Skunklock - Would you join the revolution?

MB Lacey

A new US start up company 'Skunklock' claims to have produced a lock which once cut by 30% will emit a noxious gas resulting in would be bike thief to vomit immediately.

If you were in the US would you contribute the $99 to get your skunklock?

I think I might - though the thoughts of the gas escaping whilst left in the house aren't appealing :eek:

Skunklock site

Guardian article on Skunklock

magicbastarder

question is does it only happen when you're trying to cut the lock?

Macy0161

No, what would you do if you lost keys/ something went wrong with the lock?

On the other hand, the name reminds me to dig out my Campag Velocet and Lo-Fi Allstars CDs for Friday beers this evening...

omri

Simple gas mask should solve the problem. Better if it paralyzed the thief or make him permanently blind... possibilities are endless

MB Lacey

omri wrote: »

Simple gas mask should solve the problem. Better if it paralyzed the thief or make him permanently blind... possibilities are endless

permanently blind is possibly going a little far

From Skunklock:

'Can't a thief just wear a mask or protection?
Technically, yes. Will it help them steal your bike? Probably not. The formula that we've developed is detectable through even some of the most robust gas masks (unfortunately, we learned this the hard way!). More importantly, we aren't strictly relying on chemicals incapacitating the thief to prevent the theft. There is no technology that can guarantee theft prevention; however, we do believe SKUNKLOCK is the best lock on the market to deter theft. Not only does an attack on the SKUNKLOCK release chemicals onto the thief that create a scene that makes people take notice, it also has economic implications for the thief. Our formula irreversibly ruins the clothes worn by the thief or any of the protection they may be wearing, and replacing these items is likely more expensive than the resale value of your stolen bike (generally only 1/10 of the retail price).'

MB Lacey

magicbastarder wrote: »

question is does it only happen when you're trying to cut the lock?

Yes, but they claim the *pickable bit is very unpickable

*not the exact wording they used

smacl

Not a great idea, who takes responsibility for any passer by that gets accidentally exposed and has a vomiting fit and what if they happened to be young kids, elderly, sick etc...

tomasrojo

I can't wait to read what bikesnobnyc has to say. He is the poet laureate of crowd-funded bicycling "solutions".

tomasrojo

One of my housemates was sprayed by a baby juvenile skunk when I lived in Orange County. I cannot express how unbearable the stench was. I think she just threw her clothes out and washed a couple of dozen times. You used to be able to tell when a skunk had been run over on the freeway a couple of hundred metres away, because the smell carried so powerfully.

Anyway, I assume they're not extracting skunk essence. Just reminiscing.

Lumen

smacl wrote: »

Not a great idea, who takes responsibility for any passer by that gets accidentally exposed and has a vomiting fit and what if they happened to be young kids, elderly, sick etc...

I used to lock my bike to a gas pipe. Would I be liable if a Darwin award candidate blew themselves up with a disc cutter? I've no idea.

MB Lacey

smacl wrote: »

Not a great idea, who takes responsibility for any passer by that gets accidentally exposed and has a vomiting fit and what if they happened to be young kids, elderly, sick etc...

I'm assuming the chemical is only really noxious to the up close and personal person standing over the lock. How likely is it that children, elderly, sick would be standing right next to the person cutting the lock?
Valid point though.
If anyone other than the thief did get sick, I am sure the owner of the lock would be liable.

smacl

Lumen wrote: »

I used to lock my bike to a gas pipe. Would I be liable if a Darwin award candidate blew themselves up with a disc cutter? I've no idea.

No idea, but not quite the same thing as the gas pipe was there already. CCTV footage could be entertaining though. Maybe don't use one of your more expensive bikes...

OleRodrigo

Whats wrong with a D lock?

Wishbone Ash

MB Lacey wrote: »

....If anyone other than the theif did get sick, I am sure the owner of the lock would be liable.

The way things are going, you'd also be liable for any injuries caused to the potential thief.

Lumen

OleRodrigo wrote: »

Whats wrong with a D lock?

Can be cut through with a disc cutter in a few seconds.

tomasrojo

How pervasive is this problem for people using decent locks anyway? I mean in San Francisco, which was the focus of the Guardian article.

I'm sure there are thieves with angle grinders and so on, but most thieves (the usual argument goes) are opportunists with, at best, bolt cutters.

OleRodrigo

Lumen wrote: »

Can be cut through with a disc cutter in a few seconds.

True, but from a practical point of view they are a good deterrent as not many would-be thieves are brazen enough to use a disc cutter in broad daylight. On a busy street anyway.

NiallBoo

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

The way things are going, you'd also be liable for any injuries caused to the potential thief.

You could and you should, along with an assault conviction.

This isn't the US. We don't carry knives and guns, we put the welfare of others over our desire to have stuff. And if we don't, the courts remind us to.

Anyway, bottom line is that having that device here implies your intention to cause harm to someone. If someone is harmed by it then you've harmed someone in adeliberate and premeditated fashion. Yes the other person is an idiot, but still a person.

I wouldn't have one in the U.S. either.

check_six

I'm still thinking that there is a gap in the market for mounting a powerful web app activated, CO2 actuated harpoon in the seatpost of your bike. Bad guy takes your bike, you press the app based trigger, bad guy gets harpoon in the arse. You simply follow the screams to retrieve your pride and joy.

It's simple, it's effective, it's just the right side of inhumane. Beats the stink out of Skunk-o-lock-o if you ask me!

More details:

check_six wrote: »

On a slightly different note, if this week's Web Summit has taught me anything is that you need to innovate to bring in the megabucks. We need to rethink the nature of security, make it a little less passive and a little more active with a little bit of some kind of social media cloud based jiggerypokery added in.

Ladies and Gentlemen, what I'm proposing is a seat post concealing a CO2 actuated bad guy harpoon.
Step 1 - A bad guy cycles away on your pride and joy without your permission. The bad guy sensing circuitry will activate the device.
Step 2 - Some kind of webby appy social media wizardry happens and you are alerted on your smart device to 'spike', or 'harpoonerite' your launcher. (The boffins will figure out all these minor details, I'm just here for the big picture!).
Step 3 - Boom!!! Harpoon in the fundament for a surprised looking bad guy.
Step 4 - Aiieeee!! Follow sounds of distressed bad guy to collect your bike.

I'll let you all know when I launch the kickstarter campaign...!

Oh, if anyone can think of a snappy name for this device, please forward it on. There will of course be a carbon version for the weight conscious.

check_six wrote: »

Click to Spike!
Harpoon your way to bicycle security.






Warning! Ear plugs are recommended when retrieving your bike to drown out the howls of anguish of harpooned bad guys.

tomasrojo

NiallBoo wrote: »

Anyway, bottom line is that having that device here implies your intention to cause harm to someone. If someone is harmed by it then you've harmed someone in adeliberate and premeditated fashion. Yes the other person is an idiot, but still a person.

Yeah, I'm assuming that the use of anything that might restrict breathing will not be permitted. It's one thing to let police use such tactics in the context of crowd control, its another thing to deploy it in defence of a personal belonging.

MB Lacey

NiallBoo wrote: »

Anyway, bottom line is that having that device here implies your intention to cause harm to someone.

Not true.
The intention is to park my bike, lock it, have a lock which deters a theif from stealing my bike and so have a bike to come back to.

the world wonders

What happens when the maintenance worker cuts a bike off the no-bikes-allowed railing and gets a faceful of pepper spray? There are very good reasons why indiscriminate booby traps like this are illegal.

zarker

This looks promising

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2016/oct/21/bike-lock-developed-that-makes-thieves-immediately-vomit

"A man approaches a bicycle, handheld electric saw at the ready. He powers it on, starts to drill, and is shot in the face with a noxious spray that makes him vomit uncontrollably. This is the dream of the inventors of SkunkLock."

cython

zarker wrote: »

This looks promising

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2016/oct/21/bike-lock-developed-that-makes-thieves-immediately-vomit

"A man approaches a bicycle, handheld electric saw at the ready. He powers it on, starts to drill, and is shot in the face with a noxious spray that makes him vomit uncontrollably. This is the dream of the inventors of SkunkLock."

Already posted today: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057661762

odyssey06

Eh, won't the bike itself have an awful stink afterwards? Seems a bit M.A.D. (mutually assured destruction) to me...

"It also has economic implications for the thief. Our formula irreversibly ruins the clothes worn by the thief or any of the protection they may be wearing, and replacing these items is likely more expensive than the resale value of your stolen bike..."

What are the economic implications for cleaning up your bike!

Fian

odyssey06 wrote: »

Eh, won't the bike itself have an awful stink afterwards? Seems a bit M.A.D. (mutually assured destruction) to me...

"It also has economic implications for the thief. Our formula irreversibly ruins the clothes worn by the thief or any of the protection they may be wearing, and replacing these items is likely more expensive than the resale value of your stolen bike..."

What are the economic implications for cleaning up your bike!

True, though you would expect the chemicals are unlikely to penetrate metal/carbon in the same way as they would penetrate fabrics.

I would not buy this product and I would fully expect to be sued if I deployed it.

edit: That is my rational response. Doesn't mean i don't enjoy the idea of a bike thief getting a face full of this spray, or indeed being "spiked". Love teh logo for that btw.

The real thing to buy will be knock-off decals for ordinary D - Locks to make them look like a skunk lock.

All the deterrence, none of the inconvenient legal proceedings!

Beasty

Threads merged

Moflojo

The Skunklock is essentially an escalation of an arms race between bicycle owners and thieves, with the sinister element being that this escalation involves potential physical harm to the thief.

If physical harm & booby-trapping becomes fair game (the owners brought it into play) then what's to stop the thieves from fighting fire with fire?

Let's say I buy a Skunklock as a deterrant. Thief sees the lock and thinks "Well, I'm not going to cut through that" but he decides to loosen the nuts on my wheels or pops open my brakes as a kind of retaliation.

Arms races don't solve conflicts; they only serve to escalate them. The solution lies elsewhere.

Chuchote

If the SkunkLock included a notice: "This lock will spray a noxious, foul-smelling, vomit-inducing cloud in the face of anyone who tries to saw through it" would that be fair warning?

Also should definitely include a fluorescent element to dye the thief's hands, face and clothes.

If a work(wo)man has to cut it off railings and gets sprayed, s/he would definitely be able to sue the owner; that's different from a thief.

NiallBoo

Leaving aside what an asinine idea this is and that it would never be legal for sale here...

I think thieves would actually seek them out, deliberately getting sprayed so that they can sue for damages.
Much better pay-out than a stolen bike.

check_six

Moflojo wrote: »

Let's say I buy a Skunklock as a deterrant. Thief sees the lock and thinks "Well, I'm not going to cut through that" but he decides to loosen the nuts on my wheels or pops open my brakes as a kind of retaliation.

You don't check your brakes and QR levers/wheelnuts every time you get on your bike? :eek:

I may be a *little* paranoid, but you, Comrade, are far too trusting!





(Also, with the standard of bike racks I am forced to use, stuff does get jostled regularly)

Fian

2.—(1) A person shall be guilty of the offence of assault who, without lawful excuse, intentionally or recklessly—

(a) directly or indirectly applies force to or causes an impact on the body of another, or

(b) causes another to believe on reasonable grounds that he or she is likely immediately to be subjected to any such force or impact,

without the consent of the other.

(2) In subsection (1) (a), “force” includes—

(a) application of heat, light, electric current, noise or any other form of energy, and

(b) application of matter in solid liquid or gaseous form.

(3) No such offence is committed if the force or impact, not being intended or likely to cause injury, is in the circumstances such as is generally acceptable in the ordinary conduct of daily life and the defendant does not know or believe that it is in fact unacceptable to the other person.

(4) A person guilty of an offence under this section shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding £1,500 or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 6 months or to both.

Moflojo

check_six wrote: »

You don't check your brakes and QR levers/wheelnuts every time you get on your bike? :eek:

I may be a *little* paranoid, but you, Comrade, are far too trusting!

(Also, with the standard of bike racks I am forced to use, stuff does get jostled regularly)

No I don't, should I though? I'd be interested to know what percentage of cyclists actually take such precautions?

Exiled1

tomasrojo wrote: »

One of my housemates was sprayed by a baby juvenile skunk when I lived in Orange County. I cannot express how unbearable the stench was. I think she just threw her clothes out and washed a couple of dozen times. You used to be able to tell when a skunk had been run over on the freeway a couple of hundred metres away, because the smell carried so powerfully.

Anyway, I assume they're not extracting skunk essence. Just reminiscing.

Was 'skunked' many moons ago in New Jersey. Got a spray at 1-2m range from a skunk I had accidentally disturbed in a wooded area. To say the smell was unspeakable is an understatement. The fix was - burn the clothes, bath oneself in tomato juice. Two gallons of tomato juice served its purpose better than I could ever had imagined. It took days for the skunk residue to go away and I was recipient of many funny looks. Fortunately I was working mainly outdoors.

Chuchote

NiallBoo wrote: »

Leaving aside what an asinine idea this is and that it would never be legal for sale here...

I think thieves would actually seek them out, deliberately getting sprayed so that they can sue for damages.
Much better pay-out than a stolen bike.

Assuming any judge could stop laughing (while holding a hanky over face) for long enough to award damages of more than a farthing…

odyssey06

In the spirit of Terry Pratchett...
I think it's fierce cruel to the little skunk to keep him cooped up like that in the bike lock on the off chance he needs to spray a thief.

Hungrycol

Can they not just hold their nose and continue on their merry thievery?

If not and it's more noxious than that then we're talking chemical weapons, no?

Chuchote

Hungrycol wrote: »

Can they not just hold their nose and continue on their merry thievery?

If not and it's more noxious than that then we're talking chemical weapons, no?

As envisaged it's too extreme; I don't want to make even a bike thief vomit and fight for breath. But something that will make him noxious to all women for a couple of weeks, now you're talking.

magicbastarder

Chuchote wrote: »

If the SkunkLock included a notice: "This lock will spray a noxious, foul-smelling, vomit-inducing cloud in the face of anyone who tries to saw through it" would that be fair warning?

no. you can't bypass the law like that. no more than 'persons entering this property do so at their own risk' has much legal weight. you are inflicting harm or injury as a pre-emptive measure, which is illegal.

Hungrycol

magicbastarder wrote: »

no. you can't bypass the law like that. no more than 'persons entering this property do so at their own risk' has much legal weight. you are inflicting harm or injury as a pre-emptive measure, which is illegal.

I have often toyed with the idea of putting a guillotine on my shed door frame with some Indianan Jones type mechanism. Obtaining the raw materials has been my biggest obstacle so far but in hindsight it might also be illegal.

magicbastarder

as well as somewhat risky to you. as well as requiring the miscreant to enter your shed on his or her hands and knees, for the guillotine to function correctly as one.

Hungrycol

I wasn't fussy what kind of injury the guillotine I inflicted on the scroat as long as he left empty handed, or no handed.

tomasrojo

Funnily enough, Paul Morningstar, bike tool inventor extraordinaire, died when a booby trap he set up on his property went wrong. I had an entertaining email correspondence with him, and he seemed an extremely likeable man, but I guess he had paranoia problems.

omri

check_six wrote: »

I'm still thinking that there is a gap in the market for mounting a powerful web app activated, CO2 actuated harpoon in the seatpost of your bike. Bad guy takes your bike, you press the app based trigger, bad guy gets harpoon in the arse. You simply follow the screams to retrieve your pride and joy.

It's simple, it's effective, it's just the right side of inhumane. Beats the stink out of Skunk-o-lock-o if you ask me!

More details:

Imagine them russian hackers hack your harpoon while youre riding the bike. Bet youd sing a different toon then

tomasrojo

And there it is:

Explosive charges, noxious gas...it won't be long before we need the cycling equivalent of the Geneva Convention.

http://bikesnobnyc.blogspot.ie/2016/10/the-quiz-isnt-dead-its-just-pining-for.html

Chuchote

The maker, Daniel Itskowsky (sp?) was on the BBC World Service today at 6.25 and said the deterrent is rated food-grade; they're released when the thief has cut through 30% of the lock.

magicbastarder

That's a weird definition of food grade if it makes you vomit.

Nekarsulm

magicbastarder wrote: »

That's a weird definition of food grade if it makes you vomit.

"Food Grade" doesn't make something safe for humans.
How many people choke on a piece of meat, or drown in water?

I would buy one in a heart beat.

Chuchote

I'd buy one, but I'd prefer if it emitted a noxious, ineradicable, fluorescent, stinking mess, not under high pressure but just glooping horridly forth with enough rapidity to go over the thief's clothes and person.

magicbastarder

Nekarsulm wrote: »

"Food Grade" doesn't make something safe for humans.
How many people choke on a piece of meat, or drown in water?

ah, but they're mechanical issues with the food. and in the second instance not even when it's being consumed. this stuff is *designed* to make you vomit. it's its raison d'etre.

WindomEarle

Let's say I buy a Skunklock as a deterrant. Thief sees the lock and thinks "Well, I'm not going to cut through that" but he decides to loosen the nuts on my wheels or pops open my brakes as a kind of retaliation.

More likely that the thief moves on to the bike next door and whips that instead. These guys just want the cash they are going to get by selling the bike. They don't have time for retaliation.