Dublin Marathon Elite Field & National Title 2016.

tang1

Anybody hear of who is running in the Elite field this year? Also who's gunning for the National title, think I read somewhere Paul Pollock isn't running, what about our other Olympians The Claw & Kevin Seaward? Am sure Sean Hehir will be running as will Sergiu? Who else is in the mix for the National crown?

Any of our female Olympians going for the National title?

Duanington

tang1 wrote: »

Anybody hear of who is running in the Elite field this year? Also who's gunning for the National title, think I read somewhere Paul Pollock isn't running, what about our other Olympians The Claw & Kevin Seaward? Am sure Sean Hehir will be running as will Sergiu? Who else is in the mix for the National crown?

Any of our female Olympians going for the National title?

Pretty sure The Claw isn't doing it ...don't know about the others though

El Caballo

See the prize money and time bonuses are creeping back up towards pre-2013 levels.

Duanington

Any word on this yet?

wgtomblin

On the men's side, club Runner entries included Hehir, Ciobanu, Kirwan, O'Hanlon...
None of the Olympians were listed but I suppose there could be late additions.

hillsiderunner

Not an Olympian (yet) but apparently Laura Graham from Northern Ireland is doing DCM this year. Probably people have heard of her.... but she's around 30 with 4 small kids, took up running a couple of years ago and is winning races all over NI.

I can't wait to see how she does, she was 3rd in DCM2015, and won this year's Belfast marathon.

RacoonQueen

Tracker is already live so you can search names to see who is registered. Won't give you a full list of elites but you can search familiar names. http://track.rtrt.me/e/TDL-DUBLINM-2016

El Caballo

Looks like some of the big dogs are back. I'll do a write up of the elite field later but there's a 2.07 man in the form of Dereje Debele Tulu running.

Edit: former 2.07 man, a little research says he hasn't run close to that in a while with his most recent effort being 2.13 and 2.10 before that

KielyUnusual

http://www.athleticsireland.ie/news/hehir-and-curley-set-for-battle-to-defend-national-crowns-in-dublin

David McCarthy stepping up to the marathon. I'm intrigued.

What time do you think he might run?

This is just plucked out of the air as I've no idea to his commitment to it but a 3.55 miler with half decent marathon preparation should be capable of going sub 2.20. I'll give him a 2.18.

tang1

KielyUnusual wrote: »

http://www.athleticsireland.ie/news/hehir-and-curley-set-for-battle-to-defend-national-crowns-in-dublin

David McCarthy stepping up to the marathon. I'm intrigued.

What time do you think he might run?

National title on his debut?!

El Caballo

Apoligies about not getting back on the other runners above, hit a lazy patch when it came down to it. Most of the men seem to be 2:13 guys and a few who have been faster(2.07 guy in Tulu and 2.09 guy Dereje Yadette Woldegiyorgis) in the past but have dropped back in form over the last few years to that level.

On the womens side, the spread is a bit wider with 2.30-2.40+ runners and a debutant in Viola Jelagat (not the 1500 runner) who has a 1.09 half best. 2011 winner Helalia Johannes(2.26 best but has run around 1.11-1.13 in the half lately) is also back this year. The two top Ethiopians seem to be Ehite Bizuayehu Gebireyes who has a 2.30 pb along with Meseret Biratu (2.34 best).

Some of the usual suspects on the men's side are Asefa Bekele, Freddy Keron, Lezan Kimutai, Gideon Kipsang Kimosop who have all run the DCM over the last few years.

*disclaimer incase Ghost in Cratloe makes his annual Halloween visit to criticise my research skills:pac: I may have missed a few but this is the best I could do with what I had to go on so they're might be a few suprise packages yet.

KielyUnusual wrote: »

http://www.athleticsireland.ie/news/hehir-and-curley-set-for-battle-to-defend-national-crowns-in-dublin

David McCarthy stepping up to the marathon. I'm intrigued.

What time do you think he might run?

This is just plucked out of the air as I've no idea to his commitment to it but a 3.55 miler with half decent marathon preparation should be capable of going sub 2.20. I'll give him a 2.18.

Interesting, usually wouldn't give a speed type like him much of a chance in the marathon but that half/10k double was fairly impressive last year and he's been racing seriously well on the roads this year. Haven't a clue how he'll get on but should be interesting to see.

RacoonQueen

Jesus, who puts up the articles on AI - that piece is impossible to read. Formatting is really not that difficult lads.

El Caballo

RacoonQueen wrote: »

Jesus, who puts up the articles on AI - that piece is impossible to read. Formatting is really not that difficult lads.

Bollix, just read the article to see, wasted a good 3 hours researching all that when...

Ceepo

KielyUnusual wrote: »

http://www.athleticsireland.ie/news/hehir-and-curley-set-for-battle-to-defend-national-crowns-in-dublin

David McCarthy stepping up to the marathon. I'm intrigued.

What time do you think he might run?

This is just plucked out of the air as I've no idea to his commitment to it but a 3.55 miler with half decent marathon preparation should be capable of going sub 2.20. I'll give him a 2.18.

David is not running..
I think he got a brain wave surge a few weeks back and said he would do it, but there is no chance he will.

KielyUnusual

Ceepo wrote: »

David is not running..
I think he got a brain wave surge a few weeks back and said he would do it, but there is no chance he will.

That's weird because that was my initial thought when I read it. He signed up on a whim but there's no chance he'll do it. Pity, because its always interesting how an athlete will transition to a completely different event.

tang1

Ceepo wrote: »

David is not running..
I think he got a brain wave surge a few weeks back and said he would do it, but there is no chance he will.

He'd hardly sell his elite entry on the cheap!!!

Chivito550

A horde of East African runners just walked past me around Stephen's Green. They look like they mean business!

average_runner

Chivito550 wrote: »

A horde of East African runners just walked past me around Stephen's Green. They look like they mean business!

And you were sprinting

youngrun

hillsiderunner wrote: »

Not an Olympian (yet) but apparently Laura Graham from Northern Ireland is doing DCM this year. Probably people have heard of her.... but she's around 30 with 4 small kids, took up running a couple of years ago and is winning races all over NI.

I can't wait to see how she does, she was 3rd in DCM2015, and won this year's Belfast marathon.

She could well win it
Sergio for the mens

dublin runner

Excuse my ignorance but when did the standard in the women's race get so poor? Has it always been this way? At least on the men's side there's going to be a decent time and a good race hopefully. Are we looking at another 2.49ish winning time? That to me is very weak. You can only beat the runners that turn up so it's no reflection on the person that actually wins the race.

youngrun

dublin runner wrote: »

Excuse my ignorance but when did the standard in the women's race get so poor? Has it always been this way? At least on the men's side there's going to be a decent time and a good race hopefully. Are we looking at another 2.49ish winning time? That to me is very weak. You can only beat the runners that turn up so it's no reflection on the person that actually wins the race.

Bit of an olympic hangover for our top marathon runners I expect? Male and.female ,
We had neasa coll from Galway now Canada based run 241 last week theres another one in the mix,
Few going in frankfurt as well I.hear

dublin runner

That does make sense but no offence, 2.49 shouldn't win a National Title. Again, far play to the winner, it's a massively proud day for them. How have standards slipped to that degree though? Having near 20,000 competing is obviously fantastic to see but the manner in which the sharper end has been allowed slip is just not good enough. Not enough incentive? Not enough coordinated efforts being made to improve standards? I am at a loss.

RayCun

dublin runner wrote: »

That does make sense but no offence, 2.49 shouldn't win a National Title. Again, far play to the winner, it's a massively proud day for them. How have standards slipped to that degree though? Having near 20,000 competing is obviously fantastic to see but the manner in which the sharper end has been allowed slip is just not good enough. Not enough incentive? Not enough coordinated efforts being made to improve standards? I am at a loss.

has the standard at the top actually disimproved? Was there ever a time when more than ~10 women ran under 3 hours? When third was faster than 2.4x?

(Last year, as well as the women chasing a qualifying time abroad there were a couple who could have run about 2.45 but blew up badly.)

Myles Splitz

RayCun wrote: »

Was there ever a time when more than ~10 women ran under 3 hours?

Funnily enough we did actually have 10 under 3 back in 2013 IIRC.

I do think perspective is needed certainly when you rule out the following

- 3 Olympic Athletes
- Those who vehemently chased standard up till the window closing
- The 2 top 10 Berlin finishers
- Those on the cusp of world Qualifcation standards opting for flatter courses like Frankfurt
- Those who didn't make the start line due to injury

Would say we are arguably stronger the last couple of years depth wise to be able to deal with all those factors and still have a bit of depth. A couple of years ago you would have had near enough same standard in winner without the other factors coming into play

RayCun

Myles Splitz wrote: »

Funnily enough we did actually have 10 under 3 back in 2013 IIRC.

when claralara ran she was 6th Irish woman with 2.57.35, and 7th was ten minutes behind
There were 12 in 2011.

dublin runner

Myles Splitz wrote:

Would say we are arguably stronger the last couple of years depth wise to be able to deal with all those factors and still have a bit of depth. A couple of years ago you would have had near enough same standard in winner without the other factors coming into play

So, it has always been bad so this year is no different?! I just cannot accept the depth and quality for a National Title, in a race of near on 20,000 people. Something is wrong when we now expect those times. Maybe I am expecting too much but I believe it should be higher up on the elite runners priority list. There is a definite disconnect.

Myles Splitz

RayCun wrote: »

when claralara ran she was 6th Irish woman with 2.57.35, and 7th was ten minutes behind
There were 12 in 2011.

Whoops correct you are. though she was a bit further back (remember at 21 mile she was sitting in 9th) apologies

RayCun

Myles Splitz wrote: »

Whoops correct you are. though she was a bit further back (remember at 21 mile she was sitting in 9th) apologies

maybe 9th overall woman? AAI results have her 6th in the national champs

Myles Splitz

dublin runner wrote: »

I believe it should be higher up on the elite runners priority list

Don't think the ones chasing qualification are the issue as numbers of 2.35- low 2.40 women marathon runners has grown exponentially over the last few years. Most of those are legitimately chasing standards or running championships and International Championship competitions will always and should always trump nationals.

The sport has developed into a very pear shaped structure between the mass participation and elite end that the club runners can very much blend into the background to an extent and I think this is where the depth for Championships becomes apparent moreso than a lack of top end talent.

youngrun

Myles Splitz wrote: »

Don't think the ones chasing qualification are the issue as numbers of 2.35- low 2.40 women marathon runners has grown exponentially over the last few years. Most of those are legitimately chasing standards or running championships and International Championship competitions will always and should always trump nationals.

The sport has developed into a very pear shaped structure between the mass participation and elite end that the club runners can very much blend into the background to an extent and I think this is where the depth for Championships becomes apparent moreso than a lack of top end talent.[/QUOT

Olympic hangover and girls and lads going for Euro cross takes out the top end to a good degree

Interesting article on cork running blog which i reckon has a lot of merit ( I hope the courses were ok!!) . The age profile is wrong in distance running here. We lose all our athletes just below top end for years until mid thirties when its too late to really hit the good times sub 2.20/ sub 2.40 men/women
Well either lose them or they just go to other sports.
I reckon 90-95 % of runners are gone by 18 unless they are top end track runners, and by 20 there are only 1-2% running who were at age 12/13
Has to have a knock on on times

Also people are definitely not doing the mileage as before , again maybe its because people are older, family oriented or work and not young, free etc as they would be in 20s

Extract here
https://corkrunning.blogspot.ie/search?updated-max=2016-10-18T15:46:00%2B01:00&max-results=15
'Follow up to the 1984 Cork City Marathon post & Course measurement back in the 1980's
Last week, I had a guest post up by John Walshe on the 1984 Cork City Marathon. Included in the post were the results for the marathon itself which showed just how fast the times were back then.

Some of the questions raised were why the times were so fast and how were the courses measured back then?

As for the times, the running boom of the early to mid 80's was largely due to young adult men running. i.e. men in their mid 20's to early 30's. That's in contrast to the latest running boom which is largely a mix of men and women in their early 30's to mid 40's. As such, it's probably no great surprise that times are slower now.

As for course measurements, John Walshe has written a short follow up article and you can see it below...'

RayCun

youngrun wrote: »

The age profile is wrong in distance running here. We lose all our athletes just below top end for years until mid thirties when its too late to really hit the good times sub 2.20/ sub 2.40 men/women
Well either lose them or they just go to other sports.
I reckon 90-95 % of runners are gone by 18 unless they are top end track runners, and by 20 there are only 1-2% running who were at age 12/13
Has to have a knock on on times

are we losing a higher % of runners than we used to?

I suspect what is happening is that more people are taking up running in their 30s/40s, who haven't run before. The age profile is changing not because some people (juniors, young seniors) are leaving, but because so many masters are joining.

RayCun

RayCun wrote: »

are we losing a higher % of runners than we used to?

Might also be related to greater geographic mobility now compared to 30 years ago? If you stayed in the same town as a kid and a young adult, you're more likely to keep the same social circle and same activities. If you move - for college, for work, for affordable housing - connections are broken, maybe old activities are dropped?

Sacksian

Myles Splitz wrote: »

Funnily enough we did actually have 10 under 3 back in 2013 IIRC.

I do think perspective is needed certainly when you rule out the following

- 3 Olympic Athletes
- Those who vehemently chased standard up till the window closing
- The 2 top 10 Berlin finishers
- Those on the cusp of world Qualifcation standards opting for flatter courses like Frankfurt
- Those who didn't make the start line due to injury

Also, to be fair, despite some of the great performances from Irish men in the last 18 months or so, most of the good performances from Irish men happened somewhere other than Dublin. According to the results on AI, 2:30:47 won a bronze in the senior men's championships last year and in 2014, there were only 5 men under 2:30 in the national senior men's champs.

Also, at this point, given the rise in numbers, surely there's even less need to spend money on invited athletes - I thought there was an added bit of excitement in 2013 when there were no invited international athletes (and there were 12 men under 2:30 in the senior men's champs too!).

dublin runner

Has the lowering of International qualifying times meant some very good club runners migrating to races to achieve said qualifying times? If so, this would also help to explain the poor depth.

Do times, not all out racing, now mean more than for example, the National Marathon Championship?

Maybe just standards are declining of course!

RayCun

It would be interesting, if the numbers were available, to see how many women ran under 3 and how many men under 2.30 in every year since the first Dublin marathon. But not just how many ran those times in Dublin, in any marathon anywhere that year.

dublin runner

RayCun wrote:

It would be interesting, if the numbers were available, to see how many women ran under 3 and how many men under 2.30 in every year since the first Dublin marathon. But not just how many ran those times in Dublin, in any marathon anywhere that year.

Go on, do it!!

jamule

I think depth is way down on the mid eighties. There were alot more 20-35 yr olds running back then. That age group just doesnt exist anymore.

RayCun

jamule wrote: »

I think depth is way down on the mid eighties. There were alot more 20-35 yr olds running back then. That age group just doesnt exist anymore.

Were there actually more or was that age group a higher proportion of runners? Do you have stats?

dna_leri

RayCun wrote: »

It would be interesting, if the numbers were available, to see how many women ran under 3 and how many men under 2.30 in every year since the first Dublin marathon. But not just how many ran those times in Dublin, in any marathon anywhere that year.

Some of the last few years are here if anyone has time:
http://www.athleticsireland.ie/competition/statistics

19 Irish women under 3:00 in 2015 in all marathons
7 in 2010

More on http://www.tilastopaja.org/

jamule

RayCun wrote: »

Were there actually more or was that age group a higher proportion of runners? Do you have stats?

No just a memory that couldn't be trusted to know if its raining out 5 mins after arriving home! I' d love to see some stats especially ghe agd profile back then

ultrapercy

dublin runner wrote: »

Has the lowering of International qualifying times meant some very good club runners migrating to races to achieve said qualifying times? If so, this would also help to explain the poor depth.

Do times, not all out racing, now mean more than for example, the National Marathon Championship?

Maybe just standards are declining of course!

You can figure this out, I know you can. Your far from stupid.

dublin runner

ultrapercy wrote:

You can figure this out, I know you can. Your far from stupid.

Some would choose to disagree!

Perhaps I am being somewhat lazy, relying on anecdotal reasoning over any real concrete proof! Now that I have you here, what are your thoughts regarding the standards mentioned?

hillsiderunner

dublin runner wrote: »

Excuse my ignorance but when did the standard in the women's race get so poor? Has it always been this way? At least on the men's side there's going to be a decent time and a good race hopefully. Are we looking at another 2.49ish winning time? That to me is very weak. You can only beat the runners that turn up so it's no reflection on the person that actually wins the race.

Fortunately a big pb for Laura Graham to win in 2:41:53.

Not Olympics level but big progress and given that some of our best are still recovering, that's not too bad. Would love to see her go on to bigger things with some years of training, she has incredible talent to do that after just a couple of years running.

Dubgal72

Absolutely brilliant to see the elites finishing: the fluidity, speed and of course, agony in some cases. Delighted for Serge, national title :cool:

dublin runner

hillsiderunner wrote:

Fortunately a big pb for Laura Graham to win in 2:41:53.

She looked extremely good on course. Excellent running, brilliant to see!

youngrun

jamule wrote: »

I think depth is way down on the mid eighties. There were alot more 20-35 yr olds running back then. That age group just doesnt exist anymore.

Why not ??...

jamule

youngrun wrote: »

Why not ??...

how many reasons do you need, i can give you plenty but i would imagine it comes down to could not be arsed & too many other things to do. Running is just not suited to lifestyle of somebody in that age group.

youngrun

jamule wrote: »

how many reasons do you need, i can give you plenty but i would imagine it comes down to could not be arsed & too many other things to do. Running is just not suited to lifestyle of somebody in that age group.

Probably right

Are a good few gone to other sports or just not bothered with run bar a few at the top

Should AAI not focus on this age bracket now instead of F4L and Parkrun which have done good jobs of getting new recruits in and keeping them going and fuelling and funding the running boom.

RayCun

1985 Berlin marathon
21 Irish runners, (20 M 1 F)
looks like many of them were based in Germany
Fastest was 2:38, then 2:47, rest over 3 hours

1990
59 Irish (52 M 7 F)
still some from Germany but a lot of travellers
2:31, 2:33, 2:46 and three 2:5x

1995
7 Irish (all M) (results are not as clear, there could be more, but not fast)
2:30 and the rest over 3

2000
9 Irish (8 + 1)
all over 3

2005
65 Irish (49M + 16 F including hunnymonster?)
fastest man was 2:44
One woman under 3 hours

2010
215 Men! they all heard Krusty was going! none under 2:40
70 women! they all heard Krusty was going! none under 3

2015
a lot
13 men under 2:30
48 under 3
Lizzie Lee running 2.32

okay, that was a qualification year
2014
4 men running 2:3x
4 more 2:4x
25 running 2:5x
2 women running under 3

RayCun

youngrun wrote: »

Should AAI not focus on this age bracket now instead of F4L and Parkrun which have done good jobs of getting new recruits in and keeping them going and fuelling and funding the running boom.

As far as I can see, AAI spends practically no time on Parkrun, and not a lot more on F4L. Recreational runners are mainly a cash cow

An awful lot more time and energy is spent on juveniles and high-end competition - international events, national championships.

Arguably there is not a lot done for the juniors/young seniors without realistic prospects of winning national medals. Particularly those who aren't distance runners (since they have a road running scene to join). I'm not sure what should be done about those people though, and if whatever should be done is really the responsibility of the AAI...

(Neither is there a lot done by the AAI for masters runners without realistic prospects of winning national medals)

Sacksian

The problem, as far as I can see, is managing the transition from juvenile/junior through to senior, both inside and outside clubs (i.e. schools competitions). Once they leave parental supervision / school structures, the numbers just vanish.

We have (and probably have always had) some really, really brilliant juveniles and juniors in the country. The very best will be expected to challenge for international vests and national titles, but there are a lot of very capable runners lost to the sport once they leave juvenile competition or school (having never been part of the club structure).

They're the key to having deeper senior competition - it's a huge cohort that'll include a lot of kids who haven't taken it seriously or, for whatever reason, are slower to develop (and could be competing at a high level later on). Some of the very best juveniles will drop out or concentrate on other sports and the fields get even shallower.

Why it's occurred is obviously cultural but I think there is more competition amongst sports than there was in the '80s and, perhaps more importantly, we don't have the same number of world-class athletes and certainly not with the same level of profile.

In the case of middle-distance running (which should feed longer endurance running numbers), it is more of a niche sport now than it was back then. We had some of the best milers and we were regularly watching a golden age of British middle-distance running being broadcast on primetime UK television (with almost no competition) at the same time. The standards then would still be competitive today - British 800m record is from 1981 and the mile record is from 1986. Our 1500m/mile record is from 1982. Whatever about the East Africans raising standards in distance events, there's no genetic reason that we can't beat our own national records from thirty-five years ago - excuse the digression!

I don't think it'll be solved by bigger numbers doing Parkrun or Fit4Life - it's about improving the poxy conversion rate from junior/juvenile to senior.