Bike trackers

Chuchote

I'd love to put a tracker in my bike. The problem is the phone companies.

I talked to a cyclist in London who had tracked his bike to someone a kilometre away who had stolen it and was using it. He reclaimed the bicycle with the help of police, and the thief was prosecuted.

But the reason he could do this was that Vodafone, I think it is, had a cheap SIM deal which meant that he could use a SIM on 2G in a TrackBike tracker to send automatic texts if the bike was moved, and track the bike at all times - and this cost him only £2 a month. If I have the amount right; it was ages ago on Twitter and I'm not certain of the details, but I think that was the deal.

Here, you won't get a cheap SIM and some of the phone companies don't support 2G (used by the trackers) at all.

If trackers became universal in bikes, bike theft would stop in its… tracks.

LollipopJimmy

Chuchote wrote: »

I'd love to put a tracker in my bike. The problem is the phone companies.

I talked to a cyclist in London who had tracked his bike to someone a kilometre away who had stolen it and was using it. He reclaimed the bicycle with the help of police, and the thief was prosecuted.

But the reason he could do this was that Vodafone, I think it is, had a cheap SIM deal which meant that he could use a SIM on 2G in a TrackBike tracker to send automatic texts if the bike was moved, and track the bike at all times - and this cost him only £2 a month. If I have the amount right; it was ages ago on Twitter and I'm not certain of the details, but I think that was the deal.

Here, you won't get a cheap SIM and some of the phone companies don't support 2G (used by the trackers) at all.

If trackers became universal in bikes, bike theft would stop in its… tracks.

I'm open to correction on this but I think an annual sub from Vodafone of around €39 works with trackers.

I have Climote in my house (best thing ever when cycling in the winter) and I have to pay €39 a year to register the sim

Chuchote

LollipopJimmy wrote: »

I'm open to correction on this but I think an annual sub from Vodafone of around €39 works with trackers.

I have Climote in my house (best thing ever when cycling in the winter) and I have to pay €39 a year to register the sim

Got a link? (And do you know if Vodafone serve G2 here?) I was about to sell that TrackBike I bought, but would reconsider if I could put a SIM in for €39 a year. Does that cover the SIM's texts and tracking?

LollipopJimmy

Chuchote wrote: »

Got a link? (And do you know if Vodafone serve G2 here?) I was about to sell that TrackBike I bought, but would reconsider if I could put a SIM in for €39 a year. Does that cover the SIM's texts and tracking?

I don't know a massive amount about it, I actually pay Electric Ireland for the sim registration rather than Vodafone directly

Maybe a thread over on the talk to forum might yield some results?

Chuchote

LollipopJimmy wrote: »

I don't know a massive amount about it, I actually pay Electric Ireland for the sim registration rather than Vodafone directly

Maybe a thread over on the talk to forum might yield some results?

Wandered over and directed the Vodafone experts hopefully to this thread.

My own mobile service is elsewhere; however I'd get this from Vodafone if I could.

Edit - this is what Vodafone said:

Our 2G network is widely available across the country. If you wish to use the SIM in a tracking device, you can purchase any Pay As You Go SIM card in store or online and pay the standard rates per mb when connecting to data. Alternatively you could opt into a top up offer that includes calls and texts (these may not be of use) however you get a monthly data allowance with these plans for €20/€30 per month depending on the plan you choose.

#lolz

Zimmerframe

Best way that I see is get a Lyca mobile sim.
Top up by €5 per month and you get free 10gb data per month. You can also have a recurring €4 text bundle to use up your credit, so you can call or text your tracker as required.
I know it's €60 per year, but it's not bad. I have one in my quad.

magicbastarder

Zimmerframe wrote: »

I know it's €60 per year, but it's not bad. I have one in my quad.

your left or your right quad? did it hurt; is it like having a pet microchipped?

Cookie_Monster

https://www.thetrackr.com/bravo/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=Bravo_Search_GeneralKeywords_cpc&utm_campaign=Bravo_Search_GeneralKeywords&gclid=Cj0KEQjw4fy_BRCX7b6rq_WZgI0BEiQAl78nd7Lf0Sx4uOeKYNLuVfWcN-418neGFgPXNLzuQV6ECysaAlOF8P8HAQ

get a bluetooth based one. It'll ping local phones with bluetooth switch on apparently.

Chuchote

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

https://www.thetrackr.com/bravo/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=Bravo_Search_GeneralKeywords_cpc&utm_campaign=Bravo_Search_GeneralKeywords&gclid=Cj0KEQjw4fy_BRCX7b6rq_WZgI0BEiQAl78nd7Lf0Sx4uOeKYNLuVfWcN-418neGFgPXNLzuQV6ECysaAlOF8P8HAQ

get a bluetooth based one. It'll ping local phones with bluetooth switch on apparently.

I actually have a Tile or two (kind Christmas presents), but I'm not sure that I can track them beyond a couple of hundred metres…?

Cookie_Monster

Chuchote wrote: »

I actually have a Tile or two (kind Christmas presents), but I'm not sure that I can track them beyond a couple of hundred metres…?

you can't personally but isn't the 'group' track thing the point that other will pick it up passively and at least give you a ball park? No personal experience so can't say how well it works but thats what it reads like

Chuchote

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

you can't personally but isn't the 'group' track thing the point that other will pick it up passively and at least give you a ball park? No personal experience so can't say how well it works but thats what it reads like

I'm not sure if just a phone with Bluetooth will pick it up, or a phone with Bluetooth and with the Tile app enabled.

CramCycle

Chuchote wrote: »

I'm not sure if just a phone with Bluetooth will pick it up, or a phone with Bluetooth and with the Tile app enabled.

When another TrackR user is within range of your lost item, you will receive a GPS update.

Only if another person with the app is nearby, so without good uptake, only useful if you have an idea where your bike is anyway.

Chuchote

CramCycle wrote: »

Only if another person with the app is nearby, so without good uptake, only useful if you have an idea where your bike is anyway.

Yeah, that's what I thought. The SIM ones seem to be state of the art at the moment:

http://www.sherlock.bike/en/technical-specifications/ Sherlock, SIM, can't see any price, 132mm length may preclude use in smaller bikes (?)
http://www.spybike.com/ SpyBike, SIM, have one of these and will probably sell it because I haven't found aftersales care good, and because again, it probably won't fit my small bike
Rothar, proposed Irish Bluetooth yokey http://codeforireland.com/portfolio/rothar/
https://velocate.com/en/our-products/velocate-vc1-rear-light/ Velocate, SIM - apparently very popular in Germany, where it's identical to the most used rear light - €179. It includes both SIM tracking and Bluetooth tracking.
If an Irish company could make a version of this, and do a deal with Virgin or Vodafone for a €2-per-month dedicated SIM for their version, I'd be on it like white on rice.


General piece on several of these, including a lock that screams if you touch it (would be tempting to call it after a politician…) http://www.postscapes.com/gps-bike-tracker/

Chuchote

Dublin City Council has offered funding for an Irish anti-theft bike tracker, and five companies are competing for it:

https://www.siliconrepublic.com/innovation/smart-city-cycling-dublin

Beasty

Posts moved from Cycling legislation thread

ted1

Forget about SIM Ines, look for Ines that use sigfox its a narrowband system designed for IOT.
Much cheaper and battery life is great
SIM based frackers are obsolete as are Bluetooth based ones.
Here's an example.
http://www.munstergps.ie/hidnseek.htm

For those that like playing with stuff

http://www.instructables.com/id/Sigfox-GPS-Tracker/

Chuchote

ted1 wrote: »

Forget about SIM Ines, look for Ines that use sigfox its a narrowband system designed for IOT.
Much cheaper and battery life is great
SIM based frackers are obsolete as are Bluetooth based ones.
Here's an example.
http://www.munstergps.ie/hidnseek.htm

For those that like playing with stuff

http://www.instructables.com/id/Sigfox-GPS-Tracker/

These seem to be one of the five companies Dublin City Council has backed for anti-bike-theft tracking tech - Hidnseek.

It works for "up to one month" without a battery recharge? The site warns that it may be too big or too heavy for certain children; however, I can't see any dimensions or weight listed? It sounds a little fecky-aroundy to turn on and off; you couldn't turn it off at all if you put it inside a bike frame, for instance.

Their web portal for tracking is based in France, where the device is made https://www.hidnseek.fr/

ted1

Chuchote wrote: »

These seem to be one of the five companies Dublin City Council has backed for anti-bike-theft tracking tech - Hidnseek.

It works for "up to one month" without a battery recharge? The site warns that it may be too big or too heavy for certain children; however, I can't see any dimensions or weight listed? It sounds a little fecky-aroundy to turn on and off; you couldn't turn it off at all if you put it inside a bike frame, for instance.

Their web portal for tracking is based in France, where the device is made https://www.hidnseek.fr/

The devices are based on off the shelf self contained chips. Buy one if these TD1205P and add a Battery and you are ready to go

Don't know how the Irish company conned money out of Dublin City.
They are to cheap to make.

Chuchote

Nobody conned any money. Dublin City Council gave development funds to five companies to develop a bike tracker and/or other technology to help bike traffic in the city; this was one of the companies.

Chuchote

Looking at the HidnSeek… Ted1, you say these are cheap to make, but the various versions of this technology online seem to be around the same price.
The HidnSeek is a little cheaper from the French site (€139) https://www.hidnseek.fr/shop#st1a than from the Irish site http://www.munstergps.ie/hidnseek.htm (€169), but this may be because of VAT differences. In both cases there's a €20 (€19.90) service charge; it's not clear what the service entails.

What is Sigfox? This: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sigfox French-develped system to network the 'Internet of Things'.

The HidnSeek is relatively new - June 2015 it was being tested in "the Irish Capital", though the coverage didn't arouse my personal confidence -



The gadget looks a little large to use for bike tracking, in this pic where it seems to be beside a phone -



All told, I'll be waiting for Dublin City Council's results; don't think I've found the right bike tracker yet. But that's me - if others have tested it out and find it good, please do review it here.

For more information, here's their video introduction:

My impression from looking quickly online at the five companies Dublin City Council has funded for a startup development based on the technology they're developing is that the council has chosen really well - it's chosen the best companies to fund. I'm no expert, mind, but these look like the kind of technologies that are likely to provide good results.

Some more Sigfox devices:
http://shop.whistle.com/products/whistle-gps-pet-tracker - pet tracker, apparently US-only, $49 - but then asks for a "monthly plan" of around $7 to $10 a month!
Capturs http://www.capturs.com/en/ designed for sportspeople http://www.capturs.com/fr/produit/balise-gps/ €159
DIY version http://www.instructables.com/id/Sigfox-GPS-Tracker/
Aguila1000S http://aguila.fr/en/solutions/geolocalization/222-aguila1000s-en for fleet tracking, can't see a price
TiFiz http://www.ticatag.com/product/tifiz/?lang=en €99 plus sub of €19.90 (3 months), €29,90 (6 months) or €49,90 (12 months) - these subs are described as 'TTC', dunno what that means

It appears to me that this market is wide open for anyone who wants to offer a Ryanair disruption and sell it for €99 with no contract costs, hoping to pile-'em-high-and-sell-'em-cheap.

ted1

Most use the chip I linked above which has everything onboard GPS/sigfox receiver and transmitter. You just need to add a battery and casing. Then you just need to put together an APP which for anyone who makes apps is pretty straight forward.

The chip is very cheap. Dublin City could have got one designed for them and they could sell it themselves.

The sigfox network has greatly expanded since June 2015.

Chuchote

ted1 wrote: »

Most use the chip I linked above which has everything onboard GPS/sigfox receiver and transmitter. You just need to add a battery and casing. Then you just need to put together an APP which for anyone who makes apps is pretty straight forward.

The chip is very cheap. Dublin City could have got one designed for them and they could sell it themselves.

The sigfox network has greatly expanded since June 2015.

I would assume that this is what the council is doing, or one of the things it's doing, in giving development funds to those five companies. Will be great if it happens timely.

Samdog

Bought Hidnseek device and have been using it for nearly a month but not on a bike. Mostly around Carlow in my van. 30% battery left after 25 days. I got it for hillwalking really. (Had an incident where I was in a pub with no phone coverage and Mountain rescue was almost called out for me).

The device takes getting used to. When driving it often logs a position much less often than every 10 minutes. It always logs a position when parked. When walking it logs as it should. I suspect that the gps chip is low powered (to save battery) and has difficulty at driving speeds but it may be a coverage problem for all I know. The site sometimes seems slow to update the position (up to 15 minutes sometimes).

I have not had a chance to try it other than around Carlow or in the Blackstairs and would be interested to know how it might work elsewhere.

I have a conventional hand-held gps but it eats batteries and in any case it cannot tell others where I am. Smart phones go dead when you need them and coverage is an issue in places still. My concerned other half has the app on their phone so in an emergency would be able to send help to the right place even in the absence of communication of any sort from me.

The device cannot tell you where you are unless you have a smartpphone with the app as it has no screen (or any butons etc. either).

Overall I think it is a very good piece of kit.


The Captur device seems better speced but seems not to be available yet. You can send a distress message from it if needed.

Chuchote

Samdog wrote: »

Bought Hidnseek device and have been using it

I wonder will the signal go through Sugru (which could be used for fastening it in place).

Wishbone Ash

Chuchote wrote: »

..If trackers became universal in bikes, bike theft would stop in its… tracks.

I presume the places to fit a tracker on a bike are fairly limited compared to larger vehicles. What's to stop the professional thief from simply checking whether the bike has a tracker and then simply removing it if fitted?

....or am I missing something?

Chuchote

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

I presume the places to fit a tracker on a bike are fairly limited compared to larger vehicles. What's to stop the professional thief from simply checking whether the bike has a tracker and then simply removing it if fitted?

....or am I missing something?

Nothing. But most bikes aren't stolen by professional thieves. And if there was a wave of prosecutions for receiving stolen goods, with embarrassed middle-class people getting convictions that would stop them, for instance, working in the US (should they want to) this might soften the cough of thieves and receivers.

The problem at the moment, it seems to me, is that trackers are big - for instance, that HidnSeek is a bit big - palm size. Miniaturisation would make these lots more attractive; if you could trap them down the bottom of bike tubes, they'd be harder for thieves to find and neutralise.

magicbastarder

you're assuming that the cops will rescue your bike for you if you give them the location. this is not necessarily going to happen.

Chuchote

magicbastarder wrote: »

you're assuming that the cops will rescue your bike for you if you give them the location. this is not necessarily going to happen.

True; but nine times out of ten if you know where your bike is, you can bring a lock, lock it yourself and then call the cops.

Looking at HidnSeek's guts, the parts make it difficult to miniaturise.

Wishbone Ash

Chuchote wrote: »

Nothing. But most bikes aren't stolen by professional thieves....

But if they became universal as you said in your OP, any two bit thief would know about them.

Chuchote wrote: »

....If trackers became universal in bikes, bike theft would stop in its… tracks.

robyntmorton

The main thing here is that they need to be affordable, easy to install, difficult to remove, and inconspicuous.

If they become widespread enough, two bit thieves will either stop seeing bikes as opportune targets, or will have to become expert in the locating and removing of the myriad of available trackers.

magicbastarder

Chuchote wrote: »

True; but nine times out of ten if you know where your bike is, you can bring a lock, lock it yourself and then call the cops.

unfortunately, that's assuming that the bike is publically accessible, and also has the issue that you're placing a lock on a bike which almost by definition has been taken by someone who has defeated the previous lock.

it's a reaction which can only - and should only - play second fiddle to prevention and prosecution. unfortunately the latter is not dependable at all.