What is going on in our schools?

dont bother

Jesus. wrote: »

Don't be so ludicrous. There's nothing racist whatsoever in the OP.

He's concerned that Irish children are a minority in many schools. Why shouldn't he be?

how is it racist? it's pretty obvious how it's racist. OP is trying to say that it's "unfair" that there is more non national children in the school than national children. they make out that it's a bad thing. they didnt cite any good reason for this, and they are "afraid" of the result of this.

their tiny "parish pump" mind can not comprehend how everyone else has moved on.

the curriculum in primary schools is VERY spread out. the "more advanced" irish children won't be "Held back" because of the "stupid foreigners" - if anything they will be way better than the OP in many ways as they will grow up in an environment where the only culture that is appreciated is the GAA and mass.

this type of thick country thinking boils my blood.

jmayo

Oldtrope wrote: »

I live in a very rural part of Ireland as many of you know, the village I live in can have no more than 500 homes in the surrounding area.

This morning I took my Granddaughter to school, its her first year and she is junior Infants. What I witnessed was shocking and upsetting.

The classroom was nicely laid out but everywhere I looked foreign words were displayed all over the walls with pictures of flags and their name in their language. For Ireland the words were wrote in English, no Gaelige anywhere.

I enjoy talking to some of the other parents as I have done in the past when I took one of my grandsons to the school in the past, today was much different. Nearly every mother I spoke too were foreign, I encountered a lot of Eastern Europeans, a few Brazilians, and some English. If I had to put a number on it I would say the majority of the classroom had foreign children with only a small percentage of Irish children.

So where again are all these Eastern European and Brazilian women ?
Eastern European women with Brazilians.
Look at the positives your grandson might end up catching a nice lookin girlfriend and the local football team is sure to improve.
Those Brazilians are great footballers.

Oldtrope wrote: »

I waited to speak to the teacher, I wanted to know why Ireland was represented in English and not Gaelige. When she arrived she was welcoming and appeared almost happy someone had finally asked her the question. She told me that because the majority of the classroom could speak very little English they had to use their own languages to welcome them and make them feel at home, English was the 2nd language that all children must learn and so even Irish has to be represented in English. They do still teach Irish as part of the curriculum, but it is only taught at the bare minimum acceptance level as it was no use to the classroom because the majority of the children had been exempted by the school governors and the department of Education.

I was never that pushed about how Irish or Gaeilge was taught in our schools because it actually managed to put most people off the language.
And I have no problem putting up maps and flags showing where people are from. It might help with geography for a start.
All I would worry about is that any one group would try to impose their views and mindsets on everyone else and look for extra special considerations.

Oldtrope wrote: »

I asked her why were there so many non Irish children, she replied to me that if I thought this was bad then I should look at the bigger towns and Cities where the problem was far worse.

Do we really need to explain how when a man loves and woman and they cuddle in a special way it can result in a baby.
Look at it this way those foreigners are better at the cuddling and do it far more often than the Irish.
Hence more babies and thus more children eventually in school.

PS it is Gaeilge not Gaelige

Chain Smoker

I found that all the Irish words plastered on everything done f*ck all to help me embrace Irish, it was just some weird barrier to work around.


Without any sincere efforts to help children understand the structure of the language until secondary school, all that Irish in primary school serves to do is put people off the language.

Estrellita

SuperGrover wrote: »

Cultural heritage? Like learning Báidín Fheilimí under threat of a beating from a bitter old nun? That type of thing? Good riddance. May it burn to the ground.

My kids go to a school with others from various backgrounds, where the emphasis is on education in a happy and supportive atmosphere.

They'll never know what a miserable schooling a lot of us had and that's fine by me.

I'm not sure what era of schooling you are talking about, but the whole violent clergy thing is gone a long time. My education was a happy Irish cultured one. I remember our class won Slógadh in primary school too, proud moment for my parents. I was taught to play fiddle after school by an amazing teacher from Kerry. I can play jigs, polkas you name it. But there's so few people that would want to hear it. It's actually very sad how much contempt a lot of Irish people have towards their own heritage and culture. There is a lot to be proud of.

dont bother

Estrellita wrote: »

I'm not sure what era of schooling you are talking about, but the whole violent clergy thing is gone a long time. My education was a happy Irish cultured one. I remember our class won Slógadh in primary school too, proud moment for my parents. I was taught to play fiddle after school by an amazing teacher from Kerry. I can play jigs, polkas you name it. But there's so few people that would want to hear it. It's actually very sad how much contempt a lot of Irish people have towards their own heritage and culture. There is a lot to be proud of.

there is some stuff to be proud of, but force feeding people the idea that they should be ashamed of themselves for having no interest in learning a useless, needless, difficult dead language is ridiculous.

so you say you learned all of that - what's wrong with learning all of that AND other cultures?

Estrellita

dont bother wrote: »

so you say you learned all of that - what's wrong with learning all of that AND other cultures?

I think you might need to step out of the thread and have a breather. I said nothing at all about NOT wanting to learn about other cultures. I simply said I was saddened by the contempt some Irish had for their own.

Shenshen

Estrellita wrote: »

I think you might need to step out of the thread and have a breather. I said nothing at all about NOT wanting to learn about other cultures. I simply said I was saddened by the contempt some Irish had for their own.

Not everybody likes all kinds of music. Nor does everybody like all forms of culture.

Me, I'm a bookworm and love classical music. I'll listen to traditional, but wouldn't go out of my way to seek it out.
And people across the board have this weird habit of judging people based on what music they like.I think Dara O'Briain did a bit on this - "Oh, you like that noise? I only like this noise! Why would you like that noise? There must be something wrong with you for liking that noise better than this noise!" Very simplified, but it's to the point, I think.
So why would people treat polkas and different from hip-hop or metal? You like what you like, and if you're an insecure oddball, you judge others for not liking what you like

Moo Moo Land

meeeeh wrote: »

A lot can be due to attitudes of their peers. Anyway I don't know what has that to do with anything I posted.

Sorry I wasn't having a cut at you.

But I am right in saying that young children are never ever racist, their parents pass it on. The peers you are talking got their racism from their parents.

The OP is racist and is hell bent on passing that on to his/her grandchild.

Moo Moo Land

Chain Smoker wrote: »

I found that all the Irish words plastered on everything done f*ck all to help me embrace Irish, it was just some weird barrier to work around.

Where I live, they ripped out a perfectly good "English" road sign showing 'Barna 7km' and replaced it with an Irish road sign showing "Bearna 7km".

That's when I realised the Irish Nazis had gone too far.

midnight city

dont bother wrote: »

how is it racist? it's pretty obvious how it's racist. OP is trying to say that it's "unfair" that there is more non national children in the school than national children. they make out that it's a bad thing. they didnt cite any good reason for this, and they are "afraid" of the result of this.

their tiny "parish pump" mind can not comprehend how everyone else has moved on.

the curriculum in primary schools is VERY spread out. the "more advanced" irish children won't be "Held back" because of the "stupid foreigners" - if anything they will be way better than the OP in many ways as they will grow up in an environment where the only culture that is appreciated is the GAA and mass.

this type of thick country thinking boils my blood.

Where else in the world would that be celebrated though. Pick a country for your thought experiment. Rwanda, Japan, Cambodia.. Imagine the natives of those countries started to become a minority. Should they be expected to celebrate that. Should they be called racist for wondering aloud if that was really a good thing.

Estrellita

Shenshen wrote: »

Not everybody likes all kinds of music. Nor does everybody like all forms of culture.

Me, I'm a bookworm and love classical music. I'll listen to traditional, but wouldn't go out of my way to seek it out.
And people across the board have this weird habit of judging people based on what music they like.I think Dara O'Briain did a bit on this - "Oh, you like that noise? I only like this noise! Why would you like that noise? There must be something wrong with you for liking that noise better than this noise!" Very simplified, but it's to the point, I think.
So why would people treat polkas and different from hip-hop or metal? You like what you like, and if you're an insecure oddball, you judge others for not liking what you like

I get that people like different things, but I used Irish music as an example because it was very much a feature in my own upbringing. Culture is made up of so much more than that. Whether it's the food, clothing, way of life.

I just feel that people from other countries love, and are very proud of their country and their heritage. So many Irish have such a depressing account of Ireland. It really is a beautiful country, and it's just not talked about. It's almost like an embarrassment to some.

Just to be clear, and obviously I need to be, but I've nothing against learning about other cultures. My points are focused only on the loss of our own in general.

Moo Moo Land

midnight city wrote: »

Where else in the world would that be celebrated though. Pick a country for your thought experiment. Rwanda, Japan, Cambodia.. Imagine the natives of those countries started to become a minority. Should they be expected to celebrate that. Should they be called racist for wondering aloud if that was really a good thing.

It depends of course whether you are talking about being taken over by other nationalities or races?

For example, what race of people would become majority in Rwanda except other Africans?

1. Racism = prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.

2. Xenophobia = dislike of or prejudice against people from other countries.

I believe the OP is both.

Jesus.

dont bother wrote: »

how is it racist? it's pretty obvious how it's racist. OP is trying to say that it's "unfair" that there is more non national children in the school than national children. they make out that it's a bad thing. they didnt cite any good reason for this, and they are "afraid" of the result of this. their tiny "parish pump" mind can not comprehend how everyone else has moved on.

How is that racist though? And of course its not a good thing. Are you crazy?

dont bother wrote: »

the curriculum in primary schools is VERY spread out. the "more advanced" irish children won't be "Held back" because of the "stupid foreigners" - if anything they will be way better than the OP in many ways as they will grow up in an environment where the only culture that is appreciated is the GAA and mass. this type of thick country thinking boils my blood.

I can't find where he suggested anybody would be held back or that the only culture that should be appreciated is GAA and mass. You're being silly now.

Once again, he's concerned that there's more foreign kids in many schools than there are Irish. Why shouldn't he be?

midnight city wrote: »

Where else in the world would that be celebrated though. Pick a country for your thought experiment. Rwanda, Japan, Cambodia.. Imagine the natives of those countries started to become a minority. Should they be expected to celebrate that. Should they be called racist for wondering aloud if that was really a good thing.

The funny thing is that the lefty loonies who clearly believe there isn't anything called "Irish culture" per se would baulk if somebody said for example a middle eastern Country didn't have its own cultural richness that should be protected. (That's just an example btw). The self hatred that's been drummed into people by modern political corectness and the media etc is extremely evident on these pages.

midnight city

Moo Moo Land wrote: »

It depends of course whether you are talking about being taken over by other nationalities or races?

For example, what race of people would become majority in Rwanda except other Africans?

Racism = prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.

Xenophobia = dislike of or prejudice against people from other countries.

I believe the OP is both.

Well not if it was Europeans and Chinese that were moving in. We all know that current liberal dogma would demand the Rwandans to accept that without a complaint or they would be racist. That's they way it is in the West right now.

Moo Moo Land

midnight city wrote: »

Well not if it was Europeans and Chinese that were moving in. We all know that current liberal dogma would demand the Rwandans to accept that without a complaint or they would be racist. That's they way it is in the West right now.

Yeah Yeah very very unlikely.

Is your concern in Ireland driven by racism or xenophobia?

kunst nugget

Estrellita wrote: »

Just to be clear, and obviously I need to be, but I've nothing against learning about other cultures. My points are focused only on the loss of our own in general.

How is our culture being lost? We have a very visible and successful traditional culture, masses of funding spent on preserving the language and an explosion of Gaelscoils in the country over the last decade.

GreenFolder2

I'm pretty sure the Brexiteers have a time machine over in England, possibly near Hull somewhere, that will transport you straight back to 1952.

If it's not built yet, they will definitely have it up and running in the near future (or is that past..?)

So, I would suggest you head over to England and then you can travel back in time and get a ferry back to Dublin in 1952.

Problem solved!

As long as you keep your rose / green tinted spectacles on you won't notice any of the poverty, misery, cold war brewing in the background and so on.

It'll be grand!

Jesus.

Moo Moo Land wrote: »

It depends of course whether you are talking about being taken over by other nationalities or races?For example, what race of people would become majority in Rwanda except other Africans?
1. Racism = prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.2. Xenophobia = dislike of or prejudice against people from other countries.I believe the OP is both.

So let me get this straight. If your Country was being taken over one would have to be either racist or xenophobic to object to it?

midnight city

Moo Moo Land wrote: »

Yeah Yeah very very unlikely.

Is your concern in Ireland driven by racism or xenophobia?

What has likelihood got to do with it. That's whats happening in Europe. Would the same be OK in Rwanda?

Neither, as i'm very happy to have immigration, my concern is whether it will work out OK with the numbers coming into Europe now. I feel we are moving too fast and this process is irreversible.

sjw_central

Shenshen wrote: »

Interesting you should mention - I haven't yet seen any reply from you on my post on personal choices. Instead, you keep posting disjointed slogans.

Since you are that keen on evidence, can you please provide any that culture is, in fact, being destroyed?

There are none so blind as those who refuse to see.

http://www. politics. ie/forum/europe/239928-invasion-europe.html

Over 2,600 pages there of major problems, and of problems that the mainstream media refuses to highlight, such as persistent gang rapes and threats.

A disabled woman was gang raped in Sweden a few days ago. The prosecutor declined to prosecute as the rape wasn't violently resisted. The woman is paralysed for Gods sake!

Not a problem eh?

The Swedish police only turned up to protect the rapists from a public mob which had formed to exact justice or revenge. The Swedish are cuckold fools.


Muslim rape gangs in Rotherham. You condone that do you?
Do you condone the refusal of the police to investigate?



Islam is a horrible religion, as are most religions, but there are worse things, such as liberal self hating leftists.

Oh, and men with beards in dresses, like Conchita Wurst.

eviltwin

Estrellita wrote: »

I'm not sure what era of schooling you are talking about, but the whole violent clergy thing is gone a long time. My education was a happy Irish cultured one. I remember our class won Slógadh in primary school too, proud moment for my parents. I was taught to play fiddle after school by an amazing teacher from Kerry. I can play jigs, polkas you name it. But there's so few people that would want to hear it. It's actually very sad how much contempt a lot of Irish people have towards their own heritage and culture. There is a lot to be proud of.

There's nothing wrong with any of that but I object to it being force fed on the basis of culture only. Far better to provide classes in traditional dance, music etc for the children who have an interest and provide other classes for those who don't. I personally have no Irish, can't play a traditional instrument or sing any Irish songs but I'm every bit a proud Irish person as those who do.

sjw_central

Shenshen wrote: »

...
Since you are that keen on evidence, can you please provide any that culture is, in fact, being destroyed?

Yes.

The Crusaders Running Club has chosen to change its logo due to pressure and criminal acts by Muslims.

Do you concede that that is an example of culture being amended or destroyed?

I can give more examples but I don't see much engagement on your side.


Ali Selim in Clonseagh Mosque agitates for music to be banned from Irish schools and for other cultural changes too.

Did you not see any of that?, or are you being obtuse?

Arcade_Tryer

The sense of entitlement of some of the 'traditional Irish culture' enthusiasts on this thread is unsurprisingly astonishing.

While I agree it's sad to see outright contempt for such culture, that is not what I see. What I see is contempt for those that would enforce (and have done so successfully) such culture on others. And that is a far more sinister and sad situation.

RayCun

sjw_central wrote: »

The Crusaders Running Club has chosen to change its logo due to pressure and criminal acts by Muslims.

that's actually a short-term action, which is not expected to last past an AGM. But some people inside the club have been arguing to change the name for a while, because "Fighters in a Holy War Against Jews and Muslims AC" is not the image they want to present.

sjw_central wrote: »

Ali Selim in Clonseagh Mosque agitates for music to be banned from Irish schools and for other cultural changes too.

Glendower:
I can call spirits from the vasty deep.

Hotspur:
Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come when you do call for them?

Shenshen

Estrellita wrote: »

I get that people like different things, but I used Irish music as an example because it was very much a feature in my own upbringing. Culture is made up of so much more than that. Whether it's the food, clothing, way of life.

I just feel that people from other countries love, and are very proud of their country and their heritage. So many Irish have such a depressing account of Ireland. It really is a beautiful country, and it's just not talked about. It's almost like an embarrassment to some.

Just to be clear, and obviously I need to be, but I've nothing against learning about other cultures. My points are focused only on the loss of our own in general.

I wouldn't disagree, but it kind of comes back to a point I made earlier.
Culture is THE most democratic thing in human society. It only exists for the people participating, it will change when the majority of people changes and it's almost impossible to influence effectively and directly without putting a totalitarian regulator in place - and in that case, you'll find subversive sub-cultures springing up everywhere.

And sometimes, in some places, people decide they're bored or fed up with a particular aspect of their culture and turn away from it. They might do that because they discovered something new they like better, or simply because the associate negative feelings with the old way. From what I can see of Irish culture, it's a bit of both. People I've spoken to and people here on boards have very, very negative associations with the Irish language, for example. It's debatable where that may come from, but it's there, and it's generating a social drift away from all things Irish. It's not going to be easy to stem that tide, and personally, I'm not convinced it would be worth it. It's well possible that it might turn all by itself in a few years' time.

I can give you a similar example from Germany - traditional music there has an even worse reputation than here. It's regarded mostly as something for old people and geriatrics, it's derided and laughed at. People generally regard it as deeply, deeply embarrassing.
And yet, once a year, people come in droves from all over Germany (and the world, in fact) to the Octoberfest to throw themselves in Dirndl and Lederhosen, and sway along with brass bands. A few years back, there was even a hit song including a bit of jodeln.
That's a rather new development, it's only changed some 15/15 years ago. When I was a teenager, people would rather be seen shagging a goat than wearing Lederhosen, and to jodel would have been exposing yourself to such ridicule that you most likely would never have recovered.

Sorry for the length of text there, what I'm trying to say is that culture will always be in flux - sometimes away from tradition, sometimes towards it. But as long as no harm is being done, there's no right or wrong to it. And yes, I can see how it would be sad if a part of your culture that you cherish is not being cherished by others. But all you can do is try and persuade people one by one that what you like is beautiful - that's a long road, though.

circadian

Oldtrope wrote: »

I live in a very rural part of Ireland as many of you know, the village I live in can have no more than 500 homes in the surrounding area.

This morning I took my Granddaughter to school, its her first year and she is junior Infants. What I witnessed was shocking and upsetting.

The classroom was nicely laid out but everywhere I looked foreign words were displayed all over the walls with pictures of flags and their name in their language. For Ireland the words were wrote in English, no Gaelige anywhere.

I enjoy talking to some of the other parents as I have done in the past when I took one of my grandsons to the school in the past, today was much different. Nearly every mother I spoke too were foreign, I encountered a lot of Eastern Europeans, a few Brazilians, and some English. If I had to put a number on it I would say the majority of the classroom had foreign children with only a small percentage of Irish children.

I waited to speak to the teacher, I wanted to know why Ireland was represented in English and not Gaelige. When she arrived she was welcoming and appeared almost happy someone had finally asked her the question. She told me that because the majority of the classroom could speak very little English they had to use their own languages to welcome them and make them feel at home, English was the 2nd language that all children must learn and so even Irish has to be represented in English. They do still teach Irish as part of the curriculum, but it is only taught at the bare minimum acceptance level as it was no use to the classroom because the majority of the children had been exempted by the school governors and the department of Education.

I asked her why were there so many non Irish children, she replied to me that if I thought this was bad then I should look at the bigger towns and Cities where the problem was far worse.

This is madness, we are losing our cultural heritage and now our children are minorities in their own schools and suffering because of it.

Send her to the nearest Gaelscoil. Problem solved.

circadian

super_furry wrote: »

Oh come on. You lot aren't really falling for this new account, one post, letters to the Daily Mail editor rewrite, are you?

Some people love any reason to get the pitchforks out.

dav3

sjw_central wrote: »

Yes.

The Crusaders Running Club has chosen to change its logo due to pressure and criminal acts by Muslims.

Do you concede that that is an example of culture being amended or destroyed?

I can give more examples but I don't see much engagement on your side.


Ali Selim in Clonseagh Mosque agitates for music to be banned from Irish schools and for other cultural changes too.

Did you not see any of that?, or are you being obtuse?

Do you ever get tired of re-regging? You have to go through the procedure of creating a new email, go to boards.ie, create a new account, wait for a verification email, log in, post far-right racist ****e, get banned, repeat the following day.

These are not the actions of a sane person. I personally couldn't give a **** about your mental health, but I'm sure there are people out there that can help you.

Do you have any opinions on the OP's fairytale?

Shenshen

sjw_central wrote: »

Yes.

The Crusaders Running Club has chosen to change its logo due to pressure and criminal acts by Muslims.

Do you concede that that is an example of culture being amended or destroyed?

I can give more examples but I don't see much engagement on your side.


Ali Selim in Clonseagh Mosque agitates for music to be banned from Irish schools and for other cultural changes too.

Did you not see any of that?, or are you being obtuse?

A company called "****** Constructions" in my home town recently changed it's name (****** is the last name of the owner of the company, but he felt that while it had become an embarrassing name that he was kind of stuck with, he could at least re-name the company to his wife's name) - is that a culture being destroyed because the poor man is as white as they come and never even chose his family name to begin with?
Or is it just people realising that they don't want to be insensitive towards the feelings of others?

And I'm not even going to go near what the Iona Institute advocates and agitates for. If they're allowed to push their agenda, why should others be denied?

Boom_Bap

dav3 wrote: »

Do you ever get tired of re-regging? You have to go through the procedure of creating a new email, go to boards.ie, create a new account, wait for a verification email, log in, post far-right racist ****e, get banned, repeat the following day.

These are not the actions of a sane person. I personally couldn't give a **** about your mental health, but I'm sure there are people out there that can help you.

Do you have any opinions on the OP's fairytale?

If you suspect a re-reg, report it rather than dragging it out on thread.
Cheers.