Slow/dangerous driving.

.red.

I live in a rural village and commute down a 80kph road to a main road which is 100kph.
There's an old man living near me in his 70s that drives 40kph everywhere he goes, whether its 50/80/100kph. The main road is into a town that gets busy at commuting times. I've been in a long line of traffic a few times that has ended up being cos of him driving at a snails pace. Today it happened again, he was 3 cars in front of me and the car behind him (stupidly) tried to overtake a few times on a continuous white line. Each time he had to swerve back in as cars were coming. Even tho it would have been the drivers own fault, i could see why he was doing it, its very frustrating, especially after a few miles.
A neighbour was telling me of an evening a few years ago when he came round a bend at about 60ish and almost went into the back of him as he was crawling along.
Is there anything that can be done about drivers like this? I really think its a matter of time before he's involved in an accident, which will surely be the other drivers fault but at the same time, caused by his ludicrous driving.
I'm just having a rant here but still curious if the guards can do anything about it.
Rant over lol.

whiskeyman

.red. wrote: »

A neighbour was telling me of an evening a few years ago when he came round a bend at about 60ish and almost went into the back of him as he was crawling along.

Doing 60 around a blind bend?
What if a child happened to be crossing the road?

You could apply your rant to other slower moving vehicles like tractors, machinery or even cyclists.

There's probably going to be pages on this one! :pac:

b_mac2

Get ready for the- "it's a limit, not a target" bunch, who will be around in a bit to tell you hand in your license to the Gardaí.

ahnowbrowncow

whiskeyman wrote: »

Doing 60 around a blind bend?
What if a child happened to be crossing the road?

You could apply your rant to other slower moving vehicles like tractors, machinery or even cyclists.

There's probably going to be pages on this one! :pac:

If a child got hit when crossing a road on a blind bend I wouldn't be blaming the driver.

gitzy16v

Sure in the test your tested on your progress,I'm sure you'd fail doing 40/50 in a 100.

savagethegoat

it's a good point about a tractor, you wouldn't think twice about it if he were driving one.

there's plenty like him, not much anyone can do about it

whiskeyman

ahnowbrowncow wrote: »

If a child got hit when crossing a road on a blind bend I wouldn't be blaming the driver.

child / animal (especially as countryside) / debris / fallen tree... whatever...
Blame a tree so :rolleyes:


Point is, the neighbour was (almost) going too fast around a blind bend to react to potential danger.
Expect the unexpected.

NiallBoo

If they're going that slowly all the time there's a good chance it has something to do with bad eyesight. You could informally talk to a local guard and they could look into it gently.
Sometimes people cajole doctors etc. to sign off on eyesight forms out of sympathy.

Speaking of sympathy, maybe think about this person's situation before acting. If this person lives alone, doesn't have much family etc. then you could be cutting-off their life-line. Good enough? Maybe not, but give it a thought.

Re other drivers. Well, it's infuriating and realistically you'll always see more bad decisions when you give people a reason to make them...but it's still our choice to overtake dangerously. Will you really lose that much time anyway? Better to just accept you'll be late imo.

.red.

whiskeyman wrote: »

Doing 60 around a blind bend?
What if a child happened to be crossing the road?

You could apply your rant to other slower moving vehicles like tractors, machinery or even cyclists.

There's probably going to be pages on this one! :pac:

To be fair, its a series of wide bends. He came round each one and all of a sudden there was "paddy" almost stationary. I'd think nothing of coming round the same bend doing a similar speed. 60kph is only 35ish mph, on a decent 80 road.

I'm not looking to report him. He does live alone, his wife died last year and they have no family in the area that I know about. I'm friendly enough with him to have a quick chat when i meet him out and about and he's a nice oul fella. I just don't think he should be on the road.
My father in law would be a slow driver but seems like a boy racer compared to this fella.

.red.

savagethegoat wrote: »

it's a good point about a tractor, you wouldn't think twice about it if he were driving one.

there's plenty like him, not much anyone can do about it

Any time I've ever been behind a tractor its pulled in every now and then to allow cars get past. This guy comes to and from the town, driving with his mirror on the white line without ever pulling in. Its about 18/20kms. That's a long tail back any time of the day, especially at 5/530.

whiskeyman

.red. wrote: »

. I just don't think he should be on the road.
.

I come across lots of drivers daily I genuinely think shouldn't be on the road, and all doing a heck of a lot worse and more dangerous than what this man is doing.

Technically, he's not driving illegally so there's really nothing you can do.

I'd be very wary of saying anything to him directly. You may hit his confidence and he may give up driving because of it, and you could risk destroying a key lifeline for him as already mentioned here.

It seems there has been a number of safety campaigns rolled out on 'slow driving', but there's no law / enforcement on it.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/examviral/real-life/its-not-just-speed-that-kills--slow-drivers-can-be-a-danger-on-irish-roads-too-297888.html

Arcade_Tryer

Stay well back. Overtake if and when safe to do so.

Glad I could help.

Senna

It's a bit of the "I'm a good driver, I've never been in an accident", but I've caused 100's of them"

.red.

whiskeyman wrote: »

I come across lots of drivers daily I genuinely think shouldn't be on the road, and all doing a heck of a lot worse and more dangerous than what this man is doing.

Technically, he's not driving illegally so there's really nothing you can do.

I'd be very wary of saying anything to him directly. You may hit his confidence and he may give up driving because of it, and you could risk destroying a key lifeline for him as already mentioned here.

It seems there has been a number of safety campaigns rolled out on 'slow driving', but there's no law / enforcement on it.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/examviral/real-life/its-not-just-speed-that-kills--slow-drivers-can-be-a-danger-on-irish-roads-too-297888.html

That's a good article, it mentions that slow drivers should pull in to let others get by, this doesn't happen. I've (thankfully)passed him a lot more going the opposite way and always chuckle at the tail back. Its never so funny when I'm in the tailback tho.
It also mentions giving the lights a flash to let them know they are driving too slow. I honestly don't think he gives a fiddlers. I'm living here 10 years and he's always driven like that lol.
My main worry would be an ambulance being 100 cars back from him on roads that don't allow for overtaking.

A few years ago a family charity cycle was passing thru the village and the joke at the time was that they might get stuck behind "paddy".


Like I said, I'm not looking to do anything about it or even mention it to him. The car is his lifeline and it would kill him if it was taken away. The local shop is a bread and milk sort, not much else.

Senna

whiskeyman wrote: »

Doing 60 around a blind bend?

Let me guess, you're from Dublin?

frozenfrozen

The bigger issue for me with slow cars, tractors, etc. is the people behind them who follow too closely and never overtake, and you end up with 15 cars behind a slow car, and everyone thinks you're being a dangerous / aggressive driver for overtaking them one by one to get to the front, to eventually overtake the person 'holding everyone up', in my opinion it's the first person following who doesn't overtake them, and doesn't leave a gap for them to be overtaken, who is the one holding everyone up.


However these drivers should notice the line of people behind them and pull in to allow them to pass. Just out of respect for everyone else. It's ok if you're in no hurry and want to do half the speed limit, but it's not right to hold up so many others, and create a dangerous situation with people getting impatient and dangerously overtaking several cars at once.

Special Circumstances

Nailed it frozenfrozen.


If 'paddy' drives an oul jetta then I've eventually met him near charleville after being stuck in a convoy since mallow!!

It's mainly the people who won't "piss or get off the pot" that I blame too though.

Amanda.ie

.red. wrote: »

I live in a rural village and commute down a 80kph road to a main road which is 100kph.
There's an old man living near me in his 70s that drives 40kph everywhere he goes, whether its 50/80/100kph. The main road is into a town that gets busy at commuting times. I've been in a long line of traffic a few times that has ended up being cos of him driving at a snails pace. Today it happened again, he was 3 cars in front of me and the car behind him (stupidly) tried to overtake a few times on a continuous white line. Each time he had to swerve back in as cars were coming. Even tho it would have been the drivers own fault, i could see why he was doing it, its very frustrating, especially after a few miles.
A neighbour was telling me of an evening a few years ago when he came round a bend at about 60ish and almost went into the back of him as he was crawling along.
Is there anything that can be done about drivers like this? I really think its a matter of time before he's involved in an accident, which will surely be the other drivers fault but at the same time, caused by his ludicrous driving.
I'm just having a rant here but still curious if the guards can do anything about it.
Rant over lol.

How long is this commute to the main rd? The way you are talking it seems like it's 20km,
You have to be patient with L drivers and older drivers. This is probably the only bit of independence he has left, leave him alone OP. You will be old yourself some day soon.

Estrellita

Senna wrote: »

Let me guess, you're from Dublin?

Those feckin' Dubs seem to have this annoying habit of always trying to anticipate potential dangers around corners and bends when the rest of us could be at home already eating our dinners! :mad:

.red.

Amanda.ie wrote: »

How long is this commute to the main rd? The way you are talking it seems like it's 20km,
You have to be patient with L drivers and older drivers. This is probably the only bit of independence he has left, leave him alone OP. You will be old yourself some day soon.

Its about 2kms I'd say,
The point I was making is, there's nothing worse than heading off and meeting him on that stretch, knowing he'd need about a 500m gap in cars to pull onto the main road, then being stuck behind him doing much less than half the speed limit for the next 17/18kms. There's only 2/3 stretches where its safe to overtake and that's only if no cars are coming on the other side. Plenty of spaces for him to pull over tho. Its a busy road so chances are your not gonna overtake him.

Amanda.ie

.red. wrote: »

Its about 2kms I'd say,
The point I was making is, there's nothing worse than heading off and meeting him on that stretch, knowing he'd need about a 500m gap in cars to pull onto the main road, then being stuck behind him doing much less than half the speed limit for the next 17/18kms. There's only 2/3 stretches where its safe to overtake and that's only if no cars are coming on the other side. Plenty of spaces for him to pull over tho. Its a busy road so chances are your not gonna overtake him.

Seriously you are complaining about a slow driver driving for 2KM ?
If the main road is very busy it's difficult for everyone to get out.

Go ahead and speak to your local guard, he will tell you to get a life and leave this man alone.
2KM FFS.

Donutz

I also live in a small village and there is a driver exactly the same as you are describing that crawls at a snails pace. 30kph along a road that has 50, 60, and 80kph limits in parts.

Its about 10km to the main roads of the city so if I get stuck behind him it probably adds 10 minutes to my journey if I don't get an opportunity to safely overtake him. Its 10 minutes that I am happy to add to my journey.

There are also some crazy drivers in my village that speed excessivly, overtake dangerously, and have generally disregard for road users safety.

Which of the above drivers would you rather share the road with?

Jesus.

.red. wrote: »

I'm not looking to report him. He does live alone, his wife died last year and they have no family in the area that I know about. I'm friendly enough with him to have a quick chat when i meet him out and about and he's a nice oul fella. I just don't think he should be on the road.

I don't think you should be worrying about this man. Just overtake him when you get the chance and forget about it.

ShadowHearth

frozenfrozen wrote: »

The bigger issue for me with slow cars, tractors, etc. is the people behind them who follow too closely and never overtake, and you end up with 15 cars behind a slow car, and everyone thinks you're being a dangerous / aggressive driver for overtaking them one by one to get to the front, to eventually overtake the person 'holding everyone up', in my opinion it's the first person following who doesn't overtake them, and doesn't leave a gap for them to be overtaken, who is the one holding everyone up.


However these drivers should notice the line of people behind them and pull in to allow them to pass. Just out of respect for everyone else. It's ok if you're in no hurry and want to do half the speed limit, but it's not right to hold up so many others, and create a dangerous situation with people getting impatient and dangerously overtaking several cars at once.

Oh god yes.

I live in limerick now, but still work in North Cork. So I drive that road 4-6 days per week ( 7 days this week :pac: ) and the amount of times I get stuck behind a train of cars is just insane. As you said, in most cases ots the very first 2 cars that stuck behind slow car that annoy me as much as the actual slow driver. So many times I actually overtook 5++ cars on this road as everyone just sit in the train and no one's does anything.

In my opinion slow driving and holding up traffic should be penalised same way speeding is. Ironically enough slow driver creates way more dangerous situation then that one prick "lifting it".

Comhrá

ShadowHearth wrote: »

Oh god yes.

I live in limerick now, but still work in North Cork. So I drive that road 4-6 days per week ( 7 days this week :pac: ) and the amount of times I get stuck behind a train of cars is just insane. As you said, in most cases ots the very first 2 cars that stuck behind slow car that annoy me as much as the actual slow driver. So many times I actually overtook 5++ cars on this road as everyone just sit in the train and no one's does anything.

In my opinion slow driving and holding up traffic should be penalised same way speeding is. Ironically enough slow driver creates way more dangerous situation then that one prick "lifting it".

Sometimes it's the driver right behind the 'offending' slow vehicle who has the best view of whether or not it's safe to try overtaking. I'd much prefer to sit a while behind a slightly hesitant driver than someone who's gung-ho waiting to overtake the second they think it's safe to have a go.

If you're four or five cars behind it's often very hard to see how safe or otherwise it is for the driver behind the slow-coach to have a go or hang back.

When I was younger I used to seethe when this happened......now I just relax and have some patience. Let someone else risk their neck.

Jesus.

Amanda.ie wrote: »

Seriously you are complaining about a slow driver driving for 2KM ? If the main road is very busy it's difficult for everyone to get out. Go ahead and speak to your local guard, he will tell you to get a life and leave this man alone. 2KM FFS.

Well said that woman

Steve

In some countries (not here) the law states that if you have x number of vehicles queued behind you then you *must* pull in and let them pass.

I'd be all for that.

coolbeans

.red. wrote: »

Amanda.ie wrote: »

How long is this commute to the main rd? The way you are talking it seems like it's 20km,
You have to be patient with L drivers and older drivers. This is probably the only bit of independence he has left, leave him alone OP. You will be old yourself some day soon.

Its about 2kms I'd say,
The point I was making is, there's nothing worse than heading off and meeting him on that stretch, knowing he'd need about a 500m gap in cars to pull onto the main road, then being stuck behind him doing much less than half the speed limit for the next 17/18kms. There's only 2/3 stretches where its safe to overtake and that's only if no cars are coming on the other side. Plenty of spaces for him to pull over tho. Its a busy road so chances are your not gonna overtake him.

You've just got to wait and overtake when safe. I know your frustration believe me as I like to make progress but ultimately the problem is you and your lack of patience.

Options here are report him with possibility of losing his mobility or just build a bridge and get over it. I'm not one to defend crap driving but you just gotta remember this is an imperfect world. He doesn't seem to be an unsafe driver, that's caused by drivers who are too inpatient, so I'd just leave him be if I were thee.

Vic_08

All this "what if they lose their mobility" is complete crap.

If the man is not capable of driving to a reasonable standard he should not be in charge of a motor vehicle.

It'll all be grand until he goes for a trip and ends up on the overtaking lane of a dual carriageway going the wrong way. I.m sure the family of the guy killed by one of these doddery aul wans in Cork a few years ago wishes someone had the courage to take the keys off her before she wiped an innocent person out.

Nobody has the right to drive, if it was some reckless young lad incapable of driving properly you'd all be for him being banned but because it is a sympathetic old fella the rules should be let slide. Typical Irish BS.

bear1

Subscribed.

Sam Kade

ahnowbrowncow wrote: »

If a child got hit when crossing a road on a blind bend I wouldn't be blaming the driver.

Really, there was a case recently where a child ran across a straight stretch of road and got hit with the wing mirror and the driver was driving at the speed limit, it ended up being the drivers fault.

Rubberchikken

for the sake of the few minutes it takes to drive behind this person, could other drivers noit show some cop on and a bit of sense?
it isn't like this elderly man is going to be driving the length of the country holding you (op) and others upo in your busy lives.

would you prefer him off the road, maybe the last bit of independence he has, taken from him.

personally, i'd prefer him on the road ahead of me, than the morons behind who think it's their god given right to break speed limits, overtake wherever, and generally act like the arrogant a**holes they are (imho).

Sam Kade

Special Circumstances wrote: »

Nailed it frozenfrozen.


If 'paddy' drives an oul jetta then I've eventually met him near charleville after being stuck in a convoy since mallow!!

It's mainly the people who won't "piss or get off the pot" that I blame too though.

There's lots more fools around than Paddy in his Jetta. I was coming out of mallow last week when an N driver stopped on the hard shoulder decided it was a good idea to join traffic doing 100kph from a standstill :mad:

Peregrinus

ahnowbrowncow wrote: »

If a child got hit when crossing a road on a blind bend I wouldn't be blaming the driver.

You should be. The driver shouldn't drive at such a speed that he can't stop within the limit of his vision.

Sam Kade

ShadowHearth wrote: »

Oh god yes.

I live in limerick now, but still work in North Cork. So I drive that road 4-6 days per week ( 7 days this week :pac: ) and the amount of times I get stuck behind a train of cars is just insane. As you said, in most cases ots the very first 2 cars that stuck behind slow car that annoy me as much as the actual slow driver. So many times I actually overtook 5++ cars on this road as everyone just sit in the train and no one's does anything.

In my opinion slow driving and holding up traffic should be penalised same way speeding is. Ironically enough slow driver creates way more dangerous situation then that one prick "lifting it".

If you have a head on collision overtaking 5++ cars at once you can always blame the 2 cars behind the slow driver, if you survive that is

Tombo2001

Funny thing is....

I've had penalty points for driving 61km in a 50km zone road recently. This is a four lane road that is not in a residential area. The van was positioned just beyond the point where the limit changes from 60k to 50k, and I can simply say I was going at the speed of the traffic I was in. Presumably we all got points.

No complaints about the points. They are the rules. However I would absolutely not feel this was dangerous driving.

Last week, I was driving a long the motorway, car in front of me is going at 60k and hour. I have to slow down to 60k an hour. I couldn't get around him because of cars in the lane on my right.

I have the hazards on. I can see cars behind me decelerating really sharply as they approach behind me.

It was a really dangerous situation as far as I was concerned. I was nervous.

But the driver in question was not breaking any laws, he was driving within the rules of the road.

Mc Love

frozenfrozen wrote: »

The bigger issue for me with slow cars, tractors, etc. is the people behind them who follow too closely and never overtake, and you end up with 15 cars behind a slow car, and everyone thinks you're being a dangerous / aggressive driver for overtaking them one by one to get to the front, to eventually overtake the person 'holding everyone up', in my opinion it's the first person following who doesn't overtake them, and doesn't leave a gap for them to be overtaken, who is the one holding everyone up.


However these drivers should notice the line of people behind them and pull in to allow them to pass. Just out of respect for everyone else. It's ok if you're in no hurry and want to do half the speed limit, but it's not right to hold up so many others, and create a dangerous situation with people getting impatient and dangerously overtaking several cars at once.

This very thing happened to me recently, slow moving truck/van, car behind refusing to overtake despite there being ample space to do so, if they had over taken, every other car including me 5th in the queue could overtake before being met with oncoming traffic, however they didnt and we were stuck behind it for a good half hour before the truck/van took a turn off.

Peregrinus

Depending on the circumstances, someone who is driving too slowly could perhaps be charged with driving without reasonable consideration for other road users. It's a slightly picky offence to prosecute, since you have to prove there were other users for whom the defendant should have had consideration; this usually involves calling other road users as witnesses to say that, yes, they were inconvenienced by the defendant driving unreasonably slowly, or straddling two lanes, or deliberately swerving into puddles to splash them, or whatever conduct is the basis for the charge. So it's not prosecuted that often. It's not an offence which can be the subject of a fixed charge notice.

savagethegoat

Peregrinus wrote: »

Depending on the circumstances, someone who is driving too slowly could perhaps be charged with driving without reasonable consideration for other road users. It's a slightly picky offence to prosecute, since you have to prove there were other users for whom the defendant should have had consideration; this usually involves calling other road users as witnesses to say that, yes, they were inconvenienced by the defendant driving unreasonably slowly, or straddling two lanes, or deliberately swerving into puddles to splash them, or whatever conduct is the basis for the charge. So it's not prosecuted that often. It's not an offence which can be the subject of a fixed charge notice.

I would have thought the Gard's word would be enough.

It should be easy enough to pass someone doing 40 km/h, perhaps the guy behind him who won't overtake is the one who should be prosecuted.

inforfun

Steve wrote: »

In some countries (not here) the law states that if you have x number of vehicles queued behind you then you *must* pull in and let them pass.

I'd be all for that.

That requires looking in mirrors.
Most of these snails only stare at the road 5 meters in front of them and are oblivious to everything else in the world.

Truckermal

There is a driver like this living in Tarmonbarry outside Longford town but he is at the same carry on!

Donutz

ShadowHearth wrote:

As you said, in most cases ots the very first 2 cars that stuck behind slow car that annoy me as much as the actual slow driver. So many times I actually overtook 5++ cars on this road as everyone just sit in the train and no one's does anything.

Hope I never have the pleasure of meeting you on the road.

bear1

Donutz wrote: »

Hope I never have the pleasure of meeting you on the road.

Tbh the poster has a point. Before the motorway to Galway was built there is a section before the first dual carrange way coming from the Dublin side.
It's wide and very straight.
The amount of times people would just sit behind some slow feck and end up causing traffic.
If safe I would also overtake them.

savagethegoat

so would I. There is nothing unsafe about overtaking as long as it's safe to do so (obviously)

Jesus.

Vic_08 wrote: »

All this "what if they lose their mobility" is complete crap.If the man is not capable of driving to a reasonable standard he should not be in charge of a motor vehicle.It'll all be grand until he goes for a trip and ends up on the overtaking lane of a dual carriageway going the wrong way. I.m sure the family of the guy killed by one of these doddery aul wans in Cork a few years ago wishes someone had the courage to take the keys off her before she wiped an innocent person out.Nobody has the right to drive, if it was some reckless young lad incapable of driving properly you'd all be for him being banned but because it is a sympathetic old fella the rules should be let slide. Typical Irish BS.

I'll tell you what, I'd take aul Paddy in his beat up Jetta any day than the aggressive nutters I have regularly up my ass, cutting out in front of people and hooning around like they're late for a life saving operation.

inforfun

Well, why not get both categories of the road, maybe?

This "or/or" thing that seems in fashion in the last few years makes no sense at all.
If gramps doesnt dare to go over 40 on a 100 km/h he should stay home and stare out of the windows and the same goes for a 19 year old in a 1.0l p.o.s who thinks he is Ken Block

NiallBoo

Tombo2001 wrote: »

I've had penalty points for driving 61km in a 50km zone road recently...However I would absolutely not feel this was dangerous driving..

I don't think we appreciate how big a difference this is because the number difference seems small.
But if you had hit something, it would have been with almost 50% more force than if you were at the limit.

Completely agree with you about slow-driving on the motorway, such big differences in speed are fatal.
But I suppose the argument they're would be that we should be paying attention to what's happening well ahead of us and be able to adapt in time.

Riskymove

Sam Kade wrote: »

Really, there was a case recently where a child ran across a straight stretch of road and got hit with the wing mirror and the driver was driving at the speed limit, it ended up being the drivers fault.

it was a straight stretch....hence no excuse for the driver not avoiding hitting the child

Jesus.

inforfun wrote: »

Well, why not get both categories of the road, maybe?This "or/or" thing that seems in fashion in the last few years makes no sense at all. If gramps doesnt dare to go over 40 on a 100 km/h he should stay home and stare out of the windows and the same goes for a 19 year old in a 1.0l p.o.s who thinks he is Ken Block

I don't think its possible. In both scenarios they're not necessarily breaking the law and if they are its difficult to prove.

A lot of the clowns who drive aggressively aren't even kids. Plenty of them in their 30's, 40's, 50's etc. Near me there's a B road that's 50mph limit. Its very windy so it'd be nearly impossible to break that limit anyway yet when you're at 50 there's still morons trying to sit in your back seat. What do you do? I've found when you speed up and start legging it yourself they still stay on your ass - no matter how fast you go.

NiallBoo

Jesus. wrote: »

What do you do? I've found when you speed up and start legging it yourself they still stay on your ass - no matter how fast you go.

You keep driving exactly as you would normally, whatever is right for the road and conditions.

Maybe indicate or gently touch the brakes a little earlier.

Donutz

bear1 wrote:

Tbh the poster has a point. Before the motorway to Galway was built there is a section before the first dual carrange way coming from the Dublin side. It's wide and very straight. The amount of times people would just sit behind some slow feck and end up causing traffic. If safe I would also overtake them.

I understand the point that the poster was trying to make. It can be very frustrating stuck behind a line of slow moving traffic but overtaking 5++ cars regularly is just waiting for an accident to happen.

Maybe I misunderstood, and maybe its a very wide stretch of road where oncoming traffic can pull in and give extra room while somebody overtakes, but from my own personal experience having travelled extensively throughout Munster, wide stretches of road are few and far between.