Auris touring hybrid

gooner99

With the sterling being good at the minute I've been looking at upgrading. 2013-14 Auris touring hsd looks nice. Anyone have one?

Also looked at a 1.33 dvvti, vrt is about twice the hybrid,so it balance out with the higher price of the hybrid when cleared.

Leaf has no vrt and are pretty resonable. Also a good option, but sadly public charging in Donegal is pathetic.

Thanks.

colm_mcm

I've only driven the non hybrid Auris tourer, and it's a nice car. I'd have the hybrid over the 1.33 anyway. It'll probably be easier to sell when the time comes, and will be nicer to drive, being based on the mk3 Prius mechanically.

gooner99

Cheers Colm. The tourer looks nice alright. Did a check and the tourer seems to be about 55kg heavier than the hatch. Wonder if you'd notice that in the hybrid in terms of performance and economy?

Anyone on here running a new model Auris hybrid hatch or touring?

gooner99

Hopefully going to head to the dealer this weekend for a test drive of an Auris hybrid. Anything I should check out other than just driving it as normal?

zilog_jones

I don't know of anything specific to the Auris Hybrid, but it's the same powertrain as the 3rd gen Prius and Lexus CT200h and there's not an awful lot to go wrong with them - and if there is something wrong it will complain a lot (warning lights, "check hybrid system", etc.).

I'd recommend driving it in the normal hybrid mode, not "Eco" or "Pwr" (not sure if both are available on Auris) - they mainly just change the throttle response (making it generally less responsive for "Eco"). Use the "Hybrid System Indicator" display too see how your throttle/brake input determines if it's using only EV power, ICE or regenerative braking. During a cold start the ICE will run when not moving for up to 2 minutes or so, and the ICE can also run when stopped if the battery charge is low or you're trying to heat the cabin. The ICE starting and stopping while driving should be smooth (you'll feel it a bit when stopped).

Check there's no noise from the rear brakes (if they're discs) - callipers can get stuck as they're used so infrequently. If there's serious corrosion on the discs there could be problems.

gooner99

Damn it. Stuck calipers are already a big problem for me on my golf. Living right beside the sea. Is it more or less a problem on a Toyota hybrid than other cars?

zilog_jones

I've heard it's a problem with Corollas and other Toyotas too. The problem with hybrids is because of the regenerative braking, you barely use the "friction brakes" at all - only when braking hard or below 10km/h. It seems to be a common issue in areas where the roads are salted a lot - my Prius came from NI and had new rear calipers (after only about 40k miles) probably because of this issue.

I believe regularly lubricating the slide pins should avoid the issue, as they seem to be the main cause of trouble once they start corroding. Lots of info about this on PriusChat and elsewhere.

Soarer

Front and back discs and pads for the Auris Touring Hybrid are coming in at €182 with free delivery from Mick's Garage. So it's not exactly bank breaking if you have to change them every few years.

zilog_jones

That's a lot of unnecessary work and waste if it can be avoided though. From what I've heard, if they're inspected and lubricated annually they should be OK.

Soarer

zilog_jones wrote: »

That's a lot of unnecessary work and waste if it can be avoided though. From what I've heard, if they're inspected and lubricated annually they should be OK.

Ah I know yeah. Preventative maintenance is always best.

I was just saying it's not the worst thing in the world if it were to happen every so often.

gooner99

That's not bad for the Toyota disks and pads. I think the discs for the gold were quite expensive. I think they use a pin and a screw like mechanism on the calipers, so can be a big issue too. I live right beside the beach, so salt and sand always in the air.

gooner99

colm_mcm wrote: »

I've only driven the non hybrid Auris tourer, and it's a nice car. I'd have the hybrid over the 1.33 anyway. It'll probably be easier to sell when the time comes, and will be nicer to drive, being based on the mk3 Prius mechanically.

Colm. The 1 4 vvti in the old corolla was quite a nice engine. Not so good in the 1st generation Auris as it was like a boat. But very reliable if I'm not mistaken.

What is the 1.33 like. I found it good in the new Auris. I think it's out from 2009. Is it proving to be reliable or troublesome longterm?

I don't think it has anything fancy about it other than dual vvti whatever it means. No turbo as far as I know. I'd probably be more wary of the 1.2 turbo?

zilog_jones

The 1.33 should be slightly more powerful and more efficient than the older 1.4, despite being slightly smaller. Dual VVT-i means it has variable valve timing on intake and exhaust valves (VVT-i was just intake) to further improve efficiency, emissions, and allow smooth stopping and starting - the 1.8 in the hybrid has this stuff too. I'm not aware of any major reliability issues with either.

gooner99

Thanks. Have driven the new 1.33 model. Nice to drive. Owner says they are happy with the economy. Need to calculate if the hybrid will give much of a saving over 15-20k miles a year.

zilog_jones

According to users on Spritmonitor, the Auris 1.33 (manual) is averaging 6.57 l/100km (43 MPG), compared to 5.28 l/100km (54 MPG) with the hyrbid. With that kind of mileage at current fuel prices, with the hybrid you're talking €400-550 fuel savings a year, but you'll also be paying (I think) €90 less tax a year.

gooner99

Jumping back in here. Anyone have a mk1 or mk1 facelifted auris hybrid long term?

stimpson

I have a 161 HST. Absolutely love it. I came from a 2.0D verso and a 2.0D avensis before that and would never go back. I use it mostly for city driving but it returns ~5.5l/100 on the motorway which is better than the Verso. Haven't time for a big post now but post up any questions. I'd be happy to answer them.

gooner99

New Auris is a very nice car alright, having driven only the 1.33 hatch version.

zilog_jones

The 1st generation Auris Hybrid (assuming you mean the E150, 2010-2012) wasn't around for very long and seems pretty rare here.

stimpson

zilog_jones wrote: »

The 1st generation Auris Hybrid (assuming you mean the E150, 2010-2012) wasn't around for very long and seems pretty rare here.

There was a mid model refresh in 2015. Interior is much nicer. Only a slight difference in the exterior but a bit more chrome here and there. I think the suspension got a bit of a tweak too.

Toyota long mile have a low mileage 142 pre-refresh on for €20k. I looked at a 131 last year, but with a trade in and a hard bargain on price there was only 3.5k in the difference so I bought new.

zilog_jones

That's the second generation, E180 (2012-present). gooner99 was asking about the first?

stimpson

zilog_jones wrote: »

That's the second generation, E180 (2012-present). gooner99 was asking about the first?

Yeah, but there wasn't a facelifted mk1 and I'm not sure there was a mk1 Touring.

ei9go

gooner99 wrote: »

Jumping back in here. Anyone have a mk1 or mk1 facelifted auris hybrid long term?

Son has a T Spirit 2012 model since 2013.

Anything you want to know?

gooner99

Yeah I guess technically the mk1.5 hybrid was a mk1, as there wasn't one until 2010.

E19go - how does he like it? What's the economy like? Maintenance, servicing, reliability.

I see one at a garage up my way which is quite rare, so hopefully will get a spin in one at long last.

ei9go

gooner99 wrote: »

Yeah I guess technically the mk1.5 hybrid was a mk1, as there wasn't one until 2010.

E19go - how does he like it? What's the economy like? Maintenance, servicing, reliability.

I see one at a garage up my way which is quite rare, so hopefully will get a spin in one at long last.

There is no 1.5 Auris, they are all the 1.8 like the Prius.

Here's a link to his car on fuelly.

http://www.fuelly.com/car/toyota/auris/2012/bpme/316358

The car is used around the city mostly and when on the motorway is not crawling along for economy.

There were a number of electrical issues with it including erratic operation for the central locking and the touch and go system being replaced under warranty but the local Toyota dealer sorted it out.

Don't think he would buy another hybrid. Fuel economy is too far away from the claimed. Hybrids seem to be able completely con the NEDC test.

Maintemance at the Toyota dealer is very reasonable and it is completely reliable

gooner99

Ah sorry. I meant auris mk one and a half (mk1.5) as someone pointed out above that there was no such thing as a mk1 hybrid.

Interesting on the fuel economy. I've been looking at the 1.33 dual-vvti and they seems to offer good economy and reliability. So might not be much in it in reality.

The hybrid does have a nicer look to it though. Like the front bumper much better. I believe the specs in general are also better.

I read Today that Toyota will fit the mazda 1.5 to the yaris in aome markets. A new tie up on technology sharing.

stimpson

ei9go wrote: »

There is no 1.5 Auris, they are all the 1.8 like the Prius.

Here's a link to his car on fuelly.

http://www.fuelly.com/car/toyota/auris/2012/bpme/316358

The car is used around the city mostly and when on the motorway is not crawling along for economy.

There were a number of electrical issues with it including erratic operation for the central locking and the touch and go system being replaced under warranty but the local Toyota dealer sorted it out.

Don't think he would buy another hybrid. Fuel economy is too far away from the claimed. Hybrids seem to be able completely con the NEDC test.

Maintemance at the Toyota dealer is very reasonable and it is completely reliable

In fairness 45mpg average with mostly city driving is excellent. You won't get close to that around town in any diesel. And no car hits the official test results. I'd say hybrids will be closer to the official numbers than a standard ICE.

grogi

stimpson wrote: »

In fairness 45mpg average with mostly city driving is excellent. You won't get close to that around town in any diesel. And no car hits the official test results. I'd say hybrids will be closer to the official numbers than a standard ICE.

I was getting more than 50 mpg in bigger, heavier and older Prius...

stimpson

grogi wrote: »

I was getting more than 50 mpg in bigger, heavier and older Prius...

City driving?

grogi

stimpson wrote: »

City driving?

In Cork City, majority commuting and shopping trips not longer than 10 km.

On the motorway when doing 120-130 km/h it would average around 6 l/100 km (~47 mpg), doing 100-110 it goes down to 5 l/100 km (~56 mpg). Relaxed driving on country roads I could get down to 3.5 l (80 mpg), but that required skill and patience.

zilog_jones

gooner99 wrote: »

Interesting on the fuel economy. I've been looking at the 1.33 dual-vvti and they seems to offer good economy and reliability. So might not be much in it in reality.

I would be hesitant to come to such conclusions based on one owner. As I said previously the average fuel consumption for the 2nd gen Auris Hybrid on Spritmonitor is 5.28 l/100km (54 MPG):

http://www.spritmonitor.de/en/overview/49-Toyota/1212-Auris_Hybrid.html?fueltype=2&constyear_s=2013&powerunit=2

That's based on over 1200 owners - there are a lot more Europeans on Spritmonitor than Fuelly (which is primarily US, where the Auris is not sold). 43 MPG is average for the 1.33 - that's a significant difference.

There are a lot of things that can make a surprisingly notable difference with fuel consumption with hybrids, e.g.:

• Tyre pressure
• Rolling resistance of tyres (i.e. buying cheap tyres could be a false economy)
• Setting the climate control to higher than necessary heat will increase ICE idling significantly (using heated seats is more efficient, where available)
• Poor driving etiquette, e.g. accelerating and braking hard in start-stop traffic won't do you any favours as you'd be relying mostly on ICE and friction brakes (discs, not regen). I've heard of someone going back to Toyota saying they're getting terrible fuel consumption with their Prius, and being told essentially that they're driving it wrong
• As grogi mentioned, motorway driving at the limit won't return the best fuel economy, but reducing speed by 10-20 km/h will make a big difference - it also makes a negligible difference to your journey time and IMO a more relaxing drive as you're not constantly overtaking

One thing to note is the speedometer on my Prius overreads like crazy (may be the same on the Auris), e.g. 130km/h indicated is 120km/h, about 109km/h = 100km/h, 56km/h = 50km/h. You can confirm with satnav/GPS, or OBDII scanner as that can get the real speed.

jackofalltrades

stimpson wrote: »

In fairness 45mpg average with mostly city driving is excellent. You won't get close to that around town in any diesel.
And no car hits the official test results. I'd say hybrids will be closer to the official numbers than a standard ICE.

45 mpg is fairly crap from a car that gets 70+ mpg in official tests.
Especially from one that is touted as being fuel efficient in city driving.
I've achieved or got very close to the official mpg on most of the cars that I've owned at some point.
My last car could do the official mpg with the driving I'm doing now.
The Auris on the other hand is currently about 18 mpg off it's official figure.
I'd expect it to rise with new tyres, a bit of servicing and summer driving, but I'd say it'll still be way off.

I know people that would do mostly city driving in diesels and are getting in the mid to high 40's on fuel consumption.
And as I posted in another thread I recently got 68 mpg out of a diesel car in mixed driving.

zilog_jones

The NEDC test is a shambles, and particularly bad at representing hybrid fuel consumption in a realistic way. 70+ MPG is pure fantasy. But as I said, 45 MPG is well below average for that car in the real world (also note that one in particular is the 1st gen Auris Hybrid, not the 2012+ model).

jackofalltrades

zilog_jones wrote: »

Rolling resistance of tyres (i.e. buying cheap tyres could be a false economy)

I was surprised to find out that the ones that come new on the car have quite a poor rolling resistance rating.

Setting the climate control to higher than necessary heat will increase ICE idling significantly (using heated seats is more efficient, where available)

Do you have anymore info on this by any chance?

stimpson

jackofalltrades wrote: »

45 mpg is fairly crap from a car that gets 70+ mpg in official tests.
Especially from one that is touted as being fuel efficient in city driving.
I've achieved or got very close to the official mpg on most of the cars that I've owned at some point.
My last car could do the official mpg with the driving I'm doing now.
The Auris on the other hand is currently about 18 mpg off it's official figure.
I'd expect it to rise with new tyres, a bit of servicing and summer driving, but I'd say it'll still be way off.

I know people that would do mostly city driving in diesels and are getting in the mid to high 40's on fuel consumption.
And as I posted in another thread I recently got 68 mpg out of a diesel car in mixed driving.

I get ~50mpg on the motorway at an indicated 120km/h, but on the M50 at rush hour in stop-go traffic I've seen 70mpg over a 20km journey. What brings my average down if the school run which would be most of my weekly drive some weeks and the engine doesn't even get warm.

The official figures are done on a computer controlled rolling road. They bear no comparison to real world driving, but that's hardly the fault of the manufacturers. They should be used to do comparisons between cars - not as an indication of what you'll get in the real world. As I said before, the Auris gets far closer to the advertised numbers than my previous 2.0 Diesels.

There are many variables that effect your mpg as shown in posts above. One thing that makes a huge difference in city driving is weight - if you have the boot full of crap that you lug everywhere, then it's going to make a huge difference around town as you have to accelerate all that mass every time you pull away from the lights.

Technique also plays a big part. Apparently the best way to drive a hybrid on the open road is to accelerate hard to get up to speed (the eCVT gearbox will pick the ratio that allows the engine to work most efficiently) then ease back on the throttle to engage EV mode. Then using burn and coast will squeeze the most out of each drop of petrol. In town the trick is to coast and brake gently (letting the electric motor do regen) and try to anticipate the road ahead so you never come to a stop if possible.

zilog_jones

jackofalltrades wrote: »

Do you have anymore info on this by any chance?

When you're not moving, the only reasons the ICE will kick in are:

1. If the car is going through the startup sequence 1-2 minutes after ICE first starts during a journey (to heat up the cat, etc. - yes, increasing emissions in order to make the emissions control systems work properly :rolleyes:)
2. If the HV battery is at a low state of charge (1-2 bars on the meter in Auris/3rd gen Prius?), the ICE will use MG1 to charge the battery
3. If the climate control is set to heat and the coolant temperature is below whatever threshold

In the Prius/Auris (probably all other Toyota/Lexus hybrids too), the cabin ventilation gets heat from the engine coolant like any normal ICE car. Running the ICE when not moving will make a big impact on fuel consumption. Depending on the situation, just reducing the climate control by 0.5 degrees may be enough to stop the ICE from idling for a few minutes. I find setting it to 17-18.5 degrees usually good enough in winter, although I do have the heated seats on too (usually need some airflow to stop the windows fogging up).

TBi

zilog_jones wrote: »

I find setting it to 17-18.5 degrees usually good enough in winter, although I do have the heated seats on too (usually need some airflow to stop the windows fogging up).

I really wish people would discuss MPG of these cars using them as normal people do. I set my heat to 20C, how much lower will my MPG be?

zilog_jones

I'm not a Toyota engineer and I don't make a living out of monitoring fuel consumption - I think you're expecting a bit too much from "people"

It's undeniable that raising the climate control temperature will increase the ICE duty cycle, but I don't have accurate data to say "raising by x degrees will increase by y l/min" (I'm talking about idling here, so you're not doing any miles). And I have the Plug-in so driving in EV mode can vary between "999" MPG (no ICE) with fans off, and as low as 50-60 MPG doing the same route with the heat on - there are way too many environmental factors that affect this. I don't have a car lab either

stimpson

I guess this is the thing with fuel consumption. There are so may variables that it's unreasonable to expect that you'll hit the stickered MPG. I track mileage on my other car with an app, and I remember being shocked after loaning it to my Dad for the weekend - MPG went from ~24 to 35 for that fill. The only difference is that he drives like a granny and I like the sound of the turbo spinning up!

KCross

stimpson wrote: »

I guess this is the thing with fuel consumption. There are so may variables that it's unreasonable to expect that you'll hit the stickered MPG. I track mileage on my other car with an app, and I remember being shocked after loaning it to my Dad for the weekend - MPG went from ~24 to 35 for that fill. The only difference is that he drives like a granny and I like the sound of the turbo spinning up!

Im shocked a granny can only get 35mpg out of it... what is it!? :pac:

stimpson

KCross wrote: »

Im shocked a granny can only get 35mpg out of it... what is it!? :pac:

Volvo S60 2.0T. It's running on LPG though, so you can basically double the MPG numbers for petrol equivalent as LPG is 66c/l.

jackofalltrades

stimpson wrote: »

I guess this is the thing with fuel consumption. There are so may variables that it's unreasonable to expect that you'll hit the stickered MPG.

And as a rule I wouldn't expect to hit the official figures, even though in open road driving I've hit the combined number for pretty much ever car that I've ever owned.
It's the degree to which the numbers are out on the Auris Hybrid that are the issue.
One person here got 45 mpg, 64% of the official number.
Both cars that I test drove were doing 48 mpg, which is 69%.
Honestjohn.co.uk put it at 77%, which compares badly to the diesel which hits 97%.

It's all down to managing expectations.
If you're customers need to be driving a certain way to get anywhere near official MPG figures then you need to be upfront and tell them this.
If hybrids lead to wildly unrealistic official mpg figures they need to be told this.

zilog_jones

A lot of the problem is that diesel cars existed in the 1970s when the (very flawed) NEDC test was created - hybrids did not. I don't think there's been any update to the cycle pattern since 1990.

The US EPA give much more realistic figures, but you're limited to which cars were sold there with the same engine. The Auris was not sold there, but the 3rd gen Prius (same powertrain, a bit more aerodynamic) got a very achievable combined 60 MPG (imperial) on their tests, compared to the unrealistic 72 MPG for the very same car in European tests.

My car (Prius Plug-in) should get 135 MPG according to the NEDC, but it's a completely useless figure - fuel economy in this case is totally dependant on how much EV driving I'm doing (I get about 75 MPG with 30% EV driving).

jca

I know this thread is a few months old but besides mpg what are they like to drive? I'm thinking of getting a 131 high spec auris hybrid. Are they nice to drive, comfortable, low road noise etc. When are they nicest, motorway or tipping around town?

stimpson

jca wrote: »

I know this thread is a few months old but besides mpg what are they like to drive? I'm thinking of getting a 131 high spec auris hybrid. Are they nice to drive, comfortable, low road noise etc. When are they nicest, motorway or tipping around town?

Quite comfortable. The only unrefined part is the CVT box is a bit noisy. I think you get used to it, but the fact that the revs don't do what you expect is a bit weird. If you test drive one make sure you get the revs up and see what I mean.

I find it quite happy on the motorway and it has more shove than my old 2.0 D4D so it's happy to overtake on an N road. I love the hybrid system around town as the electric mirror has great torque and the lack of a clutch is great.

grogi

jca wrote: »

I know this thread is a few months old but besides mpg what are they like to drive? I'm thinking of getting a 131 high spec auris hybrid. Are they nice to drive, comfortable, low road noise etc. When are they nicest, motorway or tipping around town?

Auris is horrible imho. Very loud, from the road and the air.

Despite being very similar, Prius is much more enjoyable.

stimpson

grogi wrote: »

Auris is horrible imho. Very loud, from the road and the air.

Despite being very similar, Prius is much more enjoyable.

It's really not. My previous Verso and Avensis were far worse and I put it down to the Firestone Tyres. I changed them on the Verso and the sound in the cabin dropped considerably. The Auris HST comes with Continentals and I've never noticed excessive road noise. The interior is head and shoulders over the cheap plastic of the Prius too.

jca

grogi wrote: »

Auris is horrible imho. Very loud, from the road and the air.

Despite being very similar, Prius is much more enjoyable.

I wouldn't be interested in the Prius I can't stand the look of them. They're too scarce/expensive too.

zilog_jones

stimpson wrote: »

Quite comfortable. The only unrefined part is the CVT box is a bit noisy. I think you get used to it, but the fact that the revs don't do what you expect is a bit weird. If you test drive one make sure you get the revs up and see what I mean.

I don't think it's bad at all - once you're on a flat road at a stable speed the engine is very quiet (around 1500 RPM @ 100 km/h). Sure, if you press the loud pedal hard enough, it will get loud - but it's using the engine at its most efficient, and it delivers enough power when you need it. And there is no shift shock, because there are no gears to change. Much more responsive and refined than an equivalent manual diesel in my experience - I could never go back.

grogi wrote: »

Auris is horrible imho. Very loud, from the road and the air.

The problem with hybrids is that because the engine's so much quieter you notice these things more - it may not actually be worse than similar cars. And certain tyres can be much noisier than others (the EU tyre label stuff is not that reliable either for comparison).

jca wrote: »

I wouldn't be interested in the Prius I can't stand the look of them. They're too scarce/expensive too.

Assuming you're looking around 2013, you're talking about the 3rd gen Prius (2009-2015) - are they really that bad? I may be biased because I have one, but the previous gen is dull as dishwater in comparison. I did end up looking at the UK as there's certainly a lot more choice there (also better spec, and the Plug-in version which I bought) - I'd say there would be a greater selection over there for the Auris Hybrid too.

jca

zilog_jones wrote: »

I don't think it's bad at all - once you're on a flat road at a stable speed the engine is very quiet (around 1500 RPM @ 100 km/h). Sure, if you press the loud pedal hard enough, it will get loud - but it's using the engine at its most efficient, and it delivers enough power when you need it. And there is no shift shock, because there are no gears to change. Much more responsive and refined than an equivalent manual diesel in my experience - I could never go back.


The problem with hybrids is that because the engine's so much quieter you notice these things more - it may not actually be worse than similar cars. And certain tyres can be much noisier than others (the EU tyre label stuff is not that reliable either for comparison).



Assuming you're looking around 2013, you're talking about the 3rd gen Prius (2009-2015) - are they really that bad? I may be biased because I have one, but the previous gen is dull as dishwater in comparison. I did end up looking at the UK as there's certainly a lot more choice there (also better spec, and the Plug-in version which I bought) - I'd say there would be a greater selection over there for the Auris Hybrid too.

There are some beautiful Auris Hybrids in the UK but I'd prefer to be able to trade in as I don't really need the hassle of trying to sell my own car. I'm kinda thinking of getting a Leaf now.... I know I know I'm very hard to please... Some lovely leaf's on that eco cars site.

TBi

jca wrote: »

There are some beautiful Auris Hybrids in the UK but I'd prefer to be able to trade in as I don't really need the hassle of trying to sell my own car. I'm kinda thinking of getting a Leaf now.... I know I know I'm very hard to please... Some lovely leaf's on that eco cars site.

Trading in is less hassle but what i do is get the trade in value of my car, which is usually less than the OMSP for it. Put it on donedeal for that amount and usually you'll sell it quick enough.

Remember to say no offers in the ad and hang up on anyone who tries to haggle you on price after you say no offers