Torrent of abuse, did I react right?

LegacyUser

My brother is in a horribly controlling relationship with his wife. She's extremely jealous and treats him terribly, but he always defends her.

Recently at a party, she saw me chatting away to my brother's ex, who I've known for a long time, and is the mother of my nephew.

She didn't speak to me for the night and she and my brother left early. A few days later I received a horrible message from her telling me how dare I talk to his ex, I'm a b*tch, this that and the other. I replied saying who does she think she is, she can't control me, I'll live my life however I please. Then I received an absolute torrent of abuse. She said the most hurtful things to me that she could think of. I was absolutely stunned. But to be honest it didn't phase me because I could see she was just trying to hurt me and if I rose to that she'd win. So I just said things like "You really are a nasty piece of work. I know you're trying to hurt me, but it's not working. I just feel sorry for my brother that he has to put up with you." and "Please, get some help. And don't ever speak to me again."

But now I'm wondering should I have done more to stand up for myself? When I told my other brother and sister they said they would've gone absolutely mental and hit her back with the same level of abuse which made me feel like I was too soft about it and allowed her to abuse me.

I thought not rising and getting personal with her was a smart move. I thought it was tactful. But now I'm thinking, did I let myself down by letting her say such vile things to me and not retaliating? Or was I right not to lower myself? How do you think you would have reacted?

Halfprice

Would of flipped the lid with her straight away but then after i had cooled down would of been happier to do what you actually did. That would drive her mental you not reacting like her. You should tell your brother that you want nothing to do with that woman anymore that your not going be treated like that. God help him is right, god knows what she like with him behind closed doors

Big Bag of Chips

"Vile" is her thing! It's nothing to her. It'a her default setting. So you giving as good as you got wouldn't quiten her. It wouldn't make her think she is somehow at fault. It wouldn't make her realise that she is a nasty person. It would have just fuelled her! She would have enjoyed the fight. It would have excited her. She would also enjoy showing anybody who'd look the nasty texts and telling them the sort of thing she has to put up with from your family.

Starving these types of people of the fuel they desire is the only way to deal with them.

Block her number now so that she can no longer contact you.

Your poor brother.

Anne_cordelia

You acted in exactly the right manner. These type of people want a reaction so you would have annoyed her more doing what you did!

silverbolt

Now frankly you have more sense than i do. I would have leapt all over that and been round her house and forced her husband to see exactly what his wife was saying.

As it stands, youve left it. Leave it there. No more will come from pushing this except another fight

meeeeh

You should ignore her. Do not reply to her triades at all. Or if you have to reply just say you are not going to engage with irrational outbursts and block her. She wants to provoke and hurt you, as long as you ignore her you are the one with power over her.

dudara

nastyfamissues wrote: »

I replied saying who does she think she is, she can't control me, I'll live my life however I please. Then I received an absolute torrent of abuse. She said the most hurtful things to me that she could think of. I was absolutely stunned. But to be honest it didn't phase me because I could see she was just trying to hurt me and if I rose to that she'd win. So I just said things like "You really are a nasty piece of work. I know you're trying to hurt me, but it's not working. I just feel sorry for my brother that he has to put up with you." and "Please, get some help. And don't ever speak to me again."

IMO, your reaction to her was just as bad as her comments to you.

No reaction, no comment is the only way forward here.

strandroad

You handled it perfectly, well done. You won't take it but you won't retaliate. Your instincts are on point.

Why would you want to lower yourself to her level... if you did, you'd create a "feud", this way she's the lowlife as deserved. I would seriously question your brother's advice. It's not a good attitude to have at all, would he like you to become a family with feuds?

Tasden

dudara wrote: »

IMO, your reaction to her was just as bad as her comments to you.

No reaction, no comment is the only way forward here.

Yeah I would've kept silent. She would eventually realise her rants are falling on deaf ears.
I wouldn't bother replying if she continues.
When you engage you're inviting her to continue.

Lux23

I don't see any problem with how you reacted but maybe the next time you see her reiterate what you said and make it clear to her that her cards are marked.

Ursus Horribilis

If you still have them, keep her texts and back them up somewhere. Just in case this takes any further twists and turns.

KikiDee

My brothers girlfriend is a bit like that if she sees us talking any of my brothers ex's. And by talking I mean a polite hello coz what else can we say after our brother trampling all over their hearts (he was a bit of a d1ck back in the day). My older sister (who is far more calm than me or my other sister) just said that we weren't going to be rude to people by ignoring them and that at some point, they had been a part of our lives. Can you maybe try this approach? The ex is the mother of your nephew afterall. It's not ridiculous for your family to be in touch or even friendly with this woman.

D0NNELLY

I'd take a screen shot of the texts and send them on to your brother. He has to cop on sooner or later that she's a looper..

trixychic

Why is your brother with her?? Is he blind to it or does he have children invested in it???

milehip

D0NNELLY wrote: »

I'd take a screen shot of the texts and send them on to your brother. He has to cop on sooner or later that she's a looper..

Oh I'd say he knows first hand what she's like,probably in a state of fear or total denial.

OP you took the right option imo, utterly pointless engaging a wagon like that in a war of words, youre better off keeping someone like that at arms length.

Not being adept at confrontation doesn't make you any less of a person, quite the opposite actually - telling her to mind her business and not to contact you again is enough of a reaction.

Sounds like your other siblings may have a much greater appetite for conflict but that doesn't mean that you have to as well and you shouldn't question yourself for not having the same.

Good luck

intheclouds

Personally I just wouldnt engage with someone like this.

Why is she invited to things if she is unable to behave in a civil manner afterwards?

I am aware I sound very harsh here but I just wouldnt go to things she was at nor invite her to things and if I arrived somewhere and she was there Id leave. That does mean cutting your brother out to some degree (unless you maintain some kind of isolated relationship with him). I have better things to do with my time than spend it in the company of drama queens and idiots.

Personally I wouldn't have reacted the same way. At most I would have texted back 'Never speak to me in that way again' and left it there and ignored any further contact. I probably would have just ignored it totally though.

Hurling equal amounts of abuse back at her would just have lowered you to the same level, not a dignified response at all.

Rubberchikken

my advice would be to ignore this woman completely. be there for your brother, maybe someday he's going to need all the support he can get.
she's certainly not a nice person and could be horribly insecure to behave in the way she does.

kylith

Candie wrote: »

Personally I wouldn't have reacted the same way. At most I would have texted back 'Never speak to me in that way again' and left it there and ignored any further contact. I probably would have just ignored it totally though.

Hurling equal amounts of abuse back at her would just have lowered you to the same level, not a dignified response at all.

I would agree with this. At most I would have replied along the lines of 'You do not dictate who I speak to' and refused to engage further.

Ursus Horribilis

kylith wrote: »

I would agree with this. At most I would have replied along the lines of 'You do not dictate who I speak to' and refused to engage further.

That'd be the ideal thing to do but what's done is done. The fun is only starting I fear. If you can at all, try to keep the lines of communication open with your brother. I can see her using this spat to isolate him.

meeeeh

D0NNELLY wrote: »

I'd take a screen shot of the texts and send them on to your brother. He has to cop on sooner or later that she's a looper..

Op, I would not do this. Your brother will not leave his wife because of you, it will just create more tension. Yes show him the texts if his wife starts bad mouthing you or lying about you but otherwise leave him out of it.

Big Bag of Chips

I'd be thinking of keeping the texts of evidence of abuse from her if/when your brother ever snaps and she cries domestic abuse.

meeeeh

meeeeh wrote: »

Op, I would not do this. Your brother will not leave his wife because of you, it will just create more tension. Yes show him the texts if his wife starts bad mouthing you or lying about you but otherwise leave him out of it.

I'd agree. If anyone is going to put your brother in the middle, don't let it be you.

You have to behave yourself impeccably so that there is no ammunition to be thrown back at you. Keep your dignity, don't engage her or drag your brother into it, refuse to participate in petty bitching, do not bad-mouth her back.

Equally, refuse to allow yourself to be treated or spoken to in that manner. Walk away, tell them you're terminating the phone call until they're civil, or refuse to answer abusive texts. Be the bigger person here.

valoren

This sounds like a toxic ruse in order to isolate your brother from you and his family.
She looked for a reaction. She got one. Tactful as you were, you could have said a lot worse.
But you've said enough to give her ammunition against you.

His wife sounds like she is an insecure, controlling bully from what you've said.
Standing your ground with such people is unfortunately the death knell now for your relationship with your brother.
She has attempted and failed to intimidate you into submission. You haven't tried to placate her in any way.
To that end, you are now a threat. You know what she is like.
Considering that he is your brother and you sound like a reasonable person, you may wish to warn him, protect him etc.
She will isolate you as much as possible now from your brother.
She will show him your texts (and will perhaps 'edit' her own messages to appear like she was simply and innocuously 'raising concerns' about you speaking to his ex and will remove her aggressive texts).
She needed a reason to have a go at you. She chose you talking to his ex. She had her reason and in her head she was somehow justified in attacking you.
Sounds crazy but there's no limit to what she will do to control him and his thinking. She will play him for a fool.

She will essentially make him think that you are a troublemaker, an aggressive bully.
Well done for standing up for yourself in face of such poisonous incitement.
Nobody deserves to be treated in such a way for such a trivial matter.

However, your relationship with your brother is potentially damaged now.
Were he to engage with you, she may well respond as she done with you and his ex.
He will be reluctant to contact you perhaps for fear of her throwing a tantrum. All conveniently designed to keep him under her control.
If he is the gullible, easily led type then you will seldom see him from now on.
That's the price you pay for not kotowing or allowing yourself to be bullied. They come as a package.
Hopefully, he will see what's going on and stand up for himself and see through her poison.
That's about your only hope here as she certainly doesn't sound like the type to engage in a civil discussion.

The solution to all this is you brother. For him to realise what is going on.
I would advise that you maintain your composure if you get anymore taunts. Don't give her the oxygen.
Keep everything. Screenshot everything on your phone. And don't fall out with your brother.
She is potentially feeding him a line of BS about you. He may feel compelled to have a go at you to defend his wife.
Don't fall for that. Just tell him that you love him and you always will, you're sorry he feels that way etc.
He might need you yet in future.

December2012

You don't have to rise to this person, but keep open all options to keep your brother with support, even if he doesn't need it yet.

Fakediamond

I agree with posters who are urging you to try very hard to maintain communication with your brother. I would call this a classic domestic abuse situation, where she will gradually isolate him from family and she is using this situation to do that with you. You can be sure that she is twisting it to look like she is the innocent victim in all this.

Try and support him and discreetly inform him about the signs that he is in an abusive relationship. He may not agree now but knowledge is power and will give him some food for thought. Just let him know that you and your siblings are there for him if he needs you.

My heart goes out to him.

LegacyUser

OP here, thank you all for your responses. As I'm sure you can imagine this has been playing on my mind a lot.

I do agree that this is a clear case of controlling domestic abuse. It bothers me that people in my family keep saying "where is his backbone?" "why doesn't he man up and leave?" If this was happening to a woman there would be far more sympathy.

After it happened I rang him and he sounded so defeated. He said if he defends me in any way to her his bags will be packed. He told me he puts up with the abuse daily. My heart absolutely went out to him.

The thing I'm now wondering about is what do I do at the next family event? She will be there, she is that brazen. I love family get togethers so I certainly won't leave, but I don't think I could stomach even looking at her let alone talking to her. I mean one of the things she said to me was "I'm his wife. He doesn't ****ing care about you, no one does. He doesnt even like you you ****ing bitch. He has me and my family he doesn't need any of yous." ... horrendous. This was only one statement out of a torrent of this stuff.

So, what do I do at the next family event? I certainly do not want to speak to her but if I ignore her my brother will have to deal with the backlash. It's a really hard situation, we all miss our brother so much and don't want to make things difficult for him, but I also have my own self respect. I really do not want to speak to her ever again.

Airyfairy12

I would have hardly even responded to her, people like her will only twist the situation to make you look bad. People like that have no self awareness and cant see why or how theyre wrong. They love drama and fighting with people. Id block her number.

Teyla Emmagan

She's clearly monstrous but for the sake of your brother you will have to be civil to her. If she manages to cut him off from his family then the poor man has had it. The next time you meet her you will simply have to smile and be perfectly polite. Do not by the twitch of an eyelid betray how much she has hurt you. She would thrive on that and your brother will suffer. Put him ahead of yourself until he can find the strength to leave her. And try and get him in touch with one of the domestic abuse organisations.

intheclouds

nastyfamproblems wrote: »

The thing I'm now wondering about is what do I do at the next family event?

Why is she invited to family events if she cannot behave like a reasonable adult at them?

Ursus Horribilis

nastyfamproblems wrote: »

After it happened I rang him and he sounded so defeated. He said if he defends me in any way to her his bags will be packed. He told me he puts up with the abuse daily. My heart absolutely went out to him. .

That's a chink of light. That he is admitting that he puts up with this. There is an organisation called Amen http://www.amen.ie which helps male victims of domestic violence. I wonder if you gave them a call, would they be able to give you advice about how to help your brother. Ideally, it'd be great if your brother made contact with them but that's a big step.

It's all well and good for people to say he should man up but it isn't as simple as that. Leaving an abusive partner is a massive step and he's terrified. I've read so many threads from people here who are with horrible partners and they just can't/won't leave even though they're being treated like dirt. Rationality and common sense doesn't come into it. Maybe you could get these family members to take a look at the Amen website and it could help them understand better. If your brother knew in some way that his family are on his side, it could help.

As for the next family get together, you're going to have to swallow your pride and be pleasant to her. Act as if nothing happened. Don't engage with her but certainly don't ignore her or let her see that her words have got to you. It wouldn't take much at all for her to stop your brother from seeing any of you in the family. Those comments from her are certainly signposting that.

Ursus Horribilis

intheclouds wrote: »

Why is she invited to family events if she cannot behave like a reasonable adult at them?

Politeness I suppose. And when you read things like this, you could see her telling him they're not going. And that would be that.

I'm his wife. He doesn't ****ing care about you, no one does. He doesnt even like you you ****ing bitch. He has me and my family he doesn't need any of yous." ... horrendous. This was only one statement out of a torrent of this stuff.

Big Bag of Chips

At the next family event I'd just carry on doing what you've always done. Sounds like she doesn't mingle much with you anyway. Be polite but don't be in your face nice to her. I assume that's not how you behave around her anyway.

Don't let yourself down by being nasty towards her. But don't fawn all over her either. If it's a family gathering with lots of people it should be very easy to not be in direct company with her.

Edit..... And please don't involve your brother. He knows what she's like better than any of you. He doesn't need to be told.

Loopy

Why the hell does he not leave her?
His life sounds like hell.
Poor guy

L.Jenkins

Loopy wrote: »

Why the hell does he not leave her?
His life sounds like hell.
Poor guy

Sadly it might not be that easy for him since they are married. While he is aware of her behaviour, he might see her through rose tinted glasses so to speak. There could be a lot of complicating factors in his own mind, preventing him from leaving her.

meeeeh

Or he might have no desire to leave. Just because one or a lot of people don't like someone it doesn't mean person in the relationship doesn't.

Anyway OP it doesn't seem you have a very small family so you should be able to avoid her in social gatherings. And if you do have to talk to her just say minimum. Be civil and cold. If she wants to have an argument just tell her that this is not the time nor the place and walk away.