Alcohol Sales Law

1hnr79jr65

I am just home after doing some shopping, getting the few usual bits veg, fruit, meat, bog roll, bleach and a few cans of beer. The most stunning thing happened to me, I got asked for ID by the guy on checkout and the guys reason was I looked under 18 years old.

I found this strange, surprising and very insulting as I'm 34 years old. I'm about average height, carrying a bit of weight, no crazy hair styles while dressed in polo shirt, cords and me looking at me I would t say I was under 30. I'll be honest I was furious at this stage and still quiet angry right now about it.

So there are most shops in the country which have signed up to a "Think 25" policy that is agreement with the Vintners Federation and the Gardai which this guy point to that it's the law.

So my questions to all here are the following

1. Is it actually the law that if you look under 25 that you can be forced to produce ID to prove age or is the just an "agreement" as the law states the age of consent to purchase alcohol is 18?

2. What training do these people get for identify proper age as to be stopped for ID when much older is highly insulting?

I am considering challenging this and writing a complaint to the manager of this shop. Would I have any grounds for success ?

Mervyn Skidmore

I presume they are allowed to ask anyone they want for ID and refuse sale if they can't prove age. A few similar things happened to me recently. I'm in my 30s, beard, and fairly grey hair and was asked for ID recently. I had an old age card in my wallet that satisfied them. I asked them if they get many 16 or 17 year olds with beards and grey hair. Another time I was buying beer and my 25 year old brother was with me, who doesn't drink. They refused to sell me because he didn't have ID with him, I did. That was fairly laughable, I asked would they refuse someone if they were shopping with their kids. It's annoying but I wouldn't bother going anywhere with it.

1hnr79jr65

Mervyn Skidmore wrote: »

I presume they are allowed to ask anyone they want for ID and refuse sale if they can't prove age. A few similar things happened to me recently. I'm in my 30s, beard, and fairly grey hair and was asked for ID recently. I had an old age card in my wallet that satisfied them. I asked them if they get many 16 or 17 year olds with beards and grey hair. Another time I was buying beer and my 25 year old brother was with me, who doesn't drink. They refused to sell me because he didn't have ID with him, I did. That was fairly laughable, I asked would they refuse someone if they were shopping with their kids. It's annoying but I wouldn't bother going anywhere with it.

Yeah it's a bit pointless if they can't tell the difference really. I know there are kids under 18 who can look more mature or older however it is insulting to someone who is clearly way over the legal age.

punisher5112

Op I don't see why anyone would be annoyed I would love it I wasn't even asked ID when I was 17 never mind now.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

Ignore it OP. They're just jumped up power hungry little shìts.

1hnr79jr65

punisher5112 wrote: »

Op I don't see why anyone would be annoyed I would love it I wasn't even asked ID when I was 17 never mind now.

Laws are grand if certain elements are actually law and not some potentially made up stuff that has never been ratified into law.

Also there needs to be proper training and better ways for that message to be put to customers than how I was treated.

eeguy

The Honey Monster wrote: »

Ignore it OP. They're just jumped up power hungry little shìts.

The lads in Lidl and Aldi are trained to ask EVERYONE.

The laws around underage selling are punitive. Lad could lose his job, shop can be forced to close for a few day, fines, named and shamed etc.

It's easier to ask everyone than run the risk of a big 17 year old with a beard getting through.

GBX

Sour Lemonz wrote: »

I am just home after doing some shopping, getting the few usual bits veg, fruit, meat, bog roll, bleach and a few cans of beer. The most stunning thing happened to me, I got asked for ID by the guy on checkout and the guys reason was I looked under 18 years old.

I found this strange, surprising and very insulting as I'm 34 years old. I'm about average height, carrying a bit of weight, no crazy hair styles while dressed in polo shirt, cords and me looking at me I would t say I was under 30. I'll be honest I was furious at this stage and still quiet angry right now about it.

So there are most shops in the country which have signed up to a "Think 25" policy that is agreement with the Vintners Federation and the Gardai which this guy point to that it's the law.

So my questions to all here are the following

1. Is it actually the law that if you look under 25 that you can be forced to produce ID to prove age or is the just an "agreement" as the law states the age of consent to purchase alcohol is 18?

2. What training do these people get for identify proper age as to be stopped for ID when much older is highly insulting?

I am considering challenging this and writing a complaint to the manager of this shop. Would I have any grounds for success ?

If they didn't ask you and you proceeded to get alcohol would you question why you weren't asked? If they sold alcohol to a minor they can be fined. Theyre damned if they ..

runawaybishop

Furious eh? Certainly is a big deal alright.

They can refuse service to anyone that can not prove they are over the legal age required. It would be easier for them if they carded everyone tbh. Would stop people feeling insulted and furious over such a trivial matter.

You have absolutely zero grounds for success by complaining, and rightly so.

Sham.no2

Just be glad you're not in America, everybody gets asked, all the time!

TheChizler

They can make you tap-dance before serving you if they want (as long as you don't have a disability or something). Their shop their rules.

Grolschevik

runawaybishop wrote: »

Furious eh?

I once got asked for ID for a packet of smokes by a young one about ten years younger than me; it was obvious she was having a laugh.

If I had reacted "furiously" rather than with good-humour, she might have felt compelled to go through the whole rigmarole of making me show my ID and confirming my age...

Donutz

Sour Lemonz wrote:

I found this strange, surprising and very insulting as I'm 34 years old. I'm about average height, carrying a bit of weight, no crazy hair styles while dressed in polo shirt, cords and me looking at me I would t say I was under 30. I'll be honest I was furious at this stage and still quiet angry right now about it.

How is it insulting? I'm 35 and would be flattered if I was asked for ID.
Can't believe you got furious because somebody was doing their job properly. How much inconvienence was it for you to root through your pockets and produce some ID?
A family relative was in eastern europe last month and was asked for ID. He's 59.

nkav86

Sour Lemonz wrote:

I am considering challenging this and writing a complaint to the manager of this shop. Would I have any grounds for success ?

What would the complaint entail? The employee was doing their job and had every right to ask for ID if they weren't convinced of your age.

L1011

Manager will support the staff member; there's a good chance they actually believe whatever voluntary policy they've agreed to is "the law" and will state that as if its fact. Just stop shopping there.

The being with someone who hasn't got ID is an even more ridiculous thing and many shops with UK parents will quote a "challenge 25" policy they have which requires it and state "its the law". I believe it is in Scotland - not even the rest of the UK. Its ludicrous as a company policy but they should at least admit if is.

Kings Inns or bust

Just for the craic the only acceptable form of ID if challenged is an age card, at least it's the only form of ID that provides a defence in regard to off licence sales.

Furious? I'd be ****ing delighted.

Charlie19

Sham.no2 wrote: »

Just be glad you're not in America, everybody gets asked, all the time!

I was sat right at the bar in this pub and every round of drinks I ordered, I was asked each and every time for ID.

I just found it funny.

Its all about covering their ass.

hullaballoo

I haven't been asked for ID since I was 27 and at 32 now I would kiss someone if they asked me for ID.

I agree that it would save them the bother of having to deal with people getting upset about getting asked for ID if they asked everyone. It removes any avenue for getting outraged if it's across the board, even if that outrage is grossly misplaced. (Goes to show the lengths to which some people will go to get offended that a 34-year-old is genuinely seething with rage over someone thinking he might be 10 years younger. Beggars belief really.)

I get annoyed when paying at those self-service checkouts and the staff come over and hit "Clearly over 25" on the screen. I always feel like telling them they should have "Not under 25" instead to avoid hurting my feelings.

Walter2016

eeguy wrote: »

The lads in Lidl and Aldi are trained to ask EVERYONE.

The laws around underage selling are punitive. Lad could lose his job, shop can be forced to close for a few day, fines, named and shamed etc.

It's easier to ask everyone than run the risk of a big 17 year old with a beard getting through.

They wouldn't ask me - I told her it was unfair.

Even worse was in USA last year - they refused a colleague who was five years older than me cos he hadn't ID, but waved me in.

Can you please tell me the store you were in, I need to visit it.!

But, seriously, yes they can ask for ID no matter what age you are. They can also create their own age limit once its 18 or over and applied equally to everyone.

johnnyskeleton

Charlie19 wrote: »

I was sat right at the bar in this pub and every round of drinks I ordered, I was asked each and every time for ID.

I just found it funny.

Its all about covering their ass.

"Hey Charlie, same again?"

"Yes please Dave"

"Can I just see your ID again please?"

Kings Inns or bust

Walter2016 wrote: »

But, seriously, yes they can ask for ID no matter what age you are. They can also create their own age limit once its 18 or over and applied equally to everyone.

I don't believe that would be legal and would fall under discrimination legislation. Granted a literal interpretation would allow it IIRC I don't believe though that an establishment would be allowed to introduce overt age discrimination under the guise of adherence to the law governing alcohol sales.

cml387

Kings Inns or bust wrote: »

I don't believe that would be legal and would fall under discrimination legislation. Granted a literal interpretation would allow it IIRC I don't believe though that an establishment would be allowed to introduce overt age discrimination under the guise of adherence to the law governing alcohol sales.

How on earth can it be discrimination? If you have ID you get drink. No ID no drink.

I went through a period of being asked if I'm over 21 in Aldi last year. I'm well over 50 and I am not Madonna.

Kings Inns or bust

cml387 wrote: »

How on earth can it be discrimination? If you have ID you get drink. No ID no drink.

I went through a period of being asked if I'm over 21 in Aldi last year. I'm well over 50 and I am not Madonna.

You need to read the post I quoted.

'They can also create their own age limit once its 18 or over and applied equally to everyone.'

There is two interpretations to that, one being that if a premises decides we will not sell alcohol to anyone under 70 a literal reading of the legislation would allow that. I believe this would come undone rather quickly. Of course the poster could have meant they can engage a challenge 100 policy as opposed to a challenge 25. I think a similar issue would arise but it's highly unlikely to over happen whereas the former scenario could very easily arise.

I believe the era of Madonna passing for anything than her actual age has long since passed. Jennifer Aniston on the other hand, or come to think of it Famke Janssen... speaking of hands and Famke I'll be back shortly.

Del2005

Kings Inns or bust wrote: »

I don't believe that would be legal and would fall under discrimination legislation. Granted a literal interpretation would allow it IIRC I don't believe though that an establishment would be allowed to introduce overt age discrimination under the guise of adherence to the law governing alcohol sales.

Pubs allowed here higher age limits than 18 once its visibly posted , so a shop can have a similar higher limit.

Kings Inns or bust

Del2005 wrote: »

Pubs allowed here higher age limits than 18 once its visibly posted , so a shop can have a similar higher limit.

Interesting, has this ever been challenged? I seem to remember some discussion of this in various forums. Certainly as conceded the legislation would allow it in terms of sales, but in regard to access to the premises I remain, and open to, be(ing) convinced.

Del2005

Mervyn Skidmore wrote: »

Another time I was buying beer and my 25 year old brother was with me, who doesn't drink. They refused to sell me because he didn't have ID with him, I did. That was fairly laughable, I asked would they refuse someone if they were shopping with their kids. It's annoying but I wouldn't bother going anywhere with it.

They have to assume that both of you will be consuming the alcohol so both need ID. Happened to a group of us in the US. 4 of us getting a shed loads of beers for a party and one person didn't have ID so no sale. Told are hosts and they said that they won't serve her if she brings her teenage son to the shop. The person serving could loose their job if a manager saw them violating the company alcohol policy so I don't blame them.

Del2005

Kings Inns or bust wrote: »

Interesting, has this ever been challenged? I seem to remember some discussion of this in various forums. Certainly as conceded the legislation would allow it in terms of sales, but in regard to access to the premises I remain, and open to, be(ing) convinced.

Discrimination laws have loads of exemptions. I'd rather the religious discrimination law which allows discrimination on religious grounds was challenged before the discrimination law allowing 18 year olds being not allowed into licenced premises challenged.

Kings Inns or bust

Del2005 wrote: »

Discrimination laws have loads of exemptions. I'd rather the religious discrimination law which allows discrimination on religious grounds was challenged before the discrimination law allowing 18 year olds being not allowed into licenced premises challenged.

I understand where you're coming from but I'm curious as to what the basis is for your assertion.

As far as I can see there is an implied licence which can't be revoked on the grounds of age. The sale is covered by the Equal Status Act 2000 IIRC and access to Clubs is also covered again IIRC, but Public Houses?

mansize

Kings Inns or bust wrote: »

Interesting, has this ever been challenged? I seem to remember some discussion of this in various forums. Certainly as conceded the legislation would allow it in terms of sales, but in regard to access to the premises I remain, and open to, be(ing) convinced.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2003/act/31/section/25/enacted/en/html

mansize

Kings Inns or bust wrote: »

I understand where you're coming from but I'm curious as to what the basis is for your assertion.

As far as I can see there is an implied licence which can't be revoked on the grounds of age. The sale is covered by the Equal Status Act 2000 IIRC and access to Clubs is also covered again IIRC, but Public Houses?

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2003/act/31/section/25/enacted/en/html

1hnr79jr65

Donutz wrote: »

How is it insulting? I'm 35 and would be flattered if I was asked for ID.
Can't believe you got furious because somebody was doing their job properly. How much inconvienence was it for you to root through your pockets and produce some ID?
A family relative was in eastern europe last month and was asked for ID. He's 59.

It is insulting from the point of view that a made up agreement is not law and then trying to impose said agreement as an argument to ID someone is over the top.

I really do appreciate the law for stopping under 18's buying alcohol, it is a sensible law, however this blustering of applying something that isnt even legislated is beyond a joke.

I would be happier if the law read "do not sell or serve alcohol to Those that cannot produce a drivers licence, passport of Garda card to prove they are over the age of 18" as this would put the onus on the purchaser to volunteer ID or be exempted for buying alcohol. That would be more clear cut and remove ambiguity and stop rubbish made up legislation and I would be happy to abide by that.

However the current system relies on a staff member being informed enough to make an educated assumption that the customer is over required age and can often come across as insulting or power trip in attitude for apply same.

And this was in Lidl this happened today, I've never been asked for ID is the 3 years I have been shopping there until today when buying alcohol.

Kings Inns or bust

mansize wrote: »

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2003/act/31/section/25/enacted/en/html

Very much obliged there General!

I would point out though this is licenced premises and NOT off-licences who have different provisions, including the aforementioned Age Card!

mansize

Sour Lemonz wrote: »

It is insulting from the point of view that a made up agreement is not law and then trying to impose said agreement as an argument to ID someone is over the top.

I really do appreciate the law for stopping under 18's buying alcohol, it is a sensible law, however this blustering of applying something that isnt even legislated is beyond a joke.

I would be happier if the law read "do not sell or serve alcohol to Those that cannot produce a drivers licence, passport of Garda card to prove they are over the age of 18". That would be more clear cut and remove ambiguity and stop rubbish made up legislation and I would be happy to abide by that.

However the current system relies on a staff member being informed enough to make an educated assumption that the customer is over required age and can often come across as insulting or power trip in attitude for apply same.

And this was in Lidl this happened today, I've never been asked for ID is the 3 years I have been shopping there until today when buying alcohol.

Give the staff member a break! There is no compulsion on anyone to sell alcohol to you

You were asked to verify your age. My mother was once and she's 60! They are just doing their job. Not selling you alcohol is not an offence.

Kings Inns or bust

mansize wrote: »

Give the staff member a break! There is no compulsion on anyone to sell alcohol to you

You were asked to verify your age. My mother was once and she's 60! They are just doing their job. Not selling you alcohol is not an offence.

That's just someone into GILFs

mansize

Kings Inns or bust wrote: »

That's just someone into GILFs

Dude, that's my mother you are talking about 😡

Pat Mustard

cml387 wrote: »

I went through a period of being asked if I'm over 21 in Aldi last year. I'm well over 50 and I am not Madonna.

The boys at Aldi must not have heard of the "customer is clearly over 25" button.

Daft stuff.

:pac:

Kings Inns or bust

mansize wrote: »

Dude, that's my mother you are talking about 😡

I was tempted to offer yet another flippant reply with a veiled compliment but instead I'll concede a mea culpa as my 85% consumption of this rather cheeky red plonk may be resulting in me reading posts in more joking light than intended!

foggy_lad

I was in a Lidl a few weeks ago with my niece(10) and brother in law(50+) and bought some crisps and sweets as well as two bottles of wine and an 8pack of the pils that was on offer. My niece carried the beers up and put them up on the belt and walked through with us and we weren't asked for ID, the guy obviously didn't think that the alcohol was to be served up to the kids with their movie snacks.

Why do other people get asked for ID? is it some kind of profiling or is it that some staff only ask those who are clearly too young for ID?

Walter2016

Sour Lemonz wrote: »

It is insulting from the point of view that a made up agreement is not law and then trying to impose said agreement as an argument to ID someone is over the top.

I really do appreciate the law for stopping under 18's buying alcohol, it is a sensible law, however this blustering of applying something that isnt even legislated is beyond a joke.

I would be happier if the law read "do not sell or serve alcohol to Those that cannot produce a drivers licence, passport of Garda card to prove they are over the age of 18" as this would put the onus on the purchaser to volunteer ID or be exempted for buying alcohol. That would be more clear cut and remove ambiguity and stop rubbish made up legislation and I would be happy to abide by that.

However the current system relies on a staff member being informed enough to make an educated assumption that the customer is over required age and can often come across as insulting or power trip in attitude for apply same.

And this was in Lidl this happened today, I've never been asked for ID is the 3 years I have been shopping there until today when buying alcohol.

I hope you never need to visit the USA - they ask people who are visibly over 50 for ID and if it can't be produced they won't be served.

1hnr79jr65

Walter2016 wrote: »

I hope you never need to visit the USA - they ask people who are visibly over 50 for ID and if it can't be produced they won't be served.

I never have visited the USA nor have I any plans to ever visit there. So no issue with that one.

nuac

LD Mod
Why is this thread reported?
What forum rules does it breach?

Arcade_Tryer

Sour Lemonz wrote: »

I am just home after doing some shopping, getting the few usual bits veg, fruit, meat, bog roll, bleach and a few cans of beer. The most stunning thing happened to me, I got asked for ID by the guy on checkout and the guys reason was I looked under 18 years old.

I found this strange, surprising and very insulting as I'm 34 years old. I'm about average height, carrying a bit of weight, no crazy hair styles while dressed in polo shirt, cords and me looking at me I would t say I was under 30. I'll be honest I was furious at this stage and still quiet angry right now about it.

I am considering challenging this and writing a complaint to the manager of this shop. Would I have any grounds for success ?

1. Jesus f**king Christ at the parts in bold.

2. The staff member did everything correctly.

3. My sympathy to the staff member.

1hnr79jr65

Arcade_Tryer wrote: »

1. Jesus f**king Christ at the parts in bold.

2. The staff member did everything correctly.

3. My sympathy to the staff member.

I agree that the staff member did everything correctly........as he was trained, however it does not mean the training or process were correct.

Your sympathy to the staff member? Where did i say i did/said anything to that particular staff member ?

My issue is with the policy and the process which it is carried out, not with the lad on the checkout, i can't and don't hold him responsible for policies being used which are not law and clearly he has not had proper training to carry out those checks effectively.

runawaybishop

Your issue is a non issue. Get over it and act your age maybe?

witchgirl26

The only time I was every annoyed about having to produce ID when purchasing alcohol was in a supermarket when I bought a couple of bottles of beer with a weekly food shop. Saw them holding them back & knew I was going to get asked (at 31 I still look under age depending on what I wear) so thought, grand so. Issue arose when they wouldn't accept my driving licence as a form of ID and would only accept a Garda Age Card. That was ridiculous. I didn't blame the staff member though - that wasn't her fault. It was the actual shop that I blamed for their stupid policy of only accepting one form of ID (was told they wouldn't even accept passports) which most people don't have. That led to an angry email to them but I wasn't insulted at any point that I was asked for ID. I'd prefer they ask rather than sell to a minor.

nkav86

witchgirl26 wrote:

The only time I was every annoyed about having to produce ID when purchasing alcohol was in a supermarket when I bought a couple of bottles of beer with a weekly food shop. Saw them holding them back & knew I was going to get asked (at 31 I still look under age depending on what I wear) so thought, grand so. Issue arose when they wouldn't accept my driving licence as a form of ID and would only accept a Garda Age Card. That was ridiculous. I didn't blame the staff member though - that wasn't her fault. It was the actual shop that I blamed for their stupid policy of only accepting one form of ID (was told they wouldn't even accept passports) which most people don't have. That led to an angry email to them but I wasn't insulted at any point that I was asked for ID. I'd prefer they ask rather than sell to a minor.

This warrants a complaint definitely, I actually thought it was against the law to refuse passports. But I could be wrong.

weldoninhio

It's a pain in the sense of a rule. I'm 34, don't drive and only have a passport as photo ID.

Thankfully I generally don't need ID, but if I was in doing my weekly shop and they refused to put beer/wine through I'd say thanks, leave the groceries and trolley as they are and walk down the road to the other supermarket.

OldNotWIse

Ignore. Power-trippy twáts. I got asked in a well known German discount store before and I had none with me, so the OH put my bottle of wine in with her shopping and they refused her because she "had someone underage with her". Mind you, the woman behind who was buying a bottle of wine also had an underage with her (her one year old child) but apparently that was ok. I understand if they said, "we think she is buying for the purposes of giving it to you" but no, they wont sell to one person if someone with them is underage. Have you ever heard such fúckin claptrap. And I'm 33...

OldNotWIse

weldoninhio wrote: »

It's a pain in the sense of a rule. I'm 34, don't drive and only have a passport as photo ID.

Thankfully I generally don't need ID, but if I was in doing my weekly shop and they refused to put beer/wine through I'd say thanks, leave the groceries and trolley as they are and walk down the road to the other supermarket.

Me too :P

FanadMan

eeguy wrote: »

The lads in Lidl and Aldi are trained to ask EVERYONE.

The laws around underage selling are punitive. Lad could lose his job, shop can be forced to close for a few day, fines, named and shamed etc.

It's easier to ask everyone than run the risk of a big 17 year old with a beard getting through.

I've never once been asked in my local Lidl. I've bought all sorts of alcohol there as well as knives which are supposed to be carded too. Don't think I've seen anyone getting carded come to think of it.

moc moc a moc

Arcade_Tryer wrote: »

2. The staff member did everything correctly.

Asking a 34-year-old for ID is not 'doing everything correctly'; it's nonsensical and may cause OP to visit another establishment in the future. The manager should be interested to know that they are losing money over an attendant's inability to engage their common sense.

Arcade_Tryer wrote: »

3. My sympathy to the staff member.

My sympathy is split between OP for the hassle, and the shop owner for the money they are likely to lose because of some jobsworth.