Staffordshire bull terrier killed our kitten

Ruth098

OK, I need some advice. Yesterday afternoon while out with my husband, i got a phone call from our distraught 17 year old daughter who had just witnessed a neighbours Staffordshire Bull terrier come in our garden and savagely attack and kill our 4 and a half months old kitten. Such an awful and frightening thing for her to see and the whole family is so upset. This kitten was the friendliest kitten going. It would come when you called it, follow you around and so lovable with my own dog and all of us here. When that dog came into our garden,  the kitten didn't even move from where it was sitting, it's so placid. It didn't stand a change against this dog. This dog also attacked our own dog over a year ago....which resulted in going to the vet and our dog having stitches on her leg. At that time the neighbours called round and apologied and seem genuinely upset that this had happened. They don't own the dog, but mind it for another neighbour while she is at work. We decided not to take it any further and she promised the dog would not be let out again unless on a lead, but after what happened yesterday I am so upset....I went round to neighbours who mind the dog, told him what happened and also showed him a photo I had taken of evidence...his response was "Dogs will be dogs...this is what they do...they chase and kill cats....it's in their nature"!!!! I told him this is not the norm. My dog doesn't kill cats....The Staffordshire Bull terrier had come into our property and savagely killed our kitten, what if our two sons age 5 and 6 had been in the garden playing with the cat....God knows what might have happened. I have looked up about Staffordshire Bull terriers and they are on the dangerous dogs act. They are not allowed roam freely ( don't think any dogs are) They have to have a muzzle when out in public. Later last night the owner ( after coming home from work and collecting her dog from our neighbours) called over to our house and was very apologetic. She said her dog is so gentle and she's so upset about what has happened. She said this will never happen again. I told her we contacted the dog warden who gave us three choices......1) He can call out and basically give them a warning. 2) They can be fined. 3) We can make and application to district court under dangerous dog.....
I told her at the moment it's all raw and we are all upset and need time to think.
She promised the dog will always be on a lead from now on....her garden is also fenced in...so he can't get out.
I just don't know what to do.
Do I prosecute? Or do I just get warden to call out and give her a warning. What if this dog gets out again? What if it attacks a child next? Please, any advice on this would be greatly appreciated.

Dtp1979

First off sorry for your loss. I love both cats and dogs.
My own dog, is as friendly and gentle as coujd be, but will kill, and has killed cats,mice, birds, hedgehogs etc that came into her area. She would never fight with another dog though, or snap at our child, although I'd NEVER leave her alone with a child. She never roams outside alone. It's just in some dogs nature I think.
It's very unfortunate what happened your kitten. But maybe this will teach Ye dogs owner to have more vigilance in future. Tell her if you see her dog without a muzzle in future that you'll report her.

PucaMama

Some dogs have a high prey drive. My terrier would kill anything she got. She once killed a bird I had who escaped his cage when I wasn't there.

Attacking and killing what is a prey animal (a cat in your case) doesn't mean the dog will attack a child next. We have a cat. I just never let the two together and no one gets hurt.

JustAThought

There you have it. Dog injured first - apologies & reassurances. Dog still let wander & despite reassurances no muzzle put on it ( as required by law) & dog still let wander. Second pet attacked - killed and daughter left traumatised.

You sound like a nice person but what kind of sign are you waiting for before you tackle this dog & it's behaviour and the owners snd neighbours total lack of compliance with the law for this type of breed? A a dog that they have already made & broken their promises on.

Before the restricted breed loving community get going here lets make it clear - the dog has attacked & injured another, the owners/mjnders were at fault, they made promises which were worthless, they continued to break the law in three different ways - dog not on a short metal lead, dog not under supervision by responsible adult, dog out in public without being muzzled AND on lead. Now a second pet has been injured - rippped to shreds in front of a child. What if the dog had decided to continue and moved onto her? And yes - when the dog attacks again & next time its a child or a humsn or another dog also ripped to shreds you will feel guilty snd you will be partly to blame because you were directly involved in the sequence of events & choose to do nothing. Nobody else can make this complaint to the police - you are responsible.

You may be loving and kjnd snd soft hearted and want goodwill towards your neighbours but neither the owners nor the minders are extending these basic courtesys or any statuatory protections required by law back to you. You are the only one that can make this complaint to the gaurds - Do It. And before another pet is shredded, or another teenager traumatised or a baby mutilated.

Did you read the article these past weeks about the two baby brothers mutilated and killed in the UK by another such 'perfect' dog with a well intending PC owner. One child was a few weeks okd & the other was just two - both attacked in the same instance by the one dog while their mother was there. RIP. Take reaponsibility and go down to the local police. Don't listen to any more hollow words or excuses or allow them to guilt you out of doung ghd right thing. Little dogs, nice pets, trusting little kittens, and loving children have rights too and need to be protected - particularly when ghe owners know and continue to let ghe same dog roam and attack. It has now killed. What are you waiting for? A child?

And I am very sorry about your poor kitten. And your daughter.

PucaMama

JustAThought wrote: »

There you have it. Dog injured first - apologies & reassurances. Dog still let wander & despite reassurances no muzzle put on it ( as required by law) & dog still let wander. Second pet attacked - killed and daughter left traumatised.

You sound like a nice person but what kind of sign are you waiting for before you tackle this dog & it's behaviour and the owners snd neighbours total lack of compliance with the law for this type of breed? A a dog that they have already made & broken their promises on.

Before the restricted breed loving community get going here lets make it clear - the dog has attacked & injured another, the owners/mjnders were at fault, they made promises which were worthless, they continued to break the law in three different ways - dog not on a short metal lead, dog not under supervision by responsible adult, dog out in public without being muzzled AND on lead. Now a second pet has been injured - rippped to shreds in front of a child. What if the dog had decided to continue and moved onto her? And yes - when the dog attacks again & next time its a child or a humsn or another dog also ripped to shreds you will feel guilty snd you will be partly to blame because you were directly involved in the sequence of events & choose to do nothing. Nobody else can make this complaint to the police - you are responsible.

You may be loving and kjnd snd soft hearted and want goodwill towards your neighbours but neither the owners nor the minders are extending these basic courtesys or any statuatory protections required by law back to you. You are the only one that can make this complaint to the gaurds - Do It. And before another pet is shredded, or another teenager traumatised or a baby mutilated.

Did you read the article these past weeks about the two baby brothers mutilated and killed in the UK by another such 'perfect' dog with a well intending PC owner. One was a few weeks okd & the other was just two. Take reaponsibility and go down to the local police. Don't listen to any more hollow words or excuses or allow them to guilt you out of doung ghd right thing. Little dogs, nice pets, trusting little kittens, and loving children have rights too and need to be protected - particularly when ghe owners know and continue to let ghe same dog roam and attack. It has now killed. What are you waiting for? A child?

And I am very sorry about your poor kitten. And your daughter.

Why are you saying pc owners I have a staff and you would find it hard to see me as pc if you knew me. I have 4 dogs and the only one who would bite is the small terrier that everyone thinks is small and cute.

emeldc

JustAThought wrote: »

There you have it. Dog injured first - apologies & reassurances. Dog still let wander & despite reassurances no muzzle put on it ( as required by law) & dog still let wander. Second pet attacked - killed and daughter left traumatised.

You sound like a nice person but what kind of sign are you waiting for before you tackle this dog & it's behaviour and the owners snd neighbours total lack of compliance with the law for this type of breed? A a dog that they have already made & broken their promises on.

Before the restricted breed loving community get going here lets make it clear - the dog has attacked & injured another, the owners/mjnders were at fault, they made promises which were worthless, they continued to break the law in three different ways - dog not on a short metal lead, dog not under supervision by responsible adult, dog out in public without being muzzled AND on lead. Now a second pet has been injured - rippped to shreds in front of a child. What if the dog had decided to continue and moved onto her? And yes - when the dog attacks again & next time its a child or a humsn or another dog also ripped to shreds you will feel guilty snd you will be partly to blame because you were directly involved in the sequence of events & choose to do nothing. Nobody else can make this complaint to the police - you are responsible.

You may be loving and kjnd snd soft hearted and want goodwill towards your neighbours but neither the owners nor the minders are extending these basic courtesys or any statuatory protections required by law back to you. You are the only one that can make this complaint to the gaurds - Do It. And before another pet is shredded, or another teenager traumatised or a baby mutilated.

Did you read the article these past weeks about the two baby brothers mutilated and killed in the UK by another such 'perfect' dog with a well intending PC owner. One child was a few weeks okd & the other was just two - both attacked in the same instance by the one dog while their mother was there. RIP. Take reaponsibility and go down to the local police. Don't listen to any more hollow words or excuses or allow them to guilt you out of doung ghd right thing. Little dogs, nice pets, trusting little kittens, and loving children have rights too and need to be protected - particularly when ghe owners know and continue to let ghe same dog roam and attack. It has now killed. What are you waiting for? A child?

And I am very sorry about your poor kitten. And your daughter.

^^^ THIS^^^

How can the owners possibly guarantee that the dog wont get out again.

@ Puccamama. What possible reason could there be for anyone to have four dogs, a cat and a bird. One of my neighbours has four dogs and they're a bloody nightmare barking all the time but yours probably don't bark at all! He's had his last warning, then I'm going to court.

Sorry for derailing slightly OP but I wouldn't have to think twice about this one. I'm not a dog hater, I've had a Lab/Setter for 11 years but inconsiderate ignorant dog owners boil my pi$$.

PucaMama

emeldc wrote: »

JustAThought wrote: »

There you have it. Dog injured first - apologies & reassurances. Dog still let wander & despite reassurances no muzzle put on it ( as required by law) & dog still let wander. Second pet attacked - killed and daughter left traumatised.

You sound like a nice person but what kind of sign are you waiting for before you tackle this dog & it's behaviour and the owners snd neighbours total lack of compliance with the law for this type of breed? A a dog that they have already made & broken their promises on.

Before the restricted breed loving community get going here lets make it clear - the dog has attacked & injured another, the owners/mjnders were at fault, they made promises which were worthless, they continued to break the law in three different ways - dog not on a short metal lead, dog not under supervision by responsible adult, dog out in public without being muzzled AND on lead. Now a second pet has been injured - rippped to shreds in front of a child. What if the dog had decided to continue and moved onto her? And yes - when the dog attacks again & next time its a child or a humsn or another dog also ripped to shreds you will feel guilty snd you will be partly to blame because you were directly involved in the sequence of events & choose to do nothing. Nobody else can make this complaint to the police - you are responsible.

You may be loving and kjnd snd soft hearted and want goodwill towards your neighbours but neither the owners nor the minders are extending these basic courtesys or any statuatory protections required by law back to you. You are the only one that can make this complaint to the gaurds - Do It. And before another pet is shredded, or another teenager traumatised or a baby mutilated.

Did you read the article these past weeks about the two baby brothers mutilated and killed in the UK by another such 'perfect' dog with a well intending PC owner. One child was a few weeks okd & the other was just two - both attacked in the same instance by the one dog while their mother was there. RIP. Take reaponsibility and go down to the local police. Don't listen to any more hollow words or excuses or allow them to guilt you out of doung ghd right thing. Little dogs, nice pets, trusting little kittens, and loving children have rights too and need to be protected - particularly when ghe owners know and continue to let ghe same dog roam and attack. It has now killed. What are you waiting for? A child?

And I am very sorry about your poor kitten. And your daughter.

^^^ THIS^^^

How can the owners possibly guarantee that the dog wont get out again.

@ Puccamama. What possible reason could there be for anyone to have four dogs, a cat and a bird. One of my neighbours has four dogs and they're a bloody nightmare barking all the time but yours probably don't bark at all! He's had his last warning, then I'm going to court.

Sorry for derailing slightly OP but I wouldn't have to think twice about this one. I'm not a dog hater, I've had a Lab/Setter for 11 years but inconsiderate ignorant dog owners boil my pi$.

Because I wanted them that's why I had them. Would you criticise me if I had 5 children no you wouldn't so take your nose out of my business. My dogs are not allowed to bark they are not left outside to bark unlike my neighbours dog. My dogs live inside.

Not that it's any of your business but my animals are all either strays or rescues.

njs030

Just to clarify despite your many (many, many) repetitions of the dogs breed in your post a lot of dogs have a high prey drive and will kill a cat. I don't know why you felt a need to say over and over what type of dog it is.

Lurchers and greyhounds are particularly dangerous to cats as they have the speed as to catch them as well as they prey drive to want to go after any furry thing that runs.
Most terriers have a high prey drive too from years of breeding to hunt rats and mice...staffies are a terrier breed.

I'm just going to ignore the hysterical "sure if he could hurt a cat what about the children" because oh my god have a bit of sense.

Anyway, you said the neighbor that owns the dog has an enclosed garden so the fault lies with the person looking after the dog during the day? For some reason they have left the dog with an idiot neighbor, hopefully they've learnt their lesson but would you consider saying to them that if you see said dog wandering again you will contact the warden?

ShaShaBear

notjustsweet wrote: »

Just to clarify despite your many (many, many) repetitions of the dogs breed in your post a lot of dogs have a high prey drive and will kill a cat. I don't know why you felt a need to say over and over what type of dog it is.

Lurchers and greyhounds are particularly dangerous to cats as they have the speed as to catch them as well as they prey drive to want to go after any furry thing that runs.
Most terriers have a high prey drive too from years of breeding to hunt rats and mice...staffies are a terrier breed.

I'm just going to ignore the hysterical "sure if he could hurt a cat what about the children" because oh my god have a bit of sense.

Anyway, you said the neighbor that owns the dog has an enclosed garden so the fault lies with the person looking after the dog during the day? For some reason they have left the dog with an idiot neighbor, hopefully they've learnt their lesson but would you consider saying to them that if you see said dog wandering again you will contact the warden?

So many times this. I have a border collie, and before that I had a border collie. Both of them would DESTROY a cat on sight. Hell, if Opie even SMELLS a cat he goes crazy - that does not make him a danger to children, of which I have two.
Further more, they are one of the more common Irish family pets as far as breeds go. The dog being a staff has little to nothing to do with it.

super_furry

These people clearly can't be trusted and have no right being left in control of a dog. They're clearly not looking after it.

I'd do everything in my power to ensure that the dog isn't left with your neighbours anymore, because who knows what will be attacked the third time.

Cherry Blossom

This thread is already going downhill. Can all posters please be respectful of each other. Personal digs will not be tolerated here.

Thanks,
CB.

Ruth098

notjustsweet wrote: »

Just to clarify despite your many (many, many) repetitions of the dogs breed in your post a lot of dogs have a high prey drive and will kill a cat. I don't know why you felt a need to say over and over what type of dog it is.

Lurchers and greyhounds are particularly dangerous to cats as they have the speed as to catch them as well as they prey drive to want to go after any furry thing that runs.
Most terriers have a high prey drive too from years of breeding to hunt rats and mice...staffies are a terrier breed.

I'm just going to ignore the hysterical "sure if he could hurt a cat what about the children" because oh my god have a bit of sense.

Anyway, you said the neighbor that owns the dog has an enclosed garden so the fault lies with the person looking after the dog during the day? For some reason they have left the dog with an idiot neighbor, hopefully they've learnt their lesson but would you consider saying to them that if you see said dog wandering again you will contact the warden?

I find your reply very disheartening. I mentioned the dogs breed three times. Firstly, so you would all know what type of dog is was that killed kitten ( because someone would have probably asked). Secondly, I just mentioned it as a fact and thirdly in reference to looking the type of breed up. You mentioned lurchers and greyhounds, but I wasn't asking what dogs are dangerous, I was just saying which dog killed our kitten.
Saying you are going to ignore the hysterical....."If he could hurt a cat, what about the children" and then telling me to have a bit of sense.....is extremely rude.
My daughter was hysterical yesterday having witnessed this awful attack.....I have never experienced anything like this before and my question "what if it could hurt a child"....is extremely normal in these circumstances. The breed of the dog is not the question.....my question was purely should I prosecute or not.

dev100

Firstly any dog will bite I think the worst offender isn't a dangerous breed . The big difference is I'd rather face a terrier than a " dangerous breed " . Then again terriers are little feckers for attacking bigger dogs . My sheepdog hates certain smaller dogs and keeps away from them. Sometimes cats or chickens come into our yard and she is told not to go near them which she doesn't .... basically a dog has to follow orders.

I do believe no matter the size or breed of the dog it should always be kept under control and certainly never be out to roam and the fact the staff has came into your yard twice and been destructive would drive me mad . I'd of probably slaughtered it by now if I had of caught it attacking any of my pets on my property . I'd of shown it no mercy.

Pickpocket

Contact the guards and/or warden and take it from there. Either the owner or the dog's day-carer have been negligent on more than one occasion. I'm a Staff owner myself. I know how strong he is and I know he'd see a cat as prey. I take all the necessary precautions to make sure an event like that never happens.

I have no time for people that are constantly having a go at Staffs or their owners, but I have even less time for those owners that don't appreciate that their pet is the subject of specific legislation.

If possible, prosecute.

Pkiernan

The dog has proven itself to be dangerous two times now.
It needs to be put to sleep.

Anyone thinking otherwise is an idiot.

njs030

Ruth098 wrote: »

I find your reply very disheartening. I mentioned the dogs breed three times. Firstly, so you would all know what type of dog is was that killed kitten ( because someone would have probably asked). Secondly, I just mentioned it as a fact and thirdly in reference to looking the type of breed up. You mentioned lurchers and greyhounds, but I wasn't asking what dogs are dangerous, I was just saying which dog killed our kitten.
Saying you are going to ignore the hysterical....."If he could hurt a cat, what about the children" and then telling me to have a bit of sense.....is extremely rude.
My daughter was hysterical yesterday having witnessed this awful attack.....I have never experienced anything like this before and my question "what if it could hurt a child"....is extremely normal in these circumstances. The breed of the dog is not the question.....my question was purely should I prosecute or not.

Well firstly it wasn't aimed at you, it was at the posters after you who were saying things like who knows who it'll attack next, a teenager a baby etc. Op I didn't even see that in your post actually.
But, no it's not normal to suggest that an animal with a prey drive for small furries automatically will bite a child I can't see where the idea comes from other than bull breed hysteria.

I offered some valid suggestions which you ignored?

Pickpocket

Pkiernan wrote: »

The dog has proven itself to be dangerous two times now.
It needs to be put to sleep.

Anyone thinking otherwise is an idiot.

The dog has done what a large number of dogs will do, namely fight other dogs and attack prey.

Anyone thinking otherwise doesn't know anything about animals.

The dog may well have to be destroyed but I'd be looking for a more substantial case-history before going down that route.

Nody

I'd go with option 2 for the simple reason it might finally sink in to the owner to do something about it and it will be on the record if it happens a second time which would go the route of option 3. I'd also ask the owner to refund you the full cost for the vet care and cost of getting a new kitten; dog will be dogs owners need to be hit where it hurts, their wallets. As for you new kitten you've experienced exactly why I'm not a fan of free roaming cats; your kitten could very well have roamed in to their garden or another garden with a dog not on the restricted breed for the same result.

Ruth098

notjustsweet wrote: »

Well firstly it wasn't aimed at you, it was at the posters after you who were saying things like who knows who it'll attack next, a teenager a baby etc. Op I didn't even see that in your post actually.
But, no it's not normal to suggest that an animal with a prey drive for small furries automatically will bite a child I can't see where the idea comes from other than bull breed hysteria.

I offered some valid suggestions which you ignored?

I didn't ignore your valid suggestions...I choose not to comment on it in my reply because I was so taken aback by your post. It seemed like your comments were pointed in my direction as I am the original poster.I did say in my post, which you didn't read fully...what if it attacks a child.
I'm not suggesting all dogs with a prey drive for "small furries" as you put it will attack a child.....but my god if another dog, regardless of breed, attacks my dog and then on a another occasion charges into my back garden and kills our kitten...then my question is quite a normal one that anyone in my situation would ask.

njs030

Ruth098 wrote: »

I didn't ignore your valid suggestions...I choose not to comment on it in my reply because I was so taken aback by your post. It seemed like your comments were pointed in my direction as I am the original poster.I did say in my post, which you didn't read fully...what if it attacks a child.
I'm not suggesting all dogs with a prey drive for "small furries" as you put it will attack a child.....but my god if another dog, regardless of breed, attacks my dog and then on a another occasion charges into my back garden and kills our kitten...then my question is quite a normal one that anyone in my situation would ask.

You chose not to comment on the reply to the question you asked. For a second time.

I'm really not saying the same thing a third time. Dogs all over the country hunt, I gave examples of dogs that have high prey drives they don't attack children as they aren't cats.

kidneyfan

Contact the police and ask them what to do.

Tigger

Pkiernan wrote: »

The dog has proven itself to be dangerous two times now.
It needs to be put to sleep.

Anyone thinking otherwise is an idiot.

I'm an idiot cos I blame the owners. Staffie needs to be kept under control it's the law either they need to put in a secure fence or they need to give the dog to someone who will.
Yes I've a staffie and I'd be shocked if she didn't try to kill a cat and I suppose I'd not be shocked if she fought another dog (although she doesn't show any signs of it) . She's perfect round kids and people In general but I still keep her I. Check just in case. So yeah I blame the owners

Lady Haywire

PucaMama wrote: »

Why are you saying pc owners I have a staff and you would find it hard to see me as pc if you knew me. I have 4 dogs and the only one who would bite is the small terrier that everyone thinks is small and cute.

A PC owner- as in the owner of that dog in the UK was a police constable.

Ruth098, you mention both he & she in regards to your neighbours that mind the dog. Did you get to talk to the lady who had 'promised the dog would not be let out again unless on a lead'? I'd have taken it up with her after being so rudely treated by the man saying dogs would be dogs....

The owners of the dog themselves got warning with it attacking your dog before and it wasn't heeded. I'd definitely agree with reporting & fining if possible. Hopefully that should give the owners a blatant message and also the dog would have a record with the dog warden.
Though the breed of the dog shouldn't matter imo, if it has attacked a dog, now killed a cat, it should not be let out or be able to get out- at all- restricted breed or not.

I am really sorry about your cat, I'd go ballistic if any dog even injured either of mine, never mind killed. It's just unfortunate that your cat was so used to your own quiet dog, otherwise it might have ran away

Tigger

Cats are not children. Dogs love children and hate cats

PucaMama

Tigger wrote: »

Cats are not children. Dogs love children and hate cats

my staffy was raised with loads of cats, so thinks he can be friends with every cat he sees. hes had so many scratches from unfriendly cats.

Nody

ThinkProgress wrote: »

it is a dangerous breed with a taste for killing and imo it will do so again if not destroyed.

You want to back up your claim with anything beyond scaremongering granny talk which has no factual or scientific background? This type of reaction belongs with the alpha dog owners (you need to show your dog who's the boss or they will dominate you!) on the garbage yard without any facts backing it up. If you want to kill the dog at least learn the real facts about how dog act instead of this complete and utter BS you're claiming.

tk123

How did the dog just run into the garden? Is it open/unsecured?

I'd call the warden and let them decide who the onus is on in this case - owner or minder.


BTW the whole taste of blood thing is an old wives tail and is a good measure of how completely clueless/hysterical somebody can be... my dogs eat raw meat every day btw and haven't killed any animals or children yet.

kylith

Tigger wrote: »

I'm an idiot cos I blame the owners. Staffie needs to be kept under control it's the law either they need to put in a secure fence or they need to give the dog to someone who will.

The owner has a secure fence. The dog minder and the OP don't have secure fencing.

ThinkProgress

Nody wrote: »

You want to back up your claim with anything beyond scaremongering granny talk which has no factual or scientific background? This type of reaction belongs with the alpha dog owners (you need to show your dog who's the boss or they will dominate you!) on the garbage yard without any facts backing it up. If you want to kill the dog at least learn the real facts about how dog act instead of this complete and utter BS you're claiming.

You're talking garbage... I own dogs, I've studied wolves... I know what I'm talking about.

You're entitled to your opinion, but you are most certainly WRONG!

I won't be taking the bait and getting dragged into a back and forth exchange that is likely to go absolutely nowhere on such a topic. (past experience on such discussions)

tk123 wrote: »

BTW the whole taste of blood thing is an old wives tail and is a good measure of how completely clueless/hysterical somebody can be... my dogs eat raw meat every day btw and haven't killed any animals or children yet.

Taste for killing is different to the taste of blood. (although they can be connected obviously)

Taste for killing is most certainly a very REAL thing! Indisputably a real thing!

Tigger

PucaMama wrote: »

my staffy was raised with loads of cats, so thinks he can be friends with every cat he sees. hes had so many scratches from unfriendly cats.

My staffie thinks she's a person and that the other dogs are her pet dogs but my point stands, aggression towards cats is not inducatitative of aggression towards children

Tigger

kylith wrote: »

The owner has a secure fence. The dog minder and the OP don't have secure fencing.

I know (needs to be kept in a secure fence)
So the dog minder needs a secure fence clearly

Jimmy Bottlehead

I adore dogs, but twice is two times too many.

I don't blame the dog, I blame the minder. But I'd be issuing an ultimatum - either the minder no longer looks after the dog (as they're not only incapable, but also rude) or else prosecution and the dog being PTS.

You've done your due diligence, OP. The minder has not and the kittens death is the result. It's not acceptable.

cnocbui

Pickpocket wrote: »

The dog has done what a large number of dogs will do, namely fight other dogs and attack prey.

Anyone thinking otherwise doesn't know anything about animals.

The dog may well have to be destroyed but I'd be looking for a more substantial case-history before going down that route.

Yes, it's quite obvious that a child has to be die in order for you to have evidence you consider sufficient.

Dubl07

Dogs will be dogs and dogs with high prey drives will chase small animals. It concerns me somewhat that the kitten was killed even though it didn't run. It concerns me that the dog was allowed to roam. It deeply concerns me that the owner and minder did not follow through on their legal obligations and empty promises to keep the dog in their care in their control and on their premises.

The law as it stands obligates owners of certain breeds to muzzle and leash them in public. All dog owners are obligated to keep their dogs under effective control regardless of breed.

Since the owner and minder have failed in their moral, legal and civic obligations to the dog, the law and the public, I would report them officially to the dog warden and ask for the owner to be fined. That might soften their cough.

PucaMama

Tigger wrote: »

My staffie thinks she's a person and that the other dogs are her pet dogs but my point stands, aggression towards cats is not inducatitative of aggression towards children

i agree, many dogs dont like even other dogs but love people

Tigger

cnocbui wrote: »

Yes, it's quite obvious that a child has to be die in order for you to have evidence you consider sufficient.

i sue a large no life thretening bite would be enough

cnocbui

Tigger wrote: »

Cats are not children. Dogs love children and hate cats

That is so clearly untrue that I sincerely hope you don't have a dog under your keeping.

Pickpocket

Everytime I hear some Staffy scaremongering I think of the many Staffs in Sydney. Go to any public place over there and you'll see Staffs and other bull breeds walking about with no leads, socialising with random dogs, being petted by total strangers and just generally being lovable little things. It seems that in Sydney and Melbourne it's socially unacceptable, embarrassing even, to have a badly trained dog. I realise I'm making a broad generalisation there but it really was noticeable.

I thought the same of the many French bulldogs in Nice and the surrounding towns and villages. People treating their dogs as an extension of themselves. Providing for their welfare and accepting responsibility for their training and behaviour. We need more of that type of attitude in this country.

Staffs are powerful dogs that, rightly or wrongly, are legislated for in this country. Unfortunately there's plenty of Staff owners that want the cool dog but not the civic responsibility that comes with owning one.

tk123

cnocbui wrote: »

That is so clearly untrue that I sincerely hope you don't have a dog under your keeping.

Agreed - I have one dog who hates cats and likes kids...and another who hates the obnoxious variety of kids and is afraid of cats.

Dyr

ThinkProgress wrote: »

You're talking garbage... I own dogs, I've studied wolves... I know what I'm talking about.

And yet in that one sentence you revealed that you don't know what you'e talking about

Quite the achievement

Tigger

cnocbui wrote: »

That is so clearly untrue that I sincerely hope you don't have a dog under your keeping.

i've loads of dogs and children

Tigger

cnocbui wrote: »

That is so clearly untrue that I sincerely hope you don't have a dog under your keeping.

i've loads of dogs and children

Latatian

In response to Tigger and Cnocbui's tangent. Many dogs just do not like children, and the ones that do often have to be taught to like children. Kids are often loud, illmannered, do weird things, and are often very very 'rude' in dog terms.

What is worrying is that so many owners don't notice. My own labrador does not like children. But I have seen friends attach a lead to her and hand it to a small child and they were surprised when I told them off and took it off her. Because the dog might be 'nice' and would 'never hurt a child' etc. but they were clearly, obviously miserable around children. Tucked tail, averted eyes, lowered head, physically taking herself out of the room whenever the child comes in and still they would say "She loves the child look how they get on together." and put her on a rope attached to the thing she was avoiding, because they had literally no idea that she hated them. If she wasn't growling she was 'happy'. She loves her own cats though.

OP- I would be flaming mad with those people. They are clearly, all, minder and owner, completely irresponsible. Go to both of them, tell them you are reporting them to the gardai, don't expect any promises of theirs to hold good. It's unlikely to be a child next time but it could sure as hell be someone's sheep, horses, serious financial damage. I would ask for an apology and financial recompense- some token gesture- and either a damn good fence or chain to be installed or the dog to be rehomed.


It's true that for some dogs "Dogs will be dogs...this is what they do...they chase and kill cats....it's in their nature". That's why people with more than one brain cell do not let them wander into other people's gardens and kill their cats. "If you knew this then why on earth would you still let the damn thing roam." The cat-loving dog has in the past killed a pheasant- doesn't make her bad, doesn't mean she would kill a child, it is normal dog behaviour. Like hell would I let her into the neighbour's guinea fowl and then say "Oh well dogs will be dogs."

celligraphy

I had a staff before friendliest dog ever and very silly poor guy used to do anything for belly rubs . He would actually lie out in the road for cars to stop thinking they would rub him if they stopped , he loved cats and children but then he was raised differently go to the gardai about this op , that dog is dangerous and has no control , sorry to hear about your kitten

zoe 3619

So sorry O.P to hear about your cat.Must have been hugely distressing for the whole family.
Many posters seem to be debating the nature of staffs,and that seems somewhat irrelevant.
Irrespective of breed,a dog entering your property once and causing damage to another animal is negligence on the part of the owner.
For it to happen twice is pretty much unforgivable.I'd be having a strong word with the owner about how they're going to make this right,but I don't know what I'd be looking for..certainly,I wouldn't want the dog to suffer,but i wouldn't trust any further promises to keep it contained,nor would I want financial compensation as I'm sure the cost of a kitten would in no way equate to the sadness that you feel at the loss of your cat.
I guess I'd demand that you never see it in your neighbours garden again,or pass it in the street without it being leashed and muzzled.If they don't agree,give them the option of rehoming,or you'll apply to have the dog destroyed.

asdfghjdkl

To say this dog is dangerous and has no control and should be destroyed is not right. Cats kill smaller prey all the time. If a cat caught a budgie, a pet hamster, a pet guinea pig - would you call for the cat to be destroyed - or is it more acceptable for a cat to kill

Don't get me wrong - I love animals and can not even begin to imagine how traumatic it must have been for the OPs poor 17 year old daughter to witness this but lets not march with flaming torches and pitch forks and demand that the dog be put down. The dog has obviously not been raised with cats but this does not make it a danger to children.
The OP did not say the neighbour/minder was rude. She said the neighbour said "Dogs will be dogs...this is what they do...they chase and kill cats....it's in their nature" In a lot of cases this is true, and in a lot of cases it is not true.

The dog should be muzzled and kept on a lead.

Bells21

asdfghjdkl wrote:

The dog should be muzzled and kept on a lead.

The dog should be muzzled and on a lead or kept contained but this is the second incident of this dog being loose and causing damage. It's the fault of the owner/minder, it's not the fault of the dog or the fault of the dog's breed. I would doubt that many dog lovers would be rushing to urge the OP to have the dog put down as they can see a very simple solution to preventing this happening in the future. However, this depends on the owner and the minder taking responsibility to ensure that this dog isn't given free range but clearly they haven't listened or learned from the last time. If I was the OP I would speak to them again and advise that they will be reporting it in the hopes that this would give them a huge wake up call. Then hopefully the OP won't have to worry about what could happen and the dog isn't punished for what was ultimately an incident caused by humans.
This was an awful thing to have happened and I can only imagine how distressing it was for the OP's daughter.

borderlinemeath

OP, what a horrible thing for your daughter to witness. But I have to echo some of the other posters, just because a dog has a high prey drive towards animals - it does not follow that they will be aggressive towards children. It does seem to be the natural thing to automatically think "but what if it was a child" but they aren't mutually exclusive. There is no hard and fast rule, some dogs like cats, some don't. Some dogs like children, some don't. Think about it, your little kitten would most likely have had a prey drive for rodents or birds, yet nobody ever says "put that cat down, it just slaughtered a mouse and it could be the children next".

All that said, the fault lies mostly with the minder of the dog, who has chosen to mind a dog yet fails to secure their garden against the dog escaping. Restricted breed or not, it is against the law for a dog to roam without any supervision - the minder has continually failed to supervise and now your dog and ultimately your kitten have paid the price for their lack of responsibility. While the owner has expressed their apologies, it simply isn't good enough if they continue to leave their dog with somebody who fails in their task to keep the dog secure, so I would be calling the dog warden to issue a warning if possible.

Fakediamond

I'm unsure in what location your dog was also bitten, OP? Was it in your own garden? If so, that's two instances of the dog not being kept under proper supervision and roaming free, not that it's any more acceptable to attack your dog on the street! It should be muzzled when being walked anyway.

It's the law to keep them under close control, because of the damage those jaws can do. I understand that people love their Staffies, I think they're lovely dogs myself, but would never want one. I think the difficulty with bull breeds in this country, unlike Australia, for example, is that many here are bred for their aggression, and used as status/fighting dogs. so unless you're very sure of their blood line, going way back, you can't be sure of their temperament.

Regarding this dog, I would certainly follow up with dog warden and take their advice on how to proceed. It's not acceptable for anyone's dog to enter your garden and attack a beloved pet. I adore my dog and cat and would never get over it if I saw either of them being torn to pieces before my eyes. I'm so sorry for your loss.

newacc2015

OP IMO the problem doesnt lie with the dog, it is the owners who are incapable of looking after it. They have proven twice they will not take responsibility for the dog and its actions. It has just killed a kitten. When will they finally realise they did need to be responsible for it? They probably will never take responsibility for dog and therefore I think you should give them the option of rehoming the dog or you will request for the dog to be put down.

These people won't change and have proven twice they can't control their dog. I imagine a warning from the warden means nothing to these people

Pickpocket

Fakediamond wrote: »

I understand that people love their Staffies

I adore mine but I'll never get another one.

He was abandoned. Dumped near a local park at about 2 months. Terrified out of his skin. I was initially just looking after him until I could get him homed. But I got very attached to him and also knew that I'd take care of him correctly and not use him as a status or aggression thing.

But god love him, he's just so much work. People are very reluctant to allow him near their dogs so he doesn't have the 'social life' that my Jack Russell has. I can never bring him anywhere casually. He's a house dog and absolutely central in my life, so he's not stuck for attention, exercise, games, etc. But it breaks my heart to see my family and friends avoiding him when all he wants to do is play.

I also have a lot nieces and nephews visiting my house and that creates problems. I would NEVER leave any animal unsupervised with children. However my Jack Russell is so small that the kids could kick her off if the worst happened, at least keep her at bay until an adult intervened. But the Staff is just so, so strong. He'd do serious damage to anyone. It creates a dynamic between owner and dog that I'm not comfortable with. I simply cannot afford to be complacent when it comes to children.

Anyway, I hope that doesn't sound too negative. I love my dog to bits. He's brought genuine happiness into my life. A true companion. But there are practical concerns that come with having a powerful dog. In fact there are statutory concerns which will effect your 'enjoyment' of your dog.

That's something to consider for people considering their first Staffy. All dogs are a big commitment but this dog requires more organisation and effort on my part than almost anything else in my life.