Messy Relationship Situation

Ousia78

I've been in a relationship with a fantastic woman for just over a year. She was involved in a marriage which involved various and continuous types of emotional, physical and financial abuse towards her and her child.

Initially our relationship made slow progress - she seemed very fearful of entering another relationship. I have tried my utmost to be for her and her child the best that I can be in every possible sense. She has consistently expressed astonishment at the differences between her former life and her life with me. We are both almost forty and have made very significant plans for our future together.

Recently she has experienced a very tumultuous relationship with her child (teenager). I have formed a very close bond with the teenager in question and am perfectly prepared to support my partner in every way she needs me. My partner has made it very clear to me both in words and actions that I am the one she wants to be with and that her future is very much with me. However, the teenager's father is now involved again and is very much dictating the level and nature of contact he is having with my partner (against the best advice a social worker).

I realise that my partner's child is the absolute priority here and I sincerely hope that the father's involvement will be beneficial. However, given the damage that he caused to my partner I feel very suspicious about his motives and his ability to manipulate her. She recently decided to meet him without the presence of the social worker owing to his demands to exclude the social worker.

I have asked my partner to minimise contact with him and to have as little face-to-face contact as possible - preferably any such contact should take place in the company of the social worker who has agreed to mediate in the interests of my partner's child. Please let me be clear: I am not in any ways suggesting that there should be no contact between them.

I have no desire to seem possessive or controlling but I am faced with a situation which makes me feel genuinely uncomfortable. I have tried to let her know how difficult this situation is for me - all to no avail.

I genuinely love this woman and know from her and her friends that her life with me has given her so much happiness and reasons for hope. While I have no desire to place any kind of pressure on her, I am feeling deeply uncomfortable about his power over her. What she and her child suffered at his hands was utterly inexcusable and technically criminal.

I feel quite helpless: on the one hand we are about to enter phases of our relationship which suggest that she is completely committed to me, yet his reappearance in her life is something that fills me with foreboding. Any feedback which offers me the best way to cope with this situation personally, while offering her the necessary level of support would be most welcome.

silverbolt

OP be very careful here. abuse victims have scars and sometimes those scars contain hooks that can lead them to go back under the control of the abuser - not relationship wise but open to be manipulated.

People rarely change all that much and this guy will know exactly what buttons to push and when to push them. Which he is currently doing by going through her child.

Can i ask why does the child want to see this person? Have you also considered safety orders/seeing at legal advice?

Nasty pieces of work are certainly that and they get off on power games

Ousia78

Thanks ever so much for the reply. Yes, you are perfectly right regarding the issue of scars leaving her vulnerable. The tragic part for me is knowing (at the risk of sounding arrogant but on the basis of what she and her friends have said) that my partner's progress over the last year has come from the level of safety and protection that I have given her. Her contact with him is necessary yet I am not sure why she is so eager for it to be face-to-face and unmediated at this early stage.

The child was also bullying and manipulating my partner. She could no longer handle that. When she told the child that she would no longer accept it the child went to live with him. I was a witness to how the child behaved towards her - it seems to have been an extension of his treatment. I am also somewhat worried about the child being around him again but I am sure that is a temporary arrangement.

I desire my partner to have the least amount of contact with him, yet she seems determined to suit him in relation to his demands. They had not spoken for quite some time owing to his bitterness at being forced to leave the family home owing to a physical assault on the child.

silverbolt

Ousia78 wrote: »

Thanks ever so much for the reply. Yes, you are perfectly right regarding the issue of scars leaving her vulnerable. The tragic part for me is knowing (at the risk of sounding arrogant but on the basis of what she and her friends have said) that my partner's progress over the last year has come from the level of safety and protection that I have given her. Her contact with him is necessary yet I am not sure why she is so eager for it to be face-to-face and unmediated at this early stage.

The child was also bullying and manipulating my partner. She could no longer handle that. When she told the child that she would no longer accept it the child went to live with him. I was a witness to how the child behaved towards her - it seems to have been an extension of his treatment. I am also somewhat worried about the child being around him again but I am sure that is a temporary arrangement.

I desire my partner to have the least amount of contact with him, yet she seems determined to suit him in relation to his demands. They had not spoken for quite some time owing to his bitterness at being forced to leave the family home owing to a physical assault on the child.

what children see thier parents do, they learn from.

OP my aunt was in a very abusive relationship. she had three children, she now never sees her son (the eldest) as he turned into a mirror of his father and was just as abusive.

You may very well have given her a new breath of life (and you deserve full credit for your patience, love and understanding)

I dont know why she wants it unmediated but i suspect it could be a pride thing. Also she is still quite fragile on the inside, years of abuse take years to deal with properly.

I understand your concern for her and the childs well being but and i dont mean to be harsh here just honest, you are her partner, neither husband nor father. be supportive yes but be careful where the line (for your own sanity) has to be drawn.

Merkin

I'd be concerned at this man's ability to still get under our partners skin to this extent. Unfortunately abusuve patterns can be so difficult to break. Have you asked her WHY she met with him without the social worker?

Ousia78

Yes, I am in a very delicate situation. I certainly don't want to control her in any way nor do I want to jeopardise the situation by revisiting it endlessly. It saddens me to see her being manipulated in any way by the man who inflicted the wounds that have seemingly been healing over the last year. By her own admission, I have cared for her more than anyone else ever has, and he is the one who has cared least. Just over three weeks ago he claimed that he would never want to be in the same room with her again, regardless of circumstances. Now he dictates when, where and how contact will take place.

Regardless of the depth of my love for her and my determination to ensure that her life with me is enriching and to be full of the safety, peace and love that she seems to have never experienced before, I am aware of my limits and the need to protect myself.

Is it unreasonable for me to ask for contact to be kept to a minimum, to be focussed on the child and for it to be primarily by phone? We have come so far, we seem to be so close to experiencing deep and mutual happiness in all that we have planned, yet this situation feels quite intolerable.

Ousia78

@ Merkin: she openly admitted that he did not want the social worker involved. She immediately complied with his wishes.

Big Bag of Chips

Unfortunately OP there's little you can do. My friend left her abusive husband 2 years ago and is now in a lovely relationship with a wonderful man. She too can't believe the difference in the two men and the two relationships. But make no mistake her ex still has a control over her. She tells me she is still afraid of him. She is afraid to do or say something that might upset him (and it doesn't take much!). She's not a fool. She knows he manipulates her. She knows she should be stronger and not let him have this power over her anymore. If only it were that simple. She has no desire to have any contact with him. She wishes he'd just disappear. But, they have children and he uses those children as a way to get at her, control her manipulate her. He sees the children if and when he likes. She has tried to put some formal and regular in place and he has told her that nobody, especially her, will tell him when he can see his children.

Please don't underestimate the pressure your partner is under. She left him, but he is still very much part of her life, and he won't like that she left. So he will do everything he can to make life difficult for her. He's not going to let her walk away and live happily ever after! Hard as it is for you, you need to step back completely. You need to be there to support and advise her when asked. If she doesn't ask, don't.

You need to trust her to handle this in her own time and in her own way. But please don't turn this into a macho war between the 2 men! She's left one abusive controlling man, she doesn't need another one pointing out to her where she's going wrong! I know that is not your intention, and you genuinely come across as someone who wants only the best for her. Unfortunately being with her means having this horrible person in the background who still has a control over her. Even though she doesn't want it, and even though she has made one move by leaving him, there will be old habits and old scars that aren't too easily erased.

He's there. He's never going to be happy for her and wish her well. Best you can do is accept that, and find a way that you as a couple can work through all his BS. She will have to make her own mistakes in dealing with him and hopefully learn from them and move on with a different strategy. All you can do is support her and be patient. He will manipulate her. He will suggest something and if she agrees with it he will change it to something else. He will always move the goalposts. She will figure it out herself. I'm sure she already knows but tries various things "for the quiet life". Just support her. Let her know you love her, and let her know you trust her judgement.

There's nothing you can do about him. There's very little she can do about him either. Men like that are a law unto themselves.

Ousia78

@ Big Bag of Chips (sorry the quote function isn't working for me at the moment):

Thanks ever so much for sharing your personal insights. It's sad to see how common a phenomenon this is.

I have devoted so much time to bringing her through the various crises associated with her marriage breakdown. The marriage had effectively ended many years ago but the issue came to a head with his violent behaviour. Following a year where I have tried (with her wishes) to provide a protective environment and provide her with a sense of her own worth which was almost non-existent following her marriage, it is very painful for me to see her back under his control. In my worst moments I can't help but wonder how far that control will extend. Such fears seem ludicrous and irrational given that she has claimed that in me she has all that she could possibly want from a relationship, yet I totally accept your point about the necessity for me to avoid any hint that I am trying to control her.

We are due to move in together soon and we are hoping to start a family; in all of her words and actions I should be able to accept that she is fully committed to me, yet I cannot help but fear his motives. Up to a few weeks ago he expressed hatred for her, now he has instigated two meetings. Ideally he is trying to be a responsible parent, especially with the social worker monitoring the situation, but he has consistently failed to support my partner in relation to their child.

Acceptance is crucial here for me - I can't force her to do anything nor would I want to, but I would be grateful if she could recognise how difficult this is for me.

Big Bag of Chips

My friend's ex used all the same tactics.
-Never want to see you again.
-Never contact me again, only about the children.
-Never speak to me again

Threats of physical violence. Threats of reporting her to social workers for various made up reasons etc.

Within a couple of hours then he'd be on the phone demanding that she drop the children around to him. Or that she come round so they can talk about arrangements.

He has no interest in arranging anything! He just wants to have control again. He says jump, and she says how high! But it's never high enough!!

Honestly, this is a very intelligent, strong, capable woman and she is reduced to a terrified child regularly by this fella. You can't understand it because you are not like that. It's very difficult for most rational, normal, sane people to understand it, because they just don't know how anybody can behave that way. And as an extension you find it difficult to understand why anyone would tolerate that sort of behaviour.

Just be there for her. Continue to treat her right. That's all she needs for now. She is tied to him for the rest of his life! Nothing will change that, and nothing will change him.

Ousia78

@ Big Bag of Chips:

It's depressing to see how prevalent the issue is. Not for one moment did I hesitate to enter a relationship with this woman even though I knew there were various complications. The relationship itself has been extremely harmonious. One of the greatest joys for me is to see a woman who suffered years of abuse and much sadness smile frequently. The slightest act of affection from me can have her in tears of joy. Because of how much I care about her and her child I feel deep animosity towards him. I am determined not to allow him to affect our relationship. I just wonder if there is anything I can say/do which will make things easier for me. You're perfectly right about what I should do for her. I don't think this contact with him will end well for her or her child but that will not prevent me from giving my all to her.

Big Bag of Chips

For yourself, I think the best you can do is try to train yourself to not be bothered. If you know what he's like, and you pretty much know what to expect from him then you can prepare yourself for the erratic behaviour and arrangements. I don't envy you. I see my friends partner, and I honestly don't know how he has kept his cool. But by keeping his cool and by not letting himself get worked up he is in fact proving that he is everything the ex isn't.

And the ex doesn't like that either

Ousia78

Excellent feedback, Big Bag of Chips. I have quite a challenge on my hands but I love her enough to face it.

Passtheremote

It sounds like she is still very emotionally wrapped up in the ex.

You sound like a very understanding and patient guy, perhaps with a touch of the white knight syndrome.

I'd caution against letting yourself go too much deeper (emotionally and commitment wise) until she has detached from the ex to a much safe level. This is really on her.

daisybelle2008

Ousia78 wrote: »

Hit is very painful for me to see her back under his control. In my worst moments I can't help but wonder how far that control will extend. the necessity for me to avoid any hint that I am trying to control her.


Acceptance is crucial here for me - I can't force her to do anything nor would I want to, but I would be grateful if she could recognise how difficult this is for me.

The dynamic of your relationship is a little off to me. As poster above said 'white knight syndrome'. You have spent a lot of effort on fixing a broken bird (creating dependence on you). If she is not going to act the way you want it is going to frustrate you. Maybe you feel validated on her reliance on your 'safe environment' . Your relationship isn't built on security you don't trust her independence, her reliance on you feels like love to you. This isn't about her ex. Jumping from 'abuser' to 'protector', she maybe needs to be single for a while and find out who she is....if she doesn't know, you definitely don't.

Dial Hard

I have to totally agree with the above two posters, OP. Some of the language you use in your posts raises a lot of flags for me. You seem quite fixated on all the amazing things you've done for her and how she's not responding in a way that you deem appropriate.

I don't know. I'm sure you think your intentions are all completely above board but something is just not sitting right with me.

DukeOfTheSharp

To be honest OP, I'd ignore the junk about you suffering from 'white knight syndrome', you're only stating the facts of your relationship in relation to the situation; that you don't want to control your OH but since you've had such a positive impact on her life, you can't understand why she still meets her abusers demands. Simple fact is, depending on the level of abuse (and from what you describe is sounds outright hellish), she won't be able to shake off his demands that easily. Nor will it be easy for you to sit by and let her make these choices, because you know the dynamic between the two of them, and you're obviously worried. Try to understand that this asshole has done serious damage, and she won't be able to shake it all since they have a child - the ultimate way an abuser exerts power over those they abuse. She'll never fully be able to get away from it, not until the child is 18, and even then, if it's already taking after the father then that's a constant and consistent reminder of him too. This is the nightmare scenario of abuse, and you have to understand one crucial thing: you're not her abusive ex.

Support her, if she asks for your opinion, give it. Don't shy away from difficult topics of conversation, and as much as you can, accept her actions right now as something that is par for the course. But do make it very, very clear that you're not ok with her meeting him without mediation, especially if you're concerned for her safety, and if the situation arises, support the idea of mediation because it's necessary - whether he likes it or not. You're navigating some seriously difficult terrain here OP, nobody has a handbook for what to do, all anyone can tell you is that you need to be there for her. However, if it all gets too much - and it can - you're free to leave. Her personal circumstances aside - which up the threshold for difficult situations immensely - if it all gets too much for you, you have to look out for your own mental health. You're not her therapist, and you won't be to blame for leaving if the going gets too tough...because chances are you'd grow to resent her and that would be a tremendous shame.

silverbolt

daisybelle2008 wrote: »

The dynamic of your relationship is a little off to me. As poster above said 'white knight syndrome'. You have spent a lot of effort on fixing a broken bird (creating dependence on you). If she is not going to act the way you want it is going to frustrate you. Maybe you feel validated on her reliance on your 'safe environment' . Your relationship isn't built on security you don't trust her independence, her reliance on you feels like love to you. This isn't about her ex. Jumping from 'abuser' to 'protector', she maybe needs to be single for a while and find out who she is....if she doesn't know, you definitely don't.

As someone who battled his own somewhat white knight syndrome for years (once i realised i had it) I disagree to an extent.

He's supported not fixed. White knights do - as you say - try to build up a dependance on them (which leads to an abusive situation as the knight is no longer needed once the person is "fixed" so ensure they are never 100%)

The OP is not trying to stop her seeing the ex but failing to understand why she would insist on seeing him. Because he doesnt understand the nature of abuse from people who have been in those relationships.

Treating someone right is not the same as fixing them. And supporting someone is not making them dependant.

Ousia78

Ousia78 wrote: »

We are due to move in together soon and we are hoping to start a family ... Up to a few weeks ago he expressed hatred for her, now he has instigated two meetings

Does he know you plan to move in together? If the answer is yes, it appears obvious his U-turn is related to this and designed to create disharmony between you and, as Big Bag of Chips pointed out, allowing him to do this will mean he wins. Having a disgruntled teenager playing you all off against each other won't help either.

You need to tread very carefully here OP, already you're being diagnosed with White Knight Syndrome when it appears to me that you simply want to protect her and not allow him to destroy what you've built together as well as trying to deal with your genuine fear that he can and will do exactly that if your partner lets him.

I don't think you fearing losing control over your partner, you simply fear losing your partner.

daisybelle2008

silverbolt wrote: »

Treating someone right is not the same as fixing them. And supporting someone is not making them dependant.

I am not sure why anyone that didn't have 'white knight syndrome' would be attracted to going out with someone with no self-esteem and so much messy baggage. It is not an equal balanced relationship. It is the very reason someone out of a messy relationship should be single for a while and learn to be independent and happy with themselves.

She doesn't seem mentally strong enough to operate in a healthy balanced functional relationship. The lady is not an independent person and unfortunately she has been easily controlled and manipulated (ex and child) and seems to be still.

Crying with joy cause you show her a bit of affection is frankly weird and sounds a bit unstable. Not the action of a mentally healthy person who sets high standards for themselves. This is sad (and it is awful what she has been through!) but counselling and independent growth would be healthier for her not another person with an opinion on how she should behave. She is definitely not ready for a relationship, well not a healthy balanced one.
It's going to get much worse OP....for both of you.

And 100% agree with Dial Hard major flags on the language used by the OP.

Ousia78

Thanks to all who replied to my thread and apologies for my present inability to multiquote.

I realise that opinions are divided here already; I have no intention of getting into any debates or justifications regarding my behaviour, but a few clarifications might help.

I have no interest in taking credit for any of the progress she has made over the last year with me - I was simply trying to convey feedback received from her and her friends regarding the extent to which her life has benefited from my presence. The benefits involved have been truly mutual.

If suggesting to her that mediated contact with her abusive ex is deemed to be controlling, so be it. I don't regret making every effort I can to ensure her wellbeing but fully respect her ability to refuse my suggestions.

I could attempt to protect myself by walking away now but we have both come too far as individuals and as a couple for me to take such action lightly.

I am trying to find ways to protect both of us in this situation but I am certainly not interested in indulging in knightly behaviour. This is now taking its toll on me, yet I hold some residual hope that all could be well. Perhaps that hope is futile . . .

Passtheremote

Sometimes it's important to think of your own relationship needs and whether they are being met. Things like loyalty, respect, fun, a bit less drama etc.

It's ok to be a bit selfish when considering whether your own needs are being met. You can be sure that when someone else's aren't you'll soon know about it.

Ousia78

Yes, now more than ever before I feel the need to protect myself but finding ways to do that without distancing myself or appearing less caring is the real challenge.

daisybelle2008

Ousia78 wrote: »

my partner's progress over the last year has come from the level of safety and protection that I have given her.

That’s not where it should come from. It should come from herself with the help of a paid professional not someone she is sleeping with. Problem with all this knightly stuff you are doing is it’s conditional and she is vulnerable, as you say. A fully functional adult doesn’t need ‘safety and protection’ provided to them by a partner, they can do this for themselves! This is manipulative and controlling whether you want to believe it or not. What happens if you split up? She is no longer ‘safe and protected’? Cause she hasn’t learned to act in an independent manner and relies on a boyfriend to provide that. Relying on someone else to feel protected and secure actually makes you very vulnerable to abuse, easily manipulated and insecure. She hasn't ever done the job herself and ironically that is why you are now threatened she is in contact with the ex. and fearful he will manipulate her.

Ousia78 wrote: »

Her contact with him is necessary yet I am not sure why she is so eager for it to be face-to-face and unmediated at this early stage.

I am not sure what you expect from this, you say she was slow and fearful to enter the relationship but you managed to convince her and win her over...hmmm. She is not someone who is able to act with her own agency, she handed over the reins to you and it scares you that she might hand them back to him and give him the control. You don’t trust her to make good choices and you are right, she hasn’t had the independent growth to figure this out for herself. She is vulnerable, easily controlled and manipulated…what way do you expect her to act?

I would recommend you look at yourself in this, i.e your relationship history, understand why you are attracted to providing ‘safety and protection’ to such a vulnerable woman and not in an balanced relationship with a strong confident self assured person. Read this and see if it resonates with you. You come across as very insecure in the relationship and are at pains to prove your worthiness by telling us how much you have rescued her. If the relationship wasn’t so imbalanced and unhealthy you wouldn’t need to do that, a strong foundation would mean that abusive exes wouldn't be popping up and seriously threatening your 'safe space'. All this talk of 'protection' and 'safety' is not the language of a healthy relationship, its very insecure language.

http://www.doctornerdlove.com/2012/01/white-knight-syndrome/all/1/

Colser

Ousia78 wrote:

Yes, now more than ever before I feel the need to protect myself but finding ways to do that without distancing myself or appearing less caring is the real challenge.

Realistically OP can you genuinely see a future for you both where he won't be an issue for her?Hard as it is to believe but she could be still in love with him regardless of what he did to her while still appreciating you and your helpfulness.I'm not being harsh but honestly this could be the way that she will always be regarding him and do you think that you can live like that?

Ousia78

@ Colser: I would be lying if I said I wasn't worried about the possibility that she still has positive feelings for him, but without prompting from me she has made it clear that she sees her future with me. She claims that he is her past and that her contact with him is exclusively based on the parental issues involved. I cannot be entirely sure that that is true but her attempts to show her commitment to me at this stage go consistently beyond words and include chats with his close family regarding her situation with me and her future plans for our relationship. He is also in a new relationship which seems to be progressing very well.

daisybelle2008

Ousia78 wrote: »

@ Colser: I would be lying if I said I wasn't worried about the possibility that she still has positive feelings for him, but without prompting from me she has made it clear that she sees her future with me. She claims that he is her past and that her contact with him is exclusively based on the parental issues involved. I cannot be entirely sure that that is true but her attempts to show her commitment to me at this stage go consistently beyond words and include chats with his close family regarding her situation with me and her future plans for our relationship. He is also in a new relationship which seems to be progressing very well.

Why do you need all this external validation/reassurance from her/other people (his family???) that she is committed to you? why is it even relevant that he is in another relationship?

I don't know if you have had a chance to read this....does any of it resonate in your situation?

By trying to come to her “rescue”, the White Knight is essentially denying that women have agency of their own and have to wait for someone else – the self-declared hero, in this case – to come to her “rescue” and “save” her from all of her troubles.
Similarly, the “chivalrous” code that White Knights frequently adopt is one with very firm roles; the man as the active partner and the woman as the passive one. After all, if the woman had a more active role, she might not need him in the first place. And if she didn’t “need” him, what other reason could she possibly want to keep him around? Of course, therein lies the paradox of the White Knight’s relationship with the object of his affection; despite the “need” of the woman, the White Knight is incredibly needy himself. He needs frequent reassurance from his partner that no, she really does love him, everything’s alright, she appreciates him, etc. etc. More than anything else, the White Knight fears losing her approval – or worse, being abandoned.
For all of the White Knight’s supposed altruism, ultimately the story is all about him. Much like someone with Munchausen by Proxy, the White Knight enjoys the “special”ness that comes with being the caretaker and champion of an afflicted young woman. The woman is essentially a prop in his own story; she’s not a woman so much as a prize.
White Knights are frequently manipulative or even controlling, in the guise of “for her own good”; once again, he needs to maintain his position as champion, caregiver, defender and aide, lest he not only lose the role of “hero” and the sympathy and admiration that comes with it, but the reason for him to be there in the first place. It’s worth noting that White Knights aren’t actively abusive, just passive aggressive and clingy to the point of being almost smothering.
Of course, for all of his championing of the ill girl or emotionally troubled, real life inevitably sets in. As appealing as the fantasy is, the reality is that helping someone with emotional or physical trauma or addiction issues is never easy, simple, pretty or terribly glamorous. It’s messy, it’s ugly and it’s complicated. It means dealing with setbacks – not ones that are suitably-dramatic-but-easily-overcome, but ones that can undo years of work and struggle and devastate people emotionally. A White Knight rarely understands – truly understands – that chronic conditions are often permanent, and being the partner of someone with one means that these entail a lifetime of dealing with them.
When that realization finally sinks in, the addictive rush and thrill of the fantasy start to pale and the reality begins to assert itself. The White Knight then finds himself faced with a choice: abandon the fantasy and deal with the woman as she really is… or make up an excuse and eject himself from the relationship, only to repeat the process again with another suitably “broken bird”.

Ousia78

@ daisybelle:

The prospect of continuing in a relationship which is potentially at the mercy of a man who for almost fifteen years abused the woman involved is not particularly appealing. If I am looking for signs that her commitment to me will override any attachment she may have to him I would hardly consider that unreasonable. However, I can't repeatedly ask for such signs regardless of my needs.

Just to reiterate: I fully accept that her contact with this man will continue for reasons of parental obligation. Insofar as that is the case I am fully supportive of her if that is in the child's best interests. Given his prior treatment of both her and the child I am very doubtful about his intentions.

As for being a white knight, I was not aware of the extent of the abuse that she had suffered or the scars associated with that abuse until our relationship had developed. She was very uncommunicative about such issues at the beginning. As time developed I became increasingly aware of what happened but my feelings for her had deepened too. I chose to stay and I don't regret that decision in any way, yet I am facing an issue which requires much consideration.

Colser

I think you're focusing too much on his actions rather than hers tbh.He s not forcing her to meet him,she's accepting his requests.She had another option and didn't choose it.The fact that the child is 18 should mean that most correspondence between the parents can be done without meeting up ie by phone.She's not really keeping her distance from him OP and I'm guessing that despite what happened between them that she's not fully over him and may never be....something is causing you doubts about her ,do you believe that she could communicate with him without meeting up?

silverbolt

daisybelle2008 wrote: »

That’s not where it should come from. It should come from herself with the help of a paid professional not someone she is sleeping with. Problem with all this knightly stuff you are doing is it’s conditional and she is vulnerable, as you say. A fully functional adult doesn’t need ‘safety and protection’ provided to them by a partner, they can do this for themselves! This is manipulative and controlling whether you want to believe it or not. What happens if you split up? She is no longer ‘safe and protected’? Cause she hasn’t learned to act in an independent manner and relies on a boyfriend to provide that. Relying on someone else to feel protected and secure actually makes you very vulnerable to abuse, easily manipulated and insecure. She hasn't ever done the job herself and ironically that is why you are now threatened she is in contact with the ex. and fearful he will manipulate her.


I am not sure what you expect from this, you say she was slow and fearful to enter the relationship but you managed to convince her and win her over...hmmm. She is not someone who is able to act with her own agency, she handed over the reins to you and it scares you that she might hand them back to him and give him the control. You don’t trust her to make good choices and you are right, she hasn’t had the independent growth to figure this out for herself. She is vulnerable, easily controlled and manipulated…what way do you expect her to act?

I would recommend you look at yourself in this, i.e your relationship history, understand why you are attracted to providing ‘safety and protection’ to such a vulnerable woman and not in an balanced relationship with a strong confident self assured person. Read this and see if it resonates with you. You come across as very insecure in the relationship and are at pains to prove your worthiness by telling us how much you have rescued her. If the relationship wasn’t so imbalanced and unhealthy you wouldn’t need to do that, a strong foundation would mean that abusive exes wouldn't be popping up and seriously threatening your 'safe space'. All this talk of 'protection' and 'safety' is not the language of a healthy relationship, its very insecure language.

http://www.doctornerdlove.com/2012/01/white-knight-syndrome/all/1/

Hang on. - Do you really think that adults dont come with baggage? that we dont all have our own emotional ghosts that can still haunt us? Assuming everything is on the level with that the OP is telling us then he didnt force or manipulate. She was distrustful but he earned her trust. He makes her feel safe. Surely a partner should make you feel safe? Self actualisation is all well and good and part of that is a partner should be able to be vulnerable around thier other half and they cant do that if they dont feel safe

Her abusive ex is popping up in regards to the child she has with him.

as for why he would go out with someone that is vulnerable - does it ever cross your mind that he is attracted to other qualities in her than his need to latch onto a vulnerable woman?

Ousia78 wrote: »

@ daisybelle:

The prospect of continuing in a relationship which is potentially at the mercy of a man who for almost fifteen years abused the woman involved is not particularly appealing. If I am looking for signs that her commitment to me will override any attachment she may have to him I would hardly consider that unreasonable. However, I can't repeatedly ask for such signs regardless of my needs.

Just to reiterate: I fully accept that her contact with this man will continue for reasons of parental obligation. Insofar as that is the case I am fully supportive of her if that is in the child's best interests. Given his prior treatment of both her and the child I am very doubtful about his intentions.
.

Ok OP you cant keep looking for validation from her. She's with you, she has shown/proven this.

leggo

I've been in a similar (slightly less serious) situation to you OP. It's hell. The constant stress and worry that you're being taken for a ride and that the work and emotional commitment you've put into the relationship will be for naught because someone else is controlling your partner and laying ruin to their - and your - life at will is torturous. I know how you feel. People are off the mark implying that there's a latent controlling element to your behaviour. You're saying the same things I felt: the problem is wanting to gain control of your own life and feelings, of not wanting someone you hate (who's done all these horrible things to your partner) to have that power over you as well as your partner. It's perfectly natural and difficult for anyone who hasn't been there to understand.

Eventually, though, you have to step back and accept that this person is the finished product. And it's okay to not want that. You can't, and shouldn't, try to change them, even if you think you're helping. It's their life and their decision to change or not. Of course you can, and should, communicate how their actions and choices make you feel, but what they do with that is up to them and then what you do from there is up to you.

Your choice is to either accept that this is your life and relationship now (and if things happen to change naturally down the line then great, but that's not essential or something you can control) or move on and find someone else without these issues because eventually someone has to look out for what you want, and the other person isn't doing that.

For what it's worth, the best thing that could've happened to me was that relationship ending. My ex needed to go on her journey alone and, in time, I grew much happier in my own life for realising all of this.

Ousia78

I very much appreciate the latest replies. I am very grateful to all of those people who took the time to offer feedback.

I suppose the ultimate issue is as follows:

I am not comfortable with her having contact with him but I cannot stop that contact entirely, nor would I want to given the possible - but not probable - benefits for her child. However, as mentioned above, I would like her to minimise that contact and restrict it as far as possible to non face-to-face conversations. I hope such desires do not sound either unreasonable or controlling.

silverbolt

Ousia78 wrote: »

I very much appreciate the latest replies. I am very grateful to all of those people who took the time to offer feedback.

I suppose the ultimate issue is as follows:

I am not comfortable with her having contact with him but I cannot stop that contact entirely, nor would I want to given the possible - but not probable - benefits for her child. However, as mentioned above, I would like her to minimise that contact and restrict it as far as possible to non face-to-face conversations. I hope such desires do not sound either unreasonable or controlling.

Taken out of context that line can come across as controlling but I know its not meant to be.

I'm afraid OP you have to let her make her own choices. By all means support her and voice your own reservations but ultimately its down to her. she knows (better than you) what hes like. What she does however is up to her

Ousia78

@ silverbolt:

Yes, I totally agree. It's a frustrating situation but I know my limits. What strikes me most is just how common it is for abusers to go on pulling the strings in such situations. It is deeply stressful.

Thanks again for the valuable replies.

daisybelle2008

Ousia78 wrote: »

@ silverbolt:
It's a frustrating situation but I know my limits. What strikes me most is just how common it is for abusers to go on pulling the strings in such situations. It is deeply stressful.

Ousia78 wrote: »

It saddens me to see her being manipulated in any way by the man who inflicted the wounds that have seemingly been healing over the last year.
I am aware of my limits and the need to protect myself.

I absolutely don’t think you do, you seem very naïve. Have you much relationship experience? You keep saying you know your limits , but also you are going to support her no matter what. no matter how bad it gets you are going to stay? You are basically telling us, you don’t care if your needs are met or not and you seem fascinated with this ‘common phenomenon’ you weren’t aware of and now ‘distresses you’. You definitely didn’t go in with your eyes open (neither did she) if that is only just dawning on you especially with this dynamic……

Ousia78 wrote: »

I have devoted so much time to bringing her through the various crises associated with her marriage breakdown.

Red Flag right there..Why would you do that? You are not there to act as this womans shelter/therapist and dumping ground for her issues. It’s ok to have baggage, we all have some, but you need to have a good handle on your own to be any good in a relationship, her baggage is not yours to carry not matter how good it makes you feel to be the hero, it is going to bring you down (it is already). Some may think it is lovely and supportive and you will ‘heal’ her with love, romance and babies and navigation though all her ex crises. But that is not a balanced healthy relationship where your needs are going to be met. And you don’t seem confident enough in your self to call it a day if your needs are not met, all your focus is on her, putting her up on some pedestal, tirelessly building a safe space and building up her self esteem regardless of the price. It sounds exhausting. What about your own needs? I don’t think you know this person at all. You managed to convince her to get in a relationship with you despite her reservations, but you are setting out a stall that your value is only in rescuing her and being the hero. And look you are feeling already, distressed, anxious, frustrated and insecure because you really don’t understand the gravity of the situation you are in.
In future stay well away from people who are not over their ex and definitely don’t sacrifice yourself trying to fix their ‘ex’ issues.
On another note, be careful on a financial note, if you are overinvesting in her financially as much as you are emotionally (which I would say you are) you are going to be left very badly off in every way when it goes completely t*ts up. Emotionally/Financially Insecure people do a lot of damage in relationships where the other person is desperately trying to fill in the gaps (buy their love).
Have you any sensible friends/family who look out for you and can give you some non-romanticised advice? I don’t mean her or her exes friends or family telling you how great you are for her. They do not have your best interests at heart. Go to a counsellor yourself or at least read some of the books on amazon to understand your motivations and the dangers of they are to yourself.

Ousia78

@ daisybelle:

In relation to some of the statements made by me which seem to have generated a number of assumptions, I am far more mindful of the risks involved than you might think. This is not about abstract types - the victim and the white knight - it is about two individuals in a predominantly good relationship facing a very concrete problem which has very recently arisen. Inevitably assumptions will be made about me and the woman involved, but I am certainly not prepared to reveal the personal details which would dispel those assumptions.

No, it is not the case that I will stay no matter how bad it gets, but I am trying to ensure that I set reasonable boundaries for myself that do not involve controlling her. I certainly did not come here expecting or desiring analyses of my personality type or hers; I am simply interested in receiving feedback regarding the best ways to deal with a very specific situation in the most reasonable and caring of ways.

I certainly appreciate your feedback.