Boiler Firing but radiators not heating up

loveisdivine

Hi,

Our heating stopped working on Saturday, the radiators just didn't get hot. So I had someone come out on Monday to check it and they said there just wasn't enough oil in the tank. They opened some valve and just air came out. We knew it was low but this is our first house and first time with an oil boiler so we were a bit unsure.

So today we had 300 litres of oil put in the tank but the rads still aren't getting hot.

Is there anything else we need to do?

RJF

You said the boiler was firing in the thread heading???

Was there actually a flame or was it just the motor running?

If there was a flame then it is a heating system problem - probably circulation pump or zone valve problem.

If no flame AND you ran out of oil then the fuel pump may need to be bled.

loveisdivine

You'll have to forgive me, I'm very much a novice with all this. I believe the boiler is firing because it's not "locking out" and the red lock out light/button isn't illuminated. Plus when I turn the heating on, I can hear the boiler "firing up" so to speak.

I've found some good instructions on how to bleed the pump, so my husband is going to try that now.

This is a stupid question, but where would I see the flame? It's an old Firebird 90 outdoors boiler. I've only dealt with indoor gas boilers before where the pilot light is obvious.

timaros

this happens in our new house I switch on the heating the boiler kicks in but the rads don't heat. I figured out the thermostat needed to be turned up a little as the temp in the house was as per thermosat (if that makes sense?) so I upped the thermostat by a few degrees and the rads heated straight away! HTH

loveisdivine

That would be nice and simple but I'm not sure that's the case. Everything was working fine Saturday morning, set the timer for Saturday evening as we were going out and when we got back heating hadn't come on and when I switched it from Timer to just On nothing happened. Been the same since.

The house is freezing cos it's old and insulation isn't great, so there's no way it could be warm enough. Plus thermostat and temp not changed in between Saturday morning and Saturday night.

loveisdivine

Just got a text from the husband to say he bled the pump and lots of air came out. Hopefully that might have helped, will the radiators need to be bled too?

RJF

If the burner is firing you should be able to feel some heat on the flow pipe connection on top of the boiler. Be careful not to burn yourself. Feel for it through a cloth initially.
There is a view port on the front of the boiler but no need to open this. Just feel carefully for any heat.
If there is no heat the OIL PUMP needs to be bled - not the circulating pump.
If there is heat then turn off the system. Then remove the center screw (or open knob) on the circulating pump to check that it turns freely. Turn with screwdriver (or turn knob) to check.
Replace screw and close. Try heating again.

RJF

loveisdivine wrote: »

Just got a text from the husband to say he bled the pump and lots of air came out. Hopefully that might have helped, will the radiators need to be bled too?

If bleeding the oil pump you need to wait until fuel flows freely.

loveisdivine

Ok so he's done the circulating pump and that hasn't fixed it. He let the air out and checked that it was turning freely.

He tried to bleed the oil pump following these instructions, but he says the boiler doesn't have the nut that this diagram shows.
http://thehelpfulengineer.com/index.php/2012/04/bleeding-a-firebird-popular-90-oil-boiler/

He's saying the circulating pump that he bled is quite hot. Should it be?

loveisdivine

Right I've had a look now I'm home. The circulating pump gets quite warm. But the boiler itself doesn't feel warm or hot.

I loosened a not if the pipe that takes the oil into the motor and there is oil flowing.

There are some nuts on the motor itself but I didn't want to touch them as they don't match the diagram I posted earlier.

Not sure what to try next. Already got charged €80 to be told we didn't have oil, don't want to waste another 80 of it's something simple.

RJF

I presume he means it doesn't have the allen key bleeder.
He can try bleeding it with the lower bolt of the two indicated.
It may take a while for the fuel to come.

Under no circumstances should he go near the top one or turn the screw in it. This would put the oil pressure out of adjustment. ( adjustment with gauge and flue gas analyzer would then be required.)

Also tell him to double check that the valve at the tank is open ( in line with pipe for lever or fully anti clockwise for gate valve)

Also check that fire valve is fully open. ( Turned fully CLOCKWISE for fuseable valve or button pressed in for remote valve).

Its ok for the circ pump to be hot.

RJF

He should come back and do it free of charge as he had no work to do on last visit. The 80 euro will cover his expenses.

If not maybe someone here can help you out depending where you are.

RJF

Can you post a pic of the pump.
Is it a Riello burner?

jimf

it sounds to me if im reading your ;post correctly that the boiler motor is running as normal but your boiler is not firing

this could be a photocell issue

runnerholic

Just one of my rads is not working when I have the boiler heating on. I have bled it but still no joy. What could be the problem here and how to solve it would anyone know?

agusta

runnerholic wrote: »

Just one of my rads is not working when I have the boiler heating on. I have bled it but still no joy. What could be the problem here and how to solve it would anyone know?

Turn off all the other rads and see does the rad heat up.

loveisdivine

Here's some pictures

http://m.imgur.com/a/Xpqng

It's a Firebird Popular 90

We had a quote done when we moved in to replace the boiler, all the pipeqprk in the house and other stuff but it was 5k and we don't really have that.

However I've noticed that oil is leaking from the pipe that tamales the oil to the boiler so I might ask this crowd for a quote just to replace the boiler and the leaking pipe. That has to be cheaper.

Wearb

@loveisdevinr. I don't have an accurate handle on EXACTLY what is happening with you system. Perhaps you could explain in detail what is happening from the time you turn on your heating.
Start with how you turn it on? Then talk us through everything that happens. Reference you pics or post new ones if needed.

Most of us here would have no trouble keeping that boiler going for another few years. But your problem might not be the boiler and could be a heating water circulation problem. That is why I need very detailed startup description.

loveisdivine

Just out at the moment but when I get home I think I'll take a video showing switching the heating on and what happens at the boiler, then you can hear the noise and everything too.

RJF

There should be no need to replace the boiler unless it is leaking water.
There should probably be no need to replace the burner.
At this stage from your descriptions it sounds as if the following is happening

You have oil flowing to the burner.
The motor is running but you have no flame.
It does not go to lockout but is running on.
The circulation pump is running (probably).

There are a number of causes for running on like this. As Jimf said it could be the photcell and this is the most likely culprit. It is relatively cheap - less than 20 euro- and easy to replace. However it could also be the nozzle, drive connector, solenoid, white wire from motor (50v) or control box.

However I suggest that you get someone who knows what they are doing to give the burner a good once over. They should have no problem getting it running for a few years yet as Wearb said.
I think the guy you had out has already been paid for most of this but did no work. He should not have accepted payment if he did not get your heating running.

loveisdivine

Well we haven't paid them yet, they just sent us a bill. I think he assumed it was because the oil was too low so he didn't do anything else.

Here's the video https://vimeo.com/187156165?ref=em-share

I'm not sure we'd be confident changing parts ourselves so will probably have to call them out again.

loveisdivine

Oh and we're just outside of Dundalk if anyone fancies popping round and giving us a discount!

Wearb

Is the noise in the video coming from the circulating pump?
Are the pipes either side of the pump hot?
I couldn't catch what you said happens when you press the reset button?
Has the Burner every made a noise since the fault occurred?

On another note. Most of us have a call out fee and rightly so. But for €80 (I think that was mentioned) I would include a call back to bleed it once you got the oil, if that was what caused the problem.
I would give him a call and tell him that you have now gotten oil and would he drop by and put it going now and you will pay him the €80 then.
It needs a good service anyway.

RJF

Have them back out to check the burner but discuss the charges first.
Do not pay until you are satisfied that your problem is resolved.
I presume you have not used them before and they should work with you on this as you would be a potential long term customer.
I know it was just a call out charge but as you were low on oil they really did no work worth talking about and there should be some leeway here.
Negotiate.

loveisdivine

Right, we had the guy back out and he bled the oil pump and said to just leave it on for a bit and they should start heating up.

It's been about an hour, the boiler itself is now good and hot, but the radiators are still cold!! Agh! Should it take this long to get them going again?

loveisdivine

One of the rads is gurgling quite a bit too.

Wearb

loveisdivine wrote: »

Right, we had the guy back out and he bled the oil pump and said to just leave it on for a bit and they should start heating up.

It's been about an hour, the boiler itself is now good and hot, but the radiators are still cold!! Agh! Should it take this long to get them going again?

I wouldn't be in a hurry to get that guy back again. I bet he never even offered (it would have cost you extra) to fix the leak.
He should have stayed to check out the heating. What you now have is a circulation problem and not a boiler problem. Some boilermen don't go near the circulation end, but he should have checked to see how it was running and advised you from there.

Do you have domestic hot water now?
Is the circulation pump running? Put a broom handle or wooden spoon, hurley, etc. against it and press your ear to the other end and you will hear if its running. Mostly I would just put my hand on it, but other way is safer (it can be hot).

loveisdivine

Yes I'm a bit annoyed with the service at this stage.

I've just bled the radiators. A couple had quite a bit of air, rest were ok.

I've turned the heater back on and circulating pump definitely running, it's hot and I can feel it whirring.

Gurgling from radiators now stopped.

It usually takes about 20 minutes to get going anyway so fingers crossed.

loveisdivine

Not looking good. It's been on for half an hour and radiators still cold.

The pipe under the radiator got really hot for a bit but three just went cold again.

Who do I need now, a plumber? Any recommendations in the Dundalk area?

Wearb

Yes you need plumber. maybe some other guys here can suggest someone.

RJF

He should not have left until your rads were heating properly. If this costs a few euro extra - fair enough.
I don't hold with this idea of only getting the burner working. It is a heating system and the boiler/burner is only part of it.
Did he charge extra to bleed the pump?

loveisdivine

After having a different guy out, it turned out that the ball cock thing in the tank that supplies the heating was stuck at the top so the tank wasn't refilling and obviously no water getting to the rads!

Unfortunately after he freed it, it worked for a bit but then got stuck in the down position so water continued to gush out of the over flow pipe.

He's replacing the ball thing today and that should be it Rads we're nice and hot while it was on.