Sandymount Strand cycleway

Chuchote

Is there any plan for a cycleway along Sandymount Strand to join up with the Dodder path at Ringsend on one end and the Blackrock Park path at Booterstown at the other?
This is one of the few places where experienced cyclists fairly often cycle on a pedestrian path, because the road is too scary - narrow and with heavy traffic.
The pedestrian path by the sea needs (imho) to be kept for walkers, because it's traditionally a place where people walk when they're very old and when they're recovering from operations and illness.
But there's plenty of room on the land side for a separated cycling path along the sea.
When you leave the sea at the Ringsend end, there's a horrible road where people head for the Port Tunnel in cars and trucks. And on the Booterstown end you have to navigate the nasty Merrion Road. It would be great to get a separate cycleway section along there.

stampydmonkey

Bit of info here of plans for the area

http://s2s.ie/maps/

Chuchote

S2S plan (can never remember what that stands for) seems to leave gaps where I'm saying, unfortunately. Sorry for the terrible map; it's what is provided on their website:

Greenman

Chuchote wrote: »

S2S plan (can never remember what that stands for)

Sutton to Sandycove.

Seanmk1

Chuchote wrote: »

S2S plan (can never remember what that stands for) seems to leave gaps where I'm saying, unfortunately. Sorry for the terrible map; it's what is provided on their website:

That looks cool, a couple of ramps and a good runup for the jump would make a nice continuous cycleway at Dún Laoghaire :-p

Chuchote

Bizarre not to make a section of the cycleway along the seafront at Sandymount; the road is dangerous, very few use the pavement on the sea side; there's already a walkway and a cycleway could be run in beside it. I can't understand why it's a gap on the map.

stampydmonkey

My understanding of the map above is that it is showing existing cycle infrastructure. Everything not highlighted is to be completed in some form or another but yeah would love to see similar infrastructure along sandymount as is being built along the coast at St.annes

Chuchote

stampydmonkey wrote: »

My understanding of the map above is that it is showing existing cycle infrastructure. Everything not highlighted is to be completed in some form or another but yeah would love to see similar infrastructure along sandymount as is being built along the coast at St.annes

Ah, that would be sensible.

magicbastarder

interesting to hear the ideas that were being bandied about as long ago as 1985 (i suspect this was posted before); we've not come a long way.

http://www.rte.ie/radio1/doconone/2013/0527/647427-radio-documentary-bicycle-bell-bike-saddle-jim-lockhart/

Seaswimmer

I cycle that road twice a day (for last 15 years) and twice a day for 4 years in the late 80's. I would'nt consider it dangerous.

If commuting at rush hour then the traffic is stopped or very slow moving. I keep well out from the parked cars heading into town and well out from the curb heading out. The only place I have ever had problems are at the mini roundabouts so I admittedly treat these with caution. But there are far more dangerous roads in Dublin. Look at Billyheads post re a roundabout near Swords..

Chuchote

Seaswimmer wrote: »

I cycle that road twice a day (for last 15 years) and twice a day for 4 years in the late 80's. I would'nt consider it dangerous.

If commuting at rush hour then the traffic is stopped or very slow moving. I keep well out from the parked cars heading into town and well out from the curb heading out. The only place I have ever had problems are at the mini roundabouts so I admittedly treat these with caution. But there are far more dangerous roads in Dublin. Look at Billyheads post re a roundabout near Swords..

It's not so much when the traffic is stalled as when the traffic is beginning to jam and drivers are getting panicky.

Chuchote

Cycled along this on Sunday again; the traffic was wojius, cars speeding along nose-to-tail. Most cyclists were going slowly along the sea side pavement. Locals say that for some reason there's great local animosity to any plan for a cycleway here; perhaps they think it would give the wuff working classes more access. I'd be more worried about the noise, fumes and poisonous particulates from the practically non-stop stream of two-way traffic on the Strand Road.

Seaswimmer

Chuchote wrote: »

Cycled along this on Sunday again; the traffic was wojius, cars speeding along nose-to-tail. Most cyclists were going slowly along the sea side pavement. Locals say that for some reason there's great local animosity to any plan for a cycleway here; perhaps they think it would give the wuff working classes more access. I'd be more worried about the noise, fumes and poisonous particulates from the practically non-stop stream of two-way traffic on the Strand Road.

Wait until the incinerator starts up. Coupled with the on going issues with the sewage plant I think the Sandymount residents have bigger worries coming down the line..

stampydmonkey

Seaswimmer wrote: »

Wait until the incinerator starts up. Coupled with the on going issues with the sewage plant I think the Sandymount residents have bigger worries coming down the line..

And the glass bottle site sdz!

Chuchote

Weird the way the most beautiful spot in the city has become our waste disposal site. It should be like Sandycove, only more convenient to town.

Seaswimmer

http://www.rte.ie/news/2016/1026/827085-dublin-merrion-gates/

I will probably be retired and finished cycling before this happens..

Mercian Pro

Deedsie wrote: »

Oh God the complaints will be deafening...

But at least it is a proposal. Great to see something being suggested.

Sad that Sutton to Sandycove is basically being shelved for good.

Earliest this could possibly be built is 2021?

There are so many inaccuracies in that article that I would wait to see any consultation document before getting too excited. S2S has for a long time been the urban section of the East Coast Trail and it, or something very like it, will still be needed in any plan.

Mercian Pro

Mercian Pro wrote: »

There are so many inaccuracies in that article that I would wait to see any consultation document before getting too excited.

Didn't have to wait too long. The Dublin Cycling Campaign have posted the following link on their Website: https://www.nationaltransport.ie/consultations/nta-opens-consultation-on-ambitious-proposals-to-tackle-merrion-gate-bottleneck/

On first reading, the section out to and including Merrion Gates is pretty good but beyond there, they have accepted "the economic and environmental constraints" and opted for an inland route alongside or on the Rock Road. Plenty of time to read the full report and to make your views known to the NTA before the 16 December deadline.

Mercian Pro

Seaswimmer wrote: »

I will probably be retired and finished cycling before this happens..

Retirement provides way more opportunities for cycling than work does (unless you're a courier).

But I know what you mean

Chuchote

Seaswimmer wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/news/2016/1026/827085-dublin-merrion-gates/

I will probably be retired and finished cycling before this happens..

Retired, maybe, but finished cycling???

Mercian Pro wrote: »

On first reading, the section out to and including Merrion Gates is pretty good but beyond there, they have accepted "the economic and environmental constraints" and opted for an inland route alongside or on the Rock Road. Plenty of time to read the full report and to make your views known to the NTA before the 16 December deadline.

Environmental constraints certainly, the Slobs are a valuable wildlife terrain of vital importance to many species. I'd be out chaining myself to railings if there was any dream of incursion on it.

It would be perfectly possible to fit a two-way cycleway on the short stretch of road from Merrion to Blackrock Park.

At Sandymount Strand, it would be possible to widen the existing walkway to add a cycleway. This is almost the only place where I'd say a path shouldn't be shared but the walkway should be protected - simply because this is the accepted place for aged and disabled Dubliners to go out for a nice quiet totter along the seafront, and they don't need to be thinking about cyclists. The other option is to turn the footpath on the sea side into a cycle lane; few people walk on that, most walkers who don't take the seafront path will instead use the path fronting the houses.

robindch

Consultations are open with the NTA here:

https://www.nationaltransport.ie/consultations/nta-opens-consultation-on-ambitious-proposals-to-tackle-merrion-gate-bottleneck/

and there's a sixty-page glossy available here:

https://fe49d9ec8511d2dc0553-f8f415f79bf5d37d632aa2f721fb6d7c.ssl.cf3.rackcdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/Sandymount_Blackrock_Study-Public_Consultation_Document.pdf

ted1

A CPO on a section of the garden parallel to Blackrock dart station would enable a decent path from sandycove to Booterstown.

The path beside the road at Newtown smith in Dun laoighre as people keep to the house side or the promenade. And as such could be converted to a cycle path.

It's seems like an expensive option to build the fly over beside the church. Surely the could build it beside the gate and landing where the car wash is beside the garage.

loyatemu

Chuchote wrote: »

Retired, maybe, but finished cycling???

Environmental constraints certainly, the Slobs are a valuable wildlife terrain of vital importance to many species. I'd be out chaining myself to railings if there was any dream of incursion on it.

are you talking about the marsh, or the seaward side of the railway? I don't think a boardwalk along the outside of the railway would have much environmental impact (though I'm not sure how they would get any path back over the railway at Blackrock).

Seaswimmer

loyatemu wrote: »

are you talking about the marsh, or the seaward side of the railway? I don't think a boardwalk along the outside of the railway would have much environmental impact (though I'm not sure how they would get any path back over the railway at Blackrock).

Don't think it would be feasible without a breakwater to the seaward side.

Waves and spray can often be in on the Dart line during a strong easterly.
However it would certainly be a lovely cycle in fine weather.

loyatemu

Seaswimmer wrote: »

Don't think it would be feasible without a breakwater to the seaward side.

Waves and spray can often be in on the Dart line during a strong easterly.
However it would certainly be a lovely cycle in fine weather.

yeah fair point - a floating pontoon?

Mercian Pro

Chuchote wrote: »

Environmental constraints certainly, the Slobs are a valuable wildlife terrain of vital importance to many species. I'd be out chaining myself to railings if there was any dream of incursion on it.

The area normally referred to as the Slobs is Williamstown Creek on the inland side of the railway. What has been dropped from the original S2S plan is a new walkway/cyclepath on a narrow reclaimed strip outside the railway. This would have provided a genuine coastal route similar to what exists from Dollymount to Sutton. The loss of this is a major negative and I find it very hard to believe the potential impact on wildlife justifies the lost opportunity for creating a first class facility. Many other major coastal cities such as Chicago have managed to create waterfront cycle facilities that are attractive to commuters and tourists alike.

It would be perfectly possible to fit a two-way cycleway on the short stretch of road from Merrion to Blackrock Park.

That is what's proposed in the preferred option but it will be a lot less attractive to use than one with views over Dublin Bay.

At Sandymount Strand, it would be possible to widen the existing walkway to add a cycleway. This is almost the only place where I'd say a path shouldn't be shared but the walkway should be protected - simply because this is the accepted place for aged and disabled Dubliners to go out for a nice quiet totter along the seafront, and they don't need to be thinking about cyclists. The other option is to turn the footpath on the sea side into a cycle lane; few people walk on that, most walkers who don't take the seafront path will instead use the path fronting the houses.

Quite a few sections of the Sandymount Strand section show a two way bicycle lane running alongside a footpath. I presume in the final scheme these could be at different levels as has recently been done on the new infill section at Dollymount. More worrying are some sections on Rock Road / Merrion Road where the bike lane is shown running on the inside of the bus lane at the same level.

Chuchote

loyatemu wrote: »

are you talking about the marsh, or the seaward side of the railway? I don't think a boardwalk along the outside of the railway would have much environmental impact (though I'm not sure how they would get any path back over the railway at Blackrock).

This marsh - the Slobs or Williamstown Creek - is the unique landing and shelter place for rare birds. I'd love a seaside cycle, it would be gorgeous; but my needs and desires are not necessarily the most important here.

http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-37775622

World wildlife 'falls by 58% in 40 years'
By Rebecca Morelle
Science Correspondent, BBC News
27 October 2016
Global wildlife populations have fallen by 58% since 1970, a report says.
The Living Planet assessment, by the Zoological Society of London (ZSL) and WWF, suggests that if the trend continues that decline could reach two-thirds among vertebrates by 2020.
The figures suggest that animals living in lakes, rivers and wetlands are suffering the biggest losses.
Human activity, including habitat loss, wildlife trade, pollution and climate change contributed to the declines.
Dr Mike Barrett. head of science and policy at WWF, said: "It's pretty clear under 'business as usual' we will see continued declines in these wildlife populations. But I think now we've reached a point where there isn't really any excuse to let this carry on.

Planet X

Ay.......the lesser spotted, three toed, four eyed, nocturnal toad will put a halt to all this ......cycle path......carry on.

Chuchote

http://coastmonkey.ie/booterstown-marsh/

Booterstown Nature Reserve lies right at the heart of Dublin Bay. This unique wetland is the last remaining salt marsh on the south shore of Dublin and is an extremely important feeding and roosting site for several different species of birds and as well as being home to 68 protected plant species.
The reserve is also an invaluable a refuelling and resting spot for migrating birds including several long distance migratory species like Brent Goose.

Little Egret on Booterstown Marsh Picture by Colum Clarke

Mercian Pro

Chuchote wrote: »

This marsh - the Slobs or Williamstown Creek - is the unique landing and shelter place for rare birds. I'd love a seaside cycle, it would be gorgeous; but my needs and desires are not necessarily the most important here.

http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-37775622

The marsh (Booterstown Nature Reserve) is unaffected by either the current preferred option (a two-way cyclepath alongside Merrion Road) or the original S2S proposal (a walking and cycling route on reclaimed land along Booterstown strand). The Dart line runs between the marsh and the strand. Have a look at the maps in the report and things might be a bit clearer.

Chuchote

Mercian Pro wrote: »

The marsh (Booterstown Nature Reserve) is unaffected by either the current preferred option (a two-way cyclepath alongside Merrion Road) or the original S2S proposal (a walking and cycling route on reclaimed land along Booterstown strand). The Dart line runs between the marsh and the strand. Have a look at the maps in the report and things might be a bit clearer.

OK, am I right in thinking that the plan (if I'm understanding the map, it's not that clear to me) is for a boardwalk on the sea side of the railway line? That would be fine in terms of not disturbing the wild creatures of Booterstown and very pleasant to cycle, but as others have said, it could become dangerously slippery if it's wetted by spindrift or even waves during the equinoctal high tides?

josip

Chuchote wrote: »

OK, am I right in thinking that the plan (if I'm understanding the map, it's not that clear to me) is for a boardwalk on the sea side of the railway line? That would be fine in terms of not disturbing the wild creatures of Booterstown and very pleasant to cycle, but as others have said, it could become dangerously slippery if it's wetted by spindrift or even waves during the equinoctal high tides?

or even by rain?

Carawaystick

I'd imagine a coating of antiskid would prevent loss of grip by pretty much anything short of a covering of seaweed or jellyfish

Seaswimmer

Chuchote wrote: »

OK, am I right in thinking that the plan (if I'm understanding the map, it's not that clear to me) is for a boardwalk on the sea side of the railway line? That would be fine in terms of not disturbing the wild creatures of Booterstown and very pleasant to cycle, but as others have said, it could become dangerously slippery if it's wetted by spindrift or even waves during the equinoctal high tides?

It looks to me as if that is not the preferred option. In the document it does say that this option was examined but the "emerging preferred option" is a 2 way cycleway along the Rock Road. Page 22/23 of the document seem to confirm this.

https://fe49d9ec8511d2dc0553-f8f415f...n_Document.pdf

So as nice as a boardwalk along the sea side of the Dart line may be it dosent look like its under consideration.

Mercian Pro

Chuchote wrote: »

OK, am I right in thinking that the plan (if I'm understanding the map, it's not that clear to me) is for a boardwalk on the sea side of the railway line? That would be fine in terms of not disturbing the wild creatures of Booterstown and very pleasant to cycle, but as others have said, it could become dangerously slippery if it's wetted by spindrift or even waves during the equinoctal high tides?

NO - there is no boardwalk proposed anywhere near Booterstown. There is a short section of boardwalk proposed at the Sandymount end of Strand Road but this is for pedestrians only.

ted1

Seaswimmer wrote: »

It looks to me as if that is not the preferred option. In the document it does say that this option was examined but the "emerging preferred option" is a 2 way cycleway along the Rock Road. Page 22/23 of the document seem to confirm this.

https://fe49d9ec8511d2dc0553-f8f415f...n_Document.pdf

So as nice as a boardwalk along the sea side of the Dart line may be it dosent look like its under consideration.

I think the Liffey route is going with option 5.....

Chuchote

ted1 wrote: »

I think the Liffey route is going with option 5.....

Which one is Option 5? I've lost count at this stage. Is that the one with the cycleway along the riverside?

ted1

Chuchote wrote: »

Which one is Option 5? I've lost count at this stage. Is that the one with the cycleway along the riverside?

I think it's the one with the cable car going over the Liffey !!! Simply highlighting that's it's not ajeays the top options they go with

PaulieC

Chuchote wrote: »

Is there any plan for a cycleway along Sandymount Strand to join up with the Dodder path at Ringsend on one end and the Blackrock Park path at Booterstown at the other?
This is one of the few places where experienced cyclists fairly often cycle on a pedestrian path, because the road is too scary - narrow and with heavy traffic.
The pedestrian path by the sea needs (imho) to be kept for walkers, because it's traditionally a place where people walk when they're very old and when they're recovering from operations and illness.
But there's plenty of room on the land side for a separated cycling path along the sea.
When you leave the sea at the Ringsend end, there's a horrible road where people head for the Port Tunnel in cars and trucks. And on the Booterstown end you have to navigate the nasty Merrion Road. It would be great to get a separate cycleway section along there.

I cycle from Ringsend to Leopardstown everyday along this road and have never had a problem, either on the "narrow with heavy traffic" Strand Road section or "navigating" the "nasty" Merrion road section. The cyclists I do see on the path are usually those with kids bringing them to school.

You can also avoid the "horrible" section going towards the east link by going through Ringsend. I'm not an experienced cyclist though, so could be wrong about the above...

It's good to see the new plans though, especially the proposal to remove the Merrion Gates. I can't see too many folks ho live up that end of the Strand Road objecting to that plan.

Mercian Pro

PaulieC wrote: »

I can't see too many folks ho live up that end of the Strand Road objecting to that plan.

O yeah?

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/dublin-4-residents-shocked-at-plan-to-fix-merrion-gates-bottleneck-1.2847434

Chuchote

Yup:

A Merrion Road homeowner, whose front garden would be more than halved by the scheme, said he was concerned his house would be rendered unsellable.
“It’s a massive shock. We knew nothing about this and already they have a preferred route.
“It’s going to affect me quite badly because it looks like they want 1.18 metres of the front garden which will make the parking space useless. This is a family home and people with families have cars.”

magicbastarder

to be fair, there is a point to be made about that. they should move quickly to a decision about whether to proceed; anyone who was thinking of selling their house in the area now has a valid concern that there's a huge amount of uncertainty, which would make their house a much less appealing prospect for a buyer.

Carawaystick

Yet a lot of the value to the house on Merrion road is due to the infrastructure provided already....

PaulieC

Mercian Pro wrote: »

O yeah?

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/dublin-4-residents-shocked-at-plan-to-fix-merrion-gates-bottleneck-1.2847434

I mean the end that will be made a cul-de-sac as a result of the implementation of this plan. The gates will be gone and no traffic outside their doors anymore.

buffalo

Deedsie wrote: »

I think it would be a good idea for people here to make your views known through the consultation process - submissions close on the 16th Dec 2016.

I have read a lot of people saying the cycling/pedestrian underpass section of the project to be cut to save money. I think this would ruin many aspects of the project.

It'd be quite amusing for a "cycling" project to have the cycling aspect cut.

Seaswimmer

Deedsie wrote: »

I think it would be a good idea for people here to make your views known through the consultation process - submissions close on the 16th Dec 2016.

I have read a lot of people saying the cycling/pedestrian underpass section of the project to be cut to save money. I think this would ruin many aspects of the project.

I couldn't see them making pedestrians in particular walk a considerable way off their route just to get to a bus stop on Merrion Road for example or down to the shop at Texaco.

Also it would completely throw out the preferred option in the design document.

But stranger things have happened.

Mercian Pro

Just a reminder that the deadline for submissions on the Sandymount to Seapoint cycleway is Friday next. The S2S group, who have been campaigning for this for fifteen years, has produced an interesting briefing document on the history of the project and on the pros and cons of the current proposals. It's on http://s2s.ie/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/161124-S2S-Briefing-Paper-Nov-2016..pdf

Mercian Pro

Deedsie wrote: »

Is there any date we might hear some news on the Merrion Gates proposal?

I think one of the reports on the opening of the Dollymount part of S2S mentioned two months. Hopefully they will rethink the Merrion Road section and go back to making it a coastal route.

Chuchote

Mercian Pro wrote: »

I think one of the reports on the opening of the Dollymount part of S2S mentioned two months. Hopefully they will rethink the Merrion Road section and go back to making it a coastal route.

Build a tunnel for the motorcars.

Mercian Pro

Yet another reason why the S2S should follow the coastline and not the Merrion Road:
http://irishcycle.com/2018/03/05/stand-alone-coastal-walls-needed-to-protect-dart-line-if-dublin-bay-greenway-put-inland/

Thanks to the Green Party was highlighting it and to Cian Ginty of IrishCycle.com for spreading the word.

Mercian Pro

Latest news from the S2S lobby group:

"S2S – New Plans Proposed
Following a meeting between The National Transport Authority (NTA) and Councillors from Dublin City Council, (DCC) and Dun Laoghaire Rathdown Co Council (DLRCC), agreement has been reached on a new approach to advance the S2S project. This would complete two further sections on the seafront; one between Irishtown and Merrion Gates and the other between Blackrock and Seapoint and is an exciting prospect for supporters of the S2S. See More here:
http://s2s.ie/s2s-new-plans-proposed-may-2018/ "

While it is still proposed to have the section of the S2S between Merrion Gates and Booterstown running alongside the busy with Rock Road, the other proposals are definitely steps in the right direction and will hopefully happen soon.

Together with significant progress on the Royal Canal Greenway and a much improved design for the Fairview to the Quays route, things are looking up.