Best trees to sow for shelter to cattle

Dunedin

looking to sow a few trees for shelter to cattle. what is the best type to sow - land is pretty good, heavy, but fertile.

Is this a good time of year to sow?

Genghis Cant

This is getting towards the ideal time to sow, trees will be dormant soon.
Is it a hedge or stand alone trees you're going to sow?

Dunedin

Genghis Cant wrote: »

This is getting towards the ideal time to sow, trees will be dormant soon.
Is it a hedge or stand alone trees you're going to sow?

would prefer a few stand alone trees. appreciate that they won't grow overnight but equally I don't want something that will take 75 years to offer a bit of shelter.

Timmaay

Late Oct till March the perfect time to plant bareroot trees/shrubs. Your best bet is to plant both shrubs and trees, they will compliment each other, grow better, and give you a much thicker and better shelter. Alder is a good fast growing native tree. http://www.hedging.ie/advice/irelands-top-5-native-trees.html#.WASzjNDTXqA good guide here.

merryberry

Dunedin wrote: »

looking to sow a few trees for shelter to cattle. what is the best type to sow - land is pretty good, heavy, but fertile.

Is this a good time of year to sow?

Interested in hearing people's views also. Probably cypress but absolutely hate the site of them. Cast a shade an unhelpful shade at times of the year. Was thinking of birch. Native. Will shed leaves but don't I don't out winter cattle anyway

pedigree 6

Dunedin wrote: »

looking to sow a few trees for shelter to cattle. what is the best type to sow - land is pretty good, heavy, but fertile.

Is this a good time of year to sow?

If you're looking for shelter for the winter and spring I'd say they would have to be evergreen.
No point having a deciduous tree and no leaves in the winter.

There's some great evergreen shelterbelts planted on farms in nz.
They started from scratch though with a blank canvas.

I know this time of year I have to pick which paddocks to graze depending on the weather.

I wouldn't be anti evergreen. There's a use for every tree. Although i like to combine the use of firewood and shelter.

oldsmokey

Would blackthorn not be a good one?, in time , with trimming, will thicken into a useful division, and shelter. The OP could consult the teagasc website, loads of info there..

Stealthfins

Popular trees can be good for shelter or privet shrubs because they are used to protect from onshore winds.

davidk1394

When is the best time to cut back trees ? Have poplars and ever greens here that need to be cut back a good bit

Bass Reeves

If you are looking at single trees for shelter there are virtuall none that will grow in less than 50 years. Single trees only provide shade in the summer and provide little in the way of shelter. Hedges that are between the animal and the wind/rain are the best shelter. Traditional hedge trees such as Whitethorns or beech are the best. However cattle will eat beech leaves and twigs and they are not stock proof so unless they are fenced cattle will damage them.

Evergreens are useless longterm as they go bare at the butt over time as well they are impossible to maintain. You cannot trim them with hedge cutters as if you go beyond the green when cuttint it will not regrow. A hedge with whitethorn and some bexch, hazel interspersed as well as having a few trees such as Oak, beech birch or alder will provide greta shelter from both weather and sun over time. Holly is a beautiful hedge but ver expensive to plant. The buoys will trim all the trees with berry on them every November/December.

Single trees will have to be fenced and maintained for decades before you can allow stock access to them

Genghis Cant

Dunedin wrote: »

would prefer a few stand alone trees. appreciate that they won't grow overnight but equally I don't want something that will take 75 years to offer a bit of shelter.

If it's a few stand alone trees, I'd consider what's growing locally. I'd be more a fan of native type trees.
Of the quicker growing ones, you could consider sycamore and birch.
I love whitethorn, it doesn't be too long getting into a very useful hedge. All the shelter stock need is down low.

Capercaillie

oldsmokey wrote: »

Would blackthorn not be a good one?, in time , with trimming, will thicken into a useful division, and shelter. The OP could consult the teagasc website, loads of info there..

Blackthorn will spread into your field through suckers. Grows a lot slower than whitethorn as well. Whitethorn grows quick and will provide a dense hedge. Needs to be protected from weed first couple of years though.

pedigree 6

Popular and laurel?

Keep the sides trimmed with hedgecutter.

pedigree 6

Better not forget holly.
Good shelter, nesting and food for birds.

Edit: just seen Genghis and bass Reeves has it included.

Genghis Cant

I attempted to attach a pic but failed.
Whitethorn hedge 75 %, the rest made up from beech, Hazel, Holly, birch, guelder rose, spindle.
Planted this spring.

Muckit

Ask one of the moderators for help uploading

Planted some beech myself so be interested to compare

pedigree 6

Muckit wrote: »

Ask one of the moderators for help uploading

Planted some beech myself so be interested to compare

Good man Muckit. 8000 posts. Be a shame to ruin that nice round number.:pac:

jimini0

Genghis Cant wrote: »

I attempted to attach a pic but failed.
Whitethorn hedge 75 %, the rest made up from beech, Hazel, Holly, birch, guelder rose, spindle.
Planted this spring.

That's a nice mix of hedge I hope to plant something like that in the new year. Can you tell me an idea of cost?

blue5000

jimini0 wrote: »

That's a nice mix of hedge I hope to plant something like that in the new year. Can you tell me an idea of cost?

There used to be ads in the journal, ballpark, €80 per 100 trees. Handy way to plant it is run a 2 furrow plough where it's going and put a row on each scrape. Use a spade, 3ft apart on each row, but stagger them so the trees are approx 18 inches apart.

Genghis Cant

jimini0 wrote: »

That's a nice mix of hedge I hope to plant something like that in the new year. Can you tell me an idea of cost?

I have it written in a diary here. Bought Nov 15.
I kept them heeled in a trench over the winter and planted in the spring.
I bought them off K and M nurseries in Kildare. Top quality plants that made a great thrive.

Prices as follows.
Beech 120-150cm €1.23
Whitethorn 80-100cm €0.46
Guelder rose 60-90cm €0.77
Spindle 60-90 €0.67

I bought these in a couple of other places.
Hazel were a euro each. Holly were from one to 5 euro depending on size. I bought four about a meter high for €20 and others about 8-9" at a euro each. They're still the same size!
There was birch growing wild here and I dug them up and replanted them.

pedigree 6

Genghis Cant wrote: »

I have it written in a diary here. Bought Nov 15.
I kept them heeled in a trench over the winter and planted in the spring.
I bought them off K and M nurseries in Kildare. Top quality plants that made a great thrive.

Prices as follows.
Beech 120-150cm €1.23
Whitethorn 80-100cm €0.46
Guelder rose 60-90cm €0.77
Spindle 60-90 €0.67

I bought these in a couple of other places.
Hazel were a euro each. Holly were from one to 5 euro depending on size. I bought four about a meter high for €20 and others about 8-9" at a euro each. They're still the same size!
There was birch growing wild here and I dug them up and replanted them.

Did you put down any dung or fertiliser when planting?

I put down a bit of dung in the hole and mix it up with the soil before planting.
Really helps them.

jimini0

blue5000 wrote: »

There used to be ads in the journal, ballpark, €80 per 100 trees. Handy way to plant it is run a 2 furrow plough where it's going and put a row on each scrape. Use a spade, 3ft apart on each row, but stagger them so the trees are approx 18 inches apart.

Can't use a plough I will be planting them along one side of an open drain so I will be doing it the old way. Dig a hole with spade put in plant stamp down ground with boot.

Genghis Cant

pedigree 6 wrote: »

Did you put down any dung or fertiliser when planting?

I put down a bit of dung in the hole and mix it up with the soil before planting.
Really helps them.

I had a digger here and dug a trench. I put dung in one section that I felt was impoverished. I mixed it with the soil and buried it about a foot under ground level. I planted beech on that section about 50 yds.
The rest, about 150yds I just dug a trench, and back filled it making a nice bed.
I put in 2 rows staggered. We kept them weed free this year more or less.

Who2

Can't beat a white thorn hedge. For fast growing trees sycamore or chestnut are good option and look well too. Holly makes a nice evergreen option but I don't know whether the cattle would break it down unless it was mixed through white thorn.

Genghis Cant

Genghis Cant wrote: »

I attempted to attach a pic but failed.
Whitethorn hedge 75 %, the rest made up from beech, Hazel, Holly, birch, guelder rose, spindle.
Planted this spring.

Here it is.

merryberry

Genghis Cant wrote: »

Here it is.

Nice job

oldsmokey

Genghis Cant wrote: »

Here it is.

That looks fab!..any fear the wabbits are going to have a chew there?I chanced a few ash without the plastic protectors, and the hooring rabbits had them cleared overnight.

Bass Reeves

Genghis Cant wrote: »

Here it is.

This winter go along hedge and break each plant about 8-14'' from the base and bend over. This will really thicken hedge. Leave the odd plant every 15-20 metres to grown as a standard tree. This will delay having to trim the hedge for a year and will really thicken the base wrap the plants aroud each other to keep them low to the ground.

restive

Is there any shrub /small tree you can plant into an existing hedge that is thin at the base.

Genghis Cant

oldsmokey wrote: »

That looks fab!..any fear the wabbits are going to have a chew there?I chanced a few ash without the plastic protectors, and the hooring rabbits had them cleared overnight.

We don't have rabbits here. Hares alright, I'd be hoping the windbreak and electric fence would keep them out. The hens here weren't long getting trained to the fence!

Bass Reeves wrote: »

This winter go along hedge and break each plant about 8-14'' from the base and bend over. This will really thicken hedge. Leave the odd plant every 15-20 metres to grown as a standard tree. This will delay having to trim the hedge for a year and will really thicken the base wrap the plants aroud each other to keep them low to the ground.

It seems counterintuitive to do that but we done similar to the 2012 hedge. We cut it back to 6" and it is a great job. I've never came across what you suggest. Do you break it but leave it attached?

Genghis Cant

1)Spindle, 2) red dogwood , 3)guelder rose , and 4)Holly within the hedge.
There's also beech, field maple, Hazel, blackthorn, lilac, birch, yellow dogwood.
Some of these are in small quantities but present.
I want to get a bit of honeysuckle too.

Genghis Cant

restive wrote: »

Is there any shrub /small tree you can plant into an existing hedge that is thin at the base.

Whitethorn, bareroot could work. What's the existing hedge?

Bass Reeves

Genghis Cant wrote: »

It seems counterintuitive to do that but we done similar to the 2012 hedge. We cut it back to 6" and it is a great job. I've never came across what you suggest. Do you break it but leave it attached?

Yes the hedge will then sprout all along the horizontal stem. Hard to do with all the thorns. clipping 6'' from the base also will alow it to thicken but if you can bend it and break it down low it is like laying a hedge.

restive

Genghis Cant wrote:

Whitethorn, bareroot could work. What's the existing hedge?

Very old. Total mix of everything. I'd say white thorn , ash Sally's etc.

jfh

Genghis Cant wrote: »

Here it is.

Great job there. I'm dividing off a site & would rather use a traditional hedge than beech, is there a site for those guys that I could buy online?

Green farmer

Anyone mention laurels ? I bought and planted 5ft barefooted ones 11 years ago. Now about 15high and great wind breaks. Will continue into big trees if You don't prune. Keep leaves years around and look classy.

pedigree 6

Green farmer wrote: »

Anyone mention laurels ? I bought and planted 5ft barefooted ones 11 years ago. Now about 15high and great wind breaks. Will continue into big trees if You don't prune. Keep leaves years around and look classy.

Yep. Plus can be cut and trimmed and will sprout back again.
Plus can be grown from slips.
Make good roosts for birds as well.

I think people forget sometimes about roosts. Trees with good covers of ivy provide roosts for woodpigeons and pheasants and numerous other birds.

If you can Green farmer, put up a picture of them.
I wouldn't mind seeing what they look like.

The Cuban

Ash will go to full size in 20 years, you could buy a 3/4 year old and plant it, Maybe you could buy older but it would be big at that stage. Also as said previously you`d have to fence the cattle off it for a few years. And watch out for Ash Dieback disease in your area or close by if its there then forget it. By far the biggest problem for Ash is Ivy, once thats kept off the tree would last forever

Dunedin

thanks for all the replies.

Muckit

Genghis Cant wrote: »

Here it is.

You must have great soil GC. Look like they are planted a few years!!

Genghis Cant

jfh wrote: »

Great job there. I'm dividing off a site & would rather use a traditional hedge than beech, is there a site for those guys that I could buy online?

I'll pm you.

Genghis Cant

Muckit wrote: »

You must have great soil GC. Look like they are planted a few years!!

Powerful soil. But like a lot of crops a hedge will burst out of it if the seedbed is good. I made a grand tilled line with a mini digger bucket and kept them fairly well wed. Herself cleans out the hens and chucks the hen ****e along the hedge too.
You can plant a hedge in untilled ground and it'll grow..... But don't be in a hurry for it!

Edited to add: I just checked the phone there, we've pictures of it being planted on March 16th this year. So 7 mths planted.

Muckit

That's unreal. I would have sown into tilled soil too. And actually brought in topsoil. Plenty fym and buckets of poultry pellets. Mypexed and windbreaked also. Couldn't do anymore more for them, yet wouldnt be a patch on yours!!

Oh and got a shake of 10 10 20 end of june. Next year might be their year!???!!!

Did you get many or any that didnt take?

Genghis Cant

Muckit wrote: »

That's unreal. I would have sown into tilled soil too. And actually brought in topsoil. Plenty fym and buckets of poultry pellets. Mypexed and windbreaked also. Couldn't do anymore more for them, yet wouldnt be a patch on yours!!

Oh and got a shake of 10 10 20 end of june. Next year might be their year!???!!!

Did you get many or any that didnt take?

I counted two that appeared to strike and leaf up but then lost the leaves. Out of 350 plants. Ours done well alright now that I look at them. I wonder maybe that windbreak helped.

pedigree 6

Genghis and Muckit. Are ye talking about bareroot trees and shrubs?

Edit: presume you's are. As if it was a potted one you know the thing about spreading out the roots when planting.

pedigree 6

This would be the rolls Royce treatment and sowing of bare root trees.

https://www.arborday.org/trees/planting/bare-root.cfm

99nsr125

Green farmer wrote: »

Anyone mention laurels ? I bought and planted 5ft barefooted ones 11 years ago. Now about 15high and great wind breaks. Will continue into big trees if You don't prune. Keep leaves years around and look classy.

Unfortunately you can't have laurel, it's poisonous.
Cyanide if I remember correctly.

Western Red Cedar does well even in damp soil
It's evergreen and will put on fresh growth on old wood
when cut back unlike almost every other evergreen.

To fix some Nitrogen you could go with Alder
There's also an almost evergreen Alder, Mexican Alder I think
Italian Alder grows faster than common Alder and holds its leaves
in a similar way to Beech but sadly not as well

pedigree 6

99nsr125 wrote: »

Unfortunately you can't have laurel, it's poisonous.
Cyanide if I remember correctly.

Portuguese laurel is grand.
It's the cherry one that has it.

I never knew that about the cyanide.
I had to look it up.

The cattle would want to be quare hungry to eat a tough laurel leaf though.
But good to know.

Waffletraktor

Genghis Cant wrote: »

Bass Reeves wrote: »

This winter go along hedge and break each plant about 8-14'' from the base and bend over. This will really thicken hedge. Leave the odd plant every 15-20 metres to grown as a standard tree. This will delay having to trim the hedge for a year and will really thicken the base wrap the plants aroud each other to keep them low to the ground.

It seems counterintuitive to do that but we done similar to the 2012 hedge. We cut it back to 6" and it is a great job. I've never came across what you suggest. Do you break it but leave it attached?

To get a young hedge like that to thicken you need to hit it hard to avoid it growing up rather than sideways from the base

Muckit

Genghis Cant wrote: »

I counted two that appeared to strike and leaf up but then lost the leaves. Out of 350 plants. Ours done well alright now that I look at them. I wonder maybe that windbreak helped.

Will you prune yours? I clipped back mine. Wanted the beech to thicken and shoot out at the bottom

Genghis Cant

Muckit wrote: »

Will you prune yours? I clipped back mine. Wanted the beech to thicken and shoot out at the bottom

I will yeah. I might try that suggestions above about breaking the stem though I'd be a bit afraid I'd mess it up. I'll do something though!