Man arrested after suspected genital mutilation on two-year-old girl

The flying mouse

AN AFRICAN MAN was arrested in Dublin this week after reports that a two-year-old girl had been genitally mutilated.The Irish Mirror reports that the man is Somalian and that forensic teams had searched an apartment in Crumlin yesterday.

Sources confirmed that the assault had been on a young girl who is recovering in hospital. It is believed she had been the victim of female genital mutilation.

http://www.thejournal.ie/arrest-over-fgm-crumlin-2994388-Sep2016/


WTF, This is done on some so called religious grounds ?

About 130 million women in the world are circumcised, which practically always occurs among in cultures that are also circumcising all the males. In contrast, far more men worldwide are circumcised: approximately 30 percent of all males in the world, which accounts for at least a billion males, or 9 to10 times as many males as females are circumcised today.

So AH what's your opinion's on children, male and female being circumcised ?

My opinion is unless its medically necessary, is leave the body alone...

The_Kew_Tour

Racist!!!!

Ugh, barbaric...but I wince at the sight of babies with pierced ears...

Atlantic Dawn

It's their culture.

KERSPLAT!

I'm not reading that but it sounds horrific, absolutely barbaric. Poor little girl

EndaHonesty

Cutting pieces of flesh and skin off children is weird.

People who carry out these "procedures" are weirdos.

padraig.od

Racist OP.

Ilovemybricks

Horrendous stuff. It's becoming more and more common in Ireland, unfortunately.

This service will provide high quality medical and psychological care to the more than 3,780 women and girls in Ireland who have undergone FGM. The first specialist primary care service of its kind in the country, it is a landmark step forward in Ireland’s efforts to address the issue of FGM.

http://www.thejournal.ie/fgm-clinic-irelanad-1450363-May2014/

It's good to see that the Gardai are making arrests though. It took the British decades to fully face up to the issue. It was illegal for thirty years, hundreds of thousands had the horrific procedure forced upon them and they only secured their first conviction last year.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/feb/04/first-female-genital-mutilation-prosecution-dhanuson-dharmasena-fgm

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_genital_mutilation_in_the_United_Kingdom

KERSPLAT!

Ilovemybricks wrote: »

Horrendous stuff. It's becoming more and more common in Ireland, unfortunately.



http://www.thejournal.ie/fgm-clinic-irelanad-1450363-May2014/

It's good to see that the Gardai are making arrests though. It took the British decades to fully face up to the issue. It was illegal for thirty years, hundreds of thousands had the horrific procedure forced upon them and they only secured their first conviction last year.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/feb/04/first-female-genital-mutilation-prosecution-dhanuson-dharmasena-fgm

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_genital_mutilation_in_the_United_Kingdom

Is it becoming more common or more women are arriving to Ireland after this has happened to them? Genuine question, I would have thought the after but maybe I'm wrong.

charlietheminxx

This horrifies me beyond words. It's so wrong and dangerous and cruel. It's good to see the gardai are actually doing something though, there needs to be massive repercussions for arranging or performing FGM so other children/women don't have to go through the horror of it.

Ilovemybricks

KERSPLAT! wrote: »

Is it becoming more common or more women are arriving to Ireland after this has happened to them? Genuine question, I would have thought the after but maybe I'm wrong.

A mixture of both, I'd say. It's a cultural thing so some groups would bring the young girl "home" to have the procedure carried out. It is now illegal for anyone resident in Ireland to take a girl abroad to have FGM performed on her.

Jesus.

"We can bring our population back up to pre-famine numbers by resettling 3 million refugees here" - Liam Cunningham

Atoms for Peace

Jesus. wrote: »

"We can bring our population back up to pre-famine numbers by resettling 3 million refugees here" - Liam Cunningham

It would enrich our cultural diversity no end, just like Lebanon.

Jesus.

The feminists don't know what to do with cases like these. Just stay quiet I suppose.

Mod: Banned for being a troll.

Annasopra

Jesus. wrote: »

The feminists don't know what to do with cases like these. Just stay quiet I suppose.

I dont know any feminists that condone fgm

dav3

It's a barbaric practice. If you're a jew or a muslim it doesn't matter, any attempts by a person to perform mgm or fgm in this country should be punished with a harsh prison sentence.

What could be an interesting discussion on genital mutilation is now being twisted into something it's not by very sad individuals. Can we have at least one discussion without people screaming for jews and muslims to be deported or barred from entering the country.

The J Stands for Jay

charlietheminxx wrote: »

This horrifies me beyond words. It's so wrong and dangerous and cruel. It's good to see the gardai are actually doing something though, there needs to be massive repercussions for arranging or performing GM so other people don't have to go through the horror of it.

FYP

Jesus.

They don't condone it but given that their very ideology is about respect for women (and presumably their body parts) you'd think they'd be the very people who'd be hopping mad at stories like this. But they can't because it contradicts their advocacy of immigration and Islam. Its a most strange phenomenon.

Outlaw Pete

I remember a little boy of only a month or so old dying about ten years ago from a botched male circumcision here. Some surgeons came forward at the time saying iy should be banned, but it's just as common here now as it was then. Lots of private hospitals advertise it as available once the boy is over six months old.

Don't the Jewish faith believe it should be done on the eight day of life though?

Jesus.

dav3 wrote: »

What could be an interesting discussion on genital mutilation is now being twisted into something it's not by very sad individuals. Can we have at least one discussion without people screaming for jews and muslims to be deported or barred from entering the country.

How can you or why would you want to? The very existence of such practices in Ireland - and its becoming more widespread - is because of Muslim immigration (there's very few Jews here).

What's with the head in the sand stuff? Why not cut it off at source?

Jesus.

Jesus. wrote: »

The feminists don't know what to do with cases like these. Just stay quiet I suppose.

I'm thinking most of these practices take place in very patriarchal societies, not in societies where women are equal and feminists have a voice.

Ilovemybricks

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm thinking most of these practices take place in very patriarchal societies, not in societies where women are equal and feminists have a voice.

Very common place in Sweden and the UK now.

Jesus.

Conor I'm talking about here in Ireland.

Ilovemybricks

Ilovemybricks wrote: »

Very common place in Sweden and the UK now.

For society, also read community.

I doubt it's very much practised by those communities who listen to and accept feminist advocates.

conorhal

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

It's their culture.

And you have to respect that aparently....

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/jury-clears-nigerian-man-involved-in-circumcision-death-case-25960678.html

A NIGERIAN man who carried out a circumcision on a month-old baby, who later bled to death, walked free from court yesterday.
The solicitor said his client wished to thank the jury who he said had a very difficult task. "They have had to shirk off their Western mores and ways and have done a magnificent job as far as Osagie is concerned.
"It has been a real test of justice here because of the difficulty from whence an all-white jury were coming," Mr Chesser said.
"The judge put it so simply when he said they had to shake off their Western values and put themselves in the place of Osagie here."

What that man is doing in a courtroom still is a mystery to me, but he's a prime example of the kind of wooly liberalism that thinks the law shouldn't apply to minorities, which is in fact the paternalistic racism of low expections.



The only way this stops is this. If there are 3,000 victims of FGM in this country there should be 6,000 parents in jail right now. That would halt the practice pretty quickly.

Unfortunately our politicians, media and chattering classes are too afraid of being called racist to actually tackle this abuse.

I can only assume this procedure was requested by the parents, so why have they not been arrested? Politicians that bleat on about institutional abuse by the church and then turn a blind eye to this are hypocrites.

brevity

It should be banned. It's absolutely barbaric. Same for circumcisions.

If grown up adults want to have that done to themselves then fine, but to do it to children...they should be locked up.

silverharp

the mother must have been in on it, she ought to be arrested as well

Ilovemybricks

conorhal wrote: »

And you have to respect that aparently....

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/jury-clears-nigerian-man-involved-in-circumcision-death-case-25960678.html

A NIGERIAN man who carried out a circumcision on a month-old baby, who later bled to death, walked free from court yesterday.
The solicitor said his client wished to thank the jury who he said had a very difficult task. "They have had to shirk off their Western mores and ways and have done a magnificent job as far as Osagie is concerned.
"It has been a real test of justice here because of the difficulty from whence an all-white jury were coming," Mr Chesser said.
"The judge put it so simply when he said they had to shake off their Western values and put themselves in the place of Osagie here."

What that man is doing in a courtroom still is a mystery to me, but he's a prime example of the kind of wooly liberalism that thinks the law shouldn't apply to minorities, which is in fact the paternalistic racism of low expections.



The only way this stops is this. If there are 3,000 victims of FGM in this country there should be 6,000 parents in jail right now. That would halt the practice pretty quickly.

Unfortunately our politicians, media and chattering classes are too afraid of being called racist to actually tackle this abuse.

I can only assume this procedure was requested by the parents, so why have they not been arrested? Politicians that bleat on about institutional abuse by the church and then turn a blind eye to this are hypocrites.

That a judge said that is beyond messed up.

childsplay

silverharp wrote:

the mother must have been in on it, she ought to be arrested as well

Would she have had much say in the matter? It's my understanding that the father is usually dominant in African culture. Also, ld factor in deep religious beliefs held by both parents. We might not understand it but ultimately there is a fair bit of pressure on mothers to let this happen to their daughters.

I am not condoning this practice. I see it as an abuse of the child. My thoughts on a solution are education, education and education.

Wibbs

silverharp wrote: »

the mother must have been in on it, she ought to be arrested as well

In the African cultures that perform FGM it's overwhelmingly the women who perform and support it. Male circumcision in cultures like the US it's more both genders. Cultural influence is strong mind you. EG Oprah Winfrey came out strongly against FGM naturally enough and threw money and resources at the cause, yet because she's a Yank and lopping bits of boys mickeys is culturally acceptable and promoted, the same Winfrey also promoted the sale of a face cream that contained compounds harvested from discarded children's foreskins. Irony bypass time.

This is not some victimhood derby where we need to amp up the suffering of any group to win some BS position. We should all strive to stop all childhood mutilations regardless of gender, culture or creed(inc piercings BTW). Leave that crap in the dark ages of bronze age ignorance where it belongs. Your culture or creed demands it? Well then that aspect of your culture or creed is bloody retarded and needs an update.

Speaking of retarded, that judge was. Unreal. *headshake*

silverharp

childsplay wrote: »

Would she have had much say in the matter? It's my understanding that the father is usually dominant in African culture. Also, ld factor in deep religious beliefs held by both parents. We might not understand it but ultimately there is a fair bit of pressure on mothers to let this happen to their daughters.

I am not condoning this practice. I see it as an abuse of the child. My thoughts on a solution are education, education and education.

firstly it doesnt matter, she would have known it was going to happen and she was only a phone call away from reporting this. Secondly I'd imagine family dynamics can be complex where mothers even in Islam have a lot of subtle behind the scenes power. In their own country Grandmother "matriarchs" can often be the tyrant in the background instigating honor killings etc.

AlekSmart

Wibbs wrote: »

In the African cultures that perform FGM it's overwhelmingly the women who perform and support it. Male circumcision in cultures like the US it's more both genders. Cultural influence is strong mind you. ...........

..............This is not some victimhood derby where we need to amp up the suffering of any group to win some BS position. We should all strive to stop all childhood mutilations regardless of gender, culture or creed(inc piercings BTW). Leave that crap in the dark ages of bronze age ignorance where it belongs. Your culture or creed demands it? Well then that aspect of your culture or creed is bloody retarded and needs an update.

Speaking of retarded, that judge was. Unreal. *headshake*

Well said that Man...should be a sticky,or at least printed up on waterproof cards and scattered across the Irish Naval Services current Area of Operations in The Mediterranian.

Whether Frau Merkel or Mr Sutherland like it or not,their invitees MUST now be made aware that their mere presence in a Western Culture will not automatically trigger some mad rush to modify and/or abandon the advances of a thousand years,simply to embrace some highly dubious and arguable contentions written in a "Holy Book" from whatever source...we've struggled far too long and painfully to drag ourselves from beneath one such system to want to immediately re-enter another far more regressive one !

coolbeans

Jesus. wrote: »

The feminists don't know what to do with cases like these. Just stay quiet I suppose.

You're talking ****e as usual with your generalisations. I'm a (male) feminist and would have no problem banning that backward nonsense. If they wanna come here fine, but laws of the host country apply. No medieval customs or cultural mores. If they don't like that maybe they should stay in whatever God forsaken mess of a place they come from.

childsplay

silverharp wrote:

firstly it doesnt matter, she would have known it was going to happen

People know all kinds of bad things are going to happen or are happening. Doesn't mean they will do anything to stop it from happening. They allow it to happen for various reasons and the reason l am suggesting is key here is religion. When a whole community is at the same thing it becomes an acceptable practice to that community. If it's accepted then who's going to report it? And further to that, is a person going to be willing to go against the crowd? My opinion would be that they are not likely to because people are people at the end of the day.

El_Duderino 09

Atlantic Dawn wrote:

It's their culture.

Yes it is

EndaHonesty wrote:

People who carry out these "procedures" are weirdos.

They are wierdos and most cultures do it or have done it at some point. Most cultures are wierdos.

In the specific case you need to apply the laws and punish the man in question. In a broader sense you need to engage with the communities to work with them.

They want to act out their primitive culture and we won't let them. We should encourage them to do something else that satisfies their ritual without harming anyone.

Samaris

This is partly why we don't get to discuss it. First page and there's people trying to push their own agendas. Congratulations, you've just used a child's suffering for your only very vaguely related political "point" about feminists.

Christ.

FGM is a barbaric practice. I am not 100% sure where I stand on the awfulness of MGM, mostly because I don't know a great deal about it. It would appear at -best- unnecessary to me, and it also appears that it overall has more negatives than positives to it, barring medical cases which aren't the point here. The sheer damage that FGM causes by design makes it absolutely beyond defense. I hope the book is thrown at the people involved in this. I do agree that education is needed as well as just plain banning it. There are ways around the ban. It has got to be understood -why- this is such a terrible thing to do to your daughter though to be sure that it does die a death.

suicide_circus

conorhal wrote: »

And you have to respect that aparently....

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/jury-clears-nigerian-man-involved-in-circumcision-death-case-25960678.html

A NIGERIAN man who carried out a circumcision on a month-old baby, who later bled to death, walked free from court yesterday.
The solicitor said his client wished to thank the jury who he said had a very difficult task. "They have had to shirk off their Western mores and ways and have done a magnificent job as far as Osagie is concerned.
"It has been a real test of justice here because of the difficulty from whence an all-white jury were coming," Mr Chesser said.
"The judge put it so simply when he said they had to shake off their Western values and put themselves in the place of Osagie here."

What that man is doing in a courtroom still is a mystery to me, but he's a prime example of the kind of wooly liberalism that thinks the law shouldn't apply to minorities, which is in fact the paternalistic racism of low expections.



The only way this stops is this. If there are 3,000 victims of FGM in this country there should be 6,000 parents in jail right now. That would halt the practice pretty quickly.

Unfortunately our politicians, media and chattering classes are too afraid of being called racist to actually tackle this abuse.

I can only assume this procedure was requested by the parents, so why have they not been arrested? Politicians that bleat on about institutional abuse by the church and then turn a blind eye to this are hypocrites.

good god almighty...that judge...I'm lost for words

Colser

I couldn't care less about culture or tradition etc,all I see when I read this is a man mutilating a little girl,one can only imagine the pain involved.How can someone do that to any child...it's totally barbaric and I don't buy into the culture reason,he's a total p***K imo and l hope he's locked up but I'm guessing that won't happen because of his culture etc.

cerastes

conorhal wrote: »

And you have to respect that aparently....

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/jury-clears-nigerian-man-involved-in-circumcision-death-case-25960678.html

A NIGERIAN man who carried out a circumcision on a month-old baby, who later bled to death, walked free from court yesterday.
The solicitor said his client wished to thank the jury who he said had a very difficult task. "They have had to shirk off their Western mores and ways and have done a magnificent job as far as Osagie is concerned.
"It has been a real test of justice here because of the difficulty from whence an all-white jury were coming," Mr Chesser said.
"The judge put it so simply when he said they had to shake off their Western values and put themselves in the place of Osagie here."

What that man is doing in a courtroom still is a mystery to me, but he's a prime example of the kind of wooly liberalism that thinks the law shouldn't apply to minorities, which is in fact the paternalistic racism of low expections.



The only way this stops is this. If there are 3,000 victims of FGM in this country there should be 6,000 parents in jail right now. That would halt the practice pretty quickly.

Unfortunately our politicians, media and chattering classes are too afraid of being called racist to actually tackle this abuse.

I can only assume this procedure was requested by the parents, so why have they not been arrested? Politicians that bleat on about institutional abuse by the church and then turn a blind eye to this are hypocrites.

If that isn't illegal it should be,
This is horrific and disturbing, if I was on that jury I could never have been convinced he didn't deserve a custodial sentence.

Not because I am unaware of the practice being a cultural thing in their home country (it isn't here and they should respect our laWs and traditions as they are now), AND not because I dont agree with it, OR because it isn't a cultural thing here, even aside from it being a barbaric practice seemingly not necessary for medical reasons,
HE CARRIED IT OUT ON A KITCHEN TABLE? OR THAT HE OR ANYONE WOULD CARRY IT OUT AT ALL, IS IT NOT ILLEGAL TO CARRY OUT MEDICAL PROCEDURES FOR WHATEVER REASON (RELIGIOUS OR MEDICAL) UNLESS YOU ARE QUALIFIED AND REGISTERED?! AND THEN ONLY IN AN APPROPRIATE SETTING/ORGANISATION?

The flying mouse

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Racist!!!!

padraig.od wrote: »

Racist OP.

In what way ?

GLaDOS

Absolutely barbaric, hopefully he gets a long prison sentence.

While I don't agree with male circumcision at birth (excepting medical reasons), it isn't on the same planet as FGM and can't really be compared.

Teyla Emmagan

That poor child. I am really glad the Guards are involved and I hope he gets the book thrown at him. And the mother for permitting this to happen. We just can't have this happening here. It's horrific enough to think it happens at all. I wonder how the Gardai were notified. The child must have needed medical treatment afterwards

We should also have laws to prevent this happening to any Irish citizen in another country. In the UK they fly their girls back to Africa for cutting holidays. You should be jailed for allowing that happen too. It might be cultural but it's a sickening practice. Interfering with a child's genitals on any level where not required for health reasons is just morally fcuking wrong.

Any immigrant from a country that supports FGM should have to go though reeducation when they get here. This sort of backwards barbaric women subjugating ****e cannot be allowed to happen here. I could cry for that poor child

Vic_08

suicide_circus wrote: »

good god almighty...that judge...I'm lost for words

Really? I'm not even the slightest bit surprised. Par for the course with the Irish Judiciary.

"If the Irish government is ready to assist me, I will prove to them I am one of the expert circumcisionists in the world. If they really want me to continue, they should give me direction and I would be delighted."

Just add a request for a €10,000 wire transfer, if there wasn't a dead baby it would almost be funny.

Grayson

silverharp wrote: »

firstly it doesnt matter, she would have known it was going to happen and she was only a phone call away from reporting this. Secondly I'd imagine family dynamics can be complex where mothers even in Islam have a lot of subtle behind the scenes power. In their own country Grandmother "matriarchs" can often be the tyrant in the background instigating honor killings etc.

It's not Islam though. Well, it is for male circumcision. Female circumcision is a cultural thing. There are Christians and animalists in those areas that do it to.

Both male and female circumcision are ghastly practices and have no place in our society.

Harvey Normal

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

I dont know any feminists that condone fgm

Plenty do. Germaine Greer for instance. Others stay relatively silent.

Right2Write

If he's guilty, castrate him and get the message out there that this is not acceptable in Ireland. Feck their culture, as misogynistic as the catholic church here.

Harvey Normal

conorhal wrote: »

And you have to respect that aparently....

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/jury-clears-nigerian-man-involved-in-circumcision-death-case-25960678.html

A NIGERIAN man who carried out a circumcision on a month-old baby, who later bled to death, walked free from court yesterday.
The solicitor said his client wished to thank the jury who he said had a very difficult task. "They have had to shirk off their Western mores and ways and have done a magnificent job as far as Osagie is concerned.
"It has been a real test of justice here because of the difficulty from whence an all-white jury were coming," Mr Chesser said.
"The judge put it so simply when he said they had to shake off their Western values and put themselves in the place of Osagie here."

What that man is doing in a courtroom still is a mystery to me, but he's a prime example of the kind of wooly liberalism that thinks the law shouldn't apply to minorities, which is in fact the paternalistic racism of low expections.



The only way this stops is this. If there are 3,000 victims of FGM in this country there should be 6,000 parents in jail right now. That would halt the practice pretty quickly.

Unfortunately our politicians, media and chattering classes are too afraid of being called racist to actually tackle this abuse.

I can only assume this procedure was requested by the parents, so why have they not been arrested? Politicians that bleat on about institutional abuse by the church and then turn a blind eye to this are hypocrites.

That "liberal" judge is saying, basically, that there is a parallel legal system in Ireland and that a child of a different culture (generally of a different race too) can be mutilated and killed. He probably prides himself on his anti-racism too.

Grayson

Vic_08 wrote: »

Really? I'm not even the slightest bit surprised. Par for the course with the Irish Judiciary.

It was a jury trial. He was found not guilty by 12 irish people, not by the judge.

cerastes wrote: »

If that isn't illegal it should be,
This is horrific and disturbing, if I was on that jury I could never have been convinced he didn't deserve a custodial sentence.

To be fair, to be on a jury you have to be able to hear something and make your mind up. Impartiality and all that.
Having said that, I think maybe you meant to say you can't imagine anything which would have excused it. I have to agree with that. The article is very light on the arguments and evidence that was put forward. I can't imagine what the jury heard that enabled them to make that decision but I'd like to hear it.

Samaris

Harvey Normal wrote: »

Plenty do. Germaine Greer for instance. Others stay relatively silent.

And others have to yell over the voices accusing them of not saying anything just to be heard over the accusations of not saying anything :pac:

Also, if she -is- a proponent of it, screw her.

Jesus.

coolbeans wrote: »

You're talking ****e as usual with your generalisations. I'm a (male) feminist and would have no problem banning that backward nonsense. If they wanna come here fine, but laws of the host country apply. No medieval customs or cultural mores. If they don't like that maybe they should stay in whatever God forsaken mess of a place they come from.

You're a male feminist? Sorry but that's a bullsh1t label.

Your solution is fatally flawed immediately. "If they wanna come here fine". No, not fine. Why import such a culture in the first place?

bodice ripper

In shop where we also had piercing, we would fairly routinely have mothers bringing in newborns asking to have their ears done. Noses too. Horrific.