I think my boss wants to sack me

CobraClan

I've been in my job now for about 1 and half years now and I thought things were going pretty good for me! Last week the foreman in the factory said to me that the boss was thinking about getting a young fella in to train as an apprentice! Straight away I got a bad feeling this was going to effect my position in the company but I just thought I'd see what happens in the future! So anyway, as you might know the minimum wage which I am on was raised by 10 cent an hour in the budget. Last January when it was raised to 9.15 an hour the boss tried to withhold giving us the wage increase but gave in in the end! Today I go into work and the boss called me in for a chat! What he said to me next is unbelievable! He said to me would I like to work in a building providers? I said no, I use to work in one and didn't enjoy the job, that I am happy working here! Then he says I might have to put you on a 3 day a week! I just said it to him out straight, are you not happy with my work? I'm never late, iv only missed one day since I started the job and that was before last Christmas, I get all my work done way before the time limit! Then he said would I work of the books into the hand! I said no, I was on the dole long enough I'm not going back on it! Then he gets up and says, we'll I'm busy now we'll talk about it Monday! I am literally sick to my stomach, I was living at home with my mother and after saving a deposit I moved into my own place at the beginning of August! I don't know what to do now, if I end up back on the dole I'll lose this place, I wouldn't be able to afford it even if I was getting rent allowance which the landlord wouldn't except anyway because he wanted a working tenant! Plus only a few more months to Xmas! Do I have any rights here, what can I say to my boss Monday morning so he doesn't sack me? I know he wants to let me go so he can take someone on off the books and not pay a full wage! He's putting me back in the same position I was in 2 years ago! My head is wrecked!

davo10

CobraClan wrote: »

I've been in my job now for about 1 and half years now and I thought things were going pretty good for me! Last week the foreman in the factory said to me that the boss was thinking about getting a young fella in to train as an apprentice! Straight away I got a bad feeling this was going to effect my position in the company but I just thought I'd see what happens in the future! So anyway, as you might know the minimum wage which I am on was raised by 10 cent an hour in the budget. Last January when it was raised to 9.15 an hour the boss tried to withhold giving us the wage increase but gave in in the end! Today I go into work and the boss called me in for a chat! What he said to me next is unbelievable! He said to me would I like to work in a building providers? I said no, I use to work in one and didn't enjoy the job, that I am happy working here! Then he says I might have to put you on a 3 day a week! I just said it to him out straight, are you not happy with my work? I'm never late, iv only missed one day since I started the job and that was before last Christmas, I get all my work done way before the time limit! Then he said would I work of the books into the hand! I said no, I was on the dole long enough I'm not going back on it! Then he gets up and says, we'll I'm busy now we'll talk about it Monday! I am literally sick to my stomach, I was living at home with my mother and after saving a deposit I moved into my own place at the beginning of August! I don't know what to do now, if I end up back on the dole I'll lose this place, I wouldn't be able to afford it even if I was getting rent allowance which the landlord wouldn't except anyway because he wanted a working tenant! Plus only a few more months to Xmas! Do I have any rights here, what can I say to my boss Monday morning so he doesn't sack me? I know he wants to let me go so he can take someone on off the books and not pay a full wage! He's putting me back in the same position I was in 2 years ago! My head is wrecked!

If he sacks you, go straight to a solicitor and put in a claim for unfair dismissal. He cannot just sack you because he wants to pay someone else less cash in hand. If you win an unfair dismissals case, you may get redress of up to two years wages.

Kristopherus

davo10 wrote: »

If he sacks you, go straight to a solicitor and put in a claim for unfair dismissal. He cannot just sack you because he wants to pay someone else less cash in hand. If you win an unfair dismissals case, you may get redress of up to two years wages.

And also if he sacks you, tell him you will also be reporting him to NERA and to Revenue re the cash-in -hand scheme.

dilallio

If I were you, I'd install a voice recording app on your phone and have it ready for your next 'chat' on Monday.

Grandeeod

WRC is the place to go. Keep things steady and calm. They are starting to do a really great job and simply.

CobraClan

davo10 wrote: »

If he sacks you, go straight to a solicitor and put in a claim for unfair dismissal. He cannot just sack you because he wants to pay someone else less cash in hand. If you win an unfair dismissals case, you may get redress of up to two years wages.

How would I be able to prove that is why he dismissed me, does he have the right to let me go because the minimum wage rate has gone up! This employer is really tight, there's no perks in the job what so ever, he doesn't even pay sick days! He closes the factory for 2 weeks in August for the summer holidays, the weeks leading up to it he does be like a pig because he has to give us a handout, what he calls it, for the holidays!

CobraClan

dilallio wrote: »

If I were you, I'd install a voice recording app on your phone and have it ready for your next 'chat' on Monday.

Haha, I think I will do that! Cheers

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater

CobraClan wrote: »

How would I be able to prove that is why he dismissed me, does he have the right to let me go because the minimum wage rate has gone up! This employer is really tight, there's no perks in the job what so ever, he doesn't even pay sick days! He closes the factory for 2 weeks in August for the summer holidays, the weeks leading up to it he does be like a pig because he has to give us a handout, what he calls it, for the holidays!

He sounds like a prize twat. He has no right to let you go if the minimum wage is raised, the point is that it is illegal to pay someone less than 9.15 for an hour's work. He hasn't a leg to stand on here, he's trying to bully you.

Go in on Monday morning with your facts straight. Let him know that you know your rights and that you'll be straight on to your solictor if he tries it.

minikin

Don't waste your time and energy on any of this — start looking for your next job right now, much easier to get one while you're currently employed.

blindside88

dilallio wrote: »

If I were you, I'd install a voice recording app on your phone and have it ready for your next 'chat' on Monday.

Don't do this, it's illegal to record someone without their consent

CobraClan

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote: »

He sounds like a prize twat. He has no right to let you go if the minimum wage is raised, the point is that it is illegal to pay someone less than 9.15 for an hour's work. He hasn't a leg to stand on here, he's trying to bully you.

Go in on Monday morning with your facts straight. Let him know that you know your rights and that you'll be straight on to your solictor if he tries it.

If I go in Monday morning and start making threats he will definitely want me gone! He has the power to make things hard on me if he likes and he would!

Grandeeod

minikin wrote: »

Don't waste your time and energy on any of this — start looking for your next job right now, much easier to get one while you're currently employed.

But that's exactly why employers continue to exploite.

CobraClan

minikin wrote: »

Don't waste your time and energy on any of this — start looking for your next job right now, much easier to get one while you're currently employed.

I think your right, this has been in the back of my head since I started the job! It's just that I was unemployed for so long before this job I'm terrified of be unemployed again! It's quite clear that my position in this job will never be secure no matter what happens Monday, in a few weeks or months he'll find an excuse to let me go, happy to ruin someone's life all for the sake of saving a few bucks!

TheChizler

blindside88 wrote: »

dilallio wrote: »

If I were you, I'd install a voice recording app on your phone and have it ready for your next 'chat' on Monday.

Don't do this, it's illegal to record someone without their consent

Someone says this at least once a week on here. It's only to do with being admissible in court, and only inadmissible if no parties in the recording are aware it it. That said I'd be slow to be secretly recording conversations.

Esel

blindside88 wrote: »

Don't do this, it's illegal to record someone without their consent

Not illegal if one party (i.e. the OP) is aware the conversation is being recorded, afaik.

RoyalMarine

minikin wrote: »

Don't waste your time and energy on any of this — start looking for your next job right now, much easier to get one while you're currently employed.

This is the worst advice I've seen on here.

Seriously, all your doing is making the OP feel worse in their current situation.

If you have nothing constructive, move to another thread...

OP, is there a shop steward that could accompany you to the meeting with the boss? Going in alone Can be stressful.

Has there been any chat from other workers about the minimum pay increase?

minikin

Grandeeod wrote: »

But that's exactly why employers continue to exploite.

I'd be more concerned with the op's ability to pay his rent and generally getting on with life rather than social justice warrioring...

Corca Baiscinn

OP your panic is understandable, who would want to go back to life on the dole and you have just got your independence by renting your own place. But dont forget you're not in the same position now as you were when you started this job as you have 18 month's work experience under your belt. I dont know what part of the country you are in and it is totally understandable you don't want to give any info that might identify you. They say the economy has picked up but not every part of the country has had an uplift. The poster who said to start looking for something else now while you are still in work is right, it is easier to get a job when you have a job. I think you are right to be worried about taking this fella on, you might have the law on your side but if he denies everything or makes your life miserable it wont be easy/possible to stay working there. it might be better to stay put, and look for a new job if possible. You could win a case but be branded a trouble-maker and find it hard to get another job. Best of luck!

blindside88

TheChizler wrote: »

Someone says this at least once a week on here. It's only to do with being admissible in court, and only inadmissible if no parties in the recording are aware it it. That said I'd be slow to be secretly recording conversations.

As far as I know it's illegal under the data protection act but I am open to correction on this. You are effectively storing data on someone without their consent which is illegal under the data protection act

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

CobraClan

RoyalMarine wrote: »

This is the worst advice I've seen on here.

Seriously, all your doing is making the OP feel worse in their current situation.

If you have nothing constructive, move to another thread...

OP, is there a shop steward that could accompany you to the meeting with the boss? Going in alone Can be stressful.

Has there been any chat from other workers about the minimum pay increase?

It was announced in the budget the other day that there is a 10 cent a hour increase for minimum wage, there is another 2 lads in the job on minimum wage, they are there before me! There was talk last week about the boss getting a young fella in! He wants to pay him into the hand and let me go! At least that's what I suspect, bit obvious now considering the chat we had today

minikin

RoyalMarine wrote: »

This is the worst advice I've seen on here.

Seriously, all your doing is making the OP feel worse in their current situation.

If you have nothing constructive, move to another thread...

OP, is there a shop steward that could accompany you to the meeting with the boss? Going in alone Can be stressful.

Has there been any chat from other workers about the minimum pay increase?

Nothing constructive? I've just offered the best advice - that the op take responsibility for securing their own income and to hell with this employer, or no... maybe you're right, maybe it's better to get bogged down in a no-win situation with an employer that doesn't even value him at the minimum wage???

Turn this into a win, with a new employer who will value you op!

Oops69

TRust your instincts and look for another job now , and put up with him while you do so , an unfair dismissals case will take at least 9-12/ months to be heard and the compensation is relativley poor in most cases . When you do go you can still take a constructive dismissal case if you have the evidence and you want to take a case and definitely report him to revenue.

minikin

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

That's a mad thing to say...

Tzardine

It is not illegal to record a conversation without the other persons consent. You are not committing a crime, and the Gardai will not be knocking on your door.

It will be useless to you however. It can not be used unless they have been made aware of the fact that the conversation is being recorded and the purpose of the recording.

the_syco

minikin wrote: »

Don't waste your time and energy on any of this — start looking for your next job right now, much easier to get one while you're currently employed.

Agreed. Although the OP could stand and fight, it'd be less stressful to just get another job imo.

RoyalMarine wrote: »

This is the worst advice I've seen on here.

Seriously, all your doing is making the OP feel worse in their current situation.

If you have nothing constructive, move to another thread...

It's a min wage job, and the boss sounds like a twat. If the OP was in a decent paying job I'd say for them to take a stand, but not for minimum wage.

=-=

Finally, a months notice is required if you want a reference. If you never want a reference off the boss, quit the day before you start your new job. I've always given notice myself, but know of people who've walked out the moment they quit as they knew they'd never get a reference.

davo10

Op, all you need to know is this: All dismissals are deemed unfair unless the employer an prove it was justified and correct procedure is followed. If you are employed for over 12 months, you are covered by the Unfair Dismissals Act. He cannot dismiss you just because he wants to pay someone else less. Keep a record of all conversations, record them if you like, it is not illegal despite what anyone else here tells you. If he sacks you, seek advice from citizens advice, they will advise you on how to make a claim for unfair dismissal.

CobraClan

Thanks for all the replys, as you can understand I feel like the rug is being pull from under my feet! I think the best thing I can do now is to do up a new Cv and try and get something better, I was planning on working there for about 2 or 3 years so it would look good on my Cv and then looking for something better with more wages, I'll just have to cut my plan short! It's just that when an employer sees I'm only there a year and a half they'll want to know why I'm moving on so soon! I'm so worried now!

Grandeeod

minikin wrote: »

I'd be more concerned with the op's ability to pay his rent and generally getting on with life rather than social justice warrioring...

If more people stood up for their rights, we wouldn't have threads like this.

Nothing to do with social justice warrioring. But I fear my knowledge may be wasted on you. Jog on, as they say and I will.

appfry

CobraClan wrote: »

How would I be able to prove that is why he dismissed me, does he have the right to let me go because the minimum wage rate has gone up! This employer is really tight, there's no perks in the job what so ever, he doesn't even pay sick days! He closes the factory for 2 weeks in August for the summer holidays, the weeks leading up to it he does be like a pig because he has to give us a handout, what he calls it, for the holidays!

Get him to ask you to go off the books again and record the conversation secretly

Grandeeod

Does the OP realise that they can leave/lose their job and take action while moving on with their life and finding new employment????

Grandeeod

minikin wrote: »

Nothing constructive? I've just offered the best advice - that the op take responsibility for securing their own income and to hell with this employer, or no... maybe you're right, maybe it's better to get bogged down in a no-win situation with an employer that doesn't even value him at the minimum wage???

Turn this into a win, with a new employer who will value you op!

This is exactly why so many people are exploited. Zero accountability. Employee moves on. No questions asked. Wash. Rinse. Repeat.

minikin

Grandeeod wrote: »

If more people stood up for their rights, we wouldn't have threads like this.

Nothing to do with social justice warrioring. But I fear my knowledge may be wasted on you. Jog on, as they say and I will.

Yeah, lets all stand up for our rights comrade!! Will you be offering to pay the op's rent while he's 'standing up for his rights'?

Your knowledge may be wasted?? Condescending much??
I'm a long term employee who was made redundant five years ago, I could have sat around feeling sorry for my bruised rights, I got off my hoop and set up in business myself and now employ others.

This country is going downhill fast with everyone looking to defend their rights and entitlements - what about personal responsibility to ensure you're an indispensable employee... nobody should be happy to be on minimum wage.

Don't let me interrupt your sJwOG! 😀

minikin

Grandeeod wrote: »

This is exactly why so many people are exploited. Zero accountability. Employee moves on. No questions asked. Wash. Rinse. Repeat.

Who is talking about asking no questions???
By all means take a case against the employer... after you've secured other employment!!!
Then you are in a position of power, can afford legal action if flac don't supply it.

the_syco

CobraClan wrote: »

It's just that when an employer sees I'm only there a year and a half they'll want to know why I'm moving on so soon! I'm so worried now!

Capped wage, and/or limited/no promotional chances. No-one wants to stay at the same level for life.

spaceHopper

Write everything down sign and date it. If they sack you go to citizens information for advice sounds like you would have a case, also if he wants to pay you cash in hand you can count on it that he is doing it with others. If he was reported to revenue they would probably look at his tax returns and see how many people he is declaring. Do your own head count, you don't have to give names though. In the mean time 18 months is good record I'd start looking around quietly and see if you can find a better job, good luck.

blindside88

Tzardine wrote: »

It is not illegal to record a conversation without the other persons consent. You are not committing a crime, and the Gardai will not be knocking on your door.

It will be useless to you however. It can not be used unless they have been made aware of the fact that the conversation is being recorded and the purpose of the recording.

That's fair enough, as far as I said I stood to be corrected. It's not illegal just a pointless exercise so

Ericdravancrow

Tzardine wrote: »

It is not illegal to record a conversation without the other persons consent. You are not committing a crime, and the Gardai will not be knocking on your door.

It will be useless to you however. It can not be used unless they have been made aware of the fact that the conversation is being recorded and the purpose of the recording.

It can be used and has been used, it is up to the Judge . If it is relevant to an illegal act, they may grant it as legal.
I read up on a case about this...I think it maybe on the data Commissioner website.

Grandeeod

minikin wrote: »

Yeah, lets all stand up for our rights comrade!! Will you be offering to pay the op's rent while he's 'standing up for his rights'?

Your knowledge may be wasted?? Condescending much??
I'm a long term employee who was made redundant five years ago, I could have sat around feeling sorry for my bruised rights, I got off my hoop and set up in business myself and now employ others.

This country is going downhill fast with everyone looking to defend their rights and entitlements - what about personal responsibility to ensure you're an indispensable employee... nobody should be happy to be on minimum wage.

Don't let me interrupt your sJwOG! 😀

You do understand that you can be dismissed from a job, leave a job and still take action against an employer. Nothing to do with any kind of comradeship at all. Its called employment rights.

Well done for getting off your hoop and all that and employing others. You too will be subjected to the same employment rights as an employer. I have said nothing against the minimum wage. I am merely pointing out that people who feel disgruntled like the OP, in their employment, have rights. I really do not see why you have directed so much anger at me. Its baffling.:rolleyes:

Grandeeod

minikin wrote: »

Who is talking about asking no questions???
By all means take a case against the employer... after you've secured other employment!!!
Then you are in a position of power, can afford legal action if flac don't supply it.

See my original response. Educate yourself while you're at it.:rolleyes:

minikin

Grandeeod wrote: »

See my original response. Educate yourself while you're at it.:rolleyes:

Eh, ok, you're completely right, I know nothing, thanks for helping us all with your wise words.

Op, best of luck.
(In case it's not clear to the hurlers on the ditch)
I am completely on your side, bad employers do as much damage to their competitors as they do to their own employees.

Ericdravancrow

There are rules on apprenticeships, they can't replace an existing full time job, any how if he does go with it, think how stressed he'll be paying the apprentice when they are in college, 3 months a year...
Pity these f**kers can't be named and shamed.

okiss

In this case your boss is trying to be smart. He knows you are due a pay increase because the min wage going up by 10 cent. Also as far as I am aware he does not have to pay you redundancy if he lets you go before your employed 2 years their. I would get legal advice before speaking to your boss.

The reality is that if he put's you on a 3 day week, he needs to give you a letter for social welfare saying why you are now working a 3 day week. He needs to sign a casual docket each week confiming what days you were not in work. If he gives you a hours work a day you can't make a claim for that day. He also has to pay your for bank holidays

If he says he will let your work off the books - I would not do this.
a) you are not insured in work if anything happens to you
b) he can tell you to get lost at any stage
c) If you go to claim after this happens what do you tell social welfare?
d) he is not paying your stamp it will effect your prsi history & future benefits.

If he wants you to work off the books he is not telling revenue the full story of his income. If revenue were made aware of this they would investigate him. He could end up owing them are large sum of money.

Ericdravancrow

Maybe it's time to call revenue, more than likely he has tried this with others...that would quieten him for a bit.

Grandeeod

Grandeeod wrote: »

Does the OP realise that they can leave/lose their job and take action while moving on with their life and finding new employment????

How does the OP pay for rent and food after being dismissed, but before finding their new job?



Anyway OP that sounds like a toxic workplace and I think it's clear enough you need to find something better for yourself.

Grandeeod

Landon Embarrassed Bayonet wrote: »

How does the OP pay for rent and food after being dismissed, but before finding their new job?

And thats the usual scenario/excuse that is offered. Don't worry about it. Leave it to those who can manage on one wage while they fight the war for you. Lots of us doing that too.

And for the last time, taking action after you have been dismissed DOES NOT preclude you from finding a new job.

minikin

I wonder if taking action after a person has been dismissed precludes them from finding a new job.

B.A._Baracus

Hey op,
my two cents is start looking for a job asap. A lot of talk about unfair dismissal - and hey, i am not saying that's bad advice but the writing is on the wall after what your boss said. He's gonna get rid of you or reduce your hours. Assume get rid of you. So start looking for something else.


On a side note, about the whole working off the books... I wouldn't trust him further. Given your scenario and everything you said it sounded like an alternative option to just get rid of you. You know yourself, promise you hours and you can get the dole (win win right?) but when it comes to it he'd keep fobbing you off. There would be no nixer.

MOH

blindside88 wrote: »

That's fair enough, as far as I said I stood to be corrected. It's not illegal just a pointless exercise so

It's not illegal, the Data Protection Act is irrelevant, and it's certainly not pointless

twowheelsonly

1. Absolutely record the conversation and depending on how that conversation goes let it get back to him that you have a recording of it.

2. Absolutely get the hell out of there ASAP and find a new job. (Not easy I know but your current job will be safe as long as he knows that conversation is recorded. )

runawaybishop

blindside88 wrote: »

As far as I know it's illegal under the data protection act but I am open to correction on this. You are effectively storing data on someone without their consent which is illegal under the data protection act

Tzardine wrote: »

It is not illegal to record a conversation without the other persons consent. You are not committing a crime, and the Gardai will not be knocking on your door.

It will be useless to you however. It can not be used unless they have been made aware of the fact that the conversation is being recorded and the purpose of the recording.

Nope. Its not illegal nor do you need to tell anyone. There is no data protection breach.

Nor is it useless, it would be admissible unless it can be shown it was tampered with.

You do not need to tell someone you are recording them.