Out of control Leilandii

CJmasgrande

My one acre garden is totally surrounded by 30yr old unmanaged Golden Leilandii.

One positive is good privacy, however there are lots of negatives like moss growing heavily on and around the house, the house is too shaded in winter making it cooker and damp.

I'm handy with a chainsaw so I'm planning on taking them down one by one, making firewood and possibly renting a chipper for the branches.

I'll try and upload a few photos soon just to show you the massive scale of the job. I reckon I'll work slowly take my time and may take me a year

Last year I priced the job of removal and chipping and I was quoted €10,000!!!!

Someone subjected I buy a 2nd hand chipper for the duration of the job and then sell it on after I'm complete.

magicbastarder

CJmasgrande wrote: »

I'm handy with a chainsaw

have you ever worked with a chainsaw over your head before? or are you planning to fell them first?

i don't know much about chainsaws except to have a respectful fear of them.

deandean

I saw a full load of leylandi completedly removed from around a garden, a couple of years back. It is a massive job and I could understand how you would be quoted 10k tbh. If you DIY it will probably take you a year or so.
Also there is the problem of the root stumps. Massive job again if you want them out.

CJmasgrande

magicbastarder wrote:

i don't know much about chainsaws except to have a respectful fear of them.

magicbastarder wrote:

have you ever worked with a chainsaw over your head before? or are you planning to fell them first?

I an a fully trained chainsaw operator for 20yrs.

The roots are currently pushing up the tarmac driveway.

Some people tell me to leave stumps at waist height so a machine can easily take out the stump. Others tell me cut to the bottom and cover the exposed stump with plastic and let it rot over time.

A2LUE42

The sheer volume of branches on those things is crazy compared to the usable firewood you may get.

Kristopherus

He could sell some of it. Though if he had a shed, he could fill it to the roof and have firewood for the foreseeable future.

Tefral

My parents house is surrounded by ones that are about 20feet high. We wanted to get access to a ditch at the back so i tried to dig one out with our 3 tonne machine. No joy. I ended up breaking out our 20 ton to get rid of it. The root system in these things are unbelievable.

They are the weed of the tree world!

magicbastarder

A2LUE42 wrote: »

The sheer volume of branches on those things is crazy compared to the usable firewood you may get.

i took a load of it down (15 foot tall max) and used a load of the branchwood for firewood, down to about an inch in diameter. you'd want to leave it to season for two years though.

smacl

CJmasgrande wrote: »

Last year I priced the job of removal and chipping and I was quoted €10,000!!!!

Maybe look for a few more quotes, 10k seems over the top. I had a large wind damaged Scotts pine taken down three years ago in Wexford, and it from memory it cost €600 which included cutting the trunk in sections large enough for me to later split into logs, and chipping and removal of other branches.

Even if you're good with a chainsaw (and working with one at height), you'd probably need some help taking down anything big.

smacl

magicbastarder wrote: »

i took a load of it down (15 foot tall max) and used a load of the branchwood for firewood, down to about an inch in diameter. you'd want to leave it to season for two years though.

Same, fine for an open fire but not great for a stove as it can create a lot sticky soot.

HeidiHeidi

"Sticky" is all I remember of leyllandii (sp?)

I had a small garden with them planted around and trimmed down into a hedge - it was a total nightmare to try and control! They just gummed up shears, loppers, hedge-trimmers with sticky sap - whatever I used wound up ruined.

I eventually paid someone to cut them down altogether and take them away - I can't imagine that wood ever drying out enough to use in a fire (although maybe it would after enough time, I'm open to correction on that). I was left with the roots though, but sold the house shortly afterwards so they became the new owner's problem

magicbastarder

for one of the rows of leylandii i took down, i left the stumps in, maybe 10 inches tall, and drilled into the top of them with a forstner bit to create a kind of flowerpot in some of them.

lazybones32

That's a lot of timber and work!

Get a 2nd and 3rd quote. If they're still in the same range, motor on yourself.

I'd suggest keeping the branches and twigs from the first tree only as kindling and discard/chip everything after that. I still have kindling in my shed from the L's I cut down years ago.

Make a few big piles of branches but you might need the bucket of a digger to break them into smaller pieces. Make sure you don't burn them early on a Saturday or Sunday morning before any neighbour gets up because that's illegal and you shouldn't do it.
Rent out your chipper but you'll need some place to dump or bury them after.


I don't envy the work that is ahead of you.

smacl

lazybones32 wrote: »

Rent out your chipper but you'll need some place to dump or bury them after.

I spread all the chips we created in another area of the garden where we had some trees and shrubs where the grass was patchy. Must have been a few tons, large diesel chipper working non-stop for a few days. Nice kind of foresty feel for about 18 months and then broke down and grassed over to what is now one of the nicest parts of the garden.

One thing I do remember was the chipper clogged quite often on the sappy evergreen foliage. Not a show stopper, but added a fair bit to the amount of work involved.

Genghis Cant

A problem you may encounter with them Leylandii if they were sown close together to form a hedge of sorts, is they grow into each other and intertwine. When you're knocking them they get hung up and don't fall where you want them. I'd a lot of them here to 55' tall and without a tractor and loader, and long wire rope to pull them we'd be still at them!

Where are you based? I'd know a man that does that sort of work.

CJmasgrande

I'm based in Clara, Co. Offaly. I kind of like the idea of taking my time and plugging away over then next year or two . Its nice rewarding work out in the fresh air. My only worry I have a bad back. I do love chainsaw work dropping 30feet high trees no problem to me.

recedite

I wouldn't be bothered with chipping branches or trying to remove the stumps. Just throw down the brashings on top of the stumps. If you are going to plant another hedge, its like a mulch, that you can plant through.
A hookaroon is meant to be a good tool for preserving your back. I have never used one though myself.

Hocus Focus

I had 15 of them, about 50 years old. I bought an electric chainsaw and started off on one particularly troublesome one, as an experiment. I could'nt just fell it straight away as it would have damaged two other good deciduous trees on the way down, so I had to do it bit by bit climbing up with a harness on and cutting off branches until I had it into shape to drop it down between the two other trees. I was then able to cut it up into slices for easier handling. The whole process occupied me every evening for about two weeks, I don't know how many actual hours, but I concluded that the quote of 7000 to remove the other 14, without stump-grinding, was not unreasonable.
The firewood from just two of those trees warmed ud for many years. Unfortunately, we still have not dealt with the stumps:(

looksee

I watched a professional team bring down a big tree in a neighbour's garden, might have been a leylandii I can't remember. I do know a team of two men up the tree/supervising, and three workers on the ground took about 6 hours to bring it down and cut and remove all the branches to the 'mincer' they had out the front. Granted they were working in a fairly confined space in a suburban back garden and had to take it down in sections, but they were not hanging about, I can see how it could be expensive.

ShiverinEskimo

Builder removed two 30ft Leilandii when clearing the site. Took a 20 ton digger to fell them and the guts of a day to dig the enormous root ball out. Whole site is on a plateau of slate-like rock. The roots had grown into every crack and crevasse - needed a mix of the bucket and rock breaker to get the whole lot out.

Meant I could wrap the new driveway around the house though.

Shefwedfan

I just done this, trees had been trimmed circa 20 years ago and never touched. I got a digger, tractor and trailer. Had a loader on front of digger which I could stand in and then lift up to fell the branchs when too close to house, had 3 people working for 5 days, drew everything away then to a dump using tractor, around 20 loads.....garden is a mess but all trees gone....majority of them we left the stumps and going to grow a hedge over them

gk5000

Amazing how many people have or are fighting Leilandii trees.

I have recently done a few 30 year old 30+feet tall, taking a full day each to cut down, cutup and store and burn the smaller branches ( in country so legal).

Still deciding what's the best way to get rid of the stumps. Anybody used a hired car boot portable stump-grinder? How long to do 16 to 20 inch diameter stumps?

CJmasgrande

Folks, in the next day or so I'll put in a YouTube video here where I'll do a walk through video showing the sheer scale of what lies ahead for me

Oldtree

Would be good to see video/photos, at least they're not 30 year old green leylandii, but from how you are talking they are substantial nonetheless.

Chills me to the bone, what DIY tree fellers will get up to :eek: or suggest to others what they have done in the past. Its one thing to fell a small tree, another to fell a large tree and quite another to work at height with a chainsaw dismantling a tree. The 3rd party insurance is also an issue, damage a neighbour or their property while DIYing and you pay.

It is an offence to burn any type of waste including garden waste. The giveaway is usually the big black smouldering burn area that remains and the councils love those.

The chips/shreadings would need to composted for a good number of months, as the heat generated by the composting process can damage plants by a kind of ringbarking, if the chips are spread while still fresh. I vaguely remember something about the composting process sucking nitrogen out of the soil too, but not 100% on that.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

gk5000 wrote: »

Amazing how many people have or are fighting Leilandii trees.

I have recently done a few 30 year old 30+feet tall, taking a full day each to cut down, cutup and store and burn the smaller branches ( in country so legal).

Still deciding what's the best way to get rid of the stumps. Anybody used a hired car boot portable stump-grinder? How long to do 16 to 20 inch diameter stumps?

County warden here told me you cannot burn branches or any vegetable waste in a rural area without a licence. Hence the farmers here apply when they want to do a burn.

gk5000

Conrad Rapping Motorboat wrote: »

County warden here told me you cannot burn branches or any vegetable waste in a rural area without a licence. Hence the farmers here apply when they want to do a burn.

Seriously worried about this country sometimes.

Anyway we're safe until Jan 1'st 2018
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2015/si/538/made/en/print

The purpose of these regulations is to extend until 1 January, 2018 an exemption provided for under the Waste Management (Prohibition of Waste Disposal by Burning) Regulations 2009 (S.I. 286 of 2009) as amended by the Waste Management (Prohibition of Waste Disposal by Burning) (Amendment) Regulations 2013 (S.I. 504 of 2013) which exists to allow farmers, as a last resort, to dispose of wastes generated by agricultural practices.

Edit to add: A farmer does not need a licence but is supposed to notify the county council in advance

Oldtree

I wouldn't worry at all, we are just being made responsible for our waste.

Farmers cannot burn green garden waste, they can only burn green waste generated by agricultural practices as a last resort and after filling out an application form to do so and only until 1st January 2018.

see here for a fuller explaination
http://www.mayococo.ie/en/Services/Environment/BackyardBurning/

Necessary perhaps to stop the fire brigade being called out and wasting their precious time.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Fact remains, you cannot legally burn garden waste.


Doesn't stop many us though.

gk5000

Oldtree wrote: »

I wouldn't worry at all, we are just being made responsible for our waste.

Farmers cannot burn green garden waste, they can only burn green waste generated by agricultural practices as a last resort and after filling out an application form to do so and only until 1st January 2018.

see here for a fuller explaination
http://www.mayococo.ie/en/Services/Environment/BackyardBurning/

Necessary perhaps to stop the fire brigade being called out and wasting their precious time.

Mayo CoCo are exceeding their authority (acting illegally - they should know better!) asking for proof, photographs, and OSI discovery maps etc.

The (legal) legislation only asks for a declaration, the address and proposed date.
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2009/si/286/made/en/print

Oldtree

gk5000 wrote: »

Mayo CoCo are exceeding their authority (acting illegally - they should know better!) asking for proof, photographs, and OSI discovery maps etc.

The (legal) legislation only asks for a declaration, the address and proposed date.
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2009/si/286/made/en/print

mmm not sure they are acting illegallly.....
I think you are presuming a visit to the site is not warranted or carried out before the burn.

I think this bit of the SI covers need to prove the proof bit:

v. disposal, where none of the options at (i) to (iv) above are practicable or economically viable

Photographs would perhaps save the council from a visit to the site.
Cant see how providing a map is different to providing an address.

gk5000

Oldtree wrote: »

mmm not sure they are acting illegallly.....
I think you are presuming a visit to the site is not warranted or carried out before the burn.

I think this bit of the SI covers need to prove the proof bit:



Photographs would perhaps save the council from a visit to the site.
Cant see how providing a map is different to providing an address.

Mayo CoCo are unquestionable acting illegally. They are making up rules and regulations which they are not entitled to do.
The SI is very clear that a declaration is sufficient. Many things may suit or save the council but may not suit or save the citizens whom they serve. - The Dail has stated the legal position.

I think Mayo farmers would not be bound by this illegal activity by the council and should instead burn at will.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

gk5000 wrote: »

Mayo CoCo are unquestionable acting illegally. They are making up rules and regulations which they are not entitled to do.
The SI is very clear that a declaration is sufficient. Many things may suit or save the council but may not suit or save the citizens whom they serve. - The Dail has stated the legal position.

I think Mayo farmers would not be bound by this illegal activity by the council and should instead burn at will.

The council are perfectly entitled in this case to enact a bye law.

gk5000

Conrad Rapping Motorboat wrote: »

The council are perfectly entitled in this case to enact a bye law.

Maybe, but they have not, or have not quoted it.

magicbastarder

gk5000 wrote: »

Mayo CoCo are unquestionable acting illegally.

'illegal' implies they are doing something specifically forbidden by law. is there a law which states they cannot ask what they are asking for?
there's a difference between them asking for evidence over and above the minimum prescribed by law, and them actually breaking the law itself.

i think you're confusing them asking for information which is not prescribed by the law, and them acting illegally.

Oldtree

gk5000 wrote: »

I think Mayo farmers would not be bound by this illegal activity by the council and should instead burn at will.

Oh dear oh dear. Are you the one from kerry without the hat?

gk5000

magicbastarder wrote: »

'illegal' implies they are doing something specifically forbidden by law. is there a law which states they cannot ask what they are asking for?
there's a difference between them asking for evidence over and above the minimum prescribed by law, and them actually breaking the law itself.

i think you're confusing them asking for information which is not prescribed by the law, and them acting illegally.

Just because you may agree with the council does not make it right or legal. There are many who disagree, which is why laws are very specific.
The Dail has prescribed what is legal and anything beyond that is not legal or in other words illegal.

Even a guard could not demand photos or evidence from you without a warrant or court order. The same laws which protect you from excessive or arbitrary police power and intrusion also protect you from the whims of the council. It is simply illegal.

Back on topic - has anybody any experience of hired stump grinders?

Flipperdipper

Can someone explain to me why it is illegal to burn timber (branches) outside but no problem if I cut them smaller and bring them inside and burn them in the fire. Do they magically transform into something else the moment I carry them over the threshold?

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Flipperdipper wrote: »

Can someone explain to me why it is illegal to burn timber (branches) outside but no problem if I cut them smaller and bring them inside and burn them in the fire. Do they magically transform into something else the moment I carry them over the threshold?

The argument used is that the high chimney expels the pollutants higher for better dispersal and the volume in a single burn is less in a fireplace.

magicbastarder

gk5000 wrote: »

The Dail has prescribed what is legal and anything beyond that is not legal or in other words illegal.

eh... no.
generally, the law prescribes what is *illegal*.
any law which had to list what is legal would be a very, very, very long piece of text.
if i (random example) high fived a friend earlier, what would make that legal is that there is no law saying it is illegal, rather than there being a law saying it is legal.

ShiverinEskimo

Stoves and fireplaces burn much much hotter than an outdoor fire. Much more of the gases and pollutants get burned reducing the amount of hydrocarbons given off.

This is particularly so in a stove and almost completely so in a gasification boiler set up.

Also, leaves aren't burned in a stove but usually are outside. Greenery gives off much blacker, carbon-filled smoke compared to dry wood.

magicbastarder

Conrad Rapping Motorboat wrote: »

The argument used is that the high chimney expels the pollutants higher for better dispersal and the volume in a single burn is less in a fireplace.

may not be a regulatory issue, but for a small burn, a fireplace is a more efficient - i.e. hotter - way of burning things, thus resulting in a much cleaner burn.

recedite

Conrad Rapping Motorboat wrote: »

The argument used is that the high chimney expels the pollutants higher for better dispersal and the volume in a single burn is less in a fireplace.

Eh.. No. The chimney of a cottage could easily be lower than a bonfire on a high bank behind it.

This is actually the legal miracle of transubstantiation. When you carry sticks and branches across the threshold, they transubstantiate from being "vegetative waste" to being "domestic fuel".
So, although the substance of the material remains unchanged in a purely physical sense, it is utterly transformed in an existentialist sense.

Hope that helps.......

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

recedite wrote: »

Eh.. No. The chimney of a cottage could easily be lower than a bonfire on a high bank behind it.

This is actually the legal miracle of transubstantiation. When you carry sticks and branches across the threshold, they transubstantiate from being "vegetative waste" to being "domestic fuel".
So, although the substance of the material remains unchanged in a purely physical sense, it is utterly transformed in an existentialist sense.

Hope that helps.......

And eh..no back to you. I said the reason given. Not what is actual. Just as easily, the fire site could be in a hollow and the house two stories high on a hill. Let's get real here.

gk5000

magicbastarder wrote: »

eh... no.
generally, the law prescribes what is *illegal*.
any law which had to list what is legal would be a very, very, very long piece of text.
if i (random example) high fived a friend earlier, what would make that legal is that there is no law saying it is illegal, rather than there being a law saying it is legal.

In this case the law states what the council may request - and that does not include photos or evidence -merely a declaraion.
The council are a statuary body and are bound by rules and laws to protect the citizens even if some appear to not realise it. Read the rest of what I wrote above.

"Even a guard could not demand photos or evidence from you without a warrant or court order. The same laws which protect you from excessive or arbitrary police power and intrusion also protect you from the whims of the council. It is simply illegal."

Edit to add - Please read the actual law before commenting - its quoted above but here it is again. http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2009/si/286/made/en/print

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

gk5000 wrote: »

In this case the law states what the council may request - and that does not include photos or evidence -merely a declaraion.
Read the rest of what I stated above. The council are a statuary body and are bound by rules and laws to protect the citizens even if some appear to not realise it. Read the rest of what I wrote above.

"Even a guard could not demand photos or evidence from you without a warrant or court order. The same laws which protect you from excessive or arbitrary police power and intrusion also protect you from the whims of the council. It is simply illegal."

What relevance has any of this to gardening? The only derogation to burning waste applies to agriculture and even then excludes a farmer's garden waste.

gk5000

Conrad Rapping Motorboat wrote: »

What relevance has any of this to gardening? The only derogation to burning waste applies to agriculture and even then excludes a farmer's garden waste.

Because someone jumped down my throat for stating I burned the branches.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

gk5000 wrote: »

Because someone jumped down my throat for stating I burned the branches.

And were they agricultural waste? If they were then fine once notice was given. But illegal if from your garden.

The lelandii in question were domestic garden waste.

gk5000

Conrad Rapping Motorboat wrote: »

And were they agricultural waste? If they were then fine once notice was given. But illegal if from your garden.

The lelandii in question were domestic garden waste.

Yes an agricultural shelter belt gone overboard.

Oldtree

gk5000 wrote: »

I have recently done a few 30 year old 30+feet tall, taking a full day each to cut down, cutup and store and burn the smaller branches ( in country so legal).

It would be paranoid to think anyone jumped down your throat about your above reply. We now know your reply was not clear as it had no mention of agricultural waste, nor of an application to the councl to burn said agricultural waste. Your reply did impy burning green waste in a garden given the context of the thread. Clarification on such a remark is not a bad idea on an open gardening forum.

ps did you get a felling licence? as its illegal to fell a tree over 10 years old thats over 100 feet from a dwelling.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

gk5000 wrote: »

Yes an agricultural shelter belt gone overboard.

Why did you not say so?. We were discussing a Gardening issue.

gk5000

Conrad Rapping Motorboat wrote: »

Why did you not say so?. We were discussing a Gardening issue.

We were discussing "Out of control Leilandii" as per the title, and how to deal with them. You may or may not stop the pettiness - it's up to you, and that other....

Edit to add: It's an agricultural shelter belt between a house and a farm (not uncommon) - are all the little nit-pickers happy?

Meanwhile, I would be delighted to hear of anyone's experience of a rented stump grinder.