Dreading meeting

LegacyUser

I am having awful trouble in work. I only started in the company a few months ago as I was impressed with the pay they were offering for a role I was then doing for considerably less.

There were many warning signs that told me not to accept the job but I foolishly ignored them. It is a small office with seven employees. The person I replaced did not leave on good terms. He stated that he was being bullied and that the environment is awful. Obviously I did not pass much remarks either way.
However the day I started my manager took me to a nearby bar and told me that the guy who was leaving is a psycho and not to listen to whatever he says. The trainee manager told me that the guy was on antidepressants as he suffers with depression and recently came off of them and that everything he says he's experienced is only in his head. They told me that they only kept him around to use him until they found a better replacement and that he is a selfish bastard who's marriage is falling apart and he takes it out in work.They have often remarked about how he is not well in the head and should go back on the happy pills.

Fast forward three months and I am really feeling picked on and ridiculed. I've been so down in the dumps and I dread going to work. I feel constant anxiety. I was initially told I was doing really well and only two days later I was called into the office and told I need to improve. I was really confused but carried on anyway. The day after that I was called into the office again this time with the manager and the trainee manager. Again I was told to improve.

So I put in hours of overtime and took on way more than I should have and was told the improvement was brilliant and keep it up etc because they wanted to keep me there and not to let them down.

Then the trainee manager started texting me at night about clients and files and the likes. I could never switch off. She has since pulled me into the office and given out to me for things that the other supervisor has told me to do. Then when I was able to prove I was instructed to do it she changed the issue to ''yeah well it's not how we usually do it and you should have told me anyway. Besides you probably have the staff thinking you're incompetent now. They might be nice to your face but God knows what they say behind your back''. I was stunned at this as all feedback from employees and my direct line manager was fine.

She pulled me into the office again yesterday with a list of things she wasn't happy with. 4 out of the 6 things she mentioned had been completed by me and signed off by my line manager. She said that the last time she looked it wasn't complete so it doesn't matter that it was completed by the time she spoke to me. She said she thinks I'm not 'getting the job'. I finally argued back and instead of getting upset I told her that four out of the six issues she just brought up are non issues and that the other manager would agree as she signed off on them.

So now today I've been invited to a formal disciplinary meeting by letter for gross misconduct over the 6 issues she mentioned to me yesterday.

I just want to leave but have no other income and I am dreading my disciplinary meeting because she is just not reasonable. She keeps saying things like ''I dont mean to be picking on you but I don't think you understand your job'', and her favourite, ''I shouldn't have to pick on you all the time to do things right''.

twill

The Work and Jobs forum would be able to give you specific advice, but I'd advise consulting a solicitor specialising in employment law at once.

Merkin

Have you completed your probationary period? They could be trying to get rid of you on fairly spurious grounds.Do you have dates of when all these things happened and did you make any notes, even emailing a friend or what have you? It's always good to try and have a timeline of what's happening. I think you might get a better response over in Work & Jobs, shall we move the thread for you?

LegacyUser

I am only there 13 weeks now so still in the probationary period. Therefore I think there is no real point in seeking legal assistance as workers in the probationary period have very little comeback.
Kicking myself now for leaving my previous job as I had been there four years and was very secure. I felt confident and satisfied that I had done a good job there whereas now I am constantly holding my breath waiting to be pulled up on something.

Thank you for the offer of moving to the jobs forum. That would be great

Fakediamond

This all sounds like over the top behaviour by so called managers. Can you postpone the meeting until you can get professional advice?

LegacyUser

These people sound like absolute horrors to be anywhere near, never mind work for. You shouldn't have to tolerate such abuse in any circumstance. Have you contacted the company's HR department about this? As for your meeting, I know it's intimidating, but if you yourself know that you're doing your job in a competent and efficient manner then they can't hurt you, no matter the outcome of any meeting. Your manager sounds like a malicious bully and bullies only win if they succeed in making you doubt yourself, so please don't let her do that.

Stay strong and good luck!

Wompa1

Document everything, Hopefully you've been sending e-mails after these meetings with mention of what was discussed. I would send an to your HR to note everything in case you are terminated.

If possible make sure there's no sensitive info in the e-mails, send yourself a copy to an external e-mail address in case they deny everything later.

My extra advice. Working for such a small company is a bag of sh1t. I got fired back in June after about 9 months in a small startup. Similar to you, I was getting messages and call at all hours. I was expected to reply instantly. My son was born on a Sunday, I was back at work at 7am Monday morning. I was let go via e-mail whilst on a plane back to Ireland for a 2 week holiday that they weren't happy about. There was no probation period for me, I was in the US so I had no rights Even now, I get anxiety hearing a Skype IM coming in. It's not worth it, if they don't fire you, you should get your CV out there!

Good luck!

Clampdown

Might be wrong but I believe normally you are allowed to have a co-worker attend a disciplinary meeting along with you so there is at least a witness to what is said.

Tough situation OP, would there be any way to return to your old job. I know it's less money but working under bullies (small businesses in Ireland are full of them!) will take a toll on your mental health.

The fact that they are trying to make you fearful of what other employees are saying behind your back is ridiculous, especially considering they were the ones sharing private info about the mental health and home life of the guy you replaced! Such a red flag but what coud you do at that stage.

shopper2011

You have nothing to fear from a disciplinary meeting. It sounds to me you are doing a good job.
Go to the meeting and tell the truth, and be yourself. Try not to allow yourself to be intimadated and continue doing a good job. Be a little confident in the meetings and stick to the positives without coming off as a victim.
Bullies seek out victims.
If the job falls through, then is absolutly for the best.l

uck51js9zml2yt

If there is a colleague you trust bring them as a witness. They can say nothing but can take notes.

Have you spoken to your line manager. This trainee sounds like a ....well....train wreck!

Eire Go Brach

Write everything down. You sound like you have confidence in your own abilities. The Managment sounds like they don't communicate and are both in a power struggle.

Also by the sound of things. They do not have you on "gross misconduct" that would be different all together.

LegacyUser

In the letter they gave me it says my failure to update staff files in the three day time frame was gross misconduct.
it also states that me training a new employee was gross misconduct because she claimed we didn't need that employee to begin that day. Yet all of this was cleared with both of them while I was doing it all!! It's crazy.

It says on my letter that the outcome of the meeting can be dismissal and there is info attached about apeaking the decision.

I thought you are at least invited to an investigatory meeting prior to disciplinary meetings? Maybe it's not applicable during probation though.
I've never worked for a small company before. It's been an eye opener!

Grandeeod

workworries wrote: »

I am only there 13 weeks now so still in the probationary period. Therefore I think there is no real point in seeking legal assistance as workers in the probationary period have very little comeback.
Kicking myself now for leaving my previous job as I had been there four years and was very secure. I felt confident and satisfied that I had done a good job there whereas now I am constantly holding my breath waiting to be pulled up on something.

Thank you for the offer of moving to the jobs forum. That would be great

Contrary to the myth, workers have many rights during the probationary period.

LOLA08

if you got on well in your last job, maybe there is a possibility that you could go back and see if the job is still open?
if you don't ask you will never know, and even if it is not they may have another position vacant or keep you in mind for any future positions. It may sound like an odd thing to do, but I know of situations like the one you are in and the ex employer took them back, because they were good at there jobs.

uck51js9zml2yt

Not all small firms are nutters. Worked for a small office. It was the best job I ever had.

Mrs OBumble

OP, start by calling your old boss - is there any chance of going back there?

If not, then start serious job hunting. You need to get away from these clowns ASAP. In the meantime, continue to think of them as clowns, and do not value their opinions at all.

Brace yourself for the fact that they will likely tell the next person about your (imaginary) mental health issues. But be reassured that there are probably lots of people in the industry who know what they're up to and won't believe a word of it.

If you are mentally strong enough, string them along, document everything, and have some fun in court. But it will cost you up-front for a lawyer, though, and is very mentally taxing. I've walked away from a psycho boss before, and feel no shame about it - the personal price of "justice" would have been wayyy too high.

Fakediamond

Found this on Citizens Information website just now:

Conduct
As a ground for fair dismissal the term conduct covers a very large area of behaviour. There is a need to distinguish between gross misconduct and ordinary instances of misconduct.

Gross misconduct may give rise to instant (summary) dismissal without notice or pay in lieu of notice. Examples of gross misconduct include assault, drunkenness, stealing, bullying or serious breach of your employer's policies and practices. Your contract of employment may contain further information concerning gross misconduct.

Ordinary instances of misconduct may be a series of minor incidents which, when taken together, are enough to warrant dismissal, although your employer is obliged to give you notice or pay in lieu of notice in this type of situation.

Your employer will need to investigate each situation adequately to obtain all the facts of the case. Except in cases of gross misconduct, you must have been given appropriate warnings about your conduct and been made aware that dismissal might result if the problems continue. If this has been done, the dismissal is fair, because you have been given a chance to improve your conduct.

The Workplace Relations Commission's Code of Practice: Grievance and Disciplinary Procedures states that employers should have written grievance and disciplinary procedures and they should give employees copies of these at the start of their employment. Under the unfair dismissals legislation employers are required to give the employee in written notice of the procedures to be followed before an employee is dismissed. This must be done within 28 days of entering the contract of employment.

Eire Go Brach

So how did you get on?

In all fairness they sound like idiots and have not got a clue about employment laws. They just wanna run someone into the ground.

I know it does not make things better for you. But, all they have to say is that they are not happy with your performance. Rather than going down the gross misconduct route as you are not there long enough.

LegacyUser

I requested the meeting to be held earlier as I didn't want to wait all weekend worrying about it.
basically the examples of gross misconduct I'm accused of are things like filing errors (some of which were ongoing from prior to me starting the job there) and staffing issues. I stated how I had the go ahead from the other manager but she didn't seem to believe me and was fairly aggressive which I asked to be noted by the note taker.
I cannot believe I am being accused of something as serious as gross misconduct over filing errors. I have not abused any employee or stolen money or come into work drunk or anything like that. They are the actions I would consider gross misconduct.
I am so over this job. The female manager is a power freak who doesn't really know what she's doing and I dread thinking of what is being said about me. The things said about other employees are awful.
so would it be really odd to ask to be dismissed at this point so that I at least have the support of jobseekers while I try get another job?

If it was a bigger office I'd just suck it up and take the headache til I found something else but I can't face the open ridiculing and insults in front of everyone. It's horrible.

Eire Go Brach

She is off her head if she thinks that is gross misconduct. Maybe give her a lesson in gross misconduct by punching here

By the sound of things. No one will make this person happy. Can you go over her head?

fedupwiththem

fedupwiththem wrote: »

I requested the meeting to be held earlier as I didn't want to wait all weekend worrying about it.
basically the examples of gross misconduct I'm accused of are things like filing errors (some of which were ongoing from prior to me starting the job there) and staffing issues. I stated how I had the go ahead from the other manager but she didn't seem to believe me and was fairly aggressive which I asked to be noted by the note taker.
I cannot believe I am being accused of something as serious as gross misconduct over filing errors. I have not abused any employee or stolen money or come into work drunk or anything like that. They are the actions I would consider gross misconduct.
I am so over this job. The female manager is a power freak who doesn't really know what she's doing and I dread thinking of what is being said about me. The things said about other employees are awful.
so would it be really odd to ask to be dismissed at this point so that I at least have the support of jobseekers while I try get another job?

If it was a bigger office I'd just suck it up and take the headache til I found something else but I can't face the open ridiculing and insults in front of everyone. It's horrible.

Too late now, but I would have asked the manager who signed off on these things to be your witness in the meeting. I assume you were allowed bring a witness?

BetsyEllen

OP I would just let them fire you and sign on to jobseekers allowance whilst you look for a new role.

It's crap yes but in a few months it will all be behind you.

You need to get out of there ASAP, it sounds toxic and absolutely horrible for your mental health.

groovyg

workwoes wrote: »

However the day I started my manager took me to a nearby bar and told me that the guy who was leaving is a psycho and not to listen to whatever he says. The trainee manager told me that the guy was on antidepressants as he suffers with depression and recently came off of them and that everything he says he's experienced is only in his head. They told me that they only kept him around to use him until they found a better replacement and that he is a selfish bastard who's marriage is falling apart and he takes it out in work.They have often remarked about how he is not well in the head and should go back on the happy pills.

The alarm bells should have been ringing with you on the day they did this, bitching and giving out about a previous colleague is very unprofessional. Do you know or had you met the guy that you replaced? You need to get outta of there and start looking for another job asap

johnoreilly

First of all. They where bang out of order for telling you personal information about the old employee. How ever they maybe correct or incorrect about it. That still stands as being a data breech, And pure downright bad managment. Find a way to name and shame that companies authoritative people.
My advice is, the rot is already there. It more than likely will not get better, Look for a job asap dont put them down as a reference on your cv in fact ignore the fact you worked there. Then try speak to the old employee and take a case against them if you want to. But you cannot keep working in that rotten environment as it will effect your mental state of ability. Think how the old employee felt? Id say they mentally bet him up to a point he snapped.
Best of luck in the future.

sbsquarepants

I'd advise staying there and looking for another job - you may as well have an income coming in while you look. You know this job won't amount to anything so the stress won't be an issue - you aren't going to be killing yourself to impress anyone.
Come in, do your 9 to 5 or whatever, do your job during working hours as best you can, but don't take any after hours phone calls and so on - you'll be surprised how less stressful work is when you don't care about it and you know you're out the door as soon as the opportunity presents itself.

BetsyEllen

sbsquarepants wrote: »

I'd advise staying there and looking for another job - you may as well have an income coming in while you look. You know this job won't amount to anything so the stress won't be an issue - you aren't going to be killing yourself to impress anyone.
Come in, do your 9 to 5 or whatever, do your job during working hours as best you can, but don't take any after hours phone calls and so on - you'll be surprised how less stressful work is when you don't care about it and you know you're out the door as soon as the opportunity presents itself.

Good advice here. If you do end up staying whilst you look for a new job, block your bosses number so she can't call you after hours.
There is absolutely no need for her to contact you outside of the 9-5 you are paid to work and during that period, you're in the office and reachable by email or face-to-face.

If questioned, just be vague and say your phone is broken.

LegacyUser

What you are describing is exactly an experience I had in a job a few years ago.

At the start they criticise other people to you, making you feel "in the gang", they praise you so that you feel you are doing great. Then the rot sets in with constant criticism and slagging you off to others and making you doubt your every move.

It's nothing to do with you, it's just the way they are and you need to remember that. They will be doing this to employees until the business closes down. Where I worked a select few of us went through this process every few months on rotation, until we all left one by one!

If you can go in & not care about your job then continue working there until you find another job. Contacting your old employer might be no harm also. However if you take all this to heart then you would be better off getting out as it will wreck your spirit and your confidence for future jobs.

On another note, did they give you a contract when you started which detailed what "gross misconduct" . If they didn't ask them for it. However as you are still on probation they can pretty much dismiss you for no reason unfortunately. This might be a blessing in disguise by the way they are behaving though!!

TheRiverman

BetsyEllen wrote: »

Good advice here. If you do end up staying whilst you look for a new job, block your bosses number so she can't call you after hours.
There is absolutely no need for her to contact you outside of the 9-5 you are paid to work and during that period, you're in the office and reachable by email or face-to-face.

If questioned, just be vague and say your phone is broken.

Wrong advice about the phone,telling lies will not help.

BetsyEllen

TheRiverman wrote: »

Wrong advice about the phone,telling lies will not help.

What part is wrong, saying their phone is broken?
If the OP was looking to resolve the issues and stay in the job then yes, this approach would be wrong.

But the manager sounds like an absolute c-u-next Tuesday who there is no reasoning with. The OP needs to leave the job, it's awful, so this is a short term solution until they are gone.

gandalf

I agree with everyone elses advice that you should record everything going forward. The problem here is the Trainee Manager and from the sounds of it she is the reason the other poor sod was in the state he was in.

Gross Misconduct is not something like Filing errors unless you cost the company a massive amount of revenue because of it and you deliberately made the error aware of the consequences. If they have put this in writing then they are very silly indeed. Accusing someone of Gross Misconduct is a very serious matter and I personally would take it as a slight on my character.

Unless you are "on call" I would ignore all contact from this Manager outside your normal working hours and I would let them know that you do not appreciate them encroaching on your free time calling you with work issues all the time. Start pushing back against them, the worst that will happen is you will lose your job and tbh it sounds like they are pushing you this way anyway. Stop putting up with their bullying and push the pressure back on them otherwise they will effect you mentally and that's not a good place to go.

The most important advice is to start looking immediately for a new job. They have a history of this behaviour and even if you do get them to back off they will resume it. Starting with your old employer would be a good start.

[added] BTW if it is still fresh in your mind put together a document with all the dates and times if possible of when you were praised and then when you go pulled up. The pattern emerging is that you are dealing with nearly bi-polar levels of management from this person. In the meeting go through it chronologically and ask them what kind of message are they giving you as an employee with these conflicting messages.

pilly

I've had a similar experience. Only hope you have is to start seriously looking for another job, anything at all just so you won't have a gap in your CV. If they dismiss you in the meantime, so be it, you can go straight on to the jobseekers and then find something. Please try to keep your sanity outside of work, don't worry about it as soon as you leave the building each evening. Other posters are correct, don't answer calls after work hours. You don't want to stay there so you've nothing more to lose really. I'm so sorry you're going through this but it will be over soon enough and you'll be the better person for it.

gandalf

Sorry just noticed when you originally posted this OP. I hope you didn't sign any document at that meeting you had. If they ask you to sign anything confirming the gross misconduct refuse.

Is this company just this office of 7 people or is there other areas of function as well? Is there an owner of this business because it sounds to me that their people/agents are mismanaging this area and are probably costing him money and resources doing so.

pilly

No point of even thinking about going down a legal route, not there long enough so don't spend time stressing over it. It's just damn bad luck that you landed in this hell hole.

cloudatlas

In this case I would go to my doc get off on stress leave for two weeks and use that time to search for another job. Those two sound like Lord and Lady ****wit.

Wanderer2010

Javon Elegant Child wrote: »

Not all small firms are nutters. Worked for a small office. It was the best job I ever had.

From bitter experience, small family owned businesses are hellish to work for.