Have Mayo lost their chance?

charlie1980

imo the Dublin forwards did not play to their optimum.Okay, the Mayo backs and the weather
was a factor but i think there is more to it than that.I honestly think their heads were not in the zone.For what ever reason,Gavin has to find out why they were flat and correct it.

endacl

The weather was a factor for both teams. Both of whom are Irish. Rain is the norm.

My heart says 'Dublin, please'. My head says 'no feckin way'. If Mayo play half as well as they did, and Dublin play twice as well, Mayo will still edge it.

And deserve it.

corny

endacl wrote: »

The weather was a factor for both teams. Both of whom are Irish. Rain is the norm.

My heart says 'Dublin, please'. My head says 'no feckin way'. If Mayo play half as well as they did, and Dublin play twice as well, Mayo will still edge it.

And deserve it.

That has to be the stupidest comment i've read on here. It was a draw. I think the variables above mean Dublin will be 4 times better than Mayo next day.

Mayo 50%.
Dublin 200%.

How does that result in a Mayo win if a draw is your starting point????

Original point. No Mayo haven't missed their chance.

Ted111

Even if dublin improve, which is a big assumption, they have to make up a six point gap from two lucky goals, before they're back to square one. And that's not factoring in mayos expected improvements - particullarly in forwards.
The game will bring mayo on and they will full of confidence. The roll of favourite should suit them they too often expect to lose in a self fulfilling prophesy.

Mayo on the front foot now - but it will be hell of a battle.

runnerholic

Ted111 wrote: »

Even if dublin improve, which is a big assumption, they have to make up a six point gap from two lucky goals, before they're back to square one. And that's not factoring in mayos expected improvements - particullarly in forwards.
The game will bring mayo on and they will full of confidence. The roll of favourite should suit them they too often expect to lose in a self fulfilling prophesy.

Mayo on the front foot now - but it will be hell of a battle.

Mayo are not favourites for the replay, in fact they are very much outsiders and available at 9/4 whereas the Dubs are 1/2

Ted111

runnerholic wrote: »

Mayo are not favourites for the replay, in fact they are very much outsiders and available at 9/4 whereas the Dubs are 1/2

Bookies never offer a price on dublin as they'll get big money either way. Similar effect with celtic, man utd/liverpool. Throw up a **** price and they get a shed load of money anyway. I think the ordinary observer based on the evidence of the weekend will see this as a close battle with mayo in the driving seat.

Gungadin

Ted111 wrote: »

Even if dublin improve, which is a big assumption, they have to make up a six point gap from two lucky goals, before they're back to square one. And that's not factoring in mayos expected improvements - particullarly in forwards.
The game will bring mayo on and they will full of confidence. The roll of favourite should suit them they too often expect to lose in a self fulfilling prophesy.

Mayo on the front foot now - but it will be hell of a battle.

Both teams start from scratch in the replay. This isn't Champion League were scores are aggregated.😜

StewartGriffin

endacl wrote: »

If Mayo play half as well as they did, and Dublin play twice as well, Mayo will still edge it.

And deserve it.

LOL!!

That is utter childish nonsense. Where are you getting figures like that from?

Even my 87 year old Mayo Grannie wouldn't come out with garbage like that.

StewartGriffin

Gungadin wrote: »

Both teams start from scratch in the replay. This isn't Champion League were scores are aggregated.😜

If it was, the replay would be in McHale park and Mayo would have 15 away points.

Ted111

StewartGriffin wrote: »

If it was, the replay would be in McHale park and Mayo would have 15 away points.

It's always an advantage to play the away leg first. Typical!

runnerholic

Ted111 wrote: »

Bookies never offer a price on dublin as they'll get big money either way. Similar effect with celtic, man utd/liverpool. Throw up a **** price and they get a shed load of money anyway. I think the ordinary observer based on the evidence of the weekend will see this as a close battle with mayo in the driving seat.

The odds bookies offer is a reflection of the money put on and the ordinary observer sees Dublin as favourites.

runnerholic

charlie1980 wrote: »

imo the Dublin forwards did not play to their optimum.Okay, the Mayo backs and the weather
was a factor but i think there is more to it than that.I honestly think their heads were not in the zone.For what ever reason,Gavin has to find out why they were flat and correct it.

Don't necessarily think Mayo have lost their chance. However I do think the Dublin forwards will score significantly more than they did in the 1st game. Very hard to call.

Ted111

runnerholic wrote: »

The odds bookies offer is a reflection of the money put on

That's not correct. If people will back horse/team/player at any price due to emotional affiliation then the prudent bookie will lay unfavourable odds as they still take the money but reduce the risk.

charlie1980

Do ye think if the Dublin forwards were tuned in?Connolly would have being allowed to try and do a Maurice Fitz.He is capable of it and the ball went dead but the % play was to retain possession.Thats juat an example of what I am referring to in my opening post.

mdwexford

endacl wrote: »

The weather was a factor for both teams. Both of whom are Irish. Rain is the norm.

My heart says 'Dublin, please'. My head says 'no feckin way'. If Mayo play half as well as they did, and Dublin play twice as well, Mayo will still edge it.

And deserve it.

Ted111 wrote: »

Bookies never offer a price on dublin as they'll get big money either way. Similar effect with celtic, man utd/liverpool. Throw up a **** price and they get a shed load of money anyway. I think the ordinary observer based on the evidence of the weekend will see this as a close battle with mayo in the driving seat.

Two of the most hilariously nonsense posts I've seen in a while.

ProudDUB

charlie1980 wrote: »

Do ye think if the Dublin forwards were tuned in?Connolly would have being allowed to try and do a Maurice Fitz.He is capable of it and the ball went dead but the % play was to retain possession.Thats juat an example of what I am referring to in my opening post.

Your two posts so far, have been about Dublin forwards under performing & Connolly making poor decisions. What does that have to do with the title of your thread?

gormdubhgorm

endacl wrote: »

The weather was a factor for both teams. Both of whom are Irish. Rain is the norm.

My heart says 'Dublin, please'. My head says 'no feckin way'. If Mayo play half as well as they did, and Dublin play twice as well, Mayo will still edge it.

And deserve it.

The weather was a plus for Mayo - lets be honest Dublin play thier best football in decent weather conditions.
It had a massive factor in bringing Dublin down a few levels. It gave Mayo more time to make tackles and defend. Also there is more rain in the west then the rest of the country it was only a nice soft day for the Mayo lads.

http://www.met.ie/climate-ireland/rainfall.asp

"Most of the eastern half of the country gets between 750 and 1000 (mm) of rainfall in the year. Rainfall in the west generally averages between 1000 and 1400 mm. In many mountainous districts rainfall exceeds 2000mm per year"

Dublin were not able to play thier "sunshine football" Connolly's mad attempt at the sideline towards the end of the game made no sense. It was not the percentage move ( I just noticed the OP also said I agree 100%) Instead of just tapping it across the field and working a free. Mad to try it in wet conditons at that stage even though he capable of it. At that stage it was mental.

I am fairly annoyed at how Dublin played. There is no question about it Mayo were the better team on the day. They even handed Dublin a 5 point lead for f**k sake and they still could not win.
I have not been as annoyed after a game since Dublin under Tommy Lyons lost to Padi O'Se's Westmeath, in 04.

I am also disappointed how Dublin did not kill the game when they were ahead at the end (see Connolly attempt above).

Dublin were saved by Aidian O'Shea's aimless ball towards the end if Mayo got a sore then Dublin were in right sh*t.

In answer to the OP's question I think Mayo have missed thier chance:

1) Will the weather will it be as bad again (I was annoyed looking at blue skies the following days)

2) Dean Rock was fairly poor from frees will this happen again?

3) Most of Dublin's forwards did not turn up like Dublin Bus - what are the odds of that happening again?

4) Will Brogan and McManaman be dropped for Mannion and Paddy Andrews?
(Most Dublin fans want this to happen - flynn is another who there are questions over by his high standards)

5) The ref - will not be the same ref and he could not do any worse then the last fella (for both teams).

Basically I think the stars aligned for Mayo they tried thier best to throw it away but salvaged a draw with the last kick.

I think Mayo missed the boat, and I am starting to think that the Mayo curse is real.

Gungadin

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

The weather was a plus for Mayo lets be honest Dublin play thier best football in decent weather conditons.
It had a massive factor in bringing Dublin down a few levels. It gave Mayo more time to make tackles and defend.

Dublin were not able to play thier "sunshine football" Connolly's mad attempt at the sideline towards the end of the game made no sense. It was not the percentage move. Instead of just tapping it accross the field and working a free.

I am fairly annoyed at how Dublin played. There is no question about it Mayo were the better team on the day. They even handed Dublin a 5 point lead for f**k sake and they still could not win.
I have not been as annoyed after a game since Dublin under Tommy Lyons lost to Padi' O'Se's Westmeath in 04.

I am also disappointed how Dublin did not kill the game when they were ahead at the end (see Connolly attempt above).

Dublin were saved by Aidian O'Shea's aimless ball towards the end if Mayo got a sore then Dublin were in right sh*t.

In answer to the OP's question I think Mayo have missed thier chance:

1) The weather will it be as bad again (I was annoyed looking at blue skies the following days)

2) Dean Rock was fairly poor from frees will this happen again?

3) Most of Dublin's forwards did not turn up like Dublin Bus - what are the odds of that happing again?

4) Will Brogan and McManaman be dropped for Mannion and Paddy Andrews?
(Most Dublin fans want this to happen - flynn is another who there are questions over by his high standards)

5) The ref - will not be the same ref and he could not do any worse then the last fella (for both teams).

Basically I think the stars aligned for Mayo they tried thier best to throw it away but salvaged a draw with the last kick.

I think they missed the boat and I starting to think that the Mayo curse is real.

I believe Deegan is the ref.

charlie1980

proud dub?I am not knocking Dermot Connolly,I think he can be one of the greats in the history of the game.

My point is obvious ,I believe the Dublin forwards will not perform as poor in the replay and therefore beat Mayo.

ProudDUB

Connolly did under perform, as did all the Dublin starting forwards. Connolly's bone headed decision to go for the Maurice Fitz shot, cost us an Ireland. I'm just confused as to what that has to do with the title of the thread, but no matter. I am hopeful, that given their pedigree, they won't all be as poor again on Saturday week.

charlie1980

Look proud dub?I think you are abit sensitive.I am not saying Connolly's decision cost Dublin the all ireland .When the ball went dead,the Dublin forwards did not react quick enough to close down the Mayo kick out.Thats just another example of what I am talking about,I could go on.My point is that collectiively the Dublin forwards were not in the zone.

naughto

ProudDUB wrote: »

Connolly did under perform, as did all the Dublin starting forwards. Connolly's bone headed decision to go for the Maurice Fitz shot, cost us an Ireland. I'm just confused as to what that has to do with the title of the thread, but no matter. I am hopeful, that given their pedigree, they won't all be as poor again on Saturday week.

He under performed cos he was marked out of it by keegan. In the 5 matches he has only scored 5 points that's very poor for a so called top footballer

Ted111

naughto wrote: »

He under performed cos he was marked out of it by keegan. In the 5 matches he has only scored 5 points that's very poor for a so called top footballer

You're probably viewing a bit too black and white. Keegan down the years has been a great counter attacking force for mayo. He restricted his whole game to marking connolly. Connolly had some good plays in the game and also at times was held quite well. Keegan did not get forward. This follows the pattern that these two have had in previous meetings essentially cancelling each other out.

As always their individual match up will be something to look forward to the next day.

superbluedub

naughto wrote: »

He under performed cos he was marked out of it by keegan. In the 5 matches he has only scored 5 points that's very poor for a so called top footballer

fouled out of it more like it. as was sean Kavanagh !!
keegan is a nasty piece of work.

charlie1980

Keegan plays on the edge and thats fair enough.The problem for Connolly is, hes a marked man with the officials.It will have to be another Dublin player that breaks Keegan up .In my view Dublin should target Keegan.All's fair in love and war and all that.lol

StewartGriffin

charlie1980 wrote: »

Keegan plays on the edge and thats fair enough.The problem for Connolly is, hes a marked man with the officials.It will have to be another Dublin player that breaks Keegan up .In my view Dublin should target Keegan.All's fair in love and war and all that.lol

But perhaps the Dubs are just as happy to have Keegan tied up with Connelly as Mayo are to have Connelly tied up with Keegan.

Dyr

Mayo had the perfect storm to put dublin away: weather, ref, gameplan and poxy dublin performance but they still wound up having to scrape a draw. I think they'll rue that as is their wont. I kinda feel if Mayo had it in them then they should have done it on Sunday

Dublin could be just as flat next time, they looked tired. It's a whole new game though: We don't know what the weather will be like, different ref. No idea on injuries for either team.

charlie1980

For me,Keegan represents the heartbeat of this Mayo team.Forget about Aidan O Shea,he has consistently not delivered in the big games when it mattered.Target Keegan and see what he's got under his finger nails.Also his team mates are going to react to it.Break Keegan and you break Mayo.

happyoutscan

In no way have Mayo lost their chance. Coming back from 5 at half time and then 3 at the end shows the mettle of this team. What will be needed is the same defensive discipline and more from the forwards.

For me O'Shea was completely anonymous, worse player on the park. That attempt at the end sums him up at times. Diarmuid O'Connor for all his work looks absolutely jaded and if Regan is out may be the impact sub up front in the replay.

All the pressure is on the Dublin team, there's none on the Mayo team because we have not elevated the expectation on them to ridiculous levels as we have done in the past.

What will be will be seems to be the general attitude over this side. If it's wet this Mayo team will win Sam. If the weather is fine then I think the Dubs will manage the back to back.

robbiezero

StewartGriffin wrote: »

But perhaps the Dubs are just as happy to have Keegan tied up with Connelly as Mayo are to have Connelly tied up with Keegan.

I doubt it. The game has changed quite a bit, but it's the forwards job to get into the game and get on the ball and score. If the forward doesn't go that, then the defender has won the battle. For me Keegan has won most of their battles, but for a brainfart from the Mayo goalie, he would have held Connolly scoreless.

robbiezero

happyoutscan wrote: »

In no way have Mayo lost their chance. Coming back from 5 at half time and then 3 at the end shows the mettle of this team. What will be needed is the same defensive discipline and more from the forwards.

For me O'Shea was completely anonymous, worse player on the park. That attempt at the end sums him up at times. Diarmuid O'Connor for all his work looks absolutely jaded and if Regan is out may be the impact sub up front in the replay.

All the pressure is on the Dublin team, there's none on the Mayo team because we have not elevated the expectation on them to ridiculous levels as we have done in the past.

What will be will be seems to be the general attitude over this side. If it's wet this Mayo team will win Sam. If the weather is fine then I think the Dubs will manage the back to back.

Aidan O'Shea needs to be left in at full forward to keep the Dublin backs honest and leave in the odd high ball. He is too slow to be brought outfield, a statue of our lady would have made a better attempt at tackling John Small for his last point.
I would probably start Barry Moran or someone else ahead of Seamus O'Shea, he was very poor the last day and is far too lumbering, up against one of the most complete footballers in the country in Fenton. This is a dangerous mis-match for Mayo, Fenton set up the first goal the last day and should have scored another one as well as getting a point and having a big influence in general play.

Fr Tod Umptious

robbiezero wrote: »

Aidan O'Shea needs to be left in at full forward to keep the Dublin backs honest and leave in the odd high ball. He is too slow to be brought outfield, a statue of our lady would have made a better attempt at tackling John Small for his last point.
I would probably start Barry Moran or someone else ahead of Seamus O'Shea, he was very poor the last day and is far too lumbering, up against one of the most complete footballers in the country in Fenton. This is a dangerous mis-match for Mayo, Fenton set up the first goal the last day and should have scored another one as well as getting a point and having a big influence in general play.

On review Seamus O'Shea had a decent first 47 minutes, he had a bad spell for 4 minutes before being subbed.

Barry Moran does not have 70 minutes in him, start O Shea, finish with Moran.

Shurimgreat

Much like with the KK hurlers, the surprise factor is gone. Dublin will have had a good look at Mayo, worked out their strengths and weaknesses. A wet day is a great evener in football, it turns a game into a lottery, where the outcome is determined by mistakes rather than good football, which is what we saw the first day.

Dyr

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Much like with the KK hurlers, the surprise factor is gone. Dublin will have had a good look at Mayo, worked out their strengths and weaknesses. A wet day is a great evener in football, it turns a game into a lottery, where the outcome is determined by mistakes rather than good football, which is what we saw the first day.

Dublin aint KK hurlers though

though if they win in two weeks people will probably start praising them for the Kilkenny like ability to hang in when they're having a bad day

Panrich

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

On review Seamus O'Shea had a decent first 47 minutes, he had a bad spell for 4 minutes before being subbed.

Barry Moran does not have 70 minutes in him, start O Shea, finish with Moran.

This lad wouldn't agree about poor Sheamie

http://gaaprostats.blogspot.ie/2016/09/why-mayo-came-so-closeand-whythey-didnt.html

robbiezero

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Much like with the KK hurlers, the surprise factor is gone. Dublin will have had a good look at Mayo, worked out their strengths and weaknesses. A wet day is a great evener in football, it turns a game into a lottery, where the outcome is determined by mistakes rather than good football, which is what we saw the first day.

What surprise factor? Mayo didn't do anything unexpected the last day or anything that the Dubs would not have fully expected.

KingKlopp96

Ted111 wrote: »

Even if dublin improve, which is a big assumption, they have to make up a six point gap from two lucky goals, before they're back to square one. And that's not factoring in mayos expected improvements - particullarly in forwards.
The game will bring mayo on and they will full of confidence. The roll of favourite should suit them they too often expect to lose in a self fulfilling prophesy.

Mayo on the front foot now - but it will be hell of a battle.

They don't have to make up anything as the game was a draw. Also you are assuming Mayo will improve and Dublin won't? 2 of Dublins forwards who started scored from play. I would say there is room for improvement there.

I wouldn't say Mayo have missed their chance but it certainly wasn't taken on Sunday when presented to them

flasher0030

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

On review Seamus O'Shea had a decent first 47 minutes, he had a bad spell for 4 minutes before being subbed.

Barry Moran does not have 70 minutes in him, start O Shea, finish with Moran.

Could we not do something a bit cuter. Realistically, what does Seamus O’Shea bring to the table in matches against Dublin? He can’t score. His doesn’t deliver any telling passes. He’s a midfielder and good fetcher of the ball. However, that is pretty much negated against Dublin. How many balls were sent into midfield from kick-outs. And those that were by Cluxton were generally pin-point accuracy – not hoofs in the air. Maybe I am think way too outside the box on this one, but would it not be more useful to put someone like Chris Barrett on Fenton – during general play anyway. Barrett can track him, and Barrett has also shown an eye for scores in the past. Although, All-Ireland replays may not be the time and place for experimentation. But I see it as being more effective than SOS or Barry Moran there.

Shurimgreat

Bambi wrote: »

Dublin aint KK hurlers though

though if they win in two weeks people will probably start praising them for the Kilkenny like ability to hang in when they're having a bad day

Bit of a cliché. But yes good teams always find a way to win even when playing badly. Mayo's replay record is very poor, another hoodoo that needs to be overcome if they want to win an AI.

As I said in a previous post, a wet day makes a lottery of things and the game is won or lost by mistakes by either team.

I think we will see the real difference between the teams the next day and Dublin should based on their quality, strength in depth and experience of closing out big games, edge it. It was difficult to assess the strengths of the teams based on the first game which turned into a bit of a farce.

Panrich

flasher0030 wrote: »

Could we not do something a bit cuter. Realistically, what does Seamus O’Shea bring to the table in matches against Dublin? He can’t score. His doesn’t deliver any telling passes. He’s a midfielder and good fetcher of the ball. However, that is pretty much negated against Dublin. How many balls were sent into midfield from kick-outs. And those that were by Cluxton were generally pin-point accuracy – not hoofs in the air. Maybe I am think way too outside the box on this one, but would it not be more useful to put someone like Chris Barrett on Fenton – during general play anyway. Barrett can track him, and Barrett has also shown an eye for scores in the past. Although, All-Ireland replays may not be the time and place for experimentation. But I see it as being more effective than SOS or Barry Moran there.

Maybe not Barrett as that is a big mismatch physically, but Stephen Coen might be an option. He'd have the legs to match Fenton and he was well able to take a score from distance in underage.

seligehgit

Panrich wrote: »

Maybe not Barrett as that is a big mismatch physically, but Stephen Coen might be an option. He'd have the legs to match Fenton and he was well able to take a score from distance in underage.

Yes I know Stephen Coen is relatively inexperienced at this level but he's got the mobility and height to compete with Fenton who is without doubt the best midfielder in the country.Chris Barrett doesn't have the height or mobility for this role.

We definitely need to mix it up.Serious consideration has to be given to options other than giving Seamus O Shea 60 minutes play time.Barry Moran could certainly be introduced much earlier.The switch on Sunday was made too late in the contest.

PARlance

seligehgit wrote: »

Yes I know Stephen Coen is relatively inexperienced at this level but he's got the mobility and height to compete with Fenton who is without doubt the best midfielder in the country.Chris Barrett doesn't have the height or mobility for this role.

We definitely need to mix it up.Serious consideration has to be given to options other than giving Seamus O Shea 60 minutes play time.Barry Moran could certainly be introduced much earlier.The switch on Sunday was made too late in the contest.

I think we're being harsh on Seamie. I've changed my tune since watching the game back anyway. Not doubt about it, he had a complete disaster at a very important time in the game but he was good in the first half, he had an excellent block that lifted the team. The disaster was limited to about 5 mins around the 50 mins mark. 3 criminal give aways (Doherty may have been guilty of being flat footed for one). Rochford acted straight away in fairness to him but for 45 mins, Seamie was good. He was playing as a more defensive midfielder and helped clean up a fair bit.

Personally I don't see a role for Barry in midfield against Dublin. He's main strenght is fielding and quite simply, it's needed less against Dublin than anyone. I think Rochford thinks the same. It was telling that Dillon was brought on for Seamie and Barry was left until Andy's legs were gone.

I would have no qualms about bringing in Coen for Seamie but I don't think he'll let us down like that again.

Biloxi Blues

charlie1980 wrote: »

proud dub?I am not knocking Dermot Connolly,I think he can be one of the greats in the history of the game.

LOL, he's 29 years old. He'll be remembered , if at all, for shooting the lights out in the Leinster championship against the likes of Westmeath and Laois but for going hiding everytime the Dubs have had it put up to them. If Meath or Kildare were anywhere near as good as they used to be he wouldn't even be remembered for the Leinster championship.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Biloxi Blues wrote: »

LOL, he's 29 years old. He'll be remembered , if at all, for shooting the lights out in the Leinster championship against the likes of Westmeath and Laois but for going hiding everytime the Dubs have had it put up to them. If Meath or Kildare were anywhere near as good as they used to be he wouldn't even be remembered for the Leinster championship.

Well that's a pile of rubbish anyway.

Connolly was one of the few Dublin players who put it up to Donegal in 2014, he had a great game that day.

Paul Flynn had a great game that day aswell.

runnerholic

Ted111 wrote: »

That's not correct. If people will back horse/team/player at any price due to emotional affiliation then the prudent bookie will lay unfavourable odds as they still take the money but reduce the risk.

Thats exactly what I said.

Stoner

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote:

Connolly was one of the few Dublin players who put it up to Donegal in 2014, he had a great game that day.

He'd a great second half vs kerry last year too

charlie1980

Replays are a completely different animal.For a start it will be easier to get tickets,the hill will be all blue this time.The pressure is all on Mayo now.Afterall they have still not got over the line.Deep down I would suggest they have doubts.If they get on top ,can they close out the game?

Gavin has all the cards,will probably make changes and have a specific plan for the Mayo back line.

WesternZulu

charlie1980 wrote:

Replays are a completely different animal.For a start it will be easier to get tickets,the hill will be all blue this time

Why would the hill be blue this time? Sure it's an equal split for all sections of the ground.

corny

WesternZulu wrote: »

Why would the hill be blue this time? Sure it's an equal split for all sections of the ground.

Just on this. I reckoned there was 65-35 in favour of Mayo last day. Was that just me or did anyone else think that?

ProudDUB

corny wrote: »

Just on this. I reckoned there was 65-35 in favour of Mayo last day. Was that just me or did anyone else think that?

The entire stadium, or just the Hill?

corny

ProudDUB wrote: »

The entire stadium, or just the Hill?

Stadium.