looks like the guards are going back into LRA, leaves the ASTI as last man standing

judeboy101

http://www.thejournal.ie/gardai-reach-pay-deal-with-department-2995355-Sep2016/

ethical

........and those (of us) that signed up to Lansdowne Rd are better off by a whopping €5:00 per week!

man_no_plan

They only got that because of the ASTI I suppose.

judeboy101

man_no_plan wrote: »

They only got that because of the ASTI I suppose.

Someone needs to protect our TD's from 15 year olds with megaphones !!

kala85

Read the comments on the article before you judge. Waiting until I hear from the GRA on it.

"There has been no deal agreed between the GRA and the Dept of Justice to accept the Lansdowne Rd Deal, or on any part of it. The Dept issued a position paper to the GRA negotiating team outlining what they say they are prepared to offer, which the GRA must bring it to their CEC. There absolutely is no truth to the story that any deal was agreed to. This was deliberately fed to the Independent and RTE to spread this disinformation to undermine the GRA members ballot on industrial action, which hasn’t even been finalised yet (closing date tomorrow). Deliberate lies were reported by the aforementioned media outlets, at the behest of the Dept no doubt – as is their wont. Just bad reporting by The Journal to go with the same lies."

James izzard Mason

Last man??? I don't think so!

Try BTEI staff in the ETB's. They don't even have crutches!

evolving_doors

man_no_plan wrote: »

They only got that because of the ASTI I suppose.

Why what's the TUI's leverage?

evolving_doors

Anyhow, news says the deal is joining Lansdowne Road PLUS extra productivity.

Listening to news today RTE, I think it was Ingrid Miley who said the TUI got concessions without any extra productivity! As if LR is just a minor document to be signed

griffzinho

Keep fighting ASTI. Nearly a decade of never ending dispute. Hurting teachers, students, parents and much needed reform.
I'm so sad to be a member of the ASTI at the moment.

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/colm-orourke/asti-is-marching-its-members-towards-their-own-destruction-35076357.html

coolhandluke

Govt spinners out in force today, there is not a hope the gardai will accept what is on offer and you can take that to the bank.

van_beano

griffzinho wrote: »

Keep fighting ASTI. Nearly a decade of never ending dispute. Hurting teachers, students, parents and much needed reform.
I'm so sad to be a member of the ASTI at the moment.

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/colm-orourke/asti-is-marching-its-members-towards-their-own-destruction-35076357.html

Just wondering, is it a mandatory requirement to be a member of ASTI? It's not mandatory to be part of the GRA.

evolving_doors

griffzinho wrote: »

Keep fighting ASTI. Nearly a decade of never ending dispute. Hurting teachers, students, parents and much needed reform.
I'm so sad to be a member of the ASTI at the moment.

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/colm-orourke/asti-is-marching-its-members-towards-their-own-destruction-35076357.html

Oh dear god not him again.
Please find out why Colm left ASTI before looking at this guy as a font of knowledge.
The ASTI is made up of its members, the members voted.
Did we see the ASTI objecting/striking over the introduction of project maths?

ASTI jumped into CP.. Colm still not happy.
ASTI jumped into Hr.. Colm still not happy.
Will Colm be happy if/when ASTI jumps into LR.... you won't hear from him again.

Stick to the property developing Colm.

griffzinho

I think his argument is very well reasoned. ASTI is consistently fighting any proposed changes. Always fighting. Always in dispute. Mind you I am only a member for 11 years. Before that I do not have any information. Every time I voted the mainstream vote went against my position. Maybe I am not suited to this union I have often asked myself that question, particularly as I know for a fact that many times people voted without even knowing the details of what was involved. There is certainly a tendency towards conflict.

The militant CEC guides a lot of sheep. Let us just keep on striking about everything, forever. More and more disputes. I even see the characters on here, including the moderator. Fight, fight, fight. Teachers , students, parents all lose out. No change. No moving with the times. All change is bad.

I just can't believe it really.

Inspector Coptoor

griffzinho wrote: »

I think his argument is very well reasoned. ASTI is consistently fighting any proposed changes. Always fighting. Always in dispute. Mind you I am only a member for 11 years. Before that I do not have any information. Every time I voted the mainstream vote went against my position. Maybe I am not suited to this union I have often asked myself that question, particularly as I know for a fact that many times people voted without even knowing the details of what was involved. There is certainly a tendency towards conflict.

The militant CEC guides a lot of sheep. Let us just keep on striking about everything, forever. More and more disputes. I even see the characters on here, including the moderator. Fight, fight, fight. Teachers , students, parents all lose out. No change. No moving with the times. All change is bad.

I just can't believe it really.

Change is not alway bad.

Change which involves more work for less pay is bad.
Full stop.

Yourself and O Rourke would want to catch yourselves on.

The ASTI is a union concerned with the plight of its members.
Not parents or students.
End of.

It's not about protesting and striking for no reason, it's about getting a fair deal and not being shat on by successive governments.

griffzinho

Inspector Coptoor.

If you consider yourself shat on then you are definitely in the wrong profession.

For me.. I go to work, do my classes, didn't mind Croke Park hours if they are allocated sensibly (and more flexibility), like the new Junior Cert curriculum much more than the old, and are more than happy with remuneration that I consider fair in the context of our national accounts. I do wish that all teachers are on equal pay and on all full hours CID's, but as for the rest of the consistent bickering that the ASTI have involved themselves in this last decade, it's not for me. Everything is fought against tooth and nail.

I love my job, I'm fairly paid, and my workload is definitely reasonable in relation to my pay. That I can assure you of.

The bulk of ASTI (you included) are not grounded in reality and that is my opinion.
As for what position the ASTI occupies in the mind of the public I can just imagine.

acequion

griffzinho wrote: »

I think his argument is very well reasoned. ASTI is consistently fighting any proposed changes. Always fighting. Always in dispute. Mind you I am only a member for 11 years. Before that I do not have any information. Every time I voted the mainstream vote went against my position. Maybe I am not suited to this union I have often asked myself that question, particularly as I know for a fact that many times people voted without even knowing the details of what was involved. There is certainly a tendency towards conflict.

The militant CEC guides a lot of sheep. Let us just keep on striking about everything, forever. More and more disputes. I even see the characters on here, including the moderator. Fight, fight, fight. Teachers , students, parents all lose out. No change. No moving with the times. All change is bad.

I just can't believe it really.

You can't believe that people are actually prepared to fight for what they believe is right? Wow! So you think teachers should give in, give in,give in? Agree, agree, agree?

Agree to unequal pay scales among collegues doing the same work?

Agree to constant "agreements" which erode our working conditions?

Agree to being bound by Fempi though the emergency is over?

Agree to a transition from a tried and tested exam structure to one which dumbs down standards and which has been tried and thrown out in many other jurisdictions.

Agree to continue extra unpaid administration hours which are unproductive and soul destroying.

Agree to becoming supervisors, bouncers, subs for a pittance.

Agree to agreements which the other party consistently breaches to suit themselves.

I really could go on but you would probably still think all this is some kind of a rant,not the reality of the seriously weakened profession we work in.But then I suppose you think a seriously weakened profession is "change" and "moving with the times" and shur we must do that, we're neanderthals if we don't! We, the lowly teachers,not people like our friend Colm who laughs all the way to the bank.

You're not only in the wrong union. You shouldn't be in a union with that attitude.

evolving_doors

griffzinho wrote: »

I think his argument is very well reasoned. ASTI is consistently fighting any proposed changes. Always fighting. Always in dispute. Mind you I am only a member for 11 years. Before that I do not have any information. Every time I voted the mainstream vote went against my position. Maybe I am not suited to this union I have often asked myself that question, particularly as I know for a fact that many times people voted without even knowing the details of what was involved. There is certainly a tendency towards conflict.

The militant CEC guides a lot of sheep. Let us just keep on striking about everything, forever. More and more disputes. I even see the characters on here, including the moderator. Fight, fight, fight. Teachers , students, parents all lose out. No change. No moving with the times. All change is bad.

I just can't believe it really.

Did the ASTI strike over project maths?
If you count 'moving with the times' as accepting worsening working conditions and pay cuts then I can see why you're arguing that protesting is pointless.

Do you genuinely think Croke Park hours were 'productive'.
Are those S&S classes worth the giving up of planning time.... but shur I suppose it's ok to do them at home in our own time.
Look around your staff room at lunch time. Are all the staff there 'having lunch'?
I counted one day in the last 2 weeks when I sat and chatted during lunch (and ate my lunch in my own time). Is this normal?

I think the fact that you are asking questions and challenging people is healthy to have within a union though! And hey maybe I am wrong in wanting to protest so it's good to challenge. Better than folk who dont really know what a vote is about and sell themselves out for a couple of extra quid and the promise of 'looking into things' in the future.

Inspector Coptoor

griffzinho wrote: »

Inspector Coptoor.

If you consider yourself shat on then you are definitely in the wrong profession.

For me.. I go to work, do my classes, didn't mind Croke Park hours if they are allocated sensibly (and more flexibility), like the new Junior Cert curriculum much more than the old, and are more than happy with remuneration that I consider fair in the context of our national accounts. I do wish that all teachers are on equal pay and on all full hours CID's, but as for the rest of the consistent bickering that the ASTI have involved themselves in this last decade, it's not for me. Everything is fought against tooth and nail.

I love my job, I'm fairly paid, and my workload is definitely reasonable in relation to my pay. That I can assure you of.

The bulk of ASTI (you included) are not grounded in reality and that is my opinion.
As for what position the ASTI occupies in the mind of the public I can just imagine.

I am in the correct profession.
I love my job and give it everything I have and have done for the last 11 years.

I think it's incredibly unfair that a teacher who started after 2011 starts on €30k a year when I started on €38k

I reject the idea of the Croke park hours - 33 hours of what is essentially detention for teachers that takes away from my co-curricular work with students.

I reject the idea of working 43 hours of S&S at a net gain of €8 per week.

My time is worth more than that.

Again, you need to have a good long look at yourself, how you view these arguments and how you could ever agree with Colm O Rourke on an issue like this.

griffzinho

acequion wrote: »

You can't believe that people are actually prepared to fight for what they believe is right? Wow! So you think teachers should give in, give in,give in? Agree, agree, agree?

Agree to unequal pay scales among collegues doing the same work?

Agree to constant "agreements" which erode our working conditions?

Agree to being bound by Fempi though the emergency is over?

Agree to a transition from a tried and tested exam structure to one which dumbs down standards and which has been tried and thrown out in many other jurisdictions.

Agree to continue extra unpaid administration hours which are unproductive and soul destroying.

Agree to becoming supervisors, bouncers, subs for a pittance.

Agree to agreements which the other party consistently breaches to suit themselves.

I really could go on but you would probably still think all this is some kind of a rant,not the reality of the seriously weakened profession we work in.But then I suppose you think a seriously weakened profession is "change" and "moving with the times" and shur we must do that, we're neanderthals if we don't! We, the lowly teachers,not people like our friend Colm who laughs all the way to the bank.

You're not only in the wrong union. You shouldn't be in a union with that attitude.

As already mentioned I think pay inequality is wrong. Fempi is too but we should be in Lra like nearly every other union.As for the rest I think it is the rant of a typical entitled Asti member. As for my union membership perhaps I am in the wrong union as the other two teaching unions seem more aligned with my thinking. Certainly Tui, but can I switch??! No. We have been in dispute for so long I never have had the opportunity. Keep on fighting.

evolving_doors

I think we'll have to wait and see what extra productivity they are looking for off the Gardai. It'll probably be the same for the bus drivers.
To my mind though LR IS the extra productivity.

political analyst

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

I am in the correct profession.
I love my job and give it everything I have and have done for the last 11 years.

I think it's incredibly unfair that a teacher who started after 2011 starts on €30k a year when I started on €38k

I reject the idea of the Croke park hours - 33 hours of what is essentially detention for teachers that takes away from my co-curricular work with students.

I reject the idea of working 43 hours of S&S at a net gain of €8 per week.

My time is worth more than that.

Again, you need to have a good long look at yourself, how you view these arguments and how you could ever agree with Colm O Rourke on an issue like this.

Surely, doing S&S can't be as bad as being stuck in pointless meetings. After all, secondary teachers managed OK with S&S before 2000.

evolving_doors

political analyst wrote: »

Surely, doing S&S can't be as bad as being stuck in pointless meetings. After all, secondary teachers managed OK with S&S before 2000.

I think you're asking Surley there to chose between the rack or the iron maiden.

judeboy101

political analyst wrote: »

Surely, doing S&S can't be as bad as being stuck in pointless meetings. After all, secondary teachers managed OK with S&S before 2000.

S&S was a choice back then. When you have to do it forever it loses its appeal. When I started older staff didn't do it (no one wants to see a 60year old woman standing in the freezing cold). Now you can look forward to 40yrs of standing in a corridor or on a pitch watching kids play while arthritis slowly eats away your joints.

implausible

I'm not getting into the rest of it, but just want to point out that, while it may seem like v little per week, s/s works out at E37 an hour (or it will, next Sept), close enough what we were getting paid for it a few years ago and definitely more than what we were paid before 2001.

acequion

griffzinho wrote: »

As already mentioned I think pay inequality is wrong. Fempi is too but we should be in Lra like nearly every other union.As for the rest I think it is the rant of a typical entitled Asti member. As for my union membership perhaps I am in the wrong union as the other two teaching unions seem more aligned with my thinking. Certainly Tui, but can I switch??! No. We have been in dispute for so long I never have had the opportunity. Keep on fighting.

The bit in bold is what we're up against! The total ignorance of those who condemn the people who fight for rights.

And the worst of it is that the Government don't really need to do anything. We'll be sold out, as always, by our own.

acequion

implausible wrote: »

I'm not getting into the rest of it, but just want to point out that, while it may seem like v little per week, s/s works out at E37 an hour (or it will, next Sept), close enough what we were getting paid for it a few years ago and definitely more than what we were paid before 2001.

Fair enough but firstly nobody should be forced into it and forced to continue it. Secondly when you say close enough to a few years ago,don't forget that people have to do substantially more of it than a few years ago.

Notorious

Colm O'Rourke wrote:

So what is happening now is that good teachers will opt for ETB schools if there is a choice of employment. Why should they accept lower pay to work in a voluntary school?

Has Colm been living under a rock?

Griffzinho wrote:

I'm fairly paid

Well that's the problem. So many teachers are not. The deal the TUI accepted is not good enough. Teachers took a hit when the times were tough, and now we can't even secure pay parity. Like the bus & Luas drivers, we should be pushing for a pay rise.

griffzinho

acequion wrote: »

The bit in bold is what we're up against! The total ignorance of those who condemn the people who fight for rights.

And the worst of it is that the Government don't really need to do anything. We'll be sold out, as always, by our own.

This post sums it up really. So entrenched and unable to see the bigger picture. When the likes of Kieran Mulvey are incredulous at the actions of the Asti you got to ask who is ignorant? The Asti are nearly 10 years fighting. Sometimes this is not the way forward. The Tui have negotiated benefits for younger teachers which have impressed me. Progress on casualisation plus moves towards pay parity. What have Asti done except act like over entitled sulkers. Fighting against practically everything. We are soon going to be on our own outside Lra. The only public sector union outside. Surely, when you stand back and look, you can see the bigger picture? Surely?

griffzinho

Notorious wrote: »

Has Colm been living under a rock?



Well that's the problem. So many teachers are not. The deal the TUI accepted is not good enough. Teachers took a hit when the times were tough, and now we can't even secure pay parity. Like the bus & Luas drivers, we should be pushing for a pay rise.

Moves towards pay parity for new teachers by Tui are a start. Sulking outside Lra is not. A pay rise? Unlike Luas we are government employees. Our national accounts are still in deficit. Moderate pay restoration is the only practical way forward. Simple economics dictates this or do you want to step back to the Fianna Fail sailing straight at the iceberg scenario of the early/mid 2000's?

griffzinho

At present, all Asti have achieved for it's members is wrongly put them facing Fempi. Fempi is wrong, but it exists. The Asti have as it stands walked it's younger members into a situation of 4 year Cids and zero pay restoration.

Notorious

griffzinho wrote: »

Moves towards pay parity for new teachers by Tui are a start.

You're right, it is a start. But the least we as professionals should expect is fair and equal pay for every employee. If we accept minor differences now, it'll be more difficult in the future to restore equality (with allowances, for example).

I'm not going to engage in the economics debate with you, but I will say that nearly 40% of employees in Ireland have seen recent pay rises. The economy is improving, and with that there should be room to negotiate rises. The TUI have already stated that this will be their next "battle".

acequion

griffzinho wrote: »

This post sums it up really. So entrenched and unable to see the bigger picture. When the likes of Kieran Mulvey are incredulous at the actions of the Asti you got to ask who is ignorant? The Asti are nearly 10 years fighting. Sometimes this is not the way forward. The Tui have negotiated benefits for younger teachers which have impressed me. Progress on casualisation plus moves towards pay parity. What have Asti done except act like over entitled sulkers. Fighting against practically everything. We are soon going to be on our own outside Lra. The only public sector union outside. Surely, when you stand back and look, you can see the bigger picture? Surely?

You have to be a wind up! Or someone on the Government side! You cannot be a real teacher on the ground all these years or an ASTI member!

Progress on casualisation! What progress? 30% of Irish teachers were casualised two years ago and guess what it's still 30% and creeping upwards while the EU average is 15%

Kieran Mulvey! Don't make me laugh.A former ASTI general secretary in the cosy old days,impressed the Government and got himself promoted to a plum job for them. Like your friend Colm, earns multiples of what a teacher does. And these are the type of people you cite!

And you talk of public finances. The same public finances where our PM is paid more than world leaders in much larger countries. Meanwhile many, many teachers have had to sign up for income support just to make ends meet.

And of course the ASTI is just an angry bull fighting for the sake of it. Never mind that since 2009, successive administrations have cut pay, introduced a pension levy,introduced the extra unpaid hours, forced teachers into more S&S,cut the pay of new entrants, slashed sick pay,cut allowances, introduced snow days, made huge changes to junior cycle, increased the PTR,one of the highest in the OECDetc etc etc and despite promising a "last ask"continue to target teachers and education now that the recession is over.

But I suppose you think all those realities are just a rant too!

joebloggs32

Just something I was wondering about.
Will ASTI staff have their timetables reduced to 21h 20m next year as part of the new JC?
I dont want to go down the road of the whole jc debate, just curious about this as I work in a community school with both unions.

Benicetomonty

Guards are ways away from signing up to Lansdowne listening to the news. No mention of pay equality from the 'deal' and an extra 15 hours work on top of it! Going to a delegation on Wednesday, may or may not go to ballot thereafter.

acequion

griffzinho wrote: »

Acequion.

Perhaps in the real world the successive governments you talk about are not our enemy, as you seem to think. Our country nearly went under. Both public and private sector had to pay. If your only argument on national finances is a reference to the Taoiseachs salary then I cannot entertain you. Such populous drivel. Most of those reforms were necessary cost cutting measures. These successive Governments had their hand forced by circumstances. In fact, the generous pay bargaining of the early 2000's from which we benefited significantly played a major role in over inflating our economy. The Government in this era was too benevolent if anything. As for post 2009 and necessary cuts, you really need to look at historical budget figures for those years. Peaked at well over €20 Billion plus deficit.

I suppose you are one of those who resent bailing out the banks too? Let them fail?
Read a little on money creation if you are.

Can you honestly say we have a persecuted profession? Seriously? For real?? as you would state yourself.
Most teachers on full hours certainly aren't. Our job is not particularly difficult. We work hard, but enjoy many benefits. Most of my friends/family would think that our 'benefits' are extremely generous. In fact I always seem to be the target of a little jesting at my holidays and fairly decent working hours.

As for O'Rourke and Mulvey you seem to resent their success., Are they not entitled to progress themselves? I respect Mulvey and his work with the LRC/WRC. I think he is good at his job. Should we all be earning an equal wage? I certainly don't think so.

As for your last question. Yes I do think they are a rant. A rant of someone who does not look at the bigger picture. Someone who prepared to roll with it in the good times, but not face harsh realities in the time of crisis.

The time has come for the restoration of some pay and a refinement of conditions. I firmly support the plight of young teachers, but as for staying outside the LRA like a bunch of sulking entitled children, I am totally not in favour.

As for you asking me 'Am i for real'. The answer is a firm yes. I am as real as nearly every other public sector worker (who all suffered) and are now part of the LRA. Time to get back to the table ASTI. Time to get real.

Whatever you are you are a 100% Government sympathiser, no question about that, complete with right wing rhetoric and arrogance. People like you have no business at all in a trade union, any trade union.

It really is bad enough to have to endure hostility from a very conservative, pro establishment and mainly sheepish Irish public who aren't always in full possession of the facts. But to receive such ill will from within our own ranks completely beggars belief. Which is why I find it hard to believe that you are a bone fide teacher and union member.

In any case,feel free to reply with more right wing rhetoric, I'm done wasting my time talking to the likes of you.

evolving_doors

Ok folks enough of the tit-for-tat.

Back on topic.

Mod.

evolving_doors

Benicetomonty wrote: »

Guards are ways away from signing up to Lansdowne listening to the news. No mention of pay equality from the 'deal' and an extra 15 hours work on top of it! Going to a delegation on Wednesday, may or may not go to ballot thereafter.

Is that 15 hours on top of the croke park hours?

deiseindublin

I don't think there's a fear of the guards accepting the deal but I presume this "Guards inside LRA" media spin is government led to coincide with ASTI casting their ballots. I really hope this and the TUI pittance deal won't be enough to break the resolve of the majority.

Benicetomonty

Gebgbegb wrote: »

Is that 15 hours on top of the croke park hours?

Yes, AFAIK. Can be completed in 15min slots, whatever that means.

ethical

Our friend Colm has got it in for the ASTI as they refused to support his stance re: a gaa tour he was alledgely going to go on while playing gaelic many years ago.Of course he dosent need s & s money and the like as the national broadcaster supplements his income quite nicely.His dipping into property developing was not successful as his colleague Joe mentioned to him on the national airwaves one day last year!

evolving_doors

Well the ballot for the Gardai is in... 95% were in favour of strike action.
Could it be possible to turn this around when they consider the weekend's proposals?

deiseindublin

87% TUI turned around, too depressing to guess on the Gardai but I'd say they're more one minded than we were.

amacca

This is not TUI bashing but I cannot understand their turnaround in the context of the behaviour of who they were bargaining with.

An agreement was made with Govt...Teachers honoured it, Govt did not honour it

Then Govt made getting what was already due under the previous agreement conditional on signing up to a new agreement (which gave little details of what new conditions would be imposed in future among other issues)

Have I got that wrong?

deiseindublin

No amacca, that pretty much sums it up.

joe swanson

From what i hear, not a hope the guards will accept the proposals. No deal was ever made but is govt spin.

Stand firm,

Benicetomonty

Gardai reject Dept's proposals. Good!

Ingrid Miley
‏@ingridmileyRTE
3 sources say #GRA mtg has rejected Dept of Justice pay proposals- question now is what they do re mandate for industrial action

gaiscioch

If ever a thread needed to be renamed this is it.

Once again - without exception - all members of the pseudo-profession of journalism covering this story leave ethics at the door and allow themselves it to be conduits for government press releases and spin dressed up as "news". "Free press" indeed. Shameful stuff.

Yours,

Still waiting for that front-page apology to that front-page lead Irish Times story a year or so ago which falsely claimed most ASTI members did not strike.

PS: A sincere well done to members of An Garda.

coillsaille

Well said. It's so infuriating how we don't have any professional, objective and unbiased media coverage in this country. Just this morning I was reading about the new way the guards will work the extra hours under the new arrangement. Only for boards and comment sections on some media websites I would have read it as the guards have signed up without quibble.

Frankly frank

griffzinho wrote: »

Inspector Coptoor.

If you consider yourself shat on then you are definitely in the wrong profession.

For me.. I go to work, do my classes, didn't mind Croke Park hours if they are allocated sensibly (and more flexibility), like the new Junior Cert curriculum much more than the old, and are more than happy with remuneration that I consider fair in the context of our national accounts. I do wish that all teachers are on equal pay and on all full hours CID's, but as for the rest of the consistent bickering that the ASTI have involved themselves in this last decade, it's not for me. Everything is fought against tooth and nail.

I love my job, I'm fairly paid, and my workload is definitely reasonable in relation to my pay. That I can assure you of.

The bulk of ASTI (you included) are not grounded in reality and that is my opinion.
As for what position the ASTI occupies in the mind of the public I can just imagine.

Unfortunately while you make some other valid points this is the issue:
I am glad that you are fairly paid and feeling comfortable.
Reality check - others are not and are ready to fight just to have those same rights!
Thanks so much for your support "Jack".

Mardy Bum

Frankly frank wrote: »

griffzinho wrote: »

Inspector Coptoor.

If you consider yourself shat on then you are definitely in the wrong profession.

For me.. I go to work, do my classes, didn't mind Croke Park hours if they are allocated sensibly (and more flexibility), like the new Junior Cert curriculum much more than the old, and are more than happy with remuneration that I consider fair in the context of our national accounts. I do wish that all teachers are on equal pay and on all full hours CID's, but as for the rest of the consistent bickering that the ASTI have involved themselves in this last decade, it's not for me. Everything is fought against tooth and nail.

I love my job, I'm fairly paid, and my workload is definitely reasonable in relation to my pay. That I can assure you of.

The bulk of ASTI (you included) are not grounded in reality and that is my opinion.
As for what position the ASTI occupies in the mind of the public I can just imagine.

Unfortunately while you make some other valid points this is the issue:
I am glad that you are fairly paid and feeling comfortable.
Reality check - others are not and are ready to fight just to have those same rights!
Thanks so much for your support "Jack".

If the OP was on half hours and post 2011 pay they would be cribbing. If the OP was willing to cut his salary to post 2011 levels I would take him seriously as he seems worried about national debt but I'll go out on a limb and guess he didn't tell the department to do this.

acequion

coillsaille wrote: »

Well said. It's so infuriating how we don't have any professional, objective and unbiased media coverage in this country. Just this morning I was reading about the new way the guards will work the extra hours under the new arrangement. Only for boards and comment sections on some media websites I would have read it as the guards have signed up without quibble.

Completely agree. It is actually quite shocking that in a democracy citizens don't have access to different political leanings in the media as they do in other countries. Here it is always the right wing establishment line that is being trotted out like a well oiled propaganda machine. And it's amazing how many people fall for the spin. It's very unhealthy and I think we have a duty to teach our students how to read between the lines and think for themselves.

The propaganda machine was well set in motion last weekend with Colm O Rourke's anti ASTI rant. Will we read the other side next Sunday? Very much doubt it.

And yes this thread should be renamed as thankfully the ASTI are not the last man standing. I'm delighted that the Gardai are sticking to their guns.Proper order as they have a tough job too and deserve proper pay and conditions.