The Death (Sale) of TNA ?

Lord TSC

According to the New York Post, both WWE and Sinclair (who own ROH) have offered $40m to buy TNA.

If true, it would be great news for "Have sat at home scratching their holes for the last 10 years before miraculously joining WWE at a high level" AJ Styles, Samoa Joe, Sting, Bobby Roode, Austin Ares etc....

martyos121

I'm going to go out on a limb and say WWE doesn't buy TNA. Ever. Not even 1% of it.

They really, really don't need to. A buyout by Sinclair I could see happening for sure though.

If I end up being wrong, I welcome anyone to quote this and make a fool of me.

jaykhunter

Seems frivolous of WWE to buy TNA, especially at that price; I suppose for the tape library as you mentioned. But WCW was bought for $2.5m. I know that was in 2001 but ROH would be more lucrative - and isn't a dead brand. (i.e. the name TNA is an active turnoff for many, despite the improvements they've made). WWE could get a far better deal! TNA's TV deal is worth NO MONEY - they don't get paid to produce the content. Literally just those tapes but who's gonna watch it on the network?

sky88

I would guess wwe would only want tna's tape library would be able to put out dvds for aj showing his whole career

Bounty Hunter

Invasion 2.0 lead by Broken Matt Hardy who plans to delete Meek Ma Han you say!


40m does seem a little high but I would like if it happened just so WWE could start acknowledging their existence and could do some proper career retrospectives

ERG89

sky88 wrote: »

I would guess wwe would only want tna's tape library would be able to put out dvds for aj showing his whole career

There won't be too many WWE DVDs going forward as they are nearly obsolete in the current wwe with the excessive network & TV shows being genuinely turn offs to some fans which is why they are losing fans quicker than they can gain them.
It isn't worth near 40 but everyone knows buying the tape libraries from ECW and WCW was a very shrewd move by WWE & a total bargain. As badly ran as TNA is Styles & Joe made their names on national TV with TNA, cause if AJ's popularity was down to New Japan they'd be touring the States independently instead of co-promotion. Plenty fans now are happy to see Styles doing well in WWE myself included even if I can't motivate myself to watch Backlash.

brianregan09

To be honest I'd be happy if WWE burned down TNA it has offered nothing of
value in years

ERG89

brianregan09 wrote: »

To be honest I'd be happy if WWE burned down TNA it has offered nothing of
value in years

Still a place that can employ wrestlers who are stuck in a rut like Lashley, EC3, Galloway & Broken Matt Hardy who is very entertaining. Even if he ain't cool it's fun and stands out so much in 2016 a year of bland characters.

Pentecost

Lord TSC wrote: »

According to the New York Post, both WWE and Sinclair (who own ROH) have offered $40m to buy TNA.

If true, it would be great news for "Have sat at home scratching their holes for the last 10 years before miraculously joining WWE at a high level" AJ Styles, Samoa Joe, Sting, Bobby Roode, Austin Ares etc....

To be clear the article said WWE and Sinclair were rumoured to have made bids but the $40m valuation was a pure guess based on WWE's valuation. I can't see Vince going anywhere near that amount.

savemejebus

Pentecost wrote: »

To be clear the article said WWE and Sinclair were rumoured to have made bids but the $40m valuation was a pure guess based on WWE's valuation. I can't see Vince going anywhere near that amount.

I think Meltzer said to take a zero off the figures being bandied about to get the accurate number.

Ageyev

Lord TSC wrote: »

According to the New York Post, both WWE and Sinclair (who own ROH) have offered $40m to buy TNA.

If true, it would be great news for "Have sat at home scratching their holes for the last 10 years before miraculously joining WWE at a high level" AJ Styles, Samoa Joe, Sting, Bobby Roode, Austin Ares etc....

Nonsense figure. They got WCW for about $2.5m which they have made a lot on via DVD sales and online. It's not worth $4m, maybe $400,000 for the name and if they can get the rather useless TV slot but even still. Dixie's folks might hold out but it'd be a fools game, like trying to make money on a WWE DVD collection on adverts because you spent €2grand on it.

I hope WWE buy it for the library, that said, there's no hope the TNA footage would make it to the network before 2035.

Ageyev

Pentecost wrote: »

To be clear the article said WWE and Sinclair were rumoured to have made bids but the $40m valuation was a pure guess based on WWE's valuation. I can't see Vince going anywhere near that amount.

Why would WWE enter a bid with a competitor!? $4m for both ROH and TNA sounds optimistic.

Mr.Nice Guy

4 million for the tape library would be a pretty good deal I reckon. There's some great matches in there (Unbreakable triple threat match springs to mind) and plenty of content that could be added to DVDs. If/when Kurt Angle comes back into the fold, his matches there would be of use for example). Of if they want to do DVDs in future on Styles or Roode.

I don't want Broken Matt to become OBSOLETE though. His career must continue to be documented.

(Honestly I want Broken Matt in WWE at some stage. Best character in wrestling now by far).

Monokne

$4 million is the figure Dixie is looking for to get out. It's always hard to place a valuation on a company that essentially has no assets, no way to turn a profit, and a negative brand equity, but if with their marketing machine behind it, it feels like WWE would not find it too difficult to monetize that library and make their money back times two just using the footage they'd have on Angle, Styles, and Sting alone.

I am bemused by the intense reactions TNA gets from some people. The people treating the idea that the TNA library will be on the network as ludicrous - any reason why? It's well produced weekly HD content featuring many of their stars. It's not going to mean huge things for the network but it's certainly of value. Why wouldn't they want it? Because the shows weren't great?

Then you have someone who said WWE will never own TNA, not even 1% of it. Did you think for half a second before writing that? TNA is never going to turn a profit. They've been on the decline for years and the brand is deader than dead. Where did the tape libraries for every other dead promotion end up? Once you've answered all those questions, ask yourself where the TNA tape library will most likely end up.

And then my favourite, the person who said TNA has offered nothing of value in years. If you haven't watched their product and you make it PAINFULLY obvious, why are you commenting? What are you adding? Are you just in here to prove you're cool because you can knock TNA? I rarely watch the show and I have zero faith left in the brand but I still have the decency to evaluate what they produce on its merit rather than just making blanket ignorant statement.

Ageyev

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

4 million for the tape library would be a pretty good deal I reckon

Nope. Not in the streaming era. Not even in the DVD era was it a good number. TNA as an initial is almost as good as junk. People need to get real.

Monokne

The Goldberg DVD sold 74,000 copies in its first month in 2014, and more than 100,000 copies all in. Last year they shipped 150,000 copies of Wrestlemania. If we say, conservatively, WWE is making 5 bucks a pop, that's between $3.5 and $5 million dollars. Even if you have that, that's 2 - 2.5 mill. And you genuinely, when you sit and pause and reflect for a minute don't think that with MORE THAN A DECADE of footage AJ Styles, Kurt Angle, Sting, Foley, Booker T, Flair, Samoa Joe, Kevin Nash, Chrisian can ship enough units to make 4 million measly dollars? Seriously, when you sit and do the maths, that's what you think?


It is genuinely baffling to me when people filter the world through their own biases. I wouldn't pay a penny for a Goldberg DVD and I'd saw my own arm off before I'd pay to see an Adam Sandler movie but I'm not sitting here suggesting they shouldn't be produced just because I hate them. There are other people in the world, I am aware of that.

beakerjoe

15 years ago WCW was sold for 2 million bucks, which included talent contracts and an arguably more valuable tape library. 4 million these days for TNA is a ridiculous number.

Chain Smoker

Four million is too high but people bringing up wcw's price as if that was it's actual value at the time are way off. WWE got it extremely cheaply because AOL wanted it offloaded ASAP with absolutely no thought put into the assets they were selling off with it. Honestly the deal happened so fast and was so low I doubt even Vince put any thought into the value of the tape libraries and just wanted the ego trip.

WCW was worth way more for the tape libraries by themselves, let alone the pretty strong chance of being able to get the brand on some kind of reasonably well recognised network still.

ERG89

Did WWE take over WCWs debt or pay those contracts so many of the higher earning guys sat on?

Chain Smoker

ERG89 wrote: »

Did WWE take over WCWs debt or pay those contracts so many of the higher earning guys sat on?

Nope, all the higher paid guys were on AOL's dime. Booker T took a huge paycut to switch over.
WWE basically bought the name, their archive and had the option of keeping on whoever wasn't on an aol guaranteed contact.

spektorfive

Meltzer says about a million for the tape Library. You know the WWE will want to just make "The Fall of TNA". Where they get all the talents to crap on Dixie and say how great the WWE is.

ricero

spektorfive wrote: »

Meltzer says about a million for the tape Library. You know the WWE will want to just make "The Fall of TNA". Where they get all the talents to crap on Dixie and say how great the WWE is.

I'd buy that for a dollar

Chain Smoker

spektorfive wrote: »

Meltzer says about a million for the tape Library. You know the WWE will want to just make "The Fall of TNA". Where they get all the talents to crap on Dixie and say how great the WWE is.

Why on earth would he waste any time attacking Dixie when he could be using that time to pick on jarrett!

Agent Coulson

ricero wrote: »

I'd buy that for a dollar

$9.99 :pac:

PTH2009

spektorfive wrote: »

Meltzer says about a million for the tape Library. You know the WWE will want to just make "The Fall of TNA". Where they get all the talents to crap on Dixie and say how great the WWE is.

Titled WWE: TNA Zero Impact

Monokne

spektorfive wrote: »

Meltzer says about a million for the tape Library. You know the WWE will want to just make "The Fall of TNA". Where they get all the talents to crap on Dixie and say how great the WWE is.

Important to note that this is based on what they generally offer for tape libraries, which is $500 per hour. I can see them paying more for full HD content featuring many of their current starts who they can market and sell footage based on than they would pay for mid south footage which (rightly or wrongly) they perceive to be less marketable. The way they've run their network has made it apparent that anything outside WCW and ECW is very low priority. In spite of the stink on TNA, it cannot be denied there is hundreds of hours of classic Joe, Styles, Sting, Roode and Angle matches which have to be of some value to them.

Then again, it's WWE, so maybe they'll just stick to their modus operandi and offer 500 per hour.

Lord TSC

Meltzer on WOR says WWE back in the running to buy TNA.

"So… We still don’t have a deal. And time is running out. There’s no money to fund this week’s television and PPV. Um, WWE is back in the picture, which is a really interesting thing because with WWE in the picture, it could be over. And, you know, Dixie could sell to whoever she wants to sell too and I guess it’s become very complicated. Billy Corgan talked to ESPN and said, you know, he wanted to buy it but...and he’s got the money to buy it but its a complicated thing.. and he talked like it’s a deal that would take weeks to put together. And they don’t got weeks. They got like…I talked to somebody there and its essentially.. they got until Friday because that’s the last business day before Sunday. They can’t really, you know, get everything to the bank and get the money in and all that and be ready on a Sunday. It’s just not going to work. So they got a couple days to get this deal done.

Billy Corgan has also said that if he buys the company, he is changing the name of the company which, quite frankly, I would do. Just the feeling, it’s a tainted brand name and it’s just better to start with something else. Um, I would like to give it a little facelifting and get it out of Orlando, but, you know, financially, the last time they got out of Orlando, it cost them so much money that it really wasn’t worth it. And you know, they are really high on the Hardy’s thing. But everyday, you know, there’s talks going on, stuff going on and uh there’s not a lot of time.

If they sell to WWE, they are pretty much done. It’s pretty much it. You know, WWE would buy the tape library and um… there’s so much there because one of the complicated things is all the debt. There’s millions of dollars that there in the hole right now. There’s more in the hole than it would cost to buy the company. So, that make’s it real complicated. There's people who might be willing to buy the company. It’s like if Billy or Aerolux, let’s just say one of them buys it. Well, the other one would have to, you know, buy the company from Dixie for whatever it is but they are also going to have to pay the other one, the money that they put in for all those TV’s, not to mention all the other money for god knows what is still owed… wrestlers that might be behind.. whatever.. there’s so much.. its like.. its not an easy deal. Last week, I was talking to somebody from the outside, and my feeling is because the time situation, that's not happening. That deal is not happening in 4 days. With WWE, that's not as difficult because you’re just selling the tape library. With WWE, everyone would lose their job. Well, not everyone. They would take some wrestlers but the company would be done though."

Lithium93_

Seems like it's a matter of when the TNA ship sinks so to speak.

Ben Gadot

I think the whole Vinnie wants the library argument is being overstated at this point.

I assume he couldn't just buy the library and would also have to saddle the debt and contracts that he's no interest in fulfilling in a lot of cases.

Would he be willing to do all that just so he'll have a couple of documentaries covered years down the line?

Chain Smoker

Dont understand why there's a price tag on it at all considering the debt. It should be a choice of whether Corgan et al want the company and will accept the losses or if WWE will cover the losses.


They'll find the money from somewhere for the PPV, and then it's chaos.

Chain Smoker

Ben Gadot wrote: »

I think the whole Vinnie wants the library argument is being overstated at this point.

I assume he couldn't just buy the library and would also have to saddle the debt and contracts that he's no interest in fulfilling in a lot of cases.

Would he be willing to do all that just so he'll have a couple of documentaries covered years down the line?

If I was moderately well off and that tape library was available, I'd be tempted to buy it just to have it. Having moderately well shot footage of a lot of big name performers would be a big help to people wanting to use wrestling footage without dealing with WWE.
There'd potentially be a nice bit to make from that really.


Don't see why Vince would bother being saddled with all that debt though.

DM_7

Can't see them buying the company as a whole. They could buy just the tape library and some contracts I guess.

Maybe Jericho will buy it.

LeeJM

Yep as stated Vince may just buy the library and the company can die for all he cares. TNA as a brand is less than worthless. If the PPV happens live on Sunday it may be a minor miracle. This time next week TNA wrestling likely will be out of business.

Monokne

Chain Smoker wrote: »

Dont understand why there's a price tag on it at all considering the debt. It should be a choice of whether Corgan et al want the company and will accept the losses or if WWE will cover the losses.


They'll find the money from somewhere for the PPV, and then it's chaos.

The price tag on the company is based on the tape library, the roster and most importantly, the TV deals. The Sony Six India and Challenge UK deals are worth a couple million bucks a year and given the dearth of channels paying for wrestling content in 2016, those would be worthwhile to someone. Given they still don't earn enough to turn a profit and they make nothing from their US TV deal, it still wouldn't make sense to me if someone paid for the company, but the TV deals are essentially what they'd be buying.

Where WWE may step in here is identical to what happened with WCW. If no one puts the money in to keep TNA afloat and do the tapings and PPV ($600 - 800k is the number Meltzer quoted) then the company are in breach on their TV deals and Sony Six and Challenge, who may already have misgivings about the quality and ratings TNA brings in 2016, could cancel them. With no TV deals, there's no value. Vince buys the tape library.

johnnyryan89

Monokne wrote: »

The price tag on the company is based on the tape library, the roster and most importantly, the TV deals. The Sony Six India and Challenge UK deals are worth a couple million bucks a year and given the dearth of channels paying for wrestling content in 2016, those would be worthwhile to someone. Given they still don't earn enough to turn a profit and they make nothing from their US TV deal, it still wouldn't make sense to me if someone paid for the company, but the TV deals are essentially what they'd be buying.

Where WWE may step in here is identical to what happened with WCW. If no one puts the money in to keep TNA afloat and do the tapings and PPV ($600 - 800k is the number Meltzer quoted) then the company are in breach on their TV deals and Sony Six and Challenge, who may already have misgivings about the quality and ratings TNA brings in 2016, could cancel them. With no TV deals, there's no value. Vince buys the tape library.

Would the TV deals be worth anything to WWE, even if it was to show something like NXT on Sony Six and Challenge. British wrestling seems to be on the rise and WWE seems to be willing to do work with some of the smaller independent companies such as Rev Pro and Progress Wrestling. Plus they've always wanted to break into the Indian market.

Itssoeasy

So if TNA is in such bad shape and if you believe meltzer is on its last legs then how does that effect Cody and Brandi Rhodes who I'm assuming have signed contracts with tna for money ?

sky88

Itssoeasy wrote: »

So if TNA is in such bad shape and if you believe meltzer is on its last legs then how does that effect Cody and Brandi Rhodes who I'm assuming have signed contracts with tna for money ?

the whole situation is just strange cause supposadly a lotof the wrestlers havent being paid in a couple of months eithier yet they bring them two in.

hufpc8w3adnk65

How much is TNA for sale for and how much is the debt?


Mad to think that when they had Hogan Hall Nash Angle Sting Bishoff etc they were fine and years later they are to hit the wall with 1 or 2 stars only

the groutch

that was the problem though.
they invested so much time/money in the old fogies, and didn't make enough of an effort to try make superstars of the young guys.

Imnotthehulk

Speaking out of pure ignorance .... would any of the Ring Ka King brand be included in the purchase of TNA?

beakerjoe

Imnotthehulk wrote: »

Speaking out of pure ignorance .... would any of the Ring Ka King brand be included in the purchase of TNA?

Realistically, Id say yes, but god knows to be honest. If a deal is done and if the details are made public, then and only then can you be certain of exactly what and what isn’t purchased. But by all means, anything that is owned by TNA is potentially up for grabs.

Chain Smoker

the groutch wrote: »

that was the problem though.
they invested so much time/money in the old fogies, and didn't make enough of an effort to try make superstars of the young guys.

Pretty sure Spike both pushed for and significantly funded a lot of the old dudes.

Russo's whole run preventing them from being able to make any use of the old guys followed by the disastrous Hogan/Bischoff run (primarily their insistance that everything was always the fault of not being live, then not being on the road, then not being live on the road...) left them dead. They've been beyond having any hope since 2011, artificially propped up for a year or two by Spike's Bellator plans.
Hell, it was always Spike, that's the only thing that propped it up from being some kind of short term vanity project for Dixie Carter.



By the time TNA actually appeared to try and show an interest in getting some new guys over, Spike had absolutely no faith in them doing so and most of their best non-WWE talent had been beaten into complacency anyway.

Monokne

johnnyryan89 wrote: »

Would the TV deals be worth anything to WWE, even if it was to show something like NXT on Sony Six and Challenge. British wrestling seems to be on the rise and WWE seems to be willing to do work with some of the smaller independent companies such as Rev Pro and Progress Wrestling. Plus they've always wanted to break into the Indian market.

WWE has exclusive deals so they couldn't put WWE branded programming on those channels.

Monokne

the groutch wrote: »

that was the problem though.
they invested so much time/money in the old fogies, and didn't make enough of an effort to try make superstars of the young guys.

Panda funded them for years. They were so far in the hole in the early years, the number that floated was $40 million. They did turn a profit in 2009 but then they brought in Hogan, Foley, Bischoff, Nash, Hall, Venis, X Pac, Nastys, Flair, Hardys etc and blew up their payroll and went back to big losses. The last big roll of the dice was in 2013 when they taped on the road, doing two shows in one night in front of crowds of 1 - 2,000 in big arenas. This cost them $650k a shot, which over the year was about $17 million. At that point, Panda stopped funding them, then Spike cancelled them and it's been a slow, painful death ever since.

jaykhunter

Pretty regularly we get reports of TNA at death's door. I've never seen such a resilient wrestling company -- nobody's ever survived TV cancellation (WCW, ECW) but TNA have done it twice. It's nothing short of incredible. I've no doubt they'll put another rabbit out of the hat. I won't believe they're done until Shane McMahon shows up in the iMPACT zone :pac:

Monokne

jaykhunter wrote: »

Pretty regularly we get reports of TNA at death's door. I've never seen such a resilient wrestling company -- nobody's ever survived TV cancellation (WCW, ECW) but TNA have done it twice. It's nothing short of incredible. I've no doubt they'll put another rabbit out of the hat. I won't believe they're done until Shane McMahon shows up in the iMPACT zone :pac:

The rabbits they've pulled thus far have been "Go further into debt" and "Go further AND further into debt". Given that, they can just keep pulling them.

Chain Smoker

It has been get further into debt with people who have an interest in buying the company. No one else would dare give them a cent sure.
One of those two groups will stump up the money for the PPV, beyond that Dixie is gonna have to make a move.



She seems like a staggeringly inept business person, doesn't she?

PTH2009

how many TNA guys will WWE take if they buy the company ???

ShagNastii

Haven't given the slightest toss about TNA for a long time. At a time, I could've argued they were the best company in wrestling (time when Daniels/AJ/Joe were at their finest). But know it's just cringe compatible to WWE. It's such a pity.

When a guy coming off a long as a part of 3MB is your brand new main event hope you know you are in the toilet.

With the indies booming it surely is only a matter of time before TNA is dead n buried. Why would a talent go to TNA outside of a decent payday(which is no longer on the today).

On Vince, I'd say he hadn't even thought about TNA. With WCW they were massive at many stages and no doubt WWE had one eye on the competition. I think that TNA were never at Monday Nitro levels of concern to vince et el.

Chain Smoker

ShagNastii wrote: »

On Vince, I'd say he hadn't even thought about TNA. With WCW they were massive at many stages and no doubt WWE had one eye on the competition. I think that TNA were never at Monday Nitro levels of concern to vince et el.

It's easy to say this and that's defiitely the narrative that is being pushed, but I think it underestimates Vince's paranoia and pettiness hugely.

There's a reason they didn't entertain signing "TNA original" talent for years and years despite some of them being f*cking great.
There's a reason they never ever ever to this day acknowledge TNA in anything.
There's a reason they pulled the gun on the Bret Hart return to Raw the same night Hogan debuted on Impact despite it being really several weeks too early to launch into a Wrestlemania build (as was reflected by how convoluted and ****e that build became).

Monokne

ShagNastii wrote: »

Haven't given the slightest toss about TNA for a long time. At a time, I could've argued they were the best company in wrestling (time when Daniels/AJ/Joe were at their finest). But know it's just cringe compatible to WWE.

Their shows are actually really good for the most part at the moment. Brand is so damaged that it doesn't matter anyway, but wanted to point it out for balance.