Refused Car Insurance Cover By Direct Cannel

Flangeo

My car insurance was up for renewal in the last few weeks with ALLIANZ, being in the unfortunate situation of having an open claim on my policy (someone else was driving my car who had an accident and the open claim is aginst my policy from almost 3 years ago) I am restricted from trying other insurance companies, however, given the fact that I have a 9 year protected no claims bonus I thought I would be somewhat insulated from a significant increase in premium this year.

To my shock it came in at almost €1,300 with ALLIANZ throught a broker which is a 57% increase on last year. When I queried this with the broker they advised that I had no other option but to take what was being offered as no other company would take me on with an open claim.

So, I decided to call ALLIANZ DIRECT rather than go through the broker to see if I could get a reduced price by dealing direct and to my surprise I was quoted €800 taking into accout my 9 years no claims bonus. Agreed to proceed complete all the necessary docs and foward my no claims cert. Within a week ALLIANZ DIRECT were back on to advise they could not put me on cover because of the open claim and returned my premium by way of check with a nice letter advising I am no longer on cover and that they RESERVE THE RIGHT TO REPORT ME TO THE GARDI FOR DRIVING WITHOUT INSURANCE.

However, this same shameful company ALLIANZ are willing to put me on cover throught their broker channel for €500 more on a like basis. This is the crazy car insurance market that many Irish people find themselves having to deal with at the moment. I known this is a small problem compared to what others have to go through, however, I feel it incumbent upon me to make some type of a stand against this shameful behaviour and would appreciate if you could provide any advise as how best to proceed and if Allianz are entitled to reufuse cover through their direct channel, seeing that I am already their customer through their broker channel?

Regards

HeidiHeidi

Try the insurance ombudsman.

Had you declared the open claim to them when they gave you the €800 quote direct?

peteb2

Flangeo wrote:

However, this same shameful company ALLIANZ are willing to put me on cover throught their broker channel for €500 more on a like basis. This is the crazy car insurance market that many Irish people find themselves having to deal with at the moment. I known this is a small problem compared to what others have to go through, however, I feel it incumbent upon me to make some type of a stand against this shameful behaviour and would appreciate if you could provide any advise as how best to proceed and if Allianz are entitled to reufuse cover through their direct channel, seeing that I am already their customer through their broker channel?

When they asked online who you were insured with did you say ? When they asked whether you hand any accidents what did you say?

Flangeo

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

Try the insurance ombudsman.

Had you declared the open claim to them when they gave you the €800 quote direct?

The question they asked was if I had any accidents in the last 3 years, the answer was no as someone else was driving my car. Regardless of the I had a fully protected NCB and the risk is with the same company. They are not supposed to be penalising me for having an accident as I have a protected NCB? Tks

Sono

Open claim on your policy has caused all of this, allianz direct would have not quoted you €800 had you disclosed all your information in the first place.

I'm nearly sure they ask if there is any open claims on your current policy?

Flangeo

peteb2 wrote: »

When they asked online who you were insured with did you say ? When they asked whether you hand any accidents what did you say?

They never asked who I was insured with, with regards to the question on accidents, the question was had I had any accidents in the last 3 years and the answer was no as I was not driving the car when the accident occurred. Regardless of all this, this is the same insurance company who I have a fully protected NCB so why should I get treated any different through a direct channel?

Flangeo

Sono wrote: »

Open claim on your policy has caused all of this, allianz direct would have not quoted you €800 had you disclosed all your information in the first place.

I'm nearly sure they ask if there is any open claims on your current policy?

I know, however the open claim is with Allianz, and I have a protected NCB which not supposed to affect the premium?

Sono

Flangeo wrote: »

They never asked who I was insured with, with regards to the question on accidents, the question was had I had any accidents in the last 3 years and the answer was no as I was not driving the car when the accident occurred. Regardless of all this, this is the same insurance company who I have a fully protected NCB so why should I get treated any different through a direct channel?

You have had an accident in the last 3 years as it is on your policy and you know this. The person to be annoyed with is the person that crashed your car not the insurance company.

As for your fully protected ncb you're allowed have 1 claim every 3 years with no affect on it so I'm guessing there are personal injury claims outstanding hence why this case is still open?

HeidiHeidi

You have a protected No Claims Bonus. That means the percentage by which they reduce the premium stays the same.

Nothing stopping them jacking up the premium though (and they clearly have).

It's a common misconception.

Sono

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

You have a protected No Claims Bonus. That means the percentage by which they reduce the premium stays the same.

Nothing stopping them jacking up the premium though (and they clearly have).

It's a common misconception.

Yep, premiums are going up and up yet when someone has a claim and it goes up on renewal they believe they've been penalised for the accident even when the bonus is protected

Flangeo

Sono wrote: »

Yep, premiums are going up and up yet when someone has a claim and it goes up on renewal they believe they've been penalised for the accident even when the bonus is protected

I understand all this, but yet I can get it 500 cheaper with their direct challenge, I am not supposed to get penalised for having an accident if I have a protected NCB or am I missing something here?

HeidiHeidi

For that reason I only ever get step-back protection, and then only if it adds less than about a tenner to the premium.

Stoolbend

Have you tried the broker since?

It's possible the won't I'm sure you now as you've been refused insurance and didn't disclose the open claim which you knew you were supposed to.

HeidiHeidi

Flangeo wrote: »

I understand all this, but yet I can get it 500 cheaper with their direct challenge, I am not supposed to get penalised for having an accident if I have a protected NCB or am I missing something here?

You clearly can't, as they've refused it once they copped the open claim.

See my post above. Your bonus percentage is protected. Your premium is not.

Sono

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

For that reason I only ever get step-back protection, and then only if it adds less than about a tenner to the premium.

I think you're mad only having step back, losing 3 years of your ncb for a claim is madness IMO, each to their own I guess

Stoolbend

Your discount remains in place.

The premium that gets discounted gets increased because of the claim.

Flangeo

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

You have a protected No Claims Bonus. That means the percentage by which they reduce the premium stays the same.

Nothing stopping them jacking up the premium though (and they clearly have).

It's a common misconception.

I understand all this, but yet I can get it 500 cheaper with their direct challenge, I am not supposed to get penalised for having an accident if I have a protected NCB or am I missing something here? So why is a like for like policy significantly cheaper through direct and if so as this is the same company why can I not avail of it. The question here is really around the treatment of customers through different channels

Sono

Flangeo wrote: »

I understand all this, but yet I can get it 500 cheaper with their direct challenge, I am not supposed to get penalised for having an accident if I have a protected NCB or am I missing something here?

Yes you are missing something as you can't do this which you've clearly told us already.

HeidiHeidi

Sono wrote: »

I think you're mad only having step back, losing 3 years of your ncb for a claim is madness IMO, each to their own I guess

But why would I pay extra for a discount, when they can just hike up the premium to cover the difference?

I won't call it a scam but it's a bit of a swizz, as the OP has just found out.

weisses

And people still find it strange that there are so many uninsured drivers ....

Flangeo

Stoolbend wrote: »

Have you tried the broker since?

It's possible the won't I'm sure you now as you've been refused insurance and didn't disclose the open claim which you knew you were supposed to.

The open claim is with the same company who have access to all my details. I have not tried to move companies, just use a different channel within the same company who hold the risk. My argument is why should I get treated differently through a different channel within the same company holding the same risk?

Sono

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

But why would I pay extra for a discount, when they can just hike up the premium to cover the difference?

I won't call it a scam but it's a bit of a swizz, as the OP has just found out.

How is it a scam? There's an outstanding claim on their policy(guessing it's personal injury which is an average of €27k payout btw) hence why the premiums are going up but you still have your fully protected ncb.

Losing 3 years of an ncb if I had the maximum 5 would be a horrible thing to lose.

Sono

weisses wrote: »

And people still find it strange that there are so many uninsured drivers ....

Love this argument, check out the personal injury claims in Ireland that's why premiums are going up yet people are ignorant to it, people are scamming each other!

square ball

Flangeo wrote: »

I understand all this, but yet I can get it 500 cheaper with their direct challenge, I am not supposed to get penalised for having an accident if I have a protected NCB or am I missing something here?

The premium for €500 cheaper was based on you not disclosing a material fact. As the claim was on your policy it was against you so you had to declare it regardless of who was driving. You must have known this was going to be an issue if you tried shopping around.

As for the bonus protection. Your bonus is protected not your premium. The main benefit for this is you do not have to start building your no claims bonus once the claim is settled. So after this year when the claim is settled or go over the claims free in 3 years threshold with some companies you won't be penalized at all.

Flangeo

Sono wrote: »

Yes you are missing something as you can't do this which you've clearly told us already.

The question is why? I work for a financial company with many different routes to market. Every route we treat the customer the same way. This is clearly not evident here. What I am asking is, is this right and should it be allowed. I seemed to be getting penalised for having an accident when I have a protected NCB?

Sono

Flangeo wrote: »

The question is why? I work for a financial company with many different routes to market. Every route we treat the customer the same way. This is clearly not evident here. What I am asking is, is this right and should it be allowed. I seemed to be getting penalised for having an accident when I have a protected NCB?

Your premium has gone up like nearly everyone else, regardless of this accident it would have increased.

Case closed

Flangeo

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

You clearly can't, as they've refused it once they copped the open claim.

See my post above. Your bonus percentage is protected. Your premium is not.

There are the same company carrying the same risk, if I was trying to move company, yes I would understand. If I have a protected NCB Im not supposed to get penalise. I.e I should have such an increase as it is clearly evident that they can do it forn 500 cheaper under the same 9yr NCB?

peteb2

Flangeo wrote:

I understand all this, but yet I can get it 500 cheaper with their direct challenge, I am not supposed to get penalised for having an accident if I have a protected NCB or am I missing something here?

You can't get it direct for cheaper. Because you have incorrectly answered a question on the website. So your quote wasn't valid. And they would not have quoted if you declared it correctly.

Your protected NCB is irrelevant here. They are likely just increasing rates on your broker quote as that is the way motor is going.

You better hope they haven't cancelled your direct quote for non disclosure of the claim as you will have to tell insurers that in the future.

And can you even go back to your broker ? That policy will have lapsed.

Flangeo

Sono wrote: »

Your premium has gone up like nearly everyone else, regardless of this accident it would have increased.

Case closed

I'm not disagreeing with that and understand it, what I have a problem with is the difference between the direct price and the broker price, if I did not have an open claim I could easily move. As this is the same company, holding the same risk how is it justified? The NCB discount is supposed to protect against accidents which does not seem to be the case here

peteb2

Flangeo wrote:

There are the same company carrying the same risk, if I was trying to move company, yes I would understand. If I have a protected NCB Im not supposed to get penalise. I.e I should have such an increase as it is clearly evident that they can do it forn 500 cheaper under the same 9yr NCB?

Pretend it wasn't Allianz you went to for the the purpose of doing away with your different channel notion. Pretend it was Zurich. You went to them and got a quote for 500 cheaper than Allianz - because you failed to declare the claim under your policy.

So your Zurich quote is invalid. If you didn't have a claim on your policy, yes you would be entitled to a cheaper quote. But you do have a claim so you aren't. And that's it in a nutshell.

peteb2

Flangeo wrote:

I'm not disagreeing with that and understand it, what I have a problem with is the difference between the direct price and the broker price, if I did not have an open claim I could easily move. As this is the same company, holding the same risk how is it justified? The NCB discount is supposed to protect against accidents which does not seem to be the case here

The difference isn't between the broker and direct price. It's your non disclosure of the claim.

I'm starting to think you are deliberately misunderstanding to suit your own argument.

The NCB protection prevents against losing your NCB. So in this instance your broker quoted you 1500 instead of 3000!! Because you retained your NCB.

Rates change. You've seen the papers right?

And disregard any idea of a direct channel and the pricing. Because it just isn't open to you

And there will always be a price difference between a broker and directly dealing with the broker. That's the price of business.

Flangeo

peteb2 wrote: »

Pretend it wasn't Allianz you went to for the the purpose of doing away with your different channel notion. Pretend it was Zurich. You went to them and got a quote for 500 cheaper than Allianz - because you failed to declare the claim under your policy.

So your Zurich quote is invalid. If you didn't have a claim on your policy, yes you would be entitled to a cheaper quote. But you do have a claim so you aren't. And that's it in a nutshell.

Thanks for making my argument, the claim is not supposed to affect my premium. But yet it clearly is, as can be seen in the €500 difference. That's all I am querying here?

davo10

Op, go online or phone any insurance company, give them your details, leaving out the claim and ask for a quote, then tell them "oh, sorry I did have a claim and it is still open", then ask them for the quote. I think you would find a substantial difference in the premium when amended to include the claim. Your NCB is a percentage reduction, the cost of your premium is going up but your discount percentage stays the same.

davo10

Flangeo wrote: »

Thanks for making my argument, the claim is not supposed to affect my premium. But yet it clearly is, as can be seen in the €500 difference. That's all I am querying here?

No, the claim is not supposed to effect your NCB discount on your premium, two very different things.

If your NCB is protected and it provides for a 60% discount on a €1000 premium then you pay €400. If your premium goes up to €2000 and your NCB is protected, you still get the 60% discount but you pay €800.

peteb2

Flangeo wrote:

Thanks for making my argument, the claim is not supposed to affect my premium. But yet it clearly is, as can be seen in the €500 difference. That's all I am querying here?

Jesus wept. The difference is the channel you have gone!

Flangeo

peteb2 wrote: »

The difference isn't between the broker and direct price. It's your non disclosure of the claim.

I'm starting to think you are deliberately misunderstanding to suit your own argument.

The NCB protection prevents against losing your NCB. So in this instance your broker quoted you 1500 instead of 3000!! Because you retained your NCB.

Rates change. You've seen the papers right?

And disregard any idea of a direct channel and the pricing. Because it just isn't open to you

And there will always be a price difference between a broker and directly dealing with the broker. That's the price of business.

Now we are finally getting somewhere, this is all that I am arguing, why shouldn't I have access to the direct channel price as the risk is with the same company? The NCB is supposed to protect me to allow for this. They already have all the claim details. Anyway I am going to see what the FSO has to say.

Flangeo

davo10 wrote: »

Op, go online or phone any insurance company, give them your details, leaving out the claim and ask for a quote, then tell them "oh, sorry I did have a claim and it is still open", then ask them for the quote. I think you would find a substantial difference in the premium when amended to include the claim. Your NCB is a percentage reduction, the cost of your premium is going up but your discount percentage stays the same.

I know but what I am arguing is, that this is the same company who is carrying the risk. How can they offer it so much cheaper in one section of the business on a like basis?

Sono

Flangeo wrote: »

Now we are finally getting somewhere, this is all that I am arguing, why shouldn't I have access to the direct channel price as the risk is with the same company? The NCB is supposed to protect me to allow for this. They already have all the claim details. Anyway I am going to see what the FSO has to say.

Look forward to seeing the same reply as you have gotten here but by all means work away. Why did you post it on boards as it looks like you were seeking reassurance that you're being shafted which you clearly aren't but as you have not been told that you're off to complain elsewhere.

Flangeo

davo10 wrote: »

No, the claim is not supposed to effect your NCB discount on your premium, two very different things.

If your NCB is protected and it provides for a 60% discount on a €1000 premium then you pay €400. If your premium goes up to €2000 and your NCB is protected, you still get the 60% discount but you pay €800.

Sorry of course your right, its the difference in price being offered by different areas of the same insurance company is all that I am querying and if this is right. I just think that all customers should be offered the same pricing opportunity. And all as I am saying is that because I have a Protected NCB I should be allowed to use this.

SmartinMartin

Flangeo wrote: »

I know but what I am arguing is, that this is the same company who is carrying the risk. How can they offer it so much cheaper in one section of the business on a like basis?

It wasn't on a like basis though. In one application you lied.

Flangeo

Sono wrote: »

Look forward to seeing the same reply as you have gotten here but by all means work away. Why did you post it on boards as it looks like you were seeking reassurance that you're being shafted which you clearly aren't but as you have not been told that you're off to complain elsewhere.

If we all took the advise we got on forums like this or any social media it would be a pretty sad day. The FSO are the professionals and that is what they are there for, to give some comfort around how Customers are treated and not just the opinion of a few. You would be very surprised how they view things. Also, I had verbal confirmation from Allianz that I was on cover while they checked into this.

TheChizler

The reason is that you provided incomplete information, and left out details which would materially affect the quote.

From the Allianz terms and conditions (you would have had to click a box saying you read them when getting the quote):

Quotations: All quotations and any acceptance or declinature by Allianz of your application for cover or renewal of cover are subject to your making full and complete disclosure to Allianz, including disclosure of all convictions, disqualifications, endorsements or pending prosecutions or any other matter materially affecting our assessment of risk, and to your providing Allianz with accurate and complete information. For motor insurance you must be aware that the nature of the driving licence held by you, your age, occupation, driving history, vehicle distribution and any other information which could affect your cover, all materially affect the assessment of the risk and the premium level. You must take reasonable care not to make any misrepresentations. A misrepresentation is where an individual provides inaccurate, misleading or incomplete information. Unless otherwise stated, all quotations are inclusive of levies, and premium taxes.

Once they figured out this omission they have every right to either jack up the quote or decline to provide cover.

Flangeo

SmartinMartin wrote: »

It wasn't on a like basis though. In one application you lied.

The cover is on a like basis. The accident is not supposed to have any affect as it is supposed to be protected that's why I pay the extra for it.

colm_mcm

I don't think you understand how no-claims protection works. That or you're in denial

theteal

Flangeo wrote: »

The cover is on a like basis. The accident is not supposed to have any affect as it is supposed to be protected that's why I pay the extra for it.

If you're just going to ignore the explanations given, why even bother start the thread? This has been explained multiple times now. Your NCB is protected, your premium is not.

SmartinMartin

Flangeo wrote: »

The cover is on a like basis. The accident is not supposed to have any affect as it is supposed to be protected that's why I pay the extra for it.

The cover is not on a like basis. In one quote you have a recorded accident, in the second one you don't. It's that simple. You lied about it and you got caught out. You'll be lucky if the original offer of cover is still available.

beechwood55

You were also asked if you have any claims or convictions - I would be amazed if you weren't

. I have never once applied for car insurance policy without being asked if I had any accidents, claims or convictions.

ptogher14

Why do you keep stating you got quote differently through different channels, when that's not the case. Yes it was the same customer but different criteria. You didn't disclose all the information, the broker clearly did.

Sleeper12

There is a disclosure clause in the T&Cs. You responsible to make them aware of anything that might effect the policy. When they found out that you didn't disclose the open claim they cancelled the policy. Now you have put yourself in the situation where for the rest of your life you have to answer yes when asked if you have ever been refused insurance or had a policy cancelled on you. You'll never be able to get an online quote from any insurance company again as saying yes to canceled policy or refused insurance will automatically decline any online quotes.

Sue Pa Key Pa

Flangeo wrote: »

The question they asked was if I had any accidents in the last 3 years, the answer was no as someone else was driving my car. Regardless of the I had a fully protected NCB and the risk is with the same company. They are not supposed to be penalising me for having an accident as I have a protected NCB? Tks

The question on their website is "Have you or drivers had any accidents, losses or claims within the last 5 years". If you answered No to that, there's your problem

As someone said earlier, a protected NCB only entitles you to the same discount of the gross premium. That gross premium can vary due to your history.

Finally, insurers use vastly different rating structure through different distribution channels. You will find everybody will get different premiums from Allianz & Allianz Direct

Sue Pa Key Pa

Flangeo wrote: »

The cover is on a like basis. The accident is not supposed to have any affect as it is supposed to be protected that's why I pay the extra for it.

Apart from my explanation above and many others before me, why did you decide to interpret protected NCB that way?