Are petrol cars dying a death in Ireland?

Commotion Ocean

I was looking at buying a new car. I was looking at the Renault Kadjar.
The car was beautiful, it was automatic, had electric windows all around, integrated GPS, Bluetooth, powerpoints all around, air con and all the mod cons you could shake a stick at.

I was highly considering going for it and asked if they had it in petrol ....... the sales assistant said that they didn't, they only had the basic model in petrol.

I had a look around a few other places and at a few makes and models, you can only get a car with all of the mod cons in diesel ... none in Petrol ! It's very hard to get a petrol car that isn't bog standard

Not to mention family members nearly shouting at me and warning me "not to go near them petrols, they'll cost you too much to drive".

I currently drive a 1.4 L diesel car, which I was using the commute 100 km each way to/from my old place of work. My weekly commute is a mere 250 km in total now.

Voodoomelon

Are you looking for a new one? If you want petrol, you pretty much need to order one now with many models.

mickdw

I'd say we are at max diesel levels in the market right now.
Petrol and petrol hybrid will be clawing back a reasonable piece of the market.
To be fair, the diesel will retain value better so it's a safer buy than petrol.

Commotion Ocean

Voodoomelon wrote: »

Are you looking for a new one? If you want petrol, you pretty much need to order one now with many models.

Between two minds. My car works pretty well and it's in perfect working order.

Looking for a new car more as a treat than a necessity.

The was I see it is:

Long journeys / motorway driving = Manual and Diesel as there won't be much gear changing and the diesel will be beneficial for long journeys at high speed.

City driving / slow speeds = Automatic for stop start traffic and petrol as DPF will die a death in those conditions and engine won't heat sufficiently in those conditions.

I stand corrected though

Water John

That pendelum I would expect to be swinging back soon. Didn't happen this time but strong hints that diesel tax will be upped in future.
Also, it will become aware that diesel is a dirty fuel and produces toxins which may be linked to an increase in certain conditions.

Commotion Ocean

Water John wrote: »

That pendelum I would expect to be swinging back soon. Didn't happen this time but strong hints that diesel tax will be upped in future.
Also, it will become aware that diesel is a dirty fuel and produces toxins which may be linked to an increase in certain conditions.

Why tax diesel more though? That'll hit hauliers.

Why not just lower petrol tax to the same as diesel.

listermint

If it's new you should be able to order one 171 for new year with the spec you want.

Also I agree with above there appears to be heavy rumours of diesel taxes and testing becoming more rigorous over next few years in Europe.

Reno threw out some murmurs of production becoming alot more petrol focused soon too obviously electric now coming more into the fray.

Water John

Dfeo, do you think any Govn't would do that?

listermint

dfeo wrote: »

Why tax diesel more though? That'll hit hauliers.

Why not just lower petrol tax to the same as diesel.

You can rebate hauliers back its not a difficult prospect.

Water John

BTW rebate should also be used for AG diesel. Not this colouring, that some like washing.

sunnysoutheast

I saw a 162 A6 TFSI on Friday. An A6!

I presume it's the 2.0 but not sure.

Comhrá

sunnysoutheast wrote: »

I saw a 162 A6 TFSI on Friday. An A6!

I presume it's the 2.0 but not sure.

.....and I have a 161 A4 1.4 TFSI. Previously had a 1.4 TFSI A3 Saloon and will continue to buy petrol. Only future issue with these petrol engines is that they are slated to receive DPF filters from 2017 or 2018 from what I was told. This may cause the same potential issues as their diesel equivalents. Who knows?

H.E. Pennypacker

The Mazda CX-5 is available in petrol at higher spec levels

OldMrBrennan83

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JohnBoy26

dfeo wrote: »

I was looking at buying a new car. I was looking at the Renault Kadjar.
The car was beautiful, it was automatic, had electric windows all around, integrated GPS, Bluetooth, powerpoints all around, air con and all the mod cons you could shake a stick at.

I was highly considering going for it and asked if they had it in petrol ....... the sales assistant said that they didn't, they only had the basic model in petrol.

I had a look around a few other places and at a few makes and models, you can only get a car with all of the mod cons in diesel ... none in Petrol ! It's very hard to get a petrol car that isn't bog standard

Not to mention family members nearly shouting at me and warning me "not to go near them petrols, they'll cost you too much to drive".

I currently drive a 1.4 L diesel car, which I was using the commute 100 km each way to/from my old place of work. My weekly commute is a mere 250 km in total now.

There is many cars on the market today available in petrol with high spec and low tax and low running costs. There is more to go wrong with modern diesels and they usually cost more to put right when things do go wrong.

Atlantic Dawn

Patww79 wrote: »

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FYP

OldMrBrennan83

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VandC

Patww79 wrote:

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Agree. And I think it's half attributed to the cheaper motor tax and prices at the pump. If it was flipped and petrol was cheaper for tax and refuelling my guess is that petrol would be the more popular.

Maybe I'm wrong, but anybody who I know who have been buying diesel cars in the last few years, these are their main reasons. No talking about them about the distances they drive, maintaining diesel engines/filters, toxins etc, it's all about that 10c at the pump and whatever amount of euro on the taxes.

Skylinehead

dfeo wrote: »

Why tax diesel more though? That'll hit hauliers.

Why not just lower petrol tax to the same as diesel.

Because then the government will take less money in. They'll never do that.

Damien360

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

There is many cars on the market today available in petrol with high spec and low tax and low running costs. There is more to go wrong with modern diesels and they usually cost more to put right when things do go wrong.

Very hard to find. Want a test drive ? Good luck. Looking for something in avensis/Passat or down to a focus market myself for the wife. Considering petrol and hybrid only. Second hand is impossible to find. Dealers don't want to talk new petrols.

OldMrBrennan83

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Zubeneschamali

Bought a 151 Mini Cooper petrol new - salesman was very reluctant. They are all diesel now, blah blah.

Shut up and take my money!

knifey_spoonie

I would imagine you will see a massive shift towards petrol or hybirds within 12/18 months.

When you look at the differences between Euro 5 to Euro 6, Nox brought from 180 to 80. You then have to consider Euro 6.1 is only around the corner. You are going to see the need for ever more restrictive and expensive emissions control systems. You can expect to see SCR(AdBlue) catalysts on pretty much all diesel engines within 2 years.

You then have to take into account a reliability issues when it comes to these emission control systems, In general DPF's are already a massive issue given the driving style and patterns of most Irish motorists.

Then when when you look at whats coming down the line in continental europe, Paris banning diesels by 2020,London 2025, with many European cities having already banned older diesel cars.

I would actually bet that you will see the same shift en mass back to petrol/hybrid that we seen towards diesel in 08, along with that you could also see a massive change in residual values.


OP if your looking for something along the lines of the Kadjar, have a look at the new Toyota CHR.

VandC

Patww79 wrote:

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I've just traded my diesel in for a petrol car, for that reason...my circumstances are changing I will no longer drive ridiculous mileage on motorways up and down all day every day, instead now I'll be lucky to be going more than 20km once a month, nearly every other journey will be around a 5km round trip. And they think I'm mad. I'm having to justify my reasons for going back to petrol. And just for the record I've only ever had one diesel, switched from petrol and only got as it suited my driving needs at the time - and now it doesn't so (happily) back to petrol I go.

Gael23

Petrol is on the way back now that co2 emissions and fuel economy are closer to diesel. I know someone that's in th market for 171 and has driven diesel for the past 25 years looking at petrol this time.

Bigus

This would be the petrol auto to go for


https://www.toyota.ie/models/c-hr

Zubeneschamali

knifey_spoonie wrote: »

In general DPF's are already a massive issue given the driving style and patterns of most Irish motorists.

You know that and I know that, but the feckers are still buying diesels to drive 10 miles a day, and salesmen are happy to sell them, since they cost more.

Zubeneschamali

Bigus wrote: »

This would be the petrol auto to go for
https://www.toyota.ie/models/c-hr

Sorry, what? Fell asleep for a while there.

Ginger83

Patww79 wrote: »

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and then you mention to insurance company that its a golf, they ask what kinda golf and you have to quietly say those 5 letters...GT TDI

James Bond Junior

I genuinely think that in 5 years time there petrol cars will be commanding a premium. My next door neighbours have two petrol cars. We live a 10 min walk from the city centre. They have a new arrival coming and want to get a small petrol mpv. Can't be got in this country and even in the U.K. they are hard found. The market is there for petrol and it's only waking up.

Atlantic Dawn

The majority of people I know who bought diesels since 2008 did so primarily for the misconception that they will save them money, some drive only 50 miles a week if even that. I would be expecting a big backlash with people not buying another diesel because of expensive DPF fixes which knock out any saving in motor tax multiple times.

Tigger

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

The majority of people I know who bought diesels since 2008 did so primarily for the misconception that they will save them money, some drive only 50 miles a week if even that. I would be expecting a big backlash with people not buying another diesel because of expensive DPF fixes which knock out any saving in motor tax multiple times.

i expect a bigger backlash when the NCT follow the doe and start failing for DPF deletions

knifey_spoonie

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

You know that and I know that, but the feckers are still buying diesels to drive 10 miles a day, and salesmen are happy to sell them, since they cost more.

Ive nearly fallen out with customers by pushing petrol cars onto them, I have one customer who does about 3,000km a year and still insists on driving a diesel.

One of the bigger issues is, Im selling a brand that for the most part has a genuine diesel alternative, but when we are the only ones offering it and every other brand just has diesel and when that's all the consumer hears about, it seems like the only option.

James Bond Junior

knifey_spoonie wrote: »

Ive nearly fallen out with customers by pushing petrol cars onto them, I have one customer who does about 3,000km a year and still insists on driving a diesel.

One of the bigger issues is, Im selling a brand that for the most part has a genuine diesel alternative, but when we are the only ones offering it and every other brand just has diesel and when that's all the consumer hears about, it seems like the only option.

Your dealer principal must love you!!!!

Andrewf20

I thought it looked a big /heavy car so would probably drink petrol, hence my thoughts of low ball predictions on sales figures but according to parkers the 1.2 petrol only weighs 1320kg. Should easily be a market for a petrol here especially when it's hitting close to 50mpg apparently.

bilbot79

There is no way that diesel drivers will be punished all of a sudden in favour of petrol given that so many people have been incentivised to drive diesels. There'll be no diesel ban in dublin

OldMrBrennan83

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Zubeneschamali

bilbot79 wrote: »

There is no way that diesel drivers will be punished all of a sudden in favour of petrol given that so many people have been incentivised to drive diesels. There'll be no diesel ban in dublin

There will be no ban - just a gradual rebalancing of incentives.

And nobody really likes diesel - they just pretend because of the money. Change the tax system, and people will change their tune pretty damn quick.

JPF82

Plug in petrol hybrids will be the way it'll go for longer journeys. Those in urban areas will get away with cars that are just plug in electric.

When they start testing car emissions in the real world rather than the lab it may will be much tougher for manufacturers to hit targets without some hybrid elements in a petrol car. Diesel not as suitable for hybrid AFAIK.

HamsterFace

I need a new car, looking for something around 3 years old. The missus uses it for a short run to work each day and a diesel really does not suit, but, there are NO second hand petrol cars out there.

It's frustrations. I may have to buy diesel though I know it's not the right thing to do.

knifey_spoonie

James Bond Junior wrote: »

Your dealer principal must love you!!!!

There is no point in blindly allowing someone to buy the wrong car, it will just turn out to be the last car they ever buy off you, and that's not what anyone wants.

annascott

I found the same recently when looking at volvos. I do not like diesel cars, they sound like tractors.

newacc2015

One thing you need to consider is the ticking time bomb in the UK which is PCP finance. A record number of cars were sold in the UK last year with 75% sold on finance. About 300k more cars than should be sold in the UK are being sold each year.Interest rate are being cut in the UK and there will a greater pressure to sell cars on easy credit. The UK is going to have a massive glut of used cars in a year or two

https://www.bloomberg.com/gadfly/articles/2016-01-07/the-bubble-in-car-sales-is-reaching-bursting-point

Throw in the exchange rate which is predicted to be 94p to the euro by January. It wont make too much of a difference if your car is diesel or petrol for resale when a glut of cheap cars will be coming from the UK pretty soon.

BunkMoreland

Thinking of getting a 171 Octavia 1.6 TDI diesel but now thinking the 1.2 TSI petrol at 2.5k cheaper might be the better option.

Mostly urban driving with a cross country trek once a month.

The main reason I was thinking diesel was resale value down the line (8 years). Was unaware of bans in other countries so maybe I should go for the petrol?

Zubeneschamali

knifey_spoonie wrote: »

There is no point in blindly allowing someone to buy the wrong car, it will just turn out to be the last car they ever buy off you, and that's not what anyone wants.

I've never met the same salesman twice in the same garage when it is time to change.

Lots of them are gone before the first service.

Zubeneschamali

BunkMoreland wrote: »

The main reason I was thinking diesel was resale value down the line (8 years).

Buy what you'd like to drive for 8 years, because in 8 years, both cars will be worth roughly no euros. The diesel will be worth no euros, and the petrol will be worth no euros for different reasons.

The J Stands for Jay

Bigus wrote: »

This would be the petrol auto to go for


https://www.toyota.ie/models/c-hr

Dear god, no.

The J Stands for Jay

bilbot79 wrote: »

There is no way that diesel drivers will be punished all of a sudden in favour of petrol given that so many people have been incentivised to drive diesels. There'll be no diesel ban in dublin

Just like no one had the valuenof their car wiped out in 2008...

Who would buy a 2007 530d in June 2007?

dubrov

Has anyone got any stats on reliability of diesels vs petrels when used predominantly for short journeys?

Most people i know pretty much only drive short journeys with diesels and i am not seeing that translate into issues.

Let's face it, most people in the country drive short journeys and if diesels were such an issue for this, it wouldn't take long for the market to switch to petrols.

Given a lot of major models don't come in petrol, it looks like there isn't any market for them.

ShadowHearth

bilbot79 wrote: »

There is no way that diesel drivers will be punished all of a sudden in favour of petrol given that so many people have been incentivised to drive diesels. There'll be no diesel ban in dublin

Ahhh, I wish I would be so naive again. No offence,but this is Ireland. Government will throw us all under the bus without a kiss or warning.
At least some countries have decency to say that diesels will be banned by X year. Ireland will just do in budget over night and say: **** you that's why!

josip

BunkMoreland wrote: »

Thinking of getting a 171 Octavia 1.6 TDI diesel but now thinking the 1.2 TSI petrol at 2.5k cheaper might be the better option.

Mostly urban driving with a cross country trek once a month.

The main reason I was thinking diesel was resale value down the line (8 years). Was unaware of bans in other countries so maybe I should go for the petrol?

Go for the 2.0 TDi instead