Why is there only ever one or two female pacers?

joesoap5

I noticed members of the public commenting on FB about the fact that there 30 odd male pacers and 2 female. In the past there has been none or one.

The reason given was that it depends on who applies.

Surely there must be some women out there who are interested in pacing?

RayCun

Most women have more sense

(Pacers are drawn mostly from those who run multiple marathons a year, and they are disproportionately men)

joesoap5

RayCun wrote: »

Most women have more sense

(Pacers are drawn mostly from those who run multiple marathons a year, and they are disproportionately men)

Where are they 'drawn' from?

RayCun

joesoap5 wrote: »

Where are they 'drawn' from?

this forum originally (the pacers' subforum to be precise)

as you can see, most of the pacers for this year are boardsies
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=101374639&postcount=4906

PaulieC

the male pacers don't look that odd

joesoap5

RayCun wrote: »

this forum originally (the pacers' subforum to be precise)

as you can see, most of the pacers for this year are boardsies
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=101374639&postcount=4906

Maybe you need to broaden your horizons beyond Boards to get a bit of gender balance in 2016. I'm pretty sure more than two females run multiple marathons a year.

RayCun

joesoap5 wrote: »

Maybe you need to broaden your horizons beyond Boards to get a bit of gender balance in 2016. I'm pretty sure more than two females run multiple marathons a year.

Did I say that only two females run multiple marathons a year? No, I didn't.
I said those running multiple marathons a year are mostly men.

average_runner

joesoap5 wrote: »

Maybe you need to broaden your horizons beyond Boards to get a bit of gender balance in 2016. I'm pretty sure more than two females run multiple marathons a year.

Lets keep this simple. If a woman wants to be a pacer, then she would surely know how to contact Dublin marathon and they will send her to boards.

If she can't manage that much, then she doesn't want to be a pacer.

Its not up to the people in charge of pacers to go looking for them, its up to the pacers to step forward.

Now lets get back on track, I wonder will the wife have my running gear washed for tomorrow.

joesoap5

RayCun wrote: »

Did I say that only two females run multiple marathons a year? No, I didn't.
I said those running multiple marathons a year are mostly men.

Did I say you said?

Really you honestly need to look beyond Boards if you're having a poor reception for female requests.

RayCun

average_runner

Is that a female or male troll?

Gavlor

joesoap5 wrote: »

Maybe you need to broaden your horizons beyond Boards to get a bit of gender balance in 2016. I'm pretty sure more than two females run multiple marathons a year.

You're bang on. They should really do the same from a stewarding perspective. I've also noticed over the years that there is a huge imbalance in favour of females at the water stations. Is that males don't want to hand out water?

joesoap5

RayCun wrote: »

So you don't like the post Ray?

Are you calling me a troll because you have no valid reason for choosing male pacers?

Krusty_Clown

joesoap5 wrote: »

Are you calling me a troll because you have no valid reason for choosing male pacers?

...and while you're at it Ray, why aren't there more female Dalai lamas? Why are you choosing only male Dalai Lamas? Please rectify this imbalance immediately and take a broader world view in future.

joesoap5

The usual suspects turning in their comments.

Krusty_Clown

joesoap5 wrote: »

The usual suspects turning in their comments.

Yep, I'm with you... Damn them all to hell...

Wait.. You do realize that Ray doesn't have anything to do with organizing the pacers? Oh.. You didn't... Oh... Right...

joesoap5

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Yep, I'm with you... Damn them all to hell...

Wait.. You do realize that Ray doesn't have anything to do with organizing the pacers? Oh.. You didn't... Oh... Right...

Well he certainly thinks he does since she responding to all the questions.

Check in with Ray buddy.

RayCun

joesoap5 wrote: »

Well he certainly thinks he does since she responding to all the questions.

Check in with Ray buddy.

:pac:

you know, I actually directed you to a post by the person who really does organise the pacers. and this is the thanks I get

Firedance

joesoap5 wrote: »

Well he certainly thinks he does since she responding to all the questions.

Check in with Ray buddy.

In fairness most people on here know the answer to your question, it doesn't mean any of them are involved in DCM. There's no conspiracy, as Ray said if you're interested in pacing DCM you/one should contact them directly. I understand there are some criteria but gender isn't one of them.

joesoap5

Firedance wrote: »

In fairness most people on here know the answer to your question, it doesn't mean any of them are involved in DCM. There's no conspiracy, as Ray said if you're interested in pacing DCM you/one should contact them directly. I understand there are some criteria but gender isn't one of them.

Contrary to what you believe the numers speK for themselves and it is very much a gender issue and your average Joe or Josephine soap does not know about the running section in boards.

joesoap5

RayCun wrote: »

:pac:

you know, I actually directed you to a post by the person who really does organise the pacers. and this is the thanks I get

Was this before or after you insulted me?

average_runner

joesoap5 wrote: »

Contrary to what you believe the numers speK for themselves and it is very much a gender issue and your average Joe or Josephine soap does not know about the running section in boards.

Can you back this up? Can you prove that a load of women applied and didnt get the pacer job?

Unless you can, maybe you should do some research and get your facts correct.

nhunter100

joesoap5 wrote:

Surely there must be some women out there who are interested in pacing?

I've paced 9 marathons this year, by and large it's predominantly men who pace. Women just don't seem interested in the whole, nothing got to do with bias or gender. There are a few women ( only 4 that I meet at events) who pace on a regular basis, it's up to the individual to put themselves forward to race directors to Pace. Btw there are other marathons on Ireland not just DCM.

joesoap5

average_runner wrote: »

Can you back this up? Can you prove that a load of women applied and didnt get the pacer job?

Unless you can, maybe you should do some research and get your facts correct.

You are misunderstanding the reply. The numbers I'm referring to are the pacer numbers. The general public have noticed from the pictures the 34 pacers are male and two are female.

This isn't just relating to DCM, this is any race using pacers controlled by Boardo.

Is that enough evidence?

nhunter100

joesoap5 wrote:

This isn't just relating to DCM, this is any race using pacers controlled by Boardo.

Paced Manchester in April last, only 2 female pacers. Paced Berlin last month, 4 pacers per time band only 4 female pacers over all. Neither marathon anything got to do with boards. :-)

Thewitheredowl

This isn't just relating to DCM, this is any race using pacers controlled by Boardo.

Is that enough evidence?

I don't know if you are male/female but are you braindead or what? If anybody out there wants to pace a marathon, they contact said marathon and will be pointed in the right direction regarding how to apply and qualifying criteria etc.

If you see a higher percentage of men doing the gig then that is a reflection of more men wanting to do it. If you and the 'general public' can't get your head around that then we are all really sorry to offend you.

Clown

joesoap5

Thewitheredowl wrote: »

I don't know if you are male/female but are you braindead or what? If anybody out there wants to pace a marathon, they contact said marathon and will be pointed in the right direction regarding how to apply and qualifying criteria etc.

If you see a higher percentage of men doing the gig then that is a reflection of more men wanting to do it. If you and the 'general public' can't get your head around that then we are all really sorry to offend you.

Clown

Why are you name calling. You're letting yourself down absolutely no need for it unless you're a woman hater?

Cabaal

You know how I found out about getting to do a pacing gig?

It wasn't through boards.ie (even though I'm on boards.ie), it was through meeting people at races and talking to them.

The multi-marathon community (lets face it if you want to pace you've run a few marathons) is relatively small and welcoming community in Ireland. There's no blocks in place for women in the community from getting pacing gigs.

As long as they can meet the pacing requirements thats all it takes, (have you run a specific time in a marathon in the last x months)

KielyUnusual

They should really make it a requirement for DCM pacers to be primary school teachers. That way, men would become teachers in order to experience the joy of becoming marathon pacers and there would be a higher relative quota of women that would be eligible for pacing marathons. Therefore all these wicked gender imbalances would be sorted out in one fail swoop.

joesoap5

nhunter100 wrote: »

Paced Manchester in April last, only 2 female pacers. Paced Berlin last month, 4 pacers per time band only 4 female pacers over all. Neither marathon anything got to do with boards. :-)

I like your responses nhunter, you sound like an intelligent, sensitive and well rounded character but I cant help but wonder if you're smile towards the end of your post is self satisfaction that points out that this isn't a boards problem.

It is indeed a boards problem and just because there's no female pacers in other races doesn't make it okay.

Does it hunter?

nhunter100

joesoap5 wrote:

I like your responses nhunter, you sound like an intelligent, sensitive and well rounded character but I cant help but wonder if you're smile towards the end of your post is self satisfaction that points out that this isn't a boards problem.

The smile is just what it is a smile, boards doesn't have a say in most marathons in this country and certainly none in international marathons. It is entirely up to people to put themselves forward that more men do it than women is no one's fault other than those unwilling to step up.

ger664

Most females that would qualify to pace 3:30 and under would probably be in the prize money or win age category medals if they raced it instead.

I would suspect however its because they dont like been called <snip>

average_runner

joesoap5 wrote: »

You are misunderstanding the reply. The numbers I'm referring to are the pacer numbers. The general public have noticed from the pictures the 34 pacers are male and two are female.

This isn't just relating to DCM, this is any race using pacers controlled by Boardo.

Is that enough evidence?

Unless you can prove that women are offering to pace, you have no.argument. So can you prove this?

Firedance

Firedance wrote: »

In fairness most people on here know the answer to your question, it doesn't mean any of them are involved in DCM. There's no conspiracy, as Ray said if you're interested in pacing DCM you/one should contact them directly. I understand there are some criteria but gender isn't one of them.

joesoap5 wrote: »

Contrary to what you believe the numers speK for themselves and it is very much a gender issue and your average Joe or Josephine soap does not know about the running section in boards.

I'll say it again I think, just to be clear. Anyone wishing to pace DCM should contact DCM. DCM is not organised by boards.ie. You don't need to know about boards.ie to pace any marathon.

The running community is one of the most inclusive I've even been part of, from my POV (as a woman) you can be as involved (or not) as you wish, all you have to do is ask.

robinph

@Joesoap5: Do you have any evidence of women being turned down for pacing marathons?

RacoonQueen

robinph wrote: »

@Joesoap5: Do you have any evidence of women being turned down for pacing marathons?

As far as I'm aware, more women turn down the pacing offer than get turned down when they offer to pace, but hey, why let facts get in the way.

joesoap5

RacoonQueen wrote: »

As far as I'm aware, more women turn down the pacing offer than get turned down when they offer to pace, but hey, why let facts get in the way.

How is it RQ that I got a warning for a comment I made to Krusty that was totally in-offensive about Ray (a guy from your running club) there earlier but the guy who was name calling didn't get reprimanded and how come you're adding fuel to the fire by handing out warnings and then getting involved in the debate yourself.

Is there a pattern on this forum I wonder?

Is this a fair forum?

Amirani

What difference does it make?

RacoonQueen

joesoap5 wrote: »

How is it RQ that I got a warning for a comment I made to Krusty that was totally in-offensive about Ray (a guy from your running club) there earlier but the guy who was name calling didn't get reprimanded and how come you're adding fuel to the fire by handing out warnings and then getting involved in the debate yourself.

Is there a pattern on this forum I wonder?

Is this a fair forum?

Forum charter states ''Do not argue mod decisions on thread"

Verbal warning. One and only you are getting.

Oops69

joesoap5 wrote: »

Maybe you need to broaden your horizons beyond Boards to get a bit of gender balance in 2016. I'm pretty sure more than two females run multiple marathons a year.

The ' boardsies' as they seem to call themselves and Dcm obviously have a cosy little relationship going on.

Cabaal

Oops69 wrote: »

The ' boardsies' as they seem to call themselves and Dcm obviously have a cosy little relationship going on.

Yeah, I'm sure there's millions changing hands :pac:

RayCun

None of the mods are in my club, neither is Krusty or anyone else commenting on this thread, and neither are any of the pacers. Apart from that, yes, all one cosy cabal.

tang1

Oops69 wrote: »

The ' boardsies' as they seem to call themselves and Dcm obviously have a cosy little relationship going on.

You wouldn't like the pacers off Boards, too many with hairy shoulders & backs!!!

Trampas

Maybe a few had a sex change (I'm sure Um1 might have a few suspicions) or they don't fancy the hookers they get for pacing.

Or the women just want to race instead of having a load of sweaty men hanging out of them for a few hours as sick of it on a weekend in the pub.

Joe maybe you should ring Joe about it.

joesoap5

Cabaal wrote: »

Yeah, I'm sure there's millions changing hands :pac:

Don't underestimate how important it is for some people to be in control and in charge, be it their hobby or whatever floats their boat.

Its all some people have since they're obviously not making big bucks if they're spending half their time on forums or in an admin job.

HS3

joesoap5 wrote: »

average_runner wrote: »

Can you back this up? Can you prove that a load of women applied and didnt get the pacer job?

Unless you can, maybe you should do some research and get your facts correct.

You are misunderstanding the reply. The numbers I'm referring to are the pacer numbers. The general public have noticed from the pictures the 34 pacers are male and two are female.

This isn't just relating to DCM, this is any race using pacers controlled by Boardo.

Is that enough evidence?

By General Public, are you referring to the one person who asked the question on the Pacer Photo on DCMs Facebook page?

Are pacers controlled by Boards? That's a bit insulting to those who have volunteered. If women don't volunteer, how can they be selected?

Djoucer

joesoap5 wrote: »

You are misunderstanding the reply. The numbers I'm referring to are the pacer numbers. The general public have noticed from the pictures the 34 pacers are male and two are female.

This isn't just relating to DCM, this is any race using pacers controlled by Boardo.

Is that enough evidence?

Well it isn't enough evidence that there is a problem.

First of all, we need to know how many applied, their sex and their experience.

Then how many of those are successful and why.

If women aren't applying, we need to know why and is there a barrier.

There may well be a gender problem but a photo of pacers only demonstrates those who applied and were successful.

It's worth noting that of the 2015 finishers, 30% were women.

Of those women, average finish time was 285 minutes, so less women to pick from for some of the faster paces.

Also men are twice as likely to have run a marathon before when compared to women. Which is a factor when picking pacers.

Again there may well be a problem but the photo doesn't prove it.

Great data on men and women participants in Dublin marathon.

https://medium.com/running-with-data/a-data-analysis-of-the-dublin-marathon-48138724973e#.t77l43wp1

average_runner

Joesoap5

Now answer this question or walk away.

How many female runners applied to be pacers in any marathon that were mainly men pacers?

If you don't or can't answer this then you have no argument.

joesoap5

Djoucer wrote: »

First of all, we need to know how many applied, their sex and their experience.

Then how many of those are successful and why.

If women aren't applying, we need to know why and is there a barrier.

Agreed

joesoap5

average_runner wrote: »

Joesoap5

Now answer this question or walk away.

How many female runners applied to be pacers in any marathon that were mainly men pacers?

If you don't or can't answer this then you have no argument.

Say who?

You?

Good...then walk away feeling great, you won an argument in your mind.

You cant dictate what my opinion and feeling is on something.
34 males and 2 females (on a good day) speaks for itself.

I never said women were refused, i never said the men on boards are complete pigs, nothing like that.

I did say there is a problem with it and and I did ask the question why there's so few women.

I do think pace organisers need to go beyond Boards (who DCM say the majority of pacers come from as can be seen from other races) in search of female pacers.

This forum is made up of more males than females, a lot of females on this forum are clearly not interested in pacing.


You're adamant that I'm saying stuff that I clearly havn't said or argued about.

So keep doing it, enjoy it.

Oops69

From the response to my post QED and case closed , if any of you do ever end up in court , do get yourselves good legal advice .