'll do as much as possible with my mother when I'm on my own and then try balance the two when my BF comes.

I feel like my relationship with my mother has hit rock bottom. The conversation ended with her saying that I could do what I wanted but not to think I could have the best of both worlds and domineer Christmas and bully her into anything she doesn't want. She said I was to do what I wanted but to remember that she'd do her own thing too and I wasn't to interfere - I'm not really sure what she meant, I think it was an empty threat..

I'm back to France in the morning and have another week off. My mother is also annoyed I'm not staying in Ireland - she says if she was in my position she'd stay and it shows how alone she is and that I don't care. I'm getting the impression she doesn't like who I am and it's sad. I don't know whether she'll cool off with some distance. I'm glad to have some space, I feel exhausted from the stress and worry of the past week!

unknowngirl!!

bronte wrote: »

Have Christmas on your own terms and don't neglect your boyfriend, he sounds like a very reasonable guy.

He is and has been great! Part of the reason I'm so reluctant to leave him alone is because I don't want to take him for granted and jeopardise out relationship. I'd hate to push him away when he has been so patient and understanding.

I'm more than happy to spend Christmas in Ireland with my family, in fact I'd hate to be away! I just want to include him too. When I put it like that I realise how selfish it sounds as I want time best of everything. Hopefully things will just work out naturally once he comes..

bronte

unknowngirl!! wrote: »

I feel like my relationship with my mother has hit rock bottom. The conversation ended with her saying that I could do what I wanted but not to think I could have the best of both worlds and domineer Christmas and bully her into anything she doesn't want.

This is complete projection! She's the one domineering people!!
I think you're doing the right thing and in your shoes I'd limit my time with her as it does nobody any good being around that kind of negativity.

You're entitled to live your own life, don't let anyone guilt trip you about it.
If your mother had any respect for what you've done already, she'd be far more reasonable with you. Put in whatever effort you're happy with, but don't neglect your relationship with your boyfriend. Be prepared for her to never be happy and don't fall into the trap of trying to please her.
I wonder if she's this demanding with your siblings? Sometimes one child has all the demands placed on them, usually the eldest female.
Don't set yourself on fire to keep someone else warm.

bronte

unknowngirl!! wrote: »

He is and has been great! Part of the reason I'm so reluctant to leave him alone is because I don't want to take him for granted and jeopardise out relationship. I'd hate to push him away when he has been so patient and understanding.

I'm more than happy to spend Christmas in Ireland with my family, in fact I'd hate to be away! I just want to include him too. When I put it like that I realise how selfish it sounds as I want time best of everything. Hopefully things will just work out naturally once he comes..

You aren't being selfish at all! It's not too much to ask to have your mother welcome someone who's important in your life. Particularly when you've been so kind to her in the past. I'd wager she's resentful of him for taking her "care-giver" away from her. Bizarre but it does happen. Look after your relationship, we all need supportive people in our lives!
So sorry you're going through this but stick to your guns!

meeeeh

I wouldn't be dragging your bf into the war with your mother. He's not Irish, chances are he won't care about Christmas. So in my opinion you can spend Christmas with your mother (and she can dictate who she wants to cook dinner for) or you can stay in France with your bf. I would choose second option. Your mother is very possessive but it's you who has to deal with it not your bf. If I were your bf I would way prefer to spend Christmas on my own than have dinner where I am clearly not welcome. Did you even ask your bf what he wants to do and explained the situation clearly?

unknowngirl!!

meeeeh wrote: »

I wouldn't be dragging your bf into the war with your mother. He's not Irish, chances are he won't care about Christmas. So in my opinion you can spend Christmas with your mother (and she can dictate who she wants to cook dinner for) or you can stay in France with your bf. Personally I would choose second option. Your mother is very possessive but it's you who has to deal with it not your bf. Personally I would way prefer to spend Christmas on my own than have dinner where I am clearly not welcome. Did you even ask your bf what he wants to do and explained the situation clearly?

Of course we've spoken about it. Initially it was him who brought it up by asking when we were booking flights to Ireland for Christmas. I went through the whole situation and we half agreed he'd stay in France but he was disappointed to be alone again after being alone last year while I stayed in Ireland.

Over the last few weeks we've talked about it again on several occasions and at night when lying together we've said how it would be sad to be apart and not to share a nice time together with my friends and extended family. As a result of those conversations I said I'd talk to my Mam and see what she thought..

He doesn't take it personal or feel unwanted as he understands my Mam is in a bad place. His own father suffered from depression and commit suicide so he is very practical and understanding when it comes to my mother. At times he thinks I need to be more patient because he thinks it's just my mother looking for attention and wanting to hold on to her 'mother' role for as long as possible.

I'm not doing the Irish thing of beating around the bush and pretending everything is perfect and that he'll be the guest of honour. He is more than aware of my mother's hostility towards him.

meeeeh

But does he care about Christmas (the day) or does he care about spending holidays with you? The reason I am asking is I'm not Irish but I do come from catholic family or at least my parents are religious. The height of celebration for us would be a nice dinner on Christmas eve if we were around if not who cares. Since I moved to Ireland I never spent Christmas with my parents but I spent quite quickly few New Year's with them. I don't think Christmas is as important in most other countries as it is in Ireland.

Another option it would be for him to fly in around 26th and then you two can do holiday stuff in the week after Christmas. I just think the Christmas with your mother and your bf is too much hassle. Btw I think you've done more than enough for your mother and you should be first taking care of your own happiness. It might be also better if one of your brother's would be first battling this with your mother. They live closer to her and have more opportunity to fall out with her and more importantly make up with her. It's a lot easier to ignore phone calls than someone who lives near and your argument with your mother could go on for a lot longer.

Aufbau

A view from the other side - my daughter brought her English boyfriend home for Xmas a few years ago. I hated it. I didn't really know him and he was like a sore thumb in the house. If he had been a visitor for Xmas dinner it would have been fine, I'd have enjoyed it, it would have added to the sense of occasion. But a stranger hanging around the house coming up to Xmas was really awkward, and specially on Xmas day and the day after when we lounge around just being US together. It spoilt the whole Xmas for me - and I wasn't grieving for any reason.

You've only started living with your boyfriend 3 months ago, that doesn't qualify him as a family member. Bring him to Ireland surely, but before or after Xmas? And do tell your mother that if you're both still together next year that you'd like him to be there for Xmas.

Separately, I'm hearing strongly how responsible you feel for your mother's happiness and now your boyfriend's too. And I'm hearing how stressed it's making you. I think you might benefit a lot more than your mum from someone to talk to - about your dad dying, about caring so much for your mum, about moving country, and the whole thing. I think you need to take care of yourself for a while. You're carrying way too much trouble on your back.

Lavinia

Aufbau wrote: »

You've only started living with your boyfriend 3 months ago

But they are together a year and a half.... you obviously missed that

witchgirl26

OP I can understand your situation and how difficult it is. My father died 8 years ago and I was the last one living at home with my mam. When I first moved out (3 years after), there was a bit of guilt directed at me when I wasn't always free for dinners etc. I was only up the road but I can appreciate that being magnified when you move to a different county.

The unfortunate thing is that you do have to continue to live your life. Your mam had wonderful years with your dad but essentially by making you put her first over your relationship every time means that she's denying you the opportunity to have something similar. I'm not saying never put her first but she needs to respect the time you need with your other half.

There will come a point soon enough where some siblings may not be spending Christmas at home as life moves on. We have that but we always make sure there's someone with my mam or else that she goes to someone's house for the day.

nikkibikki

Aufbau wrote:

Separately, I'm hearing strongly how responsible you feel for your mother's happiness and now your boyfriend's too. And I'm hearing how stressed it's making you. I think you might benefit a lot more than your mum from someone to talk to - about your dad dying, about caring so much for your mum, about moving country, and the whole thing. I think you need to take care of yourself for a while. You're carrying way too much trouble on your back.

Agree with this part of your post but not the rest. The OP has a separate flat next to her mothers house, this is where her boyfriend would be staying, but the mother isn't happy about this either.

So, your daughter having her boyfriend home with her for Christmas presumably made her very happy, and his presence ruined Christmas for you.

iguana

Aufbau wrote: »

If he had been a visitor for Xmas dinner it would have been fine, I'd have enjoyed it, it would have added to the sense of occasion. But a stranger hanging around the house coming up to Xmas was really awkward, and specially on Xmas day and the day after when we lounge around just being US together. It spoilt the whole Xmas for me - and I wasn't grieving for any reason.

The OP has her own apartment in Ireland and she and the boyfriend would be staying there, so your situation of having the guy hanging about on the sofa doesn't really apply. She would just like the boyfriend to be in the house for Christmas dinner, which is exactly what you are saying you'd have enjoyed.

nikkibikki

OP, would your Dad want you to be putting your young life on hold or would he want you to do whatever it is that makes you happy?

LynnGrace

OP, I think you are doing your very best with a difficult situation. I agree that it sounds like your mam needs some help, perhaps bereavement counselling. Of course it's a tough time for her. It's a tough time for you also, and your siblings, losing your dad suddenly, and at an early age.

Just a thought, is there anyone to whom your mam might be prepared to listen - not specifically about this situation - but more generally about how things are for her since your dad's death. Maybe a family member e.g a sister / brother? Or a friend that might be able to broach the subject with her, encourage her to perhaps attend her GP.

As any of us who have been through bereavement know only too well, grief is not an exact science. There is no right or wrong way about it. Life has to go on though, hard and all as it is to pick up the pieces. It has to be done.

All the best, I think what you have done is the best that you can do in a very difficult situation.

Rekop dog

As clearly unreasonable as she's being I'd be one of the few who'd go out of my way to appease her. Rightly or wrongly she's very uncomfortable with the idea of him being there at that time, and her experience will be significantly worsened, no slight on his character, it's her issue but an issue regardless. From her perspective I'd imagine some of her fondest memories were of the 5 of you together at Xmas, and is she that wrong to want to get lost in those memories for a couple of days? The burden of entertaining, or even guilt of knowing he's in the apartment next door would ruin this for her I'd imagine. You and your brothers sound like you've all got happy lives now, good relationships ect, and you'll go back to those after Xmas wheras your mother will remain alone. I'd be giving her a couple of days of peace and happiness in your situation. Your bf should understand, if you're right for each other every day should feel like Christmas anyway so this shouldn't be built into an issue.

In the medium to long term you and your brothers focus with the mother should be to get her more bereavement counselling and more social in general, to a point where meeting strangers isn't a cause of great anxiety.

Magicmatilda

Has your mother always been a domineering person? How was she around partners when your father was alive?

To be honest she is 51, that is not old by any stretch of the imagination, She still has 15 years to retirement age. It is time she got out into the world and started to create a social circle for herself. If she cannot do this due to anxiety or depression or complicated grief then she needs to speak to a therapist. You cannot make her, but you can prioritise yourself and you should.

Honestly if I were you I would stay in France or if you must come home stay for a few days in a hotel and pop in for a few hours on Christmas day with your boyfriend. IF she will not allow him into the house then you don't go either. Your brothers can come and visit you wherever you are. She has dictated enough of your life at this stage.

Dark Phoenix

Op when I was living with my parents my mum drove me insane, I am the eldest and female so maybe as other posters mentioned, that might be why she was hardest on me, I dont know. She was trict as hell, enforced gender rules ( I had to iron my brothers clothes before being allowed out of the house on a weekend as a teenager), and hated not being in control all the time. If I did all she asked I would still be in trouble for not doing things she hadnt asked me to do because 'i shouldnt have to ask, you should just no'. Her own mother is incredibly dictatorial so its no surprise really. Things improved dramatically when I moved out. They improved even more when I just stopped pandering to her demands and stood my ground. There are some things your mother has said to you that sound very like my grandmother now to my mother and my mother to me when I was younger - things like 'selfish' and 'do what you want you always do'. You will never fully please this woman, you have already made too many sacrifices such as cancelling flights the last time. Its ironic as she demands to have exclusive access to you when you are home or on holidays which is incredibly selfish of her, She also is uncompromising and argumentative and then cannot understand why you dont want to spend time with her when this is how she behaves. My dads mother does this she has a meltdown when her family dont spend enough time with her and yet when they call round she behaves so badly and makes everyone so miserable that they dont want to spend more time with her. This is sadly common enough behaviour. Your mum should be encouragign you to make your own life, its very selifsh of her to rely on you to make her happy and to try and hold you back. Dont risk sacrificing your relationship over this. My advice would be stick to your guns - you have made an offer of compromise, I suspect when you stick to it she will back down especially as rant as she might I doubt anyone else will agree with her. The apartment is yours so stay there and when your boyfriend is with you if she acts up well spend the time with him in the apartment instead of in the house with her, your mum will already have had you to herself this month and for the middle of december. She also has two sons who surely can spend a bit of time entertaining her, they need to have your back a bit more on this. You have made every effort to compromise, its five years since your dad died so your mum cannot expect to dictate everything 100% her way, its ridiculous

unknowngirl!!

Thanks for your post from the other perspective. It's exactly the sentiment my mother is expressing - particularly the idea of lounging and chilling in comfort. I can see what you mean.

Aufbau wrote: »

You've only started living with your boyfriend 3 months ago, that doesn't qualify him as a family member. Bring him to Ireland surely, but before or after Xmas? And do tell your mother that if you're both still together next year that you'd like him to be there for Xmas.

We were together over six months last Christmas and we didn't see each other. I felt bad for him being on his own but it was too soon to even imagine bringing him home. Now that we're living together I feel like I'm abandoning him to go home and leave him there.

I wouldn't parade him around the place or try and force him on my family as he'd spend 90% of the five days in my own apartment but I'm just looking for some way to see them both on Christmas Day so neither feels like I've chosen the other.

I know what you mean about focussing on the two of them rather than myself but I've come to accept that my life will always be about finding a balance between my loved ones. It's not a huge sacrifice to make its just a bit problematic in terms of logistics for 'big days'.

unknowngirl!!

A huge thank you again to everyone who has taken the time to post here. You wouldn't believe how helpful it is to bounce ideas around and get some outside opinion - it's been therapeutic for me!

In response to some points made my mother hasn't always been like this and she isn't always like this either. It is a very bad time for her and she seems to be becoming bitter and angry. However, she can still be the kindest and most supportive person too. It's not all doom and gloom! I feel like I'm being unjust to her painting a very negative picture.

My dad always looked out and did everything for his family so I don't know what he'd think. He'd probably see it for what it is and tell me to make my own decision as there are two sides to the problem.

I've had a good chat with one of my brothers and he's going to try talk to my Mam about things. She was very close to her sisters but they are starting to lose patience with her as she is constantly in bad form lately and isn't great company. Luckily my Mam has great friends and will meet them one or twice a week. However, there is still a lot of empty time in the week and it's this void which is killing her. She hates the winter and finds the long nights dreadful and lonely. I do feel very sorry for my Mam because I know how full and happy her life was and now it's all slipping away. It's difficult not to feel like I'm causing further trauma being away and trying to change the dynamics of Christmas.

Thanks again to everyone.

coolcat63

Another vote here for either staying in Paris or inviting your boyfriend to YOUR apartment for the holiday. If you don't make a stand now you will find yourself in the same situation for many Christmases to come.
On a wider point can you encourage your mum to join social (or even dating) groups? She's still young (2 years younger than me!) and has a lot of life to live. Would she come and visit you in France? Or think of travelling as a volunteer? Or take in lodgers for company and income?