€890 pcm for a garden flat in Drimnagh!

Idbatterim

the boom isnt back, this is worse than the boom! €890 for this?! In Drimnagh in Dublin?! Christ London is meant to be expensive, one is a world city with worldclass transport, architecture, culture, museums, theatre, shopping etc. T
he other doesnt have a transport network and the joke that is temple bar and the guinness factory, are probably our biggest tourist attractions...

article below!


http://www.independent.ie/opinion/comment/the-housing-market-is-only-going-to-get-worse-the-time-i-viewed-a-1k-onebed-garden-flat-in-dublin-35083812.html

Baby01032012

Idbatterim wrote: »

the boom isnt back, this is worse than the boom! €890 for this?! In Drimnagh in Dublin?! Christ London is meant to be expensive, one is a world city with worldclass transport, architecture, culture, museums, theatre, shopping etc. T
he other doesnt have a transport network and the joke that is temple bar and the guinness factory, are probably our biggest tourist attractions...

article below!


http://www.independent.ie/opinion/comment/the-housing-market-is-only-going-to-get-worse-the-time-i-viewed-a-1k-onebed-garden-flat-in-dublin-35083812.html

€990 pm as they require €100 for utilities. I'm sure they are claiming rent a room relief too. Doesn't meet minimum standards or rent a room criteria for that matter.

TOEJOE

Is it possible to get planning permission for a flat like this in a back garden? Housing crisis sorted!!!!!!!

ArtyC

There's a thread in after hours about funny houses/ flats to rent . It used to be funny, now with such a shortage it's just depressing because People are renting these out....

Gumbo

TOEJOE wrote: »

Is it possible to get planning permission for a flat like this in a back garden? Housing crisis sorted!!!!!!!

No. it is a breach of at least 2 planning conditions.
That is a garden shed, nothing more. You are not allowed to habitats the shed.

If someone was to report this to Planning enforcement, it would be swiftly enforced.

Lux23

The agent showing this flat should have their licence revoked (well if such a thing exists, I doubt it does).

martinn123

kceire wrote: »

No. it is a breach of at least 2 planning conditions.
That is a garden shed, nothing more. You are not allowed to habitats the shed.

If someone was to report this to Planning enforcement, it would be swiftly enforced.

I guess the Planning Dept. don't read the Independent.

Gumbo

martinn123 wrote: »

I guess the Planning Dept. don't read the Independent.

The planning department cannot act on it. Only Planning Enforcement section can act on breaches of the planning legislation. And they can only act when they receive a complaint in writing/email/fax etc

It's the same over on facebook. People giving out about it but when you mention it to them to report it they say agh no. Then what's the point of complaining about it if your not prepared to report it.

Gumbo

Lux23 wrote: »

The agent showing this flat should have their licence revoked (well if such a thing exists, I doubt it does).

It's not up to the agent to ensure the unit is planning compliant or up to the required standard. That's the home owners responibility.

martinn123

kceire wrote: »

The planning department cannot act on it. Only Planning Enforcement section can act on breaches of the planning legislation. And they can only act when they receive a complaint in writing/email/fax etc

It's the same over on facebook. People giving out about it but when you mention it to them to report it they say agh no. Then what's the point of complaining about it if your not prepared to report it.

Therin lies the problem, with the way the system works

It's been reported in a newspaper, with photo's, and a link to the Estate Agents advert, no doubt, but unless some official, in the correct office receives a complaint, in writing, nothing will be done.
Probably the same with Revenue, let's all assume this guy is making the correct tax returns, sure if not, so what.

Lux23

kceire wrote: »

It's not up to the agent to ensure the unit is planning compliant or up to the required standard. That's the home owners responibility.

I think any agent with an ounce of common sense should understand that showing a kip like this would be very damaging to their reputation.

If the agent showing this place was asked if it was up to code, how do you think they would answer?

loup

Is this removed from Daft? I cant see it under the flats for rent in Drimnagh. I was going to email the agent to complain. How can a garden shed be habitable?

h57xiucj2z946q

loup wrote: »

Is this removed from Daft? I cant see it under the flats for rent in Drimnagh. I was going to email the agent to complain. How can a garden shed be habitable?

Was took down. It was here: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://www.daft.ie/dublin/flats-for-rent/drimnagh/91-kilworth-road-drimnagh-dublin-1677625/

Gumbo

martinn123 wrote: »

Therin lies the problem, with the way the system works

It's been reported in a newspaper, with photo's, and a link to the Estate Agents advert, no doubt, but unless some official, in the correct office receives a complaint, in writing, nothing will be done.
Probably the same with Revenue, let's all assume this guy is making the correct tax returns, sure if not, so what.

Why don't you make the complaint?
No point morning about it?

And it's for a very good reason that planning enforcement and the planning department act separately. Can you imagine the conflict of interest of a enforcement officer arguing that you need planning, and then when you lodge planning, that same officer gets to decide on whether you get planning or not....

No way should the system be altered. It works perfectly as it is tbh
Can't blame the system for people's laziness of not reporting the issue.

martinn123

kceire wrote: »

Why don't you make the complaint?
No point morning about it?


No way should the system be altered. It works perfectly as it is tbh
Can't blame the system for people's laziness of not reporting the issue.

My complaint is with the system, not this particular shed in Drimnagh.

So the system '' works perfectly'' I don't think so, if officials are prepared to ignore evidence such as this article, and sit on their hands until a complaint is lodged

And it's for a very good reason that planning enforcement and the planning department act separately. Can you imagine the conflict of interest of a enforcement officer arguing that you need planning, and then when you lodge planning, that same officer gets to decide on whether you get planning or not....

My sincere apologies, in my post I used the phrase Planning Dept. and not Planning Enforcement, a grave mistake on my part ( are they is the same building )

Graham

Lux23 wrote: »

I think any agent with an ounce of common sense should understand that showing a kip like this would be very damaging to their reputation.

+1

you would have to seriously question the professional standards of any letting agent that agreed to put a garden shed on their books.

I know it's not the agents job to double check planning but the scope for reputational damage should be more than enough to make most agents walk away.

Gumbo

martinn123 wrote: »

My complaint is with the system, not this particular shed in Drimnagh.

So the system '' works perfectly'' I don't think so, if officials are prepared to ignore evidence such as this article, and sit on their hands until a complaint is lodged



My sincere apologies, in my post I used the phrase Planning Dept. and not Planning Enforcement, a grave mistake on my part ( are they is the same building )

No point not picking at a system that works.
You think we should be paying for inspectors to drive the streets all day long looking for planning irregularities?

How would you have the system work?
How many staff do you think you would need?

martinn123

kceire wrote: »

No point not picking at a system that works.
You think we should be paying for inspectors to drive the streets all day long looking for planning irregularities?

Not suggesting that at all

How would you have the system work?
How many staff do you think you would need?

In this case one, to follow up on what is pretty irrefutable evidence of a breach of regulations, together with supporting evidence by way of photographs, and the words of the reporter.
Rather that sit around waiting for a complaint.

kceire

kceire wrote: »

No. it is a breach of at least 2 planning conditions.
That is a garden shed, nothing more. You are not allowed to habitats the shed.

If someone was to report this to Planning enforcement, it would be swiftly enforced.

As a general comment as opposed to this one in particular, is reporting things for planning etc really a great thing to be doing in the current climate as every place that gets reported presumably goes off the market thus further reducing the number of available places to live for people.

intheclouds

Thread title should be changed to "garden shed" rather than "garden flat".

combines Kitchen/Living/Bedroom Area with Shower Room.

Grim, just grim. And very sad that some poor schmuck will end up paying nearly 1k a month for it.

Graham

Haven Fit Gopher wrote: »

As a general comment as opposed to this one in particular, is reporting things for planning etc really a great thing to be doing in the current climate as every place that gets reported presumably goes off the market thus further reducing the number of available places to live for people.

I can see your point but I'm not convinced overlooking the conversion of garden sheds to residential accommodation is the right solution to the current housing supply issues.

Gumbo

martinn123 wrote: »

Not suggesting that at all



In this case one, to follow up on what is pretty irrefutable evidence of a breach of regulations, together with supporting evidence by way of photographs, and the words of the reporter.
Rather that sit around waiting for a complaint.

I don't think anyone would be sitting around. Plan Enf section would be flat out busy and you've got to remember they don't have access to facebook, independent news site or boards.ie.

Haven Fit Gopher wrote: »

As a general comment as opposed to this one in particular, is reporting things for planning etc really a great thing to be doing in the current climate as every place that gets reported presumably goes off the market thus further reducing the number of available places to live for people.

In this case, it's a garden shed. My opinion is that it should be took off the market.

intheclouds

Haven Fit Gopher wrote: »

As a general comment as opposed to this one in particular, is reporting things for planning etc really a great thing to be doing in the current climate as every place that gets reported presumably goes off the market thus further reducing the number of available places to live for people.

Its not an available place for someone to live though. Its a garden shed. It is not a habitable property.

intheclouds

intheclouds wrote: »

It is not a habitable property.

How so? Its not ideal (far from it) and its a crazy price but if it was up at 400 euro a month I don't think it would have gotten any attention at all. At least its newly done up, I've seen houses in much worse condition. The lack of a proper cooker is an issue alright in fairness.

I wouldn't live in it but I'm sure there are worse places (that are meeting planning conditions) out there to live.

intheclouds

Haven Fit Gopher wrote: »

How so? Its not ideal (far from it) and its a crazy price but if it was up at 400 euro a month I don't think it would have gotten any attention at all. At least its newly done up, I've seen houses in much worse condition. The lack of a proper cooker is an issue alright in fairness.

I wouldn't live in it but I'm sure there are worse places (that are meeting planning conditions) out there to live.

If you cant see why a garden shed isnt a habitable property I havent really got any way to explain to you why it isnt.

pilly

I think we're all getting a bit up ourselves here, a lot of people homeless at the moment would be delighted to live in such a place. It looks clean, dry and warm. NOT worth a €1000 a month granted but it's no dump.

intheclouds

pilly wrote: »

I think we're all getting a bit up ourselves here, a lot of people homeless at the moment would be delighted to live in such a place. It looks clean, dry and warm. NOT worth a €1000 a month granted but it's no dump.

Its a shed. How is it going to stand up to weather and habitation?

If a homeless person wanted to shelter in it temporarily for free Id have no problem, but I would still consider them homeless and in need of housing.

The context here is it is being offered for almost 1k a month - not as a free homeless shelter.

My car is clean, dry and warm, but its not a habitable solution to anything.

Graham

pilly wrote: »

I think we're all getting a bit up ourselves here, a lot of people homeless at the moment would be delighted to live in such a place. It looks clean, dry and warm. NOT worth a €1000 a month granted but it's no dump.

Where do you draw the line at which planning laws we should ignore?

What happens when the house next door to you is converted into bedsits and 6 garden sheds apartments appear in the back garden?

ZeroThreat

Graham wrote: »

Where do you draw the line at which planning laws we should ignore?

What happens when the house next door to you is converted into bedsits and 6 garden sheds apartments appear in the back garden?

I know several other places in the D12 area where what you described has happened.

pilly

There is a company called Gardenrooms.ie that put in what look like garden sheds but are much bigger, fully insulated etc. and I've seen some used as granny flats.

I'm merely saying, as another poster has mentioned I've seen an awful lot worse places to live that would meet the description of studio flat, filthy, horrible, dark smelly places. I would prefer this shed to one of them.

pilly

It's not strictly a "shed" either, it is concrete built with two good quality windows and a big door on it.

Graham

pilly wrote: »

There is a company called Gardenrooms.ie that put in what look like garden sheds but are much bigger, fully insulated etc. and I've seen some used as granny flats.

I'm merely saying, as another poster has mentioned I've seen an awful lot worse places to live that would meet the description of studio flat, filthy, horrible, dark smelly places. I would prefer this shed to one of them.

So you'd be ok if your immediate neighbours decided to go down the private-enterprise shanty town route?

intheclouds

pilly wrote: »

There is a company called Gardenrooms.ie that put in what look like garden sheds but are much bigger, fully insulated etc. and I've seen some used as granny flats.

I'm merely saying, as another poster has mentioned I've seen an awful lot worse places to live that would meet the description of studio flat, filthy, horrible, dark smelly places. I would prefer this shed to one of them.

If they are to be used as granny flats they must apply to the local authority for planning permission.

I saw a similar thing to this being advertised on FB (it wasnt garden rooms which do state on their website that you need planning permission if you are going to use one of their rooms to live in), and he was dismissing comments of planning permission.

Im sure such a room as the advertised in this thread doesnt comply with fire safety, environmental safety etc...

Gmol

It's definitely worth it, there's a candle on the table, a candle!!
only thing holding it back is the lack of space for a Crying chair

pilly

Oh it's hardly shanty town Graham! That's exactly what I mean by up ourselves. I think if any of you guys had ever been homeless you might be more accepting of what's suitable as accommodation. I'm starting to believe the whole "snowflake" rumours. Hard times call for hard measures.

Graham

Gmol wrote: »

only thing holding it back is the lack of space for a Crying chair

it's in the shed apartment next door with the washing machine

intheclouds

I notice your washer/dryer is in a small wooden shed next to the main shed that youd be living in.

intheclouds

pilly wrote: »

Oh it's hardly shanty town Graham! That's exactly what I mean by up ourselves. I think if any of you guys had ever been homeless you might be more accepting of what's suitable as accommodation. I'm starting to believe the whole "snowflake" rumours. Hard times call for hard measures.

So you reckon I could put up 6 of these and charge <mod snip > families 1k per month each to live in them in my back garden?

Sounds a bit...........slumlordy.

Gmol

intheclouds wrote: »

I notice your washer/dryer is in a small wooden shed next to the main shed that youd be living in.

Split level apartment with appliances convienently located separately from the main dwelling

ted1

intheclouds wrote: »

I notice your washer/dryer is in a small wooden shed next to the main shed that youd be living in.

I put my dryer in a shed at the end of the garden. Safer than having it in the house. Dryers are cause of many house fires.

Graham

intheclouds wrote: »

I notice your washer/dryer is in a small wooden shed next to the main shed that youd be living in.

Exempted development on the exempted development?

pilly

No-one said a family could live in one of these but 1 person certainly could.
<mod snip >

intheclouds

intheclouds wrote: »

Its a shed. How is it going to stand up to weather and habitation?

Its not a timber garden shed that you would buy in woodies though, its a concrete build shed that is not going to fall down any more than the house is going to fall down. It might not be the best insulated but probably no worse than houses build of the same era (if its dry lined its probably the same as an older house).

Not sure of what you mean by "stand up to habitation really" as again it looks like a solid structure that's done up to a reasonable standard. The main issue is the price, if it was 400 euro a month or even 500euro and had a proper cooker I'm sure there are plenty of people who would prefer live there than house share.

JPF82

Imagine how living there would be bad for your mental health. Want family or friends to visit. No point. Can't have them over for dinner. No proper cooking facilities. Can't fit them in the house either. Just ridiculous that this would be considered OK to advertise by anyone, let alone an estate agent.

Graham

<mod snip>

Typically its vulnerable/low income groups including immigrants that end up stuck with the sort of sub-standard accommodation you're arguing should be permitted.

What example would have worked for you?

dr.fuzzenstein

kceire wrote: »

No point not picking at a system that works.
You think we should be paying for inspectors to drive the streets all day long looking for planning irregularities?

How would you have the system work?
How many staff do you think you would need?

Ahm, shouldn't inspectors, you know, ahm, inspect, and stuff? That, erm, would be, like, their job and sh*t?
Let me tell you how the Irish "system" works. Builder builds shoddy sh*teheap, "inspector' rubber stamps it from his office without looking at it, the estate agent says " bejaysis, be making' a shedload of money!" and the buyer ends up forking out €300k for something that wouldn't be allowed to be a cowshed in one of the proper EU countries. (Like Bulgaria or Romania for example).
And then we have people like you who staunchly defend this "system", in fact a lot of people would because "we don't need no Johnny Foreigner telling us how to do stuff!" And there you have it. Ireland. Deliberately doing it wrong and being proud of it.

Graham

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Ahm, shouldn't inspectors, you know, ahm, inspect, and stuff? That, erm, would be, like, their job and sh*t?

How often do you suggest the inspectors should check everyones back garden for planning irregularities?

intheclouds

Haven Fit Gopher wrote: »

Not sure of what you mean by "stand up to habitation really" as again it looks like a solid structure that's done up to a reasonable standard. The main issue is the price, if it was 400 euro a month or even 500euro and had a proper cooker I'm sure there are plenty of people who would prefer live there than house share.

By habitation I mean the normal wear and tear that happens living somewhere.

A person cooking, cleaning, showering, eating, exercising, etc in a garden shed would be doing so somewhere that isnt designed to be lived in.

Would there be proper ventilation for 365 showers per year? What about food preparation - would it vent cooking steam and grease etc..

What about insulation? Would it be able to take being heated all winter? I dont know what the walls are made of and if they are designed with internal heating in mind.

What about electricity - does it have its own electricity supply or do you have to wake the homeowners at 3am when youve tripped a switch from charging your phone?

Gumbo

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Ahm, shouldn't inspectors, you know, ahm, inspect, and stuff? That, erm, would be, like, their job and sh*t?
Let me tell you how the Irish "system" works. Builder builds shoddy sh*teheap, "inspector' rubber stamps it from his office without looking at it, the estate agent says " bejaysis, be making' a shedload of money!" and the buyer ends up forking out €300k for something that wouldn't be allowed to be a cowshed in one of the proper EU countries. (Like Bulgaria or Romania for example).
And then we have people like you who staunchly defend this "system", in fact a lot of people would because "we don't need no Johnny Foreigner telling us how to do stuff!" And there you have it. Ireland. Deliberately doing it wrong and being proud of it.

How can the enforcement inspector inspect it if nobody reports it in the first place?

Also, no inspector stamps any development in this country. In the construction industry, we operate self certification, myself included. Please educate yourself on that as you have no idea how our Irish system works, so I'll gracefully decline your offer to tell me how the system works :pac:

intheclouds

intheclouds wrote: »

By habitation I mean the normal wear and tear that happens living somewhere.

A person cooking, cleaning, showering, eating, exercising, etc in a garden shed would be doing so somewhere that isnt designed to be lived in.

Would there be proper ventilation for 365 showers per year? What about food preparation - would it vent cooking steam and grease etc..

What about insulation? Would it be able to take being heated all winter? I dont know what the walls are made of and if they are designed with internal heating in mind.

You could ask the same questions about any amount of houses that are currently being lived in up and down the country.

intheclouds

Haven Fit Gopher wrote: »

You could ask the same questions about any amount of houses that are currently being lived in up and down the country.

Dont disagree with you in the slightest.

But the fact remains, we are not discussing houses up and down the country (although you are quite welcome to start a thread on that), we are discussing a specific advertised property.

I would be very very concerned about anyone "living" in such a place. Stay the odd night, fine. Take the odd shower, grand. But to actually live there, and perform all the activities of daily living in it - its just not designed for such.