House inheritance between two sons

bigpaudge

Hi Lads,
I would like some advice or just ideas on what my best options are in regards to a house inheritance.
My father has left his house in Dublin to myself and my brother-in-law, neither of us live in Ireland. I grew up in the house, it was my home for the best part of 25 years. I would not be keen on selling, rather renting but from what I have read in other posts I would probably be better off selling and investing my share. Emotional attachments shouldn't get in the way I know. I don't own property, myself and my wife rent.
I have a feeling my B-i-L would like to sell too. Unfortunately since the death of my sister (his wife) he doesn't want to speak to me so I can't be sure. I don't want to drive an even bigger wedge between myself and my B-i-L with any legal battles over the house.

The house has not had any renovations since the mid 1980's, it needs a lot of work to bring it up to modern standards. Would we be better investing some money to modernise and then sell or just sell without the modernisation?

I look forward to your replies,
thanks a lot.

punisher5112

bigpaudge wrote: »

Hi Lads,
I would like some advice or just ideas on what my best options are in regards to a house inheritance.
My father has left his house in Dublin to myself and my brother-in-law, neither of us live in Ireland. I grew up in the house, it was my home for the best part of 25 years. I would not be keen on selling, rather renting but from what I have read in other posts I would probably be better off selling and investing my share. Emotional attachments shouldn't get in the way I know. I don't own property, myself and my wife rent.
I have a feeling my B-i-L would like to sell too. Unfortunately since the death of my sister (his wife) he doesn't want to speak to me so I can't be sure. I don't want to drive an even bigger wedge between myself and my B-i-L with any legal battles over the house.

The house has not had any renovations since the mid 1980's, it needs a lot of work to bring it up to modern standards. Would we be better investing some money to modernise and then sell or just sell without the modernisation?

I look forward to your replies,
thanks a lot.

Sorry to hear bad news.

Sell unless you plan on coming back.

loyatemu

bigpaudge wrote: »

The house has not had any renovations since the mid 1980's, it needs a lot of work to bring it up to modern standards. Would we be better investing some money to modernise and then sell or just sell without the modernisation?

If you do decide to sell, you should probably just sell it as is; it sounds like it would difficult to agree any renovations with your BiL and they're unlikely to add much value over the cost of doing them. A buyer will prefer a blank slate to do their own work (or possibly demolish and build again).

GingerLily

Sell or buy him out, they are your two options.

BoardsMember

10o% agree. If you're not takking now, crazy to get into wnything together, either as is or as an investment or refurb and sell option. Market is good, sell it.

intheclouds

Sell and definitely dont bother sinking anything but basic white paint job for refurb.

Ms Doubtfire1

seel. Dublin is once again at the height of the real estate bubble, it will come crashing down sooner rather than later. sell now to avail of it.

tfer

Definitely sell as is, you wouldn't get your money back.
Take the money and run, so you and your brother in law can have a clean split

PierreLeCake

You have a number of possible choices depending on what your Brother In Law wants to do.
Both of you could keep the house jointly and rent it out if this was agreeable. I see a number of problems here. You don't talk to your BIL. You both live abroad so upgrading the property and managing it brings a lot of headaches which are hard to deal with when you live abroad.
If you can raise the money you could buy your BIL out. If your father left him half directly in the will your BIL is going to have a much bigger tax bill than you. It might suit him to be bought out. The problem here could be agreeing a fair price that's acceptable to both of you. You could then rent the house with the same problems of being a landlord abroad but it might be easier as you would be the sole landlord.
You sell the house and divvy up the proceeds between the two of you. If your father left a will there will be a solicitor involved and they can determine what your BIL wants to do if its awkward for you to have direct contact.
Even with a will it probably will take around a year before your fathers estate is paid out.
Are you the executor of the will or is it another family member. They might be able to act as middleman between your BIL and you.

December2012

Has your father died? If not, he should consider tax advice because your brother in law may have a bigger tax liability than you, which may be avoided, e.g. if he left some of the brother in laws share to any kids he had with your sister.

The_Conductor

You'll not get back any money you invest in doing up the property- and indeed, prospective buyers will not pay a premium for a property that is in walk-in condition.

As per above- sell, or buy out your Brother-in-law- but don't invest anything in the property- its not worth it.

seamus

Renting out a property is a big pain in the hole and would likely require that you both sink substantial sums of money into it, to bring it up to a legally rentable condition.

Then you've got the constant headache of repairs and maintenance and the tax being deducted as you're non-resident landlords.

It's the home you grew up in, but it's only bricks and mortar. The memories are in your head, not in the house.

Come home, clean it out and you'll be surprised home much an empty property no longer looks like the house you remembered.

Sell it and invest the cash if you don't need it.

Carawaystick

Your BiL will have to pay CAT at 33% on the value of his share over 15k...

bigpaudge

Thanks all for the sound advice! Forgive my ignorance here, I have a couple more questions; why would my BiL have to pay a higher capital acquisitions tax than me and why would he have to pay higher amount of tax if the property was left to us 50/50?

Thanks a lot.

athtrasna

bigpaudge wrote: »

Thanks all for the sound advice! Forgive me ignorance here, I have a couple more questions; why would my BiL have to pay a higher capital acquisitions tax than me and why would he have to pay higher amount of tax if the property was left to us 50/50?

Thanks a lot.

There's a taxation forum on here, those guys will help you on tax questions

bigpaudge

Seems like a lot of hard work to repeat the same post on a tax thread?

judeboy101

Weird that your dad left half your home to your bil and not your sister?

relax carry on

bigpaudge wrote: »

Thanks all for the sound advice! Forgive my ignorance here, I have a couple more questions; why would my BiL have to pay a higher capital acquisitions tax than me and why would he have to pay higher amount of tax if the property was left to us 50/50?

Thanks a lot.

http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/cat/thresholds.html

The Diddakoi

judeboy101 wrote: »

Weird that your dad left half your home to your bil and not your sister?

States in the op that the sister is deceased.

averagejoe123

bigpaudge wrote: »

Seems like a lot of hard work to repeat the same post on a tax thread?

The threshold for the amount someone can gift/inherit vary depending on the relationship.

The latest budget increased the Group A (patent to child) to €310,000.

Your BIL falls into Group C which has a threshold of €16,250.

Capital Acquisition Tax of 33% will have to be paid on figures above these amounts.

Note that these figures only came into effect of 12 October 2016 and if the property was inherited prior to this date the previous figures of €280,000 group A and €15,000 Group C are applicable.

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/budget-2017-inheritance-tax-threshold-jumps-by-11-to-310-000-1.2821007


I would seek independent Tax advice if the sums involved exceed your threshold.

BoardsMember

averagejoe123 wrote: »

The threshold for the amount someone can gift/inherit vary depending on the relationship.

The latest budget increased the Group A (patent to child) to €310,000.

Your BIL falls into Group C which has a threshold of €16,250.

Capital Acquisition Tax of 33% will have to be paid on figures above these amounts.

Note that these figures only came into effect of 12 October 2016 and if the property was inherited prior to this date the previous figures of €280,000 group A and €15,000 Group C are applicable.

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/budget-2017-inheritance-tax-threshold-jumps-by-11-to-310-000-1.2821007


I would seek independent Tax advice if the sums involved exceed your threshold.

The threshold applicable is based on the Date of death, not the "current" threshold.

bigpaudge

PierreLeCake wrote: »

You have a number of possible choices depending on what your Brother In Law wants to do.
Both of you could keep the house jointly and rent it out if this was agreeable. I see a number of problems here. You don't talk to your BIL. You both live abroad so upgrading the property and managing it brings a lot of headaches which are hard to deal with when you live abroad.
If you can raise the money you could buy your BIL out. If your father left him half directly in the will your BIL is going to have a much bigger tax bill than you. It might suit him to be bought out. The problem here could be agreeing a fair price that's acceptable to both of you. You could then rent the house with the same problems of being a landlord abroad but it might be easier as you would be the sole landlord.
You sell the house and divvy up the proceeds between the two of you. If your father left a will there will be a solicitor involved and they can determine what your BIL wants to do if its awkward for you to have direct contact.
Even with a will it probably will take around a year before your fathers estate is paid out.
Are you the executor of the will or is it another family member. They might be able to act as middleman between your BIL and you.

My old man made my B-i-L the executor!

bigpaudge

Question: If I move back into the house can my B-i-L evict me or take legal action to sell the house from under my feet when the time comes?

Spanish Eyes

averagejoe123 wrote: »

The threshold for the amount someone can gift/inherit vary depending on the relationship.

The latest budget increased the Group A (patent to child) to €310,000.

Your BIL falls into Group C which has a threshold of €16,250.

Capital Acquisition Tax of 33% will have to be paid on figures above these amounts.

Note that these figures only came into effect of 12 October 2016 and if the property was inherited prior to this date the previous figures of €280,000 group A and €15,000 Group C are applicable.

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/budget-2017-inheritance-tax-threshold-jumps-by-11-to-310-000-1.2821007


I would seek independent Tax advice if the sums involved exceed your threshold.

There is a Surviving Spouse relief in CAT which means BIL steps into the shoes of his late wife and is entitled to Group 1 Threshold.

bigpaudge

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

There is a Surviving Spouse relief in CAT which means BIL steps into the shoes of his late wife and is entitled to Group 1 Threshold.

Not sure what that means? My BIL is entitled to €16,250 or something else?

Spanish Eyes

bigpaudge wrote: »

Not sure what that means? My BIL is entitled to €16,250 or something else?

BIL gets the threshold that your late sister would have had from her father, same as you. €335k at present.

December2012

Your brother in law will take his own tax advice, so dont worry about that.

What does he propose doing with the property?

Princess Calla

bigpaudge wrote: »

Question: If I move back into the house can my B-i-L evict me or take legal action to sell the house from under my feet when the time comes?

Is the house still going through probate?

I don't think you are allowed to move back in at this time (we were in a similar situation)

He has as much right to the house as you do, so if he wants to sell, you either need to buy him out, or agree to the sale. Otherwise the house will be vacant and fall into disrepair. Which is no benefit to anyone.

It seems that your relationship is strained as it is.... Why drag the situation out longer. Unless you plan on contesting the will. I would find it weird he made the bil executor of the will, but I have no idea of family dynamics etc. You do. If you think everything is above board, honour your father's wishes without any further drama..... Like a divorce only winners are the legal team.

Regarding tax relief your bil adopts the relationship his spouse would have. In this case a child, so he is eligible to cat a threshold.

Atlantic Dawn

Your BiL as executor has responsibility for securing and protecting all assets in the will to get the best possible price on them, he will have rights to prevent you moving back in to the house. He may sell it to you at market rate or decide to place it on the open market.

ted1

bigpaudge wrote: »

My old man made my B-i-L the executor!

What has being happening to the house over the last three years ?

Pistachio19

How has this not been sorted in the 3+ years since you originally posted? Have you at least agreed to sell the house? If it's lying vacant it will end up damp and the value will certainly decrease. Your BIL has a duty, as executor, to carry out the instructions of your fathers will within a reasonable timeframe and I'd say 3 years is past that time. Is he being difficult about the house? You should probably get your own legal advice at this stage and push for the house to be sold or for one to buy the other out, before it rots, assuming there's nobody living in it.