Would you date a "married" woman?

piglet74

Follow on from my previous thread, asking for advice on how to move on after a marriage breakdown.

My husband was a serial cheat, had a string of affairs, a few kids, and even led a double life begin my back.

We are now separated, but not divorced, no notion of ever getting divorced.

When I posted my original thread there, I also posted it on another forum, and although it is world wide, the majority of users are American.

The majority of replies to my thread were adamant that I need to divorce asap, no man will date a married woman, the words barge pole even mentioned!

I have no plans to divorce at all, I don't see myself as married, I don't see myself as Mr Piglets' wife etc

So my question is, would you men have any problems or hang ups around dating a woman who is separated, but not divorced?

Stopped Clock

Why do you not want to divorce Mr Piglet? Financial reasons?

I'm not a man so I'm not your intended target audience. But if the genders were switched around I have to admit it is something that could start to bother me down the line. If something came of my relationship with the separated man, I would hate that he was still tied to another woman on paper.. I'm also a person who would like to get married some day so I would resent that option being taken away from me. I would also be wondering why he wouldn't divorce her. Hope that helps!

Dial Hard

piglet74 wrote:

When I posted my original thread there, I also posted it on another forum, and although it is world wide, the majority of users are American.

The majority of replies to my thread were adamant that I need to divorce asap, no man will date a married woman, the words barge pole even mentioned!

They're posting from a *completely* different perspective. You can divorce pretty much immediately in the US so the responses you got were from people who would find it very difficult to fathom why you would stay married when you didn't have to.

Having said that, even with the situation here being vastly different and divorce being an extremely protracted procedure, I also can't really understand why you wouldn't want to divorce your ex. Why stay legally bound to someone when you've no reason to? It can take a helluva long time to get a divorce in Ireland even after the four years requirement is up so there's really nothing to be gained by stalling.

Anyway, in answer to your "real" question, in my own experience, no, Irish men don't have an issue dating a separated-and-waiting-to-be-divorced woman as they understand how ridiculously long the process is here.

A don't-actually-intend-to-get-divorced woman might be a different matter though.

Can I ask, do you even have a separation agreement? Judicial separation? Cause if you've split up but haven't actually made it official in *any* way then I can see why someone might be dubious.

Red Kev

No problem being with a separated woman, I was in a relationship with one where we lived together.

I would find it odd that she wouldn't eventually divorce sometime in the future. I could imagine that might put some strain on the relationship especially when it comes to long term commitments, inheritance etc.

Why exactly have you no intention of getting divorced if you don't mind me asking.

piglet74

Well I don't think I should have to foot the bill for a divorce, if he presented me with papers I would gladly sign them.

I don't have the money to do it anyways,

I don't feel married, I never changed my name, on my passport, driving license etc.

I feel single, I feel detached from him, I feel like I used to be married, and now I am not.

I don't intend to remarry at any point, nor do I wish to live with anyone again.

To me divorce is just a piece of paper.

piglet74

piglet74 wrote: »

To me divorce is just a piece of paper.

Yeah, but it's not though.
Are you living in Ireland?

piglet74

Well also had no assets, nothing to split in two, no children to sort custody of, etc.

It would just be another bill to pay.

I have no problems being divorced if he wishes to start proceedings, but I cant afford to do it myself.

iguana

piglet74 wrote: »

To me divorce is just a piece of paper.

Objectively it's not though. He's your legal next of kin, your closest legal relative. If you become medically incapacitated he is the one who will make the decisions. He has a claim on any financial asset you will ever own. He gets final say on your funeral arrangements. Etc.

Dial Hard

piglet74 wrote:

Well also had no assets, nothing to split in two, no children to sort custody of, etc.

It would just be another bill to pay.

Sorry, but these are all just excuses. My ex and I had none of these things either, I also hadn't changed my name but there is no way in hell I'd have had this "Ho hum, we'll just pretend it never happened" attitude to our marriage.

Sorry, OP, but I'm not entirely sure you understand just how weighty a concept marriage is in Irish law. It's constitutionally protected.

piglet74

On all my medical records, hospital notes etc, my mum is my NOK,

I got married in the USA, and although it is recognised here (N Ireland) I never registered any paperwork here, or changed my name with the bank, work, etc.

Shint0

I still think you should consider. I saw your other thread where you said you have no interest in having another serious relationship. You might meet someone and change your mind. By delaying it you just push it back further. I'm in the same situation and hoping to start the process possibly next week. When the dust settles I am interested in looking for a long-term relationship. I'm not bothered about actually getting married again but it would be good to have the option especially if any future partner preferred to get married and be able to draw a line under my first one.

Ursus Horribilis

http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/how-to-get-divorced-for-less-than-200-1.2070254 I'm not suggesting you go down this road but I'm making you aware of other options.

While I can understand why you're bitter over your marriage and your ex's behaviour, you are coming across as a mixture of a child throwing its toys out of the pram and an ostrich burying its head in the sand.

piglet74

sorry but this link is not relevant to me at all, I don't live in ROI as posted above

And, you have either mixed my posts up with someone else's, or misread mine, I'm am not one bit bitter over my marriage, and I don't understand why you think I am, or why I am throwing toys out of the pram. I'm lost?

piglet74

I'm not pretending that it never happened? I'm accepting that it is over.

If I'm asked, are you married, I say I'm separated, I don't say, no I never was.

I won't change my mind about having a relationship, I know I won't. It would be like trying to convince someone to have kids, who doesn't want them, or someone who doesn't want to marry to do so. Its not going to happen, of that I am certain.

milli milli

piglet74 wrote: »

I won't change my mind about having a relationship, I know I won't.

So if all you are interested in is casual dating, that will never lead to a relationship, then it really doesn't matter if you're single / married / divorced.

If you're going to keep things light and non-committal, you don't need to disclose any relationship history.

just be upfront with the guys and also be aware that you may develop feelings for someone casual.

If you win the euromillions jackpot tonight your husband will take half.

Dial Hard

piglet74 wrote:

sorry but this link is not relevant to me at all, I don't live in ROI as posted above

In fairness you're posting on an Irish site, people are going to respond based on the legislation here.

BetsyEllen

Ah come on, you're all being pretty harsh on the OP.

She can't afford to get divorced. Simple as that.
She wants to know how men would feel about dating a married woman, she doesn't need a lecture on why she should get divorced.

bucketybuck

Would I date a separated woman? Sure.

Would I date a married woman who has no intention of divorcing her ex? No way. That just screams "issues", red flags, future drama and all that other good stuff that rational people don't need in their life.

ted1

piglet74 wrote: »

Well I don't think I should have to foot the bill for a divorce, if he presented me with papers I would gladly sign them.

I don't have the money to do it anyways,

I don't feel married, I never changed my name, on my passport, driving license etc.

I feel single, I feel detached from him, I feel like I used to be married, and now I am not.

I don't intend to remarry at any point, nor do I wish to live with anyone again.

To me divorce is just a piece of paper.

Do you work and does he? Do you own property?
You might see it as a piece of paper but the eyes of the law see it as a legally binding contract that comes with terms and conditions

iguana

bubblypop wrote: »

If you win the euromillions jackpot tonight your husband will take half.

Or more realistically, if you ever inherit anything from your parents/other family members, he has a claim on it. Buy a house of build up savings now, he has a claim on it. It doesn't matter where you got married. US marriages are automatically recognised in the UK as long as it's legal in the US. You don't have to do anything to register it. Just the day has to come when, for whatever reason, he decides he wants part of your assets, he can come after them. That's quite the sword to have hanging over your head.

um7y1h83ge06nx

I would echo the sentiments of bucketybuck.

If it was just sex and a bit of a laugh I wouldn't have an issue but If it had the potential of getting serious I wouldn't for two reasons.

Firstly it would feel like you are "sitting on the fence" with regards your marriage. Secondly it could create legal issues If I was to buy a property with you, open a joint account or have a child with you.

SarahMollie

I wouldnt really take the opinion of a load of Americans on this particular subject. Divorces is much easier in their country, so sure, from their perspective that is weird, because why wouldnt you just divorce? I don't think the notion of being legally separated long term is something they do over there, so really their opinions are not relevant in the Irish/UK context.

IMO the main issue that might limit you is that you've said you do not wish to remarry, regardless of being separated or divorced. That will obviously limit you to men who are in agreement with this, but I don't thing being separated versus divorced would make a difference if you've no intention of marrying again anyway.

If you've no assets and say you can't afford to divorce, would you at least consult your local legal aid? It might be quite simple given that there are no kids and no property - I don't think a no contest divorce needs to be expensive in the UK.

Ursus Horribilis

This is an extreme example but I remember this happening a few years ago. An Irish woman won the New York lottery and her estranged husband got a substantial chunk of her winnings. It didn't matter that he'd left her and was now living with someone else. In the eyes of the law he was still her husband.

http://www.irishcentral.com/news/irish-new-york-lotto-winner-reaches-settlement-with-ex-husband-in-time-for-christmas-184973331-237555571#

By stubbornly refusing to end the marriage you are cutting off your nose to spite your face. You seem to be under the impression that you can simply forget that it ever happened. This could come back to bite you at a time you least expect or need it. As a matter of interest, what do you fill in your marriage status as on paperwork?

njs030

In the title of your post you refer to yourself as married, that's how other people will see you.
Perhaps you never want a relationship but as other posters have told you there's more to divorce than re-marriage.
The laws in the UK allow for divorce a lot faster than ROI too so you aren't stuck with a 4 year wait.

I had a relationship with a man who was separated but not yet divorced as he was waiting for the 4 years and to be honest I wouldn't do it again. As unfair as it seems I was quite conscious that until the divorce was finalised there was another woman who would be in charge if anything happened to him and who had a right to a part of any house we bought, savings we collected etc.

Don't you have a child with your husband though? Surely things need to be settled in terms of their future?

osarusan

piglet74 wrote: »

I have no plans to divorce at all, I don't see myself as married, I don't see myself as Mr Piglets' wife etc

you might see it that way, but you can't control how others see it. In fact, that's what you're here to ask, and the answers have been fairly clear.

People don't like the idea. It says 'Red Flag' to people.

Certainly I would be baffled by the attitude of somebody on the one hand having no relationship whatsoever with an ex-partner but still having no apparent plan/desire at all to get officially divorced. I think it would be fairly typical to assume that somebody who does not see themselves as a partner of X anymore would undertake the process of making that separation official.

Where are you living, and how much would it cost to get a divorce? And is that a price worth paying to put potential suitors' minds at rest?

EDIT: Sorry, I see you are living in NI. Here's some info, if you haven't already checked.

Conor Bourke

piglet74 wrote: »

On all my medical records, hospital notes etc, my mum is my NOK

In Ireland, that has zero standing, your husband would still be classed as your legal next of kin and could overrule your wishes if you were unresponsive or the wishes of your mother. In NI/UK it is somewhat more binding but still not a risk I would like to take by any stretch.

What's stopping you from asking your husband to sort it out if you can't afford it?

Emme

OP your husband was happy to have a string of casual affairs behind your back while you are married. Now you're separated and you know about it. I don't know if your husband is in another relationship but being separated as opposed to divorced might suit him. He can continue having casual affairs and doesn't have to commit to anyone because he's separated, not divorced.

If you want a committed relationship and chance at happiness (the happiness you didn't get with your estranged husband) you have to be in the best position to get it. That means getting divorced if possible. If you are happy with casual relationships by all means stay as you are. There are single men who deliberately seek out married or separated women because they don't want commitment.

If money is a problem contact your citizens advice bureau and see if they can give you advice on legal aid.

piglet74

I live in N Ireland

I have no property, no joint bank accounts, no joint finances, one adult child, no notion of having anymore.

Work full time, as does he. Won't get legal aid.
It will cost in the region of 1000 I believe,
For all I know in 6 months, when we are separated two years, he may well start proceedings, and if that's the case I would be more than happy to cooperate, sign on the line etc.

eviltwin

If you don't want to get divorced then that is fine, its your decision and nothing wrong with that.

You will probably find it harder to meet men for a long term relationship as a consequence though so be prepared for that.

Although you have no ties with your ex many men may see your reluctance to divorce as a psychological bond that you are not willing to break, they may feel that they are second best as they cannot legally marry you and the legal implications if you are to get sick etc will be a factor for many too.

I know you think its just a bit of paper and a formality because at this stage you are no longer involved but its the lack of finality that will mean he is always there.

Do you think your unwillingness to divorce him is maybe a form of punishment for him for his affairs? I believe you when you say you don't want him back so I'm wondering if you are subconsciously trying to get the upper hand for once.

Personally I think you should just do it for your own closure and happiness long term.

Conor Bourke

OP if you are so unshakable in your belief that you will not ever get into another serious relationship then why did you even start this thread? What were you hoping to be told? Why does it even matter? Surely if you're adamant that you're only ever hoping for is casual relationships then it won't even matter.

Bandana boy

Just tell people you are divorced , if you not planning on anything more than casual anyway the lie will never come up as an issue , and if it does you can either fess up then or pay to get it sorted

homerjay2005

bucketybuck wrote: »

Would I date a separated woman? Sure.

Would I date a married woman who has no intention of divorcing her ex? No way. That just screams "issues", red flags, future drama and all that other good stuff that rational people don't need in their life.

this sums up the entire debate in one post.

OP, get yourself a divorce and get on with the rest of your life. you are tied to him legally for the rest of your life until you do.

piglet74

Because my question was would you date... Not would you have a serious relationship with.

I'm curious, is that not allowed?
The original question has turned into a debate on divorce,

Conor Bourke

piglet74 wrote: »

Because my question was would you date... Not would you have a serious relationship with.

I'm curious, is that not allowed?
The original question has turned into a debate on divorce,

Of course you're allowed be curious but the post above your last one and the one it quotes seems to sum up the consensus opinion relating to your original question.

Ursus Horribilis

Well you got answers. Mostly not what you wanted to hear. I'm sure you'll meet men who aren't fussed either way. Best of luck.

njs030

piglet74 wrote: »

Because my question was would you date... Not would you have a serious relationship with.

I'm curious, is that not allowed?
The original question has turned into a debate on divorce,

If you changed it to would you casually date or would you sleep with a separated woman you'd get different answers.

Turtle_

piglet74 wrote: »

Because my question was would you date... Not would you have a serious relationship with.

I'm curious, is that not allowed?
The original question has turned into a debate on divorce,

Have you family from whom you might inherit anything? Do you ever play the lottery?

If your ex is able to pay for a divorce, and isn't doing anything about it, then you have to suspect even a little bit that he's keeping the door open to a slice of anything you get in the future. That's a door I'd want to close.

I'm female, so I'll convert the genders in your question.

The answer is no - not when they have no intention of ever divorcing their ex. Even if I wasn't looking for something serious, no. Even if I was just casually dating, I'd still be open to something developing. It'd mean I could never take the risk ever moving in with him because if he ever got a claim on anything of mine through common law, then maybe their ex could too. I could never buy a home with them, could never share assets because there would always, always be a risk that someone unconnected to me could take a chunk of what's mine.

I couldn't even casually date someone in those circumstances because what if I really fell for them?

Dial Hard

piglet74 wrote:

Because my question was would you date... Not would you have a serious relationship with.

And you got a very succinct answer:

bucketybuck wrote:

Would I date a separated woman? Sure.

Would I date a married woman who has no intention of divorcing her ex? No way. That just screams "issues", red flags, future drama and all that other good stuff that rational people don't need in their life.

Ursus Horribilis

Even if you never get a date, are you not worried that your ex might want half of anything left to you in the future? Does your mum (parents?) own a house for example? Or your pension/lump sum when you retire?

piglet74

No, my parents dont own anything either,
Eg their own home etc.

I have a will made, would that not suffice?

piglet74

If you changed it to would you casually date or would you sleep with a separated woman you'd get different answers.

This is probably how I should have worded it, but as I said originally this was a follow up post, and the original did state I only wanted casual.

Turtle_

piglet74 wrote: »

No, my parents dont own anything either,
Eg their own home etc.

I have a will made, would that not suffice?

Afaik wills can be contested. Plus, if you won a sum of money, he could initiate divorce proceedings and claim half

piglet74

Do you think your unwillingness to divorce him is maybe a form of punishment for him for his affairs? I believe you when you say you don't want him back so I'm wondering if you are subconsciously trying to get the upper hand for once.

Definitely not, no way

As stated above, if he wants to start proceedings, and pick up the bill, then I will sign the papers quicker than I said, I do.

njs030

piglet74 wrote: »

If you changed it to would you casually date or would you sleep with a separated woman you'd get different answers.

This is probably how I should have worded it, but as I said originally this was a follow up post, and the original did state I only wanted casual.

Well you're not meant to have multiple threads open at the same time and it's possible not everyone responding to this thread has read your previous one.

In reply to your previous post I don't know what the UK law is but I'd guess your spouse has a legal right to some of your estate will or no will. Again, you'll need legal advice which isn't permitted.
You seem very blasé about a legal relationship which has financial and legal repercussions for as long as it continues and all you seem concerned about is dating......maybe find out more about what being legally married and living apart vs divorced actually means before dismissing it.

Edit to add- even if he instigated divorce proceedings you will still have to pay for your side. It's not free.....

Ursus Horribilis

I don't know what the law is like in other countries but in Ireland you cannot disinherit your spouse.

bucketybuck

piglet74 wrote: »

If you changed it to would you casually date or would you sleep with a separated woman you'd get different answers.

This is probably how I should have worded it, but as I said originally this was a follow up post, and the original did state I only wanted casual.

You can change it to whatever definition of "date" you want, most men still want to avoid drama in their life and what you describe is a big old flag with word "drama" on it.

daisybelle2008

OP, you said in your other thread that some days you find it really hard not to contact him. You also have a daughter with him and were with him for 20 years.
From the outside it doesn't scream 'drama free' that you don't plan to divorce him. Potential suitors might be inclined to think you were keeping the door open for a reconciliation by not divorcing. I know that's what I'd think if the genders were reversed. You work full time, a small credit union loan would cover it, so I'm finding it hard truly believing it's just about the money and not holding on to your past despite what you say, your actions are not matching. The fact he wants to get back together would also drive me to take action and divorce to make clearer that's not going to happen.

Estrellita

Op, if you had a string of one off dates and never mentioned your history, then it's hardly going to matter. If you see someone more than once or twice you do run the risk of developing feelings, or wanting more. Casual sex arrangements with just one partner often get a bit complicated for the woman (not all, of course).

I very quickly went through the thread, so I didn't see your answer as to whether you are legally separated or not. Officially being separated is vital if you have any shared assets, debts, children etc. Though from reading what you have said, I think you could get away with a clean split.

I'm not trying to antagonise you, do please bear with me. I think you need to have a think about why you don't want to make the official split. When still legally attached to an ex spouse, he technically could still have a say in your income, inheritances, winnings, and would certainly be viewed as your next of kin.

People here giving you advice on this are not missing the point of the thread, but what you have said does raise concerns because it is related to your question.

I'm a divorced woman, by the way. I had a relatively uncomplicated divorce in that we also did not share assets, debts, etc, but we do have school going children. I opted for split down the middle costs, and as much access as he could manage around his work. This uncomplicated set up made it an ideal case for a DIY divorce.

The split itself was ugly, I instigated not because of affairs but of a very controlling person he was towards me, I wasn't happy. I did go on to DIY divorce him, no out of control expenses, the company just sent me my paperwork and he and I had our day in court.

The reason I did it was to tie up legal ends, and also for my own sanity and complete closure. A weight has been lifted. I'm now with an absolute God send of a man, and I'm so glad that I went through that process.

Having casual dates, that's perfectly fine when both parties are on the same page. But try to remember that not all men are like your ex. If a guy gets to know you, like you and finding he wants to spend more time with you.. what happens then? 'sorry, I can't get involved with you because my ex was a b. astard to me'?

I hope you enjoy dating again op, but doing some groundwork on yourself is a good idea, examining your wants, needs, and motives.

alibab

I spent 3 years with a man you altough seperated did nothing about it legally . His theory was it didn't matter etc and would wait for the 5 years for divorce. I explained numerous times being divorced myself what a legal separation meant to me explaining that essentially I was the other women in the eyes of the law etc and how bothered I was by this .

When we split for this and many other reasons he had the cheek to ask my why this bothered me etc although I had explained numerous times . In hindsight the relationship could never move on and how many more years should I waste as we could never build a life together.

I am since in another relationship with the right person and I spent 9 years telling everyone I would never marry again etc I was Full sure as anyone can be . Guess what I met the right person and I will marry again which is what we both want so never say never .

I so regret getting involved and wasting the 3 years etc I know you said you don't want anything long term but never say never .

piglet74

The holiday I mentioned above that I am just home from, was paid for from a CU loan, I'm not in a position to borrow any more.

I feel like I have now got more than ample information on the divorce process.

I.mentioned above that I have one adult child, and don't want any more, and no one bats an eye, or try's to convince me otherwise.

But when I say I dont want another relationship, the consensus is I will change my mind. I can assure you this is not the case

As with property. I previously owned a house, and would never buy again. Nothing will change my mind on that.

I know how strongly I feel on the relationship issue.

I do not want to rekindle any kind of relationship between us, I am civil to him when I see him for my daughters sake. When I say I find it hard not to contact him at times, its not to beg him to come back, or tell him I made a mistake when i threw him out.