Galway traffic: the solution

beardybrewer

Start from 1:20. This guy knows what to do.

Mrs OBumble

Eh?



I guess it's no worse than anything the road-designers have come up with lately:

ben.schlomo

Worked fine for me.

beardybrewer

Was my fault. I tried to edit the url to start a minute in and it didn't work for a minute. She's so damned quick I didn't have a chance to fix it before she already posted. German level efficiency if you ask me. Suspicious.

Panthro

We build a massive skytrain that runs right round the city, with stops at major points along the route. We have the trains pulling up typically every 3mins, with more pick ups at peak times. these stops we also have bus depots with regular buses which bring you into the city centre and oit again.
All will have a combined ticket system which will allow you to hop on and off as much as you like. you can buy one daily, weekly or monthly pending on your needs.

snubbleste

Panthro wrote: »

We build a massive skytrain that runs right round the city, with stops at major points along the route. We have the trains pulling up typically every 3mins, with more pick ups at peak times. these stops we also have bus depots with regular buses which bring you into the city centre and oit again.
All will have a combined ticket system which will allow you to hop on and off as much as you like. you can buy one daily, weekly or monthly pending on your needs.

aka Monorail

Panthro

snubbleste wrote: »

aka Monorail

Or skytrain

ben.schlomo

Does every Galway thread now need a Monorail mention.

Mervyn Skidmore

ben.schlomo wrote: »

Does every Galway thread now need a Monorail mention.

Yep, most Galway threads seem to derail.

Panthro

In my defense, i suggested a sky train...!

flazio

What about us brain dead slobs?

ben.schlomo

The cosmic ballet goes on.

UsBus

well this was a great thread to click into..........:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

ronnie3585

flazio wrote: »

What about us brain dead slobs?

You'll be given cushy jobs.

SkyTrain, you say?

Panthro

Ara yeah

BrokenArrows

The solution to the traffic problem of galway will never happen by just changing rules, traffic directions, roundabouts/lights.

The core problem is the location and number of physical roads.

Pretty much regardless of where you want to go in the city you need to take the same roads, even if you dont want to go into the city but from East to West you still need to come almost right into the city using the same roads as everyone else.

One thing which would help would be a south side link from East to West, say from Ballybane Roundabout, down to the new docks and out onto the Salthill road/back into the city.

This allows people to travel East/West without having to deal with the traffic of people coming into the city from Tuam direction, allows people living in the east working on the West side of the city to access it without having to travel through the city centre and people living in the west to travel east to places like parkmore without adding to traffic in the centre.

There would obviously need to be a tunnel to continue to allow harbor access and there are plenty of houses in the way.

The reality of the situation is that its not going to be cheap to fix and hard decisions need to be made.

Mrs OBumble

BrokenArrows wrote: »

The reality of the situation is that its not going to be cheap to fix and hard decisions need to be made.

We've seen this idea before ... http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=94591635&postcount=562

Except that I think you may possibly be serious!


You're right that hard decisions need to be made. Decisions that will cut fossil fuel use and car dependence. Decisions to provide viable public transport, and to use land in ways that make public transport feasible. Decisions to encourage people to make a living in their own communities - and to encourage employers to hire locally.

Whereisgalway

You're right that hard decisions need to be made. Decisions that will cut fossil fuel use and car dependence. Decisions to provide viable public transport, and to use land in ways that make public transport feasible. Decisions to encourage people to make a living in their own communities - and to encourage employers to hire locally.[/quote]

So many faults in this

Redhairedguy

Whereisgalway wrote: »

So many faults in this

Not really much can be down with a statement like this, to be honest. Please give us your opinion that we might understand your position and why you believe there are faults in Mrs. OB's post.

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

You're right that hard decisions need to be made. Decisions that will cut fossil fuel use and car dependence. Decisions to provide viable public transport, and to use land in ways that make public transport feasible. Decisions to encourage people to make a living in their own communities - and to encourage employers to hire locally.

I think is all well and good when you're focusing just on a city centre, and not taking into consideration the hinterland of Galway, and the necessary commuting patterns of people who work in the city but live more rurally. For example, my friend's parents own a house out near Loughrea, yet one works in Parkmore, the other in Furbo. Neither of these people particularly want to make this commute every morning, but that's where the work is.

If they lived in the city and could avail of the (limited) public transport service to get where they need to go, then that would be grand and your point would have legs; as it stands however, there is absolutely no way for them to get to work without reliance on their individual cars. Nor are they going to relocate with two younger children in schools in the area they live.

These people are not in any way unique. In fact, I think you'll find that the majority of people fit into a similar situation; a guy I work with commutes from Ennis every day; again because this is the direction his career has taken him.

I have to interject and remind you all that traffic in Galway is *not* exclusively a Galway city problem. Lough Corrib and Galway bay throttle all Connemara-East traffic through the city. Non motor vehicle options are not open to them.

On top of that, we have to think how Galway will grow in the next 20, 50, 100 years, and what land, which is now green fields, will become the new suburb communities?

Mrs OBumble

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

We've seen this idea before ... http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=94591635&postcount=562

Except that I think you may possibly be serious!


You're right that hard decisions need to be made. Decisions that will cut fossil fuel use and car dependence. follow MY anti car agenda. Decisions to provide viable public transport, and to use land in ways that make public transport feasible. Decisions to encourage people to make a living in their own communities - and to encourage employers to hire locally. f*ck off back to boggerland & give the jobs to us city folk who don't need filthy, scumbag cars.

Showing the sub-text I'm reading from that. I'm sure it didn't sound anything like that in your head, but it's what people hear when they read this political language.

Colinoh

Galway with a skytrain would be like a mule with a spinning wheel.

talking_walnut

Deleted User wrote: »

I have to interject and remind you all that traffic in Galway is *not* exclusively a Galway city problem. Lough Corrib and Galway bay throttle all Connemara-East traffic through the city. Non motor vehicle options are not open to them.

On top of that, we have to think how Galway will grow in the next 20, 50, 100 years, and what land, which is now green fields, will become the new suburb communities?

If I was still living in the country, I'd be shouting even louder for better transport systems in the city. Rural dwellers are always going to be more dependant on cars due to the dispersed dwelling patterns, but mass transport systems make sense in more densely populated areas. There's no need for everybody in Knocknacarra to drive their own car to the East of the city for work every day. If most of them took the bus (or whatever), it would free up space on the roads for people that actually need to drive to work.

Mrs OBumble

[Deleted User] wrote: »

On top of that, we have to think how Galway will grow in the next 20, 50, 100 years, and what land, which is now green fields, will become the new suburb communities?

Ardaun is planned already, on the east of the city ie where the jobs are, and with public-transport an integral part of the design.

GekkePrutser

BrokenArrows wrote: »

The solution to the traffic problem of galway will never happen by just changing rules, traffic directions, roundabouts/lights.

The core problem is the location and number of physical roads.

Pretty much regardless of where you want to go in the city you need to take the same roads, even if you dont want to go into the city but from East to West you still need to come almost right into the city using the same roads as everyone else.

One thing which would help would be a south side link from East to West, say from Ballybane Roundabout, down to the new docks and out onto the Salthill road/back into the city.

This allows people to travel East/West without having to deal with the traffic of people coming into the city from Tuam direction, allows people living in the east working on the West side of the city to access it without having to travel through the city centre and people living in the west to travel east to places like parkmore without adding to traffic in the centre.

There would obviously need to be a tunnel to continue to allow harbor access and there are plenty of houses in the way.

The reality of the situation is that its not going to be cheap to fix and hard decisions need to be made.

Sounds like a good option actually. It'd only be a small tunnel, I don't really see the problem with it. In the Netherlands we have had this problem of overcrowding and road congestion much longer and there's tunnels everywhere. Even little ones just for pedestrians/cyclists. They're not even that expensive, they just sink some prefab tunnel blocks. They even tunneled a long freight railway because it was seen as an eyesore. I like it. It should be a serious option on the table.

Regarding the reliance on fossil fuels, I don't really expect the number of cars to ever lower really. We'll become less reliant on fossil fuels but the alternatives such as electric cars are becoming mature. The capacity of the electrical grid and production of green power is more of a problem but it'll get solved over time. It'll have to as fossil fuels are running out anyway.

I'd never get rid of my car anyway though I would take public transport to work if it was viable. I actually live near the terminus of the 405 and work near the terminus at the other side. Theoretically an ideal setup.

But Bus Eireann's insistence to slowly meander through the city center (and wait there like 10 minutes) makes this service completely unviable. It takes way too long and the service is too unreliable. I use it sometimes when my car is in the shop and it's seriously more than twice as slow as driving home in the evening. In the morning more like 5 times as slow.

IMO Bus Eireann really need to retire all their 50+ 'stuck in their ways' management and hire some young people who are able to think outside of the box. Everything that's coming out of them has this 'old guard' thing about it. And it's not as if they're doing a good job right now after all.

But it doesn't mean that nothing should be done with the roads. We're going to need them in the future even more than we do now. The M6 will bring more people to galway once the economy picks up again.

talking_walnut

GekkePrutser wrote: »

But Bus Eireann's insistence to slowly meander through the city center (and wait there like 10 minutes) makes this service completely unviable. It takes way too long and the service is too unreliable. I use it sometimes when my car is in the shop and it's seriously more than twice as slow as driving home in the evening. In the morning more like 5 times as slow.

A big issue is the buses are on the exact same roads as the cars most of the time. They're stuck in the same traffic and have to take indirect routes to cater for pick-ups and drop-offs. Took the bus one day and it took 2hrs instead of 30mins (strangely the morning only took about 40mins though so location in the city must play a factor).

At the moment the bus is basically for people that "can't afford" a car, instead of a viable alternative to driving to work. Nobody is going to voluntarily spend four times as long commuting for no obvious benefit.

beardybrewer

I took the bus once in Galway and it took longer than just walking. Haven't bothered again since.


I've a sneaking suspicion I'm part of the silent majority that sees public transportation in Galway as entirely useless.

talking_walnut

beardybrewer wrote: »

I took the bus once in Galway and it took longer than just walking. Haven't bothered again since.


I've a sneaking suspicion I'm part of the silent majority that sees public transportation in Galway as entirely useless.

I think most people with a car see it as useless. But they also freak out when it's suggested that some of the existing roads be reclassified as bus lanes.

If it took 45-60 mins to get to work by car, or a guaranteed 30 mins by bus, which would you take then?

ben.schlomo

I get the bus every day, I know what time to be at the stop,use the app and I'm never really put out by it. Five minutes late here or there but never really anything severely bad, if your commuting by any means in rush hour then you're going to be delayed.

talking_walnut

ben.schlomo wrote: »

I get the bus every day, I know what time to be at the stop,use the app and I'm never really put out by it. Five minutes late here or there but never really anything severely bad, if your commuting by any means in rush hour then you're going to be delayed.

I would take it for commuting if it wasn't going to take x4 times as long .

I currently cycle as much as I can. It's faster than driving or taking the bus, but not doable all year round.

Mrs OBumble

talking_walnut wrote: »

If it took 45-60 mins to get to work by car, or a guaranteed 30 mins by bus, which would you take then?

I cannot think of any car journey where the trip time is guaranteed. (Except maybe from one floor to another in a car-parking building!)

If the bus is delayed due to traffic, then likely a car journey will be to. Sometimes car-users can alter their route to take account of heavy traffic in on area - but not always.

Whereisgalway

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

I cannot think of any car journey where the trip time is guaranteed. (Except maybe from one floor to another in a car-parking building!)

If the bus is delayed due to traffic, then likely a car journey will be to. Sometimes car-users can alter their route to take account of heavy traffic in on area - but not always.

They could if they had proper bus lanes

bobbyss

GekkePrutser wrote: »

Sounds like a good option actually. It'd only be a small tunnel, I don't really see the problem with it. In the Netherlands we have had this problem of overcrowding and road congestion much longer and there's tunnels everywhere. Even little ones just for pedestrians/cyclists. They're not even that expensive, they just sink some prefab tunnel blocks. They even tunneled a long freight railway because it was seen as an eyesore. I like it. It should be a serious option on the table.

Regarding the reliance on fossil fuels, I don't really expect the number of cars to ever lower really. We'll become less reliant on fossil fuels but the alternatives such as electric cars are becoming mature. The capacity of the electrical grid and production of green power is more of a problem but it'll get solved over time. It'll have to as fossil fuels are running out anyway.

I'd never get rid of my car anyway though I would take public transport to work if it was viable. I actually live near the terminus of the 405 and work near the terminus at the other side. Theoretically an ideal setup.

But Bus Eireann's insistence to slowly meander through the city center (and wait there like 10 minutes) makes this service completely unviable. It takes way too long and the service is too unreliable. I use it sometimes when my car is in the shop and it's seriously more than twice as slow as driving home in the evening. In the morning more like 5 times as slow.

IMO Bus Eireann really need to retire all their 50+ 'stuck in their ways' management and hire some young people who are able to think outside of the box. Everything that's coming out of them has this 'old guard' thing about it. And it's not as if they're doing a good job right now after all.

But it doesn't mean that nothing should be done with the roads. We're going to need them in the future even more than we do now. The M6 will bring more people to galway once the economy picks up again.

Agree with you completely re trudging through these medieval streets. When I see buses creaking their way around Moons corner and trying to negotiate the Salmon Weir it makes your heart sink. Last week took a bus from Eyre Sq and twenty-five minutes later I reached the Abbey. Could have walked faster and arrived at my destination sooner too. A disaster. To add insult to injury their website is sh1t too.

Agree also with the mind set of BE. Old fashioned. Old timers. Time servers. No zip about them. Very civil servicey. Backward looking. I actually get the same sinking, depressing feeling when I go to get a train ticket in the train station.

talking_walnut

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

I cannot think of any car journey where the trip time is guaranteed. (Except maybe from one floor to another in a car-parking building!)

If the bus is delayed due to traffic, then likely a car journey will be to. Sometimes car-users can alter their route to take account of heavy traffic in on area - but not always.

That's my point. Buses are nerly pointless without dedicated bus lanes that go the full length of the route.

bobbyss wrote: »

Agree with you completely re trudging through these medieval streets. When I see buses creaking their way around Moons corner and trying to negotiate the Salmon Weir it makes your heart sink. Last week took a bus from Eyre Sq and twenty-five minutes later I reached the Abbey. Could have walked faster and arrived at my destination sooner too. A disaster. To add insult to injury their website is sh1t too.

Agree also with the mind set of BE. Old fashioned. Old timers. Time servers. No zip about them. Very civil servicey. Backward looking. I actually get the same sinking, depressing feeling when I go to get a train ticket in the train station.

Ya it's heartbreaking taking the bus through the city. Buses would fit fine on all those roads if it wasn't for all the cars though. They should never be sharing space like that.

Not sure it's Bus Eireanns fault though. They don't control the roads.

Mrs OBumble

talking_walnut wrote: »

That's my point. Buses are nerly pointless without dedicated bus lanes that go the full length of the route.

Nearly pointless is a massive overstatement.

I've caught buses to and from work for the last five years, on routes with no bus lanes. Far less stressful and expensive than running a car (no worries with other drivers, parking, maintenance, NCT, petrol). Absolutely not "nearly pointless" - most journeys (estimate 80%) were within one or two minutes of the timetabled time.

It's easier to run a train-like bus service if you have dedicated bus lanes. But still possible to run an adequate one without them.

talking_walnut

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Nearly pointless is a massive overstatement.

I've caught buses to and from work for the last five years, on routes with no bus lanes. Far less stressful and expensive than running a car (no worries with other drivers, parking, maintenance, NCT, petrol). Absolutely not "nearly pointless" - most journeys (estimate 80%) were within one or two minutes of the timetabled time.

It's easier to run a train-like bus service if you have dedicated bus lanes. But still possible to run an adequate one without them.

I'm speaking in generalities here but considering most people drive to and from work I think most would agree with my statement. Particularly the people who are commuting across the city everyday and causing most of the traffic problems.

Even if I did take the bus every day, I still need to own a car for some things (again a situation I think most people would also be in). Since tax, insurance and NCT are independent of how much you use the car, I have already paid a significant proportion of the cost of running the car before I go anywhere in it. So when I leave the house in the morning, I have the choice of taking my car and having a 20-40min commute, or taking the bus and having a 40-120min commute. I'd be an idiot to take the bus. It would at least double my commute time every day.

"Adequate" isn't going to make people leave their cars at home.

martinkop

Currently public transport cannot replace cars for most commuters, as the time/route means longer journeys. Plus as already pointed out most people need a car for other reasons than just commuting to work. As pointed out already, I have forked out ~€1500 just to have my car allowed on the road for the year, so I'm more likely to use that than pay for a slower commute on a bus

Panthro

Start a tunnel the far side of Claregalway that splits in two directions, one that pops up at Park more, the other out the far side of the city.

And a skytrain.

Discodog

The solution is a bypass but the authorities will do everything possible to avoid it. So the problems will just get worse. No amount of traffic plans, public transport etc will overcome basic geography. I have minimised when I have to cross the City. If a client wants me to then they pay a hefty premium.

You have to really know the rat runs. If you follow the main routes you can be stuck for hours. It's obvious that you have to provide the people, passing through the city, with an alternative. The only alternative is to go around it.

talking_walnut

Discodog wrote: »

The solution is a bypass but the authorities will do everything possible to avoid it. So the problems will just get worse. No amount of traffic plans, public transport etc will overcome basic geography. I have minimised when I have to cross the City. If a client wants me to then they pay a hefty premium.

You have to really know the rat runs. If you follow the main routes you can be stuck for hours. It's obvious that you have to provide the people, passing through the city, with an alternative. The only alternative is to go around it.

It seems like it's the solution but all the research shows that building more roads just causes more people to drive and eventually increases overall traffic congestion. I'd be worried the same thing would happen here.

It's not a simple problem. The intuitive solutions seem to end up making problems worse instead of better. The only real solution is less cars on the road, but people seem to think it's their divine right to drive everywhere.

Mrs OBumble

Discodog wrote: »

but the authorities will do everything possible to avoid it.

What makes you think this?

From where I'm sitting, more or less the opposite seems to be true.

Discodog

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

What makes you think this?

From where I'm sitting, more or less the opposite seems to be true.

Because I still that it will ever happen & in the meantime there will be increasing pressure to stop it. Even if it is built it won't be done properly & may well end up with bottlenecks that force people through the City.

Discodog

talking_walnut wrote: »

It seems like it's the solution but all the research shows that building more roads just causes more people to drive and eventually increases overall traffic congestion. I'd be worried the same thing would happen here.

It's not a simple problem. The intuitive solutions seem to end up making problems worse instead of better. The only real solution is less cars on the road, but people seem to think it's their divine right to drive everywhere.

I think that Galway is different. It is about geography. The last I heard the planners were claiming that the existing roads can cope with through traffic. I thought that the Council visited Oxford. If so they will of seen the solution. Fast efficient park & ride combined with a bypass.

KevR

beardybrewer wrote: »

I took the bus once in Galway and it took longer than just walking. Haven't bothered again since.

I've a sneaking suspicion I'm part of the silent majority that sees public transportation in Galway as entirely useless.

It's a similar experience for me. A number of bus routes serve the area that I live in but it's actually quicker to walk 20 mins into the city centre.
Each of the various bus services use an indirect route from here into the city centre, zig-zagging all over the place and stopping every 30 seconds (it's a bus service for crying out loud - why are they stopping every 30 seconds attempting to drop every passenger at their door step as though it were a taxi, a few mins walk at either end of the bus journey is perfectly reasonable).

talking_walnut wrote: »

I think most people with a car see it as useless. But they also freak out when it's suggested that some of the existing roads be reclassified as bus lanes.

If it took 45-60 mins to get to work by car, or a guaranteed 30 mins by bus, which would you take then?

There is no reason why some existing roads can't be widened to add bus lanes. Drastically cutting capacity for car users by reclassifying existing road space is not the only option!

Also, the fact that no scheduled bus service uses the existing Quincentenary Bridge must be addressed before we discuss taking existing road space and making it bus only. Running ALL cross-city bus services through Eyre Square is beyond a joke.

Ideally, funding could be got for a 12 month trial of running some bus services across the Quincentenary Bridge, avoiding Eyre Square. The council can put together funding for a seasonal Park and Ride from the Race Course into town - why can't the fund a trial for a new cross-city bus service.

what_traffic

KevR wrote: »

There is no reason why some existing roads can't be widened to add bus lanes. Drastically cutting capacity for car users by reclassifying existing road space is not the only option!

Also, the fact that no scheduled bus service uses the existing Quincentenary Bridge must be addressed before we discuss taking existing road space and making it bus only. Running ALL cross-city bus services through Eyre Square is beyond a joke.

Western Distributor Road jumps to mind here but certain City Streets need to have simple alterations. For example On Street Car Parking should be removed from Eglington Street. It is a blockage point for City buses on the Western Routes. 100 % agree on Quincentenary route - should at least be trialled during the Peak Rush Hour times.

KevR

what_traffic wrote: »

Western Distributor Road jumps to mind here but certain City Streets need to have simple alterations. For example On Street Car Parking should be removed from Eglington Street. It is a blockage point for City buses on the Western Routes. 100 % agree on Quincentenary route - should at least be trialled during the Peak Rush Hour times.

It makes sense to widen the Western Distributor and add a bus lane. It would need buses running every 15 mins in each direction though.

The other thing that seriously to be looked at is car pool lanes. I'm not convinced that the existing Seamus Quirke Road bus lanes have enough bus traffic to justify being bus lanes. Why not allow cars with 3+ occupants to use these lanes? Again, it's hard to argue against a trial (maybe 6 months). Try it out, see if it improves general traffic flow while also keeping an eye on how buses are affected.

gordongekko

Am i the only one who thinks traffic is a bit lighter since the new year?

Discodog

gordongekko wrote: »

Am i the only one who thinks traffic is a bit lighter since the new year?

Definitely but I think it happens every year at this time. No idea why but even my local area is much quieter. The petrol station said that their sales drop a lot.

jjpep

New year resolutions to be more healthy (cycling or walking/jogging to work) plus winter holidays?

Complete guess tbh.

This winter has been exceptionally dry so far.