letters to be sent home to parents asking them to do s&s

judeboy101

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/parents-may-run-schools-if-teachers-strike-1.2830494

evolving_doors

Where will the dept. get the addresses from?

Maybe the implication is that the school will be using the address list.

deiseindublin

I'd say they think ASTI teachers will hand them out!

Maybe admin staff will be asked to? What about management not allowed to help out with contingency? Wonder how exact that ruling will be?

Be interesting to see how the finer details pan out.

deiseindublin

Thinking about it, I don't know anybody off the top of my head that would be available and willing to hit into a school all day for €38.

Donal55

Garda vetting?

The_Valeyard

It's ridiculous. No decent parent would take that money.

lawred2

Dumbest idea ever

evolving_doors

Donal55 wrote: »

Garda vetting?

I suppose it's quicker than looking for teachers outside the school. So maybe they can get the vetting quicker.

€38 per day... If only there were some way whereby the dept. could pay teachers for doing it instead. They'd save a fortune.

Donal55

I don't really think the Dept.has thought this true.

Donal55

Gebgbegb wrote: »

I suppose it's quicker than looking for teachers outside the school. So maybe they can get the vetting quicker.

€38 per day... If only there were some way whereby the dept. could pay teachers for doing it instead. They'd save a fortune.

With the gardai having their own IR problems with this govt I don't think they'll be rushing anything through.

Lackey

Not a teacher but support them, and wouldn't send my kids in to cross the picket line if they try to do this. Never mind take part.

evolving_doors

Donal55 wrote: »

I don't really think the Dept.has thought this true.

Well it's would appear that they have the ASTI S&S money and they desperately want to spend it. They'll be offering S&S jobs to secondary students over 18 next.

evolving_doors

Lackey wrote: »

Not a teacher but support them, and wouldn't send my kids in to cross the picket line if they try to do this. Never mind take part.

Ya I wonder how many like yourself there are though. For a lot of parents it would mean missing a day's work/pay to stay at home and look after the kids.

I think there appears to be 2 different interpretations of a picket.

1. Nobody crosses it. Even if it's a contractor coming in to do some electrical work.
2. Anyone except the union members may cross.

deiseindublin

Lackey wrote: »

Not a teacher but support them, and wouldn't send my kids in to cross the picket line if they try to do this. Never mind take part.

You'd be helping them more if you did send your kids in!

Lackey

Gebgbegb wrote: »

Ya I wonder how many like yourself there are though. For a lot of parents it would mean missing a day's work/pay to stay at home and look after the kids.

I think there appears to be 2 different interpretations of a picket.

1. Nobody crosses it. Even if it's a contractor coming in to do some electrical work.
2. Anyone except the union members may cross.

I don't think anyone would need to stay home to mind secondary school kids
And any parents I've talked to said they won't send them in or offer to go into the schools
But there will always be some who would I guess

joebloggs32

Gebgbegb wrote: »

Ya I wonder how many like yourself there are though. For a lot of parents it would mean missing a day's work/pay to stay at home and look after the kids.

I think there appears to be 2 different interpretations of a picket.

1. Nobody crosses it. Even if it's a contractor coming in to do some electrical work.
2. Anyone except the union members may cross.

If the ASTI are calling a "Strike", members of other unions are not being asked to also withdraw their labour.
However, if the ASTI were calling for an "All Out Strike" then they would be requesting all other unionised staff to withdraw.

judeboy101

Donal55 wrote: »

Garda vetting?

Parents assoc are already garda vetted and a lot of mammies/daddies on flexitime

Iused2likebusts

I hope lots of parents and other outsiders get to experience the joy of supervising a free class. It may open a lot of eyes which can only be good.

The_Valeyard

Lackey wrote: »

I don't think anyone would need to stay home to mind secondary school kids
And any parents I've talked to said they won't send them in or offer to go into the schools
But there will always be some who would I guess

Yeah, there will always be that one parent who will send their kids into school for baby sitting, or that parent who hates teachers will send their child as a way to give the middle finger to staff

tayto lover

I wonder will they ask people to be Gardai too.
Would be great craic altogether.
I might get to arrest that prick of a neighbour of mine. :pac:

deiseindublin

deiseindublin wrote: »

Thinking about it, I don't know anybody off the top of my head that would be available and willing to hit into a school all day for €38.

How many hours for the €38?

Lord TSC

tayto lover wrote: »

I wonder will they ask people to be Gardai too.
Would be great craic altogether.
I might get to arrest that prick of a neighbour of mine. :pac:

Let me know when its everyone's turn to be a Doctor. Right, I faint at the sight of blood, but sure, I've been sick before so I should know how to deal with colds and such :pac:

tayto lover

Lord TSC wrote: »

Let me know when its everyone's turn to be a Doctor. Right, I faint at the sight of blood, but sure, I've been sick before so I should know how to deal with colds and such :pac:

I think the doctors are scheduled just after the pilots actually.

Lord TSC

tayto lover wrote: »

I think the doctors are scheduled just after the pilots actually.

I mean, I've played Flight Simulator a while back, so I can take a crack at the pilot thing too if needed :P

Mardy Bum

If anyone remembers when supervisors were brought in at the start of the last decade they may recall the disaster it was for everyone and the discipline problems which followed. Most of the supervisors either just stopped working or turned up and do nothing because they couldn't handle it.

spurious

I've seen 'Casualty'. I'll give that doctor thing a go. I'd love to be a newsreader though - they only work 30 minutes a day.

Crazyteacher

Hey you'd learn a lot more from Holby from a surgical perspective !

byhookorbycrook

Bringing parents in is essentially strike breaking. That said, it might let parents see what teachers have to put up with on a day to day basis.

njs030

Should we send them in or keep them at home? I was planning on keeping mine at home in support but an earlier post has made me wonder.

Edit- the teenagers not the parents/teachers etc

judeboy101

spurious wrote: »

I've seen 'Casualty'. I'll give that doctor thing a go. I'd love to be a newsreader though - they only work 30 minutes a day.

Does that mean if hypothetically, one watches porn, it makes one an expert in the art of love making?

man_no_plan

Lord TSC wrote: »

I mean, I've played Flight Simulator a while back, so I can take a crack at the pilot thing too if needed :P

I'm not sure that's required once you've been on a plane or in an airport you should be okay.

man_no_plan

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Bringing parents in is essentially strike breaking. That said, it might let parents see what teachers have to put up with on a day to day basis.

Its not a strike though with the s/s really. They're not doing it cos they're not getting paid. If the des said okay for the s/s we will pay you as we agreed in the HRA that would look after that.

trishasaffron

Many early retired people would be v happy to get these posts.

tayto lover

trishasaffron wrote: »

Many early retired people would be v happy to get these posts.

Fencing forum

---

>

myshirt

spurious wrote: »

I've seen 'Casualty'. I'll give that doctor thing a go. I'd love to be a newsreader though - they only work 30 minutes a day.

You have the completely wrong mindset, conceived of for an entirely different age and this is continuously the problem with teachers. Listen, it is absolutely and unequivocally true that teachers only work 30 hours a week, and 8.5 months a year, albeit paid in 12 installments. That is nearly €30.00 an hour out of college on current payscales, day 1, which is exorbitant. 5-10 years post qualification even more so. And current levels of pensions paid are off the wall in terms of disconnect between economics, fair society, and decency to your younger colleagues. It is not the government that done one over on younger colleagues. It is the current over 35's in the job and you should be outrightly ashamed of yourselves.

Newsflash, we all do work outside factory hours and invest in our careers, abilities, and cpd, and getting off the ground when starting out and learning the job, many nights and weekends getting better and better at the curriculum and competencies, we just dont stick the paw out at every opportunity like teachers, chipping at everything and anything we can for more and more money. Like the ASTI want to be paid for supervision? Come off it.

Many of us work 48-52 hours a week, every week, and do work outside that that would be comparable to your equivalent of preparing lesson plans and correcting, that is the nature of a knowledge driven economy which everyone benefits from in standard of living.

I train young accountants and I do it in my own time, and when I was schooling I didn't short change kids in the classroom and charge them for grinds outside the school walls. I put my own time into delivering the job, because that was the job, and I focused on the job. How would you sleep at night. Genuinely.

This is outrageous that you would compare the 30 minutes a newsreader is on as to somehow suggest that teachers are the only ones with unseen efforts going into their job. We all put efforts into our jobs.

spurious

trishasaffron wrote: »

Many early retired people would be v happy to get these posts.

Count me out of that. I would rather stick needles in my eyes than go back to the abuse, however much they paid me.

I would love a TD to take a full day's classes in my old school and see what the job actually entails.

spurious

myshirt wrote: »

You have the completely wrong mindset,

It was a joke, borne out of the 'sure aren't teachers off at three every day' nonsense.
Believe me, I am only too aware of what teaching is like (having actually done it) and it's a lot more than 30 hours a week, 8.5 months a year.

myshirt

spurious wrote: »

It was a joke, borne out of the 'sure aren't teachers off at three every day' nonsense.
Believe me, I am only too aware of what teaching is like (having actually done it) and it's a lot more than 30 hours a week, 8.5 months a year.

My job at €30.00 p/h (and any other job at €30.00p/h) was 40 hours a week, 48 weeks a year; or 54 hours a week, 48 weeks a year if I apply the logic of teachers. Teaching is 30hours a week, 36 weeks a year, on a comparable basis and that is what we all mean when we say teachers work 30 hours.

An excellent, excellent deal. And for a noble profession. Your unions and older members are just a serious, serious problem. I really feel sorry for the young teachers with what you have done to them and that this false narrative of 'pay restoration' continues. Why not do the decent thing, put your hands up, admit there was a massive, massive disconnect between what teachers were paid and the natural rate, take the hit, forfeit the pensions, give back the allowances, and allow money to be pumped into the younger teachers.

I for one will gladly support this request from schools and I'll catch up with my work on top of it.

jonseyblub

myshirt wrote: »

Y

I train young accountants and I do it in my own time, and when I was schooling I didn't short change kids in the classroom and charge them for grinds outside the school walls.
.

Yeah i must have about 10 kids who I teach poorly in school who I then charge their parents €100 per hour to give grinds......parents fall for it each time!!!

evolving_doors

spurious wrote: »

I've seen 'Casualty'. I'll give that doctor thing a go. I'd love to be a newsreader though - they only work 30 minutes a day.

Adele only records songs 3:30mins long..

Then she gets the rest of the year off... Lazy sod. We'll...Sorry. except for an hour or two every week on stage... But she just rehashes songs like teachers rehash lesson plans.

Hold on!....
....drops chalk and runs to windmill Lane..

evolving_doors

I also drove a bus on Grand theft auto iv

mtoutlemonde

Gebgbegb wrote: »

Adele only records songs 3:30mins long..

Then she gets the rest of the year off... Lazy sod. We'll...Sorry. except for an hour or two every week on stage... But she just rehashes songs like teachers rehash lesson plans.

Hold on!....
....drops chalk and runs to windmill Lane..

What about these guys?

http://www.independent.ie/entertainment/television/tv-news/tubridy-earns-rts-biggest-salary-as-duffy-enjoys-113k-pay-increase-34543861.html

Mr. Tubridy earns €495,000 for a one hour radio programme daily and a three hour programme on a Friday night and Mr. Duffy who answers the phone gets €415,000+ and don't forget Mr. D'Arcy who cannot interview his guests properly, who either insults them or uses stupid jokes has a salary of €500,000 - all of these are paid by a contribution from tax payer through the license fee and nothing is seen as wrong with that but god forbid the teacher who teaches the young to fulfil their dreams teaching them to read/write/a new language/build something in metal/wood etc. who is on a fraction of their salaries.

amacca

myshirt wrote: »

My job at €30.00 p/h (and any other job at €30.00p/h) was 40 hours a week, 48 weeks a year; or 54 hours a week, 48 weeks a year if I apply the logic of teachers. Teaching is 30hours a week

Thats not the logic of teachers...thats your logic and incorrect imo in the vast majority of cases.....its a hell of lot more than 30hours a week when all is said and done.....and more on top of that with extra curricular etc

myshirt wrote: »

An excellent, excellent deal. And for a noble profession. Your unions and older members are just a serious, serious problem. I really feel sorry for the young teachers with what you have done to them and that this false narrative of 'pay restoration' continues.

Its all relative I suppose, I used to think it was a good deal when I did it but looking at whats happened to the working conditions from about 10/15 years ago and in the recent past I'm not so sure, now i think the only two things really going for it is the summer holidays and teaching the still fair sized percentage of students/young people in a lot of schools that are reasonable, hard working and want to get on (thats actually the bit of the work most teachers like imo) ......and even the latter is something that doesn't happen in some schools where its either crowd control or policing.....

As far as I can see the unions are the only thing that are preserving some sort of standards and working conditions for all as flawed as the approach might possibly be in some cases........I honestly not sure what else they could have done in this case???

I would also say that older members are no more a "problem" than any members, younger ones included...in fact in the past younger members have not had their voices heard because they have not attended meetings, spoken up or played any kind of active part...and thats not mentioning some of the younger members that don't bother joining at all...its not reasonable to expect representation without engaging......its my understanding that there are many more younger members now so its not surprising then that pay equalisation is one of the big issues

myshirt wrote: »

Why not do the decent thing, put your hands up, admit there was a massive, massive disconnect between what teachers were paid and the natural rate

I wasn't aware there was a "natural rate".....whats that? a rate determined by the laws of nature?.....out of interest what factors go into deciding the natural rate? would it be things like graduate and postgraduate experience required to do the job and opportunity cost never mind actual cost arising from acquiring these qualifications, lack of promotion opportunities in general unless you want to be a principal/deputy principal, difficult nature of the work at times even with majority of well behaved students, the lack of any real sanctions or extreme difficulty of applying them in the case of continuous disruptive behaviour due to well meaning but not well thought out or fit for purpose legislation to deal with the sort of behavioural issues of today, numerous responsibilities and legal requirements, codes of practice that have to be followed (just like other professions), the near certainty extra curricular in some form or other will be expected and will have to be be carried out which will eat into the frankly bull**** 22 hours you will be incessantly near attacked about by people who couldn't stand to actually do the job but are well able to criticise you for doing it etc etc..... or would you be talking about the childminding rate?

myshirt wrote: »

take the hit, forfeit the pensions, give back the allowances, and allow money to be pumped into the younger teachers.

A bit unrealistic don't you think? ..... what would be the point of training and working for years to be qualified and earn the kind of money that doing all those things would entail......would your partner think it would be a good idea for you to forfeit your pension? a pension btw you have paid into and for quite some time hasn't been nearly as gold plated as some seem to think......a pension which you'd have to wonder will still be there in 10/20/30 years time anyway

myshirt wrote: »

I for one will gladly support this request from schools and I'll catch up with my work on top of it.

I think you should, I sincerely think it would be an eye opener for you...but not just for the one day or the first day try and do it over even a number of days and let the kids get used to you and begin to test your boundaries and also try achieve something small....like keeping a group of kids on task for 5 minutes...then extrapolate that teaching a topic and you are not even imo 1% of the way to how difficult a work environment it can be even for people who are trained....as an added bonus I'd love if you try it in a school where some of your "students" are from disadvantaged/severely disadvantaged backgrounds

btw....if you do catch up on your work on top of it I can guarantee you are not doing it properly.

CramCycle

spurious wrote: »

Count me out of that. I would rather stick needles in my eyes than go back to the abuse, however much they paid me.

I would love a TD to take a full day's classes in my old school and see what the job actually entails.

To be fair plenty of TDS are qualified teachers and don't seem to be up to much.

Donal55

National Parents Council pouring cold water on this idea.

myshirt

@amacca, in fact that is exactly the profile of kids I have worked with, and I have served on 2 different charities in Limerick over a ten year period directly involved in education in socio economic disadvantage from primary school level, school drop outs, and young offenders.

I am no longer as heavily involved as I would like to be as I have kids of my own, with disabilities.
If you want context.

Genuinely, and I mean it whole heartedly, the very vast majority of the cohort of your membership over 35 years old at this time have absolutely no sense of decency at all. It is appalling that the ASTI have the gall to try do what they are trying to do now. The leaders should remember when they are pointing the finger of blame at the government that there are 3 fingers pointing back at them. It is the unions that imposed the cuts disproportionately on the younger members, to continue the gravy train for the older. Not the government. Running his narrative of 'pay restoration' is disingenuous right to the core and it rightly stinks of a brass neck.

Do the decent thing ffs. Cut the money of the older members in favour of the younger teachers. Have the courage. Accept the facts. Teachers of this generation were vastly, vastly overpaid. It is widely known and accepted.

byhookorbycrook

myshirt wrote: »

It is the unions that imposed the cuts disproportionately on the younger members, to continue the gravy train for the older. Not the government. Running his narrative of 'pay restoration' is disingenuous right to the core and it rightly stinks of a brass neck.

Do the decent thing ffs. Cut the money of the older members in favour of the younger teachers. Have the courage. Accept the facts. Teachers of this generation were vastly, vastly overpaid. It is widely known and accepted.

*Sigh* How many times will people continue to spout the "sell out" and incorrect guff.
*Overpaid- really? Widely known and accepted, please do post the data you have to back this up?

amacca

myshirt wrote: »

Accept the facts. Teachers of this generation were vastly, vastly overpaid. It is widely known and accepted.

I'm afraid we will have to vastly vastly differ.

BTW: Vast = of very great extent or quantity; immense. synonyms: huge, extensive, expansive, broad, wide, boundless, immeasurable, limitless, infinite, enormous, gigantic, very big, very large, great, giant, massive, colossal, mammoth, immense, tremendous, mighty, stupendous, monumental, epic, prodigious, mountainous, monstrous, titanic, towering, elephantine, king-sized, king-size, gargantuan, Herculean, Brobdingnagian

I also afraid my frail human mind would be incapable of grasping what "vastly, vastly" might be but I do know I'm paid a lot more now that I'm not a teacher so I must be on a masters of the universe style wage packet :pac: lucky me

also

Fact = a thing that is proved to be true.

I don't believe the above are "facts" at all but if you insist on them then I think you should have to back them up...properly with full reference all the variables that affect the role from developed economy to developed economy...

tayto lover

TD's going to be asked tomorrow to forego their 5K rise.
Do they seriously think that this is going to soften up the gardai and the teachers? If they do then they're even more naive than I thought.

dresden8

Data Protection.

For what purpose were those names and addressed harvested?

Are they useful for another purpose?

Definitely not.

jamie124

I'm 18 and was thinking of applying to this? I've done my leaving cert and would be interested in supervising classes. I'm studying to become an SNA and then hopefully further on down the line a secondary school teacher.