Issue with landlord

janisjoplin

Hi all. Just need a bit of advice here. I moved into a apartment three months ago. Paid the deposit & rent in advance.and agreed to pay the rent via direct debit as the landlord wanted this.When I viewed the apartment their was no mention of a length of tenancy or anything so after a month of living in my new accommodation my landlord said I needed to sign a tenancy agreement I said no problem. I asked to read it and he said you don't need to read it, it's only saying how much the rent is the date I moved in and the amount deposit paid, so I said ok, I signed it without reading, foolish I know. Then my landlord told me to pay the rent direct to him as his own words he doesn't want to leave a paper trail as he has no planning permission for the apartment I'm renting which is in the back of his property so I said ok. He then turned up at my door and told me I'm not allowed to use his address because he will get caught out. I said no this is no good to me I need an address. So I have been using his address and he's now constantly on at me to change my address to use a family member, I explained to him it wasn't pointed out to ME when I moved in I couldn't use this address and he said not his problem don't use the address. Can he do this?contiously harress me over my mail and has been holding onto my mail. Plus I had to get a copy of the tenancy agreement & discovered he had me down for a 12 month tenancy without my knowledge when I pointed out to him he never told me this when I signed it he replied tough I should have read it and he informed me then that when his kids or grandkids need a place to stay he will be giving me five weeks notice to leave as he doesn't a long term tenant. He never told me this either when I paid the deposit. .he's not registered with the PRTB either. So where do I stand?can he bully me over my mail and give me five weeks notice to leave when it suits him? Sorry for such a long post

Kings Inns or bust

Is the property a separate dwelling? If so, and you're absolutely sure there is no connecting door you're unaware of compromise with him by using house number plus A so let's say he's 61 Captain's Road, you're 61A Captain's Road. Beyond that the silly fecker has tied his own hands with the 12 month tenancy - this really is the highlight of my day.

If he'd just left it he would have been perfectly within his rights to ask you to leave within the first six months. Now he's stuck with you, not only for 12 months but for a further three years IF you decide to stay. Next time he's over explain that if you have to you'll take him to the RTB and if he tresspasses in your home again you'll call the guards. If he continues to bother you call the guards.

In the meantime I'd be looking to move.

Wow cowboy LL hoisted with his own petard. Great thread OP!

rawn

I'm sure this is painfully obvious to you now but NEVER SIGN ANYTHING WITHOUT READING IT!!

Other than that, I would start looking for a new place to live immediately. Once you find somewhere, give the LL the appropriate notice to leave. If he threatens to hold you liable for the remainder of the lease, or tries to keep your deposit without cause, tell him you will be lodging a dispute with the PRTB.

janisjoplin

Kings Inns or bust wrote: »

Is the property a separate dwelling? If so, and you're absolutely sure there is no connecting door you're unaware of compromise with him by using house number plus A so let's say he's 61 Captain's Road, you're 61A Captain's Road. Beyond that the silly fecker has tied his own hands with the 12 month tenancy - this really is the highlight of my day.

If he'd just left it he would have been perfectly within his rights to ask you to leave within the first six months. Now he's stuck with you, not only for 12 months but for a further three years IF you decide to stay. Next time he's over explain that if you have to you'll take him to the RTB and if he tresspasses in your home again you'll call the guards. If he continues to bother you call the guards.

In the meantime I'd be looking to move.

Wow cowboy LL hoisted with his own petard. Great thread OP!

Hi

Thanks for the response. No his property is totally separate to mine. I don't want to stay here anymore as I also have no privacy with him asking family members who they are etc and asking me also what hours do I work so he will know when I'm here and every week at my door.It's the issue with the mail is my biggest bugbear plus when he told me he will give me notice as soon as his kids arrive home from Africa. Which doesn't leave me in a great place either but thanks for the advice much appreciated. Am gonna keep looking for alternative accommodation

runawaybishop

janisjoplin wrote: »

Hi

Thanks for the response. No his property is totally separate to mine. I don't want to stay here anymore as I also have no privacy with him asking family members who they are etc and asking me also what hours do I work so he will know when I'm here and every week at my door.It's the issue with the mail is my biggest bugbear plus when he told me he will give me notice as soon as his kids arrive home from Africa. Which doesn't leave me in a great place either but thanks for the advice much appreciated. Am gonna keep looking for alternative accommodation

His notice can go whistle. Report him to revenue, the RTB and get house hunting.

Turtle_

rawn wrote: »

If he threatens to hold you liable for the remainder of the lease, or tries to keep your deposit without cause, tell him you will be lodging a dispute with the PRTB.

And reporting him to building control and the planning department. And revenue.

Get a copy of the lease so you have proof though.

janisjoplin

rawn wrote: »

I'm sure this is painfully obvious to you now but NEVER SIGN ANYTHING WITHOUT READING IT!!

Other than that, I would start looking for a new place to live immediately. Once you find somewhere, give the LL the appropriate notice to leave. If he threatens to hold you liable for the remainder of the lease, or tries to keep your deposit without cause, tell him you will be lodging a dispute with the PRTB.

Hi thanks for the repy..I told him yesterday I will be looking for alternative accommodation as soon as possible. I can't believeI was so foolish not to read the agreement but he badgered me so much that he had called to my home three times to say he had a friend over to witness the signing of the agreement and kept calling to tell me when his friend will arrive. I also discovered yesterday when I asked him for a copy of the tenancy agreement he had several pages stapled to the one sheet I had signed. I asked what's in the other sheets he wouldn't show me said it doesn't concern me only small print. Am sick over this. Can I raise a issue with ptrb over him bullying me over using the address here. Plus he has held my mail. I've had to go In and knock at his door to get my mail which was there for over a week? Any advice much appreciated

runawaybishop

janisjoplin wrote: »

Hi thanks for the repy..I told him yesterday I will be looking for alternative accommodation as soon as possible. I can't believeI was so foolish not to read the agreement but he badgered me so much that he had called to my home three times to say he had a friend over to witness the signing of the agreement and kept calling to tell me when his friend will arrive. I also discovered yesterday when I asked him for a copy of the tenancy agreement he had several pages stapled to the one sheet I had signed. I asked what's in the other sheets he wouldn't show me said it doesn't concern me only small print. Am sick over this. Can I raise a issue with ptrb over him bullying me over using the address here. Plus he has held my mail. I've had to go In and knock at his door to get my mail which was there for over a week? Any advice much appreciated

Lodge a complaint with the RTB.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/private_residential_tenancies_board.html

Edit: actually I would first inform him to get his act together or you will report him to all the previously mentioned bodies. Then report him anyway when you move out, with your full deposit of course.

fraxinus1

Regardless of the whole situation surrounding the renting of this property, the holding onto your mail is a serious offence. Report him to the guards immediately.

janisjoplin

Turtle_ wrote: »

And reporting him to building control and the planning department. And revenue.

Get a copy of the lease so you have proof though.

Thanks so much everyone for the advice. Do I have to give him notice in writing I want to leave even though he made a sign a 12 month tenancy agreement without me knowing. I made a copy of the agreement yesterday so least I have that. The crazy thing is he said he has been a landlord for years and owned many properties

Eric Cartman

Kings Inns or bust wrote: »

Is the property a separate dwelling? If so, and you're absolutely sure there is no connecting door you're unaware of compromise with him by using house number plus A so let's say he's 61 Captain's Road, you're 61A Captain's Road. Beyond that the silly fecker has tied his own hands with the 12 month tenancy - this really is the highlight of my day.

If he'd just left it he would have been perfectly within his rights to ask you to leave within the first six months. Now he's stuck with you, not only for 12 months but for a further three years IF you decide to stay. Next time he's over explain that if you have to you'll take him to the RTB and if he tresspasses in your home again you'll call the guards. If he continues to bother you call the guards.

In the meantime I'd be looking to move.

Wow cowboy LL hoisted with his own petard. Great thread OP!

I don't get this, the OP isn't at fault , but clearly him and the landlord are not getting on, why anyone would want to stay somewhere or leave their belongings somewhere that is owned by somebody who despises them is beyond me.

Richmond Ultra

You can arrange with your local post office that they will keep your mail. People do it the whole time. I did it before with a rental property before, all I had to do was have a chat with them explaining everything.

pcuser

Could you send a registered letter to yourself to see if he will sign for it? That might be valuable evidence to have against him down the line.

janisjoplin

fraxinus1 wrote: »

Regardless of the whole situation surrounding the renting of this property, the holding onto your mail is a serious offence. Report him to the guards immediately.

He is giving me my mail but hangs onto it until I have to call to him for it and he's constantly berating me for using his address as it will get him into trouble,his words not mine so I asked him to give me a mailbox and he said no I could pay to have my mail transferred to the post office like the previous tenant did. This was never stated when I viewed the property or moved in. I don't think the guard's will help in this situation

janisjoplin

pcuser wrote: »

Could you send a registered letter to yourself to see if he will sign for it? That might be valuable evidence to have against him down the line.

I have proof that I'm living here with the tenancy agreement and the odd bit of mail he has given me but he keeps badgering and bullying me saying I cant use his address but I live in a separate dwelling from him

rawn

janisjoplin wrote: »

Hi thanks for the repy..I told him yesterday I will be looking for alternative accommodation as soon as possible. I can't believeI was so foolish not to read the agreement but he badgered me so much that he had called to my home three times to say he had a friend over to witness the signing of the agreement and kept calling to tell me when his friend will arrive. I also discovered yesterday when I asked him for a copy of the tenancy agreement he had several pages stapled to the one sheet I had signed. I asked what's in the other sheets he wouldn't show me said it doesn't concern me only small print. Am sick over this. Can I raise a issue with ptrb over him bullying me over using the address here. Plus he has held my mail. I've had to go In and knock at his door to get my mail which was there for over a week? Any advice much appreciated

Lodge a complaint with the PRTB, and tell him you will be going to the Gardaí about him holding on to your mail, it's illegal. The fact he added pages onto your lease will work against him in a PRTB case (in face everything you have said about him so far will count against him). Tell him this, if he's smart he'll want to involve any outside involvement at all and will allow you to leave quietly, with your full deposit.

janisjoplin

Richmond Ultra wrote: »

You can arrange with your local post office that they will keep your mail. People do it the whole time. I did it before with a rental property before, all I had to do was have a chat with them explaining everything.

I've looked into this when he first told me he didn't want me using his address and the post office told me it will cost me over €70 for three months. I told the landlord I am not willing to pay for this as It was never stated from the start I couldn't use his address even though my apartment is separate from his

janisjoplin

rawn wrote: »

Lodge a complaint with the PRTB, and tell him you will be going to the Gardaí about him holding on to your mail, it's illegal. The fact he added pages onto your lease will work against him in a PRTB case (in face everything you have said about him so far will count against him). Tell him this, if he's smart he'll want to involve any outside involvement at all and will allow you to leave quietly, with your full deposit.

Great. Thanks so much for your help..I shall contact the PRTB tomorrow and explain my situation. I have been so stressed over this thank you

Kings Inns or bust

Eric Cartman wrote: »

I don't get this, the OP isn't at fault , but clearly him and the landlord are not getting on, why anyone would want to stay somewhere or leave their belongings somewhere that is owned by somebody who despises them is beyond me.

The LLs has essentially said to the OP when I need ya out I'm kicking you out, but you're here at my convenience for 12 months. I suspect that when the OP tries to leave the LL will hang onto the deposit citing the 12 month agreement.

During a regular 'I have no contract' lease the parties can part ways during the first six months. When one goes into signing 12 month agreements they override that. Now there could be break clauses etc. (enforceable or otherwise) but if you look at the thrust of my point, it's that the Landlord can go feck himself until the OP is in a position to move, kids coming back or not, OP having the gall to use the address or insist on quiet enjoyment or not. Without the 12 month agreement he would have been within his rights to give the OP notice during the first six months.

Hopefully that's clearer? Please feel free to seek further clarification if I've still not got it - it's late and perhaps I'm not being the most concise.

Kings Inns or bust

janisjoplin wrote: »

Great. Thanks so much for your help..I shall contact the PRTB tomorrow and explain my situation. I have been so stressed over this thank you

I'd very much keep the RTB as a bargaining chip, lodging a complaint now may reduce your position and inflame the situation.

4ensic15

Kings Inns or bust wrote: »

The LLs has essentially said to the OP when I need ya out I'm kicking you out, but you're here at my convenience for 12 months. I suspect that when the OP tries to leave the LL will hang onto the deposit citing the 12 month agreement.

During a regular 'I have no contract' lease the parties can part ways during the first six months. When one goes into signing 12 month agreements they override that. Now there could be break clauses etc. (enforceable or otherwise) but if you look at the thrust of my point, it's that the Landlord can go feck himself until the OP is in a position to move, kids coming back or not, OP having the gall to use the address or insist on quiet enjoyment or not. Without the 12 month agreement he would have been within his rights to give the OP notice during the first six months.

Hopefully that's clearer? Please feel free to seek further clarification if I've still not got it - it's late and perhaps I'm not being the most concise.

That is extremely naive. Do you think someone who refuses to allow the address to be used, admits he ignored planning law and is obviously not tax compliant is going to have the slightest regard to a written document that he has already altered? Do you think he ever wants that document looed at by any tribunal or court? He will just lock the o/p out when he wants.

_Kaiser_

4ensic15 wrote: »

That is extremely naive. Do you think someone who refuses to allow the address to be used, admits he ignored planning law and is obviously not tax compliant is going to have the slightest regard to a written document that he has already altered? Do you think he ever wants that document looed at by any tribunal or court? He will just lock the o/p out when he wants.

Indeed.. unfortunately a cowboy like this is going to have no respect for the laws of tenancy agreements, and will make the OP's life hell in the meantime.

OP: Call him over and tell him that you will be moving out as soon as you find alternative accommodation and will expect your deposit back in full on that date.

The risk is that if the OP lodges a complaint or threatens to, he's likely to arrive home after work to find his belongings on the street and the locks changed. This is the kind of LL he's dealing with.

Realistically all the OP can do is move ASAP, hopefully get (most of) his deposit back (but needs to proceed on the basis that he might/probably won't) and once he's out and settled elsewhere, lodge complaints with the PRTB, Revenue, local council etc

Kings Inns or bust

4ensic15 wrote: »

That is extremely naive. Do you think someone who refuses to allow the address to be used, admits he ignored planning law and is obviously not tax compliant is going to have the slightest regard to a written document that he has already altered? Do you think he ever wants that document looed at by any tribunal or court? He will just lock the o/p out when he wants.

And the OP can call the guards and regain entry.

Given your usual standard of posts this one is a bit silly. You and I both know the OP should be looking to get out of dodge - I say as much in my post, but in the meantime they should rest assured that they don't have to go anywhere and the LL can't force them out either.

Edit: Ah I see you're not reading the posts together, that will probably help you understand my point. The one you quoted was to answer Eric.

Kings Inns or bust

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

OP: Call him over and tell him that you will be moving out as soon as you find alternative accommodation and will expect your deposit back in full on that date.

This is very poor advice prior to the OP having somewhere to go. Just keep your head down OP and don't start the threats and calling outs or official complaints until you're negotiating the return of your deposit. If you've already got the guy pending going in front of the RTB he'll probably just dig his heals in and tell you you can wait until there is a decision of the RTB.

4ensic15

Kings Inns or bust wrote: »

And the OP can call the guards and regain entry.

Given your usual standard of posts this one is a bit silly. You and I both know the OP should be looking to get out of dodge - I say as much in my post, but in the meantime they should rest assured that they don't have to go anywhere and the LL can't force them out either.

Edit: Ah I see you're not reading the posts together, that will probably help you understand my point. The one you quoted was to answer Eric.

The guards have no authority to order entry. It is a civil dispute.

Kings Inns or bust

4ensic15 wrote: »

The guards have no authority to order entry. It is a civil dispute.

Tell that to the ones in North central dublin during the week.

The OP doesn't even need the guards. Just get in there themselves. Once the LL is interfering with the OP on their property it's a criminal matter.

4ensic15

Kings Inns or bust wrote: »

Tell that to the ones in North central dublin during the week.

The OP doesn't even need the guards. Just get in there themselves. Once the LL is interfering with the OP on their property it's a criminal matter.

Under what law? Just because the guards came to a house does not mean that they had any authority to do so. If the O/P starts breaking in he can expect a fight from the landlord. His personal belongings will be on the street and the place will be locked tight. What is he supposed to do? If the landlord tells the guards to go bugger and catch real criminals that is the end of it.

Kings Inns or bust

4ensic15 wrote: »

Under what law? Just because the guards came to a house does not mean that they had any authority to do so. If the O/P starts breaking in he can expect a fight from the landlord. His personal belongings will be on the street and the place will be locked tight. What is he supposed to do? If the landlord tells the guards to go bugger and catch real criminals that is the end of it.

Absolute rubbish.

If a disturbance is created the guards have every right to resolve the situation. If the OP gets entry to the property and the LL harrases him/her then the OP has recourse under the NFOAP Act.

4ensic15

Kings Inns or bust wrote: »

Absolute rubbish.

If a disturbance is created the guards have every right to resolve the situation. If the OP gets entry to the property and the LL harrases him/her then the OP has recourse under the NFOAP Act.

Rubbish? You cannot cite any law which supports your proposition. The NFOAP would only apply if the o/p gets back in. What did the guards do with the NFOAP Act last week? They ignored obvious assaults and harassed a naive landlord.
If the o/p gets in? Yeah right. The doors and windows are shuttered up. His personal possessions are in a pile on the street. So he is going to ignore all that and try and batter his way in with the angle grinder he always carries in his pocket. If he attempts to break in the LL can use force to defend his property.

Kings Inns or bust

4ensic15 wrote: »

Rubbish? You cannot cite any law which supports your proposition. The NFOAP would only apply if the o/p gets back in. What did the guards do with the NFOAP Act last week? They ignored obvious assaults and harassed a naive landlord.
If the o/p gets in? Yeah right. The doors and windows are shuttered up. His personal possessions are in a pile on the street. So he is going to ignore all that and try and batter his way in with the angle grinder he always carries in his pocket. If he attempts to break in the LL can use force to defend his property.

The OP need only get into the curtilage of the property.The Landlord can't 'defend' his property he's legally leased it to the OP. Any ruckus would legitimately involve the guards, the guards are going to resolve the situation by allowing the tenant back in.

Assuming this was all done calmly the OP has every right to call a locksmith and the LL has absolutely no grounds to try and stop it. Any attempt to do so would be assault, again guards called.

I'm genuinely baffled why I'm explaining this to you, you know all this.

Kings Inns or bust

Just pausing for a minute 4ensic does raise a good point that the property may be inaccessible and while I'd stand my ground you may not wish to OP (and you're probably wise). I'd suggest passing the paperwork on, such as it is, to someone for safekeeping.

4ensic15

Kings Inns or bust wrote: »

The OP need only get into the curtilage of the property.The Landlord can't 'defend' his property he's legally leased it to the OP. Any ruckus would legitimately involve the guards, the guards are going to resolve the situation by allowing the tenant back in.

Assuming this was all done calmly the OP has every right to call a locksmith and the LL has absolutely no grounds to try and stop it. Any attempt to do so would be assault, again guards called.

I'm genuinely baffled why I'm explaining this to you, you know all this.

The guards have absolutely no role in resolving civil disputes regarding leases. the o/p will be told he can look for an injunction to get back in if he wants. The guards cannot "allow" anybody back in. Under what law are you saying they have authority to do so?

Kings Inns or bust

4ensic15 wrote: »

The guards have absolutely no role in resolving civil disputes regarding leases. the o/p will be told he can look for an injunction to get back in if he wants. The guards cannot "allow" anybody back in. Under what law are you saying they have authority to do so?

I've explained twice now how this will play out in reality. You and I both know they'd be resolving the issue of the landlord and tenant having it out. Under what law are you suggesting the LL can prevent the tenant gaining access to the property they've legally leased?

4ensic15

Kings Inns or bust wrote: »

I've explained twice now how this will play out in reality. You and I both know they'd be resolving the issue of the landlord and tenant having it out. Under what law are you suggesting the LL can prevent the tenant gaining access to the property they've legally leased?

Tell me what law you are relying on? This is a legal discussion. What book on landlord and Tenant law mentions the guards?

The landlord in possession with his deeds can let the tenant go to court to assert his lease. The tenant may well have surrendered the lease or only been a licensee for all the guards know. The side of the road is not the palce for resolving title questions and the guards are not judges. Any half decent law student would know that. Two wrongs don't make a right and the guards have no business interfering.

Kings Inns or bust

4ensic15 wrote: »

Tell me what law you are relying on? This is a legal discussion. What book on landlord and Tenant law mentions the guards?

The landlord in possession with his deeds can let the tenant go to court to assert his lease. The tenant may well have surrendered the lease or only been a licensee for all the guards know. The side of the road is not the palce for resolving title questions and the guards are not judges. Any half decent law student would know that. Two wrongs don't make a right and the guards have no business interfering.

It's not a legal discussion it's a practical discussion in the Accommodation forum. Perhaps a thread in the abstract in legal discussion would be better however.

Returning to the practical side of things the guards are not going to engage in any of the legal questions. They are simply going to make a judgement call on whether the LL has illegally locked out the Tenant. A pile of possessions or the possessions locked in the property is going to be enough for them to insist the OP is let back in the property.

Each point you've made is valid, but it's valid in both directions. Now I could make the point that the constitutional right to inviolability of the dwelling will trump the right to private property but you're equally right in that the guards will not be deciding that at the side of the road. They'll simply make a call on what makes everyone the safest that night and the OP made homeless isn't that.

cursai

The gardai have nothing to do with prosecuting any postal offences. They are also so not going to get involved with civil matters such as tenancy. They'll go to the property to ensure no breach of the peace occurs bit will not force anyone to let any other person onto the house. Not officially anyway.

4ensic15

Kings Inns or bust wrote: »

It's not a legal discussion it's a practical discussion in the Accommodation forum. Perhaps a thread in the abstract in legal discussion would be better however.

Returning to the practical side of things the guards are not going to engage in any of the legal questions. They are simply going to make a judgement call on whether the LL has illegally locked out the Tenant. A pile of possessions or the possessions locked in the property is going to be enough for them to insist the OP is let back in the property.

.

What authority have the guards to insist the o/p is let back into the property?
Are they going to arrest the Landlord? For what offence.
If the landlord stands his ground that will be the end of it. The guards are not going to engage in any legal questions. That is one thing you are right about. they will look for the easiest way out of it. They may try and persuade the LL but if he tells them they are trespassing and to get off his property, the guards will tell the o/p to go and get an injunction.

Kings Inns or bust

cursai wrote: »

The gardai have nothing to do with prosecuting any postal offences. They are also so not going to get involved with civil matters such as tenancy. They'll go to the property to ensure no breach of the peace occurs bit will not force anyone to let any other person onto the house. Not officially anyway.

Thanks for dragging it back on topic, I'll give the last word to 4ensic here and I'll naff off to Legal discussion. Sorry if this tangent was not useful OP.

4ensic15

cursai wrote: »

The gardai have nothing to do with prosecuting any postal offences. They are also so not going to get involved with civil matters such as tenancy. They'll go to the property to ensure no breach of the peace occurs bit will not force anyone to let any other person onto the house. Not officially anyway.

The garda have power to prosecute offences under the COMMUNICATIONS REGULATION (POSTAL SERVICES) ACT 2011.
3.— (1) A person commits an offence if he or she, without the agreement of the addressee and, in the case of a person who is a postal service provider or an employee or agent of a postal service provider, contrary to his or her duty, intentionally—

(a) delays, detains, interferes with or opens, a postal packet addressed to another person or does anything to prevent its delivery or authorises, suffers or permits another person (who is not the addressee) to do so,

athtrasna

Mod note Kings Inn or Bust and 4ensic15 please take it to pm. You have dominated the thread with a to and fro that is off putting to others who may wish to contribute. This isn't the first time you've been asked to do this in this forum, please let it be the last time. Thanks

percy212

You absolutely need to call Threshold to get advice asap. If you have ANY money to spare, consider hiring a solicitor. This LL of yours is harassing you, causing you stress, stealing your mail, committing fraud, threatening you illegally with eviction etc. He needs to be taught a painful financial lesson, and preferably in front of a judge. I hope it all works out for you. Horrible position to be in.

Kings Inns or bust

athtrasna wrote: »

Mod note Kings Inn or Bust and 4ensic15 please take it to pm. You have dominated the thread with a to and fro that is off putting to others who may wish to contribute. This isn't the first time you've been asked to do this in this forum, please let it be the last time. Thanks

Apologies, I don't wish to speak for 4ensic but I think it just got the better of us, well me anyway and I think it might have been forgotten what forum this was. I think everyone started off with the best of intentions.

Sorry again OP for dragging it OT.

Discussion on the legal issues raised here for anyone who is interested.

cursai

Kings Inns or bust wrote: »

Apologies, I don't wish to speak for 4ensic but I think it just got the better of us, well me anyway and I think it might have been forgotten what forum this was. I think everyone started off with the best of intentions.

Sorry again OP for dragging it OT.

Discussion on the legal issues raised here for anyone who is interested.

Of the standard of advice is the same ill stay away. OP ring the prtb or threshold and no one else.

cursai

4ensic15 wrote: »

The garda have power to prosecute offences under the COMMUNICATIONS REGULATION (POSTAL SERVICES) ACT 2011.
3.— (1) A person commits an offence if he or she, without the agreement of the addressee and, in the case of a person who is a postal service provider or an employee or agent of a postal service provider, contrary to his or her duty, intentionally—

(a) delays, detains, interferes with or opens, a postal packet addressed to another person or does anything to prevent its delivery or authorises, suffers or permits another person (who is not the addressee) to do so,

No they can't. Sticking Gardai on top of it does not give them any relevant powers. AFAIK the only powers they have are section 13 offences for obscene etc post and post in relation to packages suspected of containing illegal drugs. Mda.

4ensic15

cursai wrote: »

No they can't. Sticking Gardai on top of it does not give them any relevant powers. AFAIK the only powers they have are section 13 offences for obscene etc post and post in relation to packages suspected of containing illegal drugs. Mda.

The Garda prosecute in the name of the DPP. Unless the offence has been reserved for prosecution by the Attorney General, it can be prosecuted by the garda in the name of the DPP.
The offence of sending obscene material is contained in section 55 of the Act. It makes no distinction between the offences in that section and the earlier Section 53 offences.

Jen Pigs Fly

The fact that he wants no paper trail means he's definitely not declaring his income to revenue.

An anonymous call to report it is all you need auditors and compliance officers can be quite scary when the circumstance calls for it.

cursai

4ensic15 wrote: »

The Garda prosecute in the name of the DPP. Unless the offence has been reserved for prosecution by the Attorney General, it can be prosecuted by the garda in the name of the DPP.
The offence of sending obscene material is contained in section 55 of the Act. It makes no distinction between the offences in that section and the earlier Section 53 offences.

Sorry apologies i was thinking of telephones. anyway the postal company prosecute for the offence for the offence withholding post. Don't know why your dragging the DPP into this.

xxxJennyxxx

xxxJennyxxx wrote: »

The fact that he wants no paper trail means he's definitely not declaring his income to revenue.

An anonymous call to report it is all you need auditors and compliance officers can be quite scary when the circumstance calls for it.

Just a general comment on this as you read a lot of people saying "ring revenue as he is not declaring the income".

You don't declare income to revenue as you get it you make a tax return when it is due. Just because revenue have no record now of someone earning money from a rental does not mean the law is being broken. Now this case it looks fairly obvious there is no intention to declare it but regardless of this no tax would be due yet.

4ensic15

cursai wrote: »

Sorry apologies i was thinking of telephones. anyway the postal company prosecute for the offence for the offence withholding post. Don't know why your dragging the DPP into this.

Both can prosecute. Gardai can't prosecute in their own names, they have to prosecute in the name of the DPP.

cursai

4ensic15 wrote: »

Both can prosecute. Gardai can't prosecute in their own names, they have to prosecute in the name of the DPP.

No. Show me this. Show me where it says this. It's like arguing with two law students. Gardai don't interpret laws to suit themselves they follow them to the letter.(mostly).

athtrasna

cursai wrote: »

No. Show me this. Show me where it says this. It's like arguing with two law students. Gardai don't interpret laws to suit themselves they follow them to the letter.(mostly).

And this isn't the legal discussion forum. Take this over there or to pm please.

Mod