Do married fathers envy or pity childless single men and vice versa?

brickmauser

I'm single and have no real interest in settling down and no real interest in having kids either.
My single mates and relations sometimes tell me they are envious of married men with kids and my married friends who have kids tell me sometimes they envy me for being single.
Does anyone get this a lot?
I usually tell them to shut up and watch the game.
What do you do?

Jimbob1977

I'm married with three sons.

There are times that I envy single friends who could take a short holiday or do whatever they wished at the drop of a hat.

I used to watch lots of football on TV. With a young family, I have virtually no time or opportunity now. Scooby Doo >> Monday Night Football.

However, I also feel a sympathy for childless people (by choice). When they are old or 'dead and gone', there is no legacy. Nothing.

Walter H Price

Ive been with my OH now for a lil over 5 years since we were 20 , we've lived together for the last 4 years , got engaged last november and getting married next November (2017). we are looking at buying a house , have adopted 3 cats and have decide we will probilby start trying for children as soon as were married and in our own place. i be keen on have 3 or 4 by the time were in our mid thirties the latest

I love being settled , dont miss night clubs or anything not a big drinkiner anymore and would rather sit in on friday night with my Fiance a sh1t movie and a takeaway. i've always wanted kids and hope to be a dad sooner rather then later. i still have a good bunch of mates most of them in relationships and still go away for lads weeknds to the football or rugby , have season tickets for Boh's , Leinster , Dublin GAA and Irealnd (Rugby and Football), i've been nearly at 1 game of something every week all summer and been over to the UK to see Villa twice already this season (once with the boys) once with my OH and going again with herself in December.

Still get away on a few holdiays a year at least two (one winter one summer) and a few city breaks in between. I done my J1 , interrailing , Summer in South Africa working with animals etc... when i was in my late teens early twenties.

I don't feel like i'm missing out on anything by being in a relationship or that id be in anyway freer if i was still single , living in a house share or at home like the lads who are. i Wouldnt say i pitty them because most are happy with their lifestyle as i was when i was a single college student, but i no looking at it it just wouldn't be for me anymore.

I can totally understand though how people who get together young and dont travel or live abroad or find shared intrests and stuff can start to feel like maybe they have missed or a missing out on something. but im more than happy with my lot.

GLaDOS

I imagine it depends on an individual's circumstances. While many are happily married with kids and others are single by choice and want to keep it that way, there are plenty who would like to start a family but haven't due to not finding the right partner or infertility issues. Similarly, there are plenty of men (And women, naturally) trapped in loveless marriages, staying together for the sake of the kids.

There always the "grass is greener" effect as well.

Advbrd

2 kids. Couldn't imagine life without them. I did not really appreciate what selfless love was until the kids arrived even though the little bastd@rds will one day put me in a home.

Dial Hard

There's a difference between childless and child-free.

Childless people may well envy those who have children. Child-free people tend not to.

HandsomeDan

No. Pity the nicer ones, who I reckon would have been good with kids, and benefited from the experience.

Dravokivich

Seems like a loaded question there in the OP.

For what it's worth, I'm a single father. So I'm not quite the target audience for this.

Throughout my family I've only got 1 cousin that is also a single parent. It's quite a contrast in how things are done from a parenting point of view, when you notice within your extended family that parents as couples (married and unmarried) and they don't tend to notice how they work together and with that are unaware of how hard it can be for one person to do that all themselves.

Do I envy married/coupled parents? Not really, I'm happy that they have an established platform to work together from. Whether or not they notice it.

Do I envy single people without kids? Not really. To me this then tries to quantify doubt about having a child in the first place. Then to minimize the value of that doubt, or bring it to 0 so as to justify having a child. Which I perceive as both a pointless exercise and an insult to the child.

Boom_Bap

I've 2 kids now and what you would call settled down. I love this life.
But I did used to have that free and single life, it was great and had a blast. But evolving into a proper relationship with kids was a perfect transition for me.
I do sometimes miss not being able to go somewhere without having to consider others or make arrangements, but that's a sacrifice I'm happy to make and don't dwell on missing anything.

silverharp

Im married with kids and while I wouldn't change anything I get that its getting more difficult. Its like the joke about Homer Simpson being cast as a loser character in the 80's but he has a stay at home wife , house and kids and hes been in space , he is knocking it out of the ballpark in 2016. :pac:

Dating culture seems to have objectively gone down hill in the last decade or 2 . I would certainly advise my son when he is older that hes under no pressure from me to have grandkids and I'd prefer him to be happy rather than making a mistake and being put through the grinder through a bad choice.

smacl

I've two daughters, 13 & 17. I totally envied my single friends during the baby years what with sleep deprivation, creche fees (we both work) and hungover nappy changes while watching Tellytubbies. Once that hurdle was jumped I find I really enjoy their company more and more with each passing year and know I'll be totally gutted when they get to the moving out stage. Doing fun stuff as a family is such a treat, e.g. dressing up for the Rocky Horror Show a couple of weeks back and doing the timewarp with loads of other dodgy types, and we're at that stage where we all look after each other pretty well. And clichéd as it is, grandkids would be a hoot at some stage in the future.

Wibbs

Jimbob1977 wrote: »

However, I also feel a sympathy for childless people (by choice). When they are old or 'dead and gone', there is no legacy. Nothing.

Depends on how one looks at it too mind you. A) when you're gone you're gone. The dead have no regrets. Name all your great grandparents. See how quickly that "legacy" vanished? C) What's your legacy to them(even if they could be aware of it)? Basic existence? Sure one of your descendants might be another Einstein, or Chairman Mao for that matter, but the countless billions that make up the majority will never be.

Four Phucs Ache

I'm a married father of 2. Wouldn't change it for the stars.I honestly cannot imagine life without them.In my head I'm still a single 24 year old but truthfully I've become my wife's 3rd child and I'm feckin delighted.
My 2 best friends are 5 and 8 now and the things we don't let mammy know about keeps me sane.

I used to envy single men who had social and financial freedom but it passed pretty quickly for me and doesn't bother me at all now.Peoples perspectives and outlook change with circumstance .A nightclub is now the last place I would be found in.

Now?..Give me a 200 foot tree to climb with my kids and a good coffee for when I get down.

frostyjacks

I'm minded of a quote from Woody Harrison's character in True Detective: "Past a certain age, a man without a family can be a bad thing".

Wouldn't swap it for the childfree life at all, they're a blessing.

Cookie_Monster

thats an unanswerable question as it entirely depends on the individual

newport2

I'm a childless guy, although not by choice. Lots of men envy the freedom and time I have, but they certainly don't envy the fact I don't have children. Two totally different things.

OldMrBrennan83

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_Brian

I don't understand why you would envy or pity one or the other. Usually they are just both stages along ones timeline, both to be enjoyed and both a challenge.
I prefer being my older self as a father of two, I would enjoy it more if I had good health.

PaddyWilliams

I'm 35, single, no kids. I do worry that I may never be a father, but I'm not just going to try get a girl pregnant for the sake of it. I'd love to have kids and be in a stable relationship too. Luck just hasn't shone on me yet.

I've no kids
2 cats
5 pinball machines and a golf GTi (3door)
The thought of having kids strikes fear into my heart...........

intheclouds

Jimbob1977 wrote: »

However, I also feel a sympathy for childless people (by choice). When they are old or 'dead and gone', there is no legacy. Nothing.

I don't understand this? What legacy? When you're dead and gone you won't know or care about any legacy. No matter how many kids you have there is nothing left of you when you're dead. Sure, you might be remembered for a generation (or even 2), but thats it, then you're just another name on a headstone like all the dead gone before you.

smacl

Wibbs wrote: »

when you're gone you're gone. The dead have no regrets.

That would be my take on it for sure, but very often getting dead involves growing old, becoming increasingly less able, dealing with failing health and dying, which can be pretty fraught. Having some young people around you at this stage that really care deeply for your well-being and happiness is something that's not on the pension plan and can't readily be bought. We went through this with my dad last year who we brought back to live with us before he died and are currently going through it with my mother in-law. Old folks, not unlike kids, take a shed load of looking after and most of us will be old folks at some stage.

lazybones32

I've been told by many married workmates that there's a lot to be said for staying single, well, not getting married. Apparently your girlfriend and wife are two different women even when it's the same person.
I've rarely heard the single guys speak of jealousy or envy but most would like to find a woman to settle with.
I'm hearing the woes of the lads who are fighting a lot with their partners and it's made more complicated because there is a child involved. They give the impression that their child is worth sticking with a relationship that they would otherwise have walked away from by now.

People might envy the romanticised view of singledom/married-life that they have but reality is never as pleasant.

hairyslug

God I miss holidays but that could have been down to the amount of drink taken. I don't drink anymore so holidays without kids would be very different. That and going out for a surprise lunch with the wife (which is possible but time restraints limit it). Apart from that I don't envy my childless time.
But everyone is different, I'm sure there are plenty of father's out there who never wanted kids but do they best they can in the situation they are in now, but always look back and see how things could have been.

sbsquarepants

I'm not married but I have kids, ranging from adults to babies - and whereas I wouldn't pity anyone without kids (I couldn't care less what others do with their lives) I certainly wouldn't envy them.
I can genuinely say that having kids has been the highlight of my life - well worth sacrificing any of the things I had to forego because of them.

Wibbs

smacl wrote: »

That would be my take on it for sure, but very often getting dead involves growing old, becoming increasingly less able, dealing with failing health and dying, which can be pretty fraught. Having some young people around you at this stage that really care deeply for your well-being and happiness is something that's not on the pension plan and can't readily be bought. We went through this with my dad last year who we brought back to live with us before he died and are currently going through it with my mother in-law. Old folks, not unlike kids, take a shed load of looking after and most of us will be old folks at some stage.

So children as an insurance policy against ageing? Bit selfish maybe? Never mind that - and I've seen this up close - hospitals and old folks homes are full of forgotten people and quite the number of the elderly living outside such places are left alone and only visited by the family on high days and holy days. Fair play to you and yours for being there, but an awful lot of people out there aren't. It can be a coin toss even with larger families. And that's before we get to the burden this places on next of kin.

o1s1n

BrownFinger wrote: »

I've no kids
2 cats
5 pinball machines and a golf GTi (3door)
The thought of having kids strikes fear into my heart...........

Any time my friends talk about their kids, I tend to make similar parallels about my cat.

The thing is, I'm genuinely not trying to troll them and only realise what I've done after the words leave my mouth. It doesn't go down too well :pac:

smacl

Wibbs wrote: »

So children as an insurance policy against ageing? Bit selfish maybe? Never mind that - and I've seen this up close - hospitals and old folks homes are full of forgotten people and quite the number of the elderly living outside such places are left alone and only visited by the family on high days and holy days. Fair play to you and yours for being there, but an awful lot of people out there aren't. It can be a coin toss even with larger families. And that's before we get to the burden this places on next of kin.

There is no insurance policy against ageing, you don't insure against a certainty. Yes, there are a lot of old folks more or less abandoned in hospitals and old folks homes, and many of them have families, I've seen plenty of this too. Looking after an infirmed parent in your home is a big ask and would only really work if you got on well with your folks. That said, I don't think it is selfish to think that those you love, and would really do anything for, will reciprocate this, but there's rather more to that than just being a parent. There are also very many reasons why you couldn't have an elderly parent live with you, but rather fewer as to why you wouldn't spend time with them. From what I've seen, loneliness is one of the bigger issues particularly with declining mobility. Could be a case of 'who needs kids when you've boards.ie' but I'm not banking on it.

intheclouds

smacl wrote: »

There is no insurance policy against ageing, you don't insure against a certainty. Yes, there are a lot of old folks more or less abandoned in hospitals and old folks homes, and many of them have families, I've seen plenty of this too. Looking after an infirmed parent in your home is a big ask and would only really work if you got on well with your folks. That said, I don't think it is selfish to think that those you love, and would really do anything for, will reciprocate this, but there's rather more to that than just being a parent. There are also very many reasons why you couldn't have an elderly parent live with you, but rather fewer as to why you wouldn't spend time with them. From what I've seen, loneliness is one of the bigger issues particularly with declining mobility. Could be a case of 'who needs kids when you've boards.ie' but I'm not banking on it.

Sure peoples kids emigrate, move to different parts of the country, die themselves, become estranged from their parents, are busy with their own families.

Absolutely no guarantee theyd be minding you in old age at all.

smacl

intheclouds wrote: »

Sure peoples kids emigrate, move to different parts of the country, die themselves, become estranged from their parents, are busy with their own families.

Absolutely no guarantee theyd be minding you in old age at all.

No guarantees, but I've a number of friends at a similar age to myself who do spend a lot of time with their elderly folks. I spent a fair amount of time visiting in and out of geriatric wards last year, and there were some old folks that never seemed to have a visitor. Personally, if I landed in that situation I'd hope to have a large enough stash of morphine or similar to book a one way ticket out of dodge. YMMV.

intheclouds

smacl wrote: »

No guarantees, but I've a number of friends at a similar age to myself who do spend a lot of time with their elderly folks. I spent a fair amount of time visiting in and out of geriatric wards last year, and there were some old folks that never seemed to have a visitor. Personally, if I landed in that situation I'd hope to have a large enough stash of morphine or similar to book a one way ticket out of dodge. YMMV.

Totally, but you might feel that way anyway even if you had people minding you!!