A male perspective on miscarriage

_Whimsical_

I listened to this podcast a few days ago and I found it beautifully expressed and very moving. It's an article written by a man, Prof David Hlavsa, about his wife's miscarriage of their first child. I don't think I've ever heard a male perspective before on it and I realised that it's just crazy that this happens all the time and the man's experience is pretty much always erased.
I thought I'd share it as it might resonate with someone here. Even if you've no experience it's worth a listen, I've none and it's definitely stayed with me.

It was initially an article but was also recently read aloud in podcast form in the NY Times Modern Love podcast series. It got a huge reaction on both occasions it was released.
There's a link to both here : http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/21/fashion/first-son-stillborn-husband-wife.html

I recommend listening over reading as it's beautifully read, only 20 mins too and there's an update at the end of the podcast too.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

H3llR4iser

Yep, the "hidden pain" is something I've witnessed first hand.

My mom miscarried before I was born - I believe about 3 months in. She's always been very open about it, at least since the age I could understand the concept and elaborate it.

My dad never, ever mentioned the event once. Not even by mistake, and the rare times the subject was brought into discussion (usually by my late maternal grandmother, the most cartoonishly, inappropriately "filter-less" person I've ever known), he always pretended not to be listening, to focus on the newspaper / TV / Whatever he was doing; I've known him 36 years, I'm a man myself, and I know full well that's the way he (and most of us really) try to hide away from something that bothers him deeply.

silverbolt

a partner of mine had a ectopic pregnancy and no one, not one asked me how i was. Fair enough it was my partner that had the failed pregnancy but it was my kid too.

It's not the popular wisdom these days but at the end of the day as far as I'm concerned it's tough luck. It's worse for the woman, grin and bear it for her if that's what she needs, talk about it when she wants to.

0byme75341jo28

Deleted User wrote: »

It's not the popular wisdom these days but at the end of the day as far as I'm concerned it's tough luck. It's worse for the woman, grin and bear it for her if that's what she needs, talk about it when she wants to.

So because it's worse for the woman, a man should simply bottle up his feelings about one of the most tragic, unfortunate things that can ever happen to you? That really is terrible advice.

Ares Agreeable Cobra

Ares Agreeable Cobra wrote: »

So because it's worse for the woman, a man should simply bottle up his feelings about one of the most tragic, unfortunate things that can ever happen to you? That really is terrible advice.

Yup, that's what I said.

_Whimsical_

Deleted User wrote: »

It's not the popular wisdom these days but at the end of the day as far as I'm concerned it's tough luck. It's worse for the woman, grin and bear it for her if that's what she needs, talk about it when she wants to.

Actually I think a lot of women in a relationship would like to share the pain of it with a partner, would like to know that they also feel the loss of something important too. It would probably be helpful for both parties if it was more openly accepted and expressed.
Imagine if you lose someone, even lose a deeply held shared dream or vision for the future for you and your partner's whole life and then your partner says "oh well it was your thing but it's over now, sorry about that and all,there there love". I think you'd want someone to feel it with you in those cases. You want to say "oh this hurts" and have someone say "I know, it hurts so much".

I think that there are some men who don't relate to the idea of an early pregnancy being a baby as easily as a woman does, that's understandable I guess.
In the podcast the pregnancy is later, around 5-6 months, their baby is dead in the womb but delivered normally. Both parents are there, both hold him when he arrives. In those situations I think the enormity of the reality,trauma and loss arrives unavoidably into everyone's life there, felt by both people but you never really hear about the man's trauma or loss, alot of men probably don't really feel the right to retell it as their story because it's probably not always well received. It's surely only right that both sides are acknowledged though ? Maybe if you listen to or read the article you'll see it a little differently? I think it illustrates well too that there really is room for both people to feel the pain of it.

dinorebel

silverbolt wrote: »

a partner of mine had a ectopic pregnancy and no one, not one asked me how i was. Fair enough it was my partner that had the failed pregnancy but it was my kid too.

My wife Miscarried what would of been our first child and I had exactly the same reaction from people, still wonder what might of been.

mcgiggles

(I haven't yet listened to the podcast, mainly because I'm at work and it might hit too close to home, but I will listen to it later.)

Its been close to 3 years since I miscarried and its so terrible to say but I actually can't remember if I asked him how he was doing... I'm sitting here racking my brains and I can't remember at all.. I was literally in a fog of grief for at least a year after it happened. My head was so messed up. I can't even remember if we talked about it properly afterwards. I've talked to women about it, and talked about their experiences, unfortunately its more common than people think, more common than I ever thought! But I don't think I ever spoke to their other halves about it... I suppose it just never entered my head, even though I had gone through it myself.. Thank you for this post

EDIT: p.s. sorry for jumping into the "Gentlemens club"

Ares Agreeable Cobra

Ares Agreeable Cobra wrote: »

So because it's worse for the woman, a man should simply bottle up his feelings about one of the most tragic, unfortunate things that can ever happen to you? That really is terrible advice.

That would be general feeling. If instead of miscarriage it was abortion, he will be told it's none of his business.

silverbolt

silverbolt wrote: »

a partner of mine had a ectopic pregnancy and no one, not one asked me how i was. Fair enough it was my partner that had the failed pregnancy but it was my kid too.

Reminds me of that scene in "Peter's Friends" where everyone is explaining to Roger how hard it was for Mary to lose a child and he yells "he was my son too!!"

Letree

Deleted User wrote: »

Yup, that's what I said.

Oh the man hatred is strong with this one

_Whimsical_

_Whimsical_ wrote: »

Actually I think a lot of women in a relationship would like to share the pain of it with a partner, would like to know that they also feel the loss of something important too. It would probably be helpful for both parties if it was more openly accepted and expressed.
Imagine if you lose someone, even lose a deeply held shared dream or vision for the future for you and your partner's whole life and then your partner says "oh well it was your thing but it's over now, sorry about that and all,there there love". I think you'd want someone to feel it with you in those cases. You want to say "oh this hurts" and have someone say "I know, it hurts so much".

I think that there are some men who don't relate to the idea of an early pregnancy being a baby as easily as a woman does, that's understandable I guess.
In the podcast the pregnancy is later, around 5-6 months, their baby is dead in the womb but delivered normally. Both parents are there, both hold him when he arrives. In those situations I think the enormity of the reality,trauma and loss arrives unavoidably into everyone's life there, felt by both people but you never really hear about the man's trauma or loss, alot of men probably don't really feel the right to retell it as their story because it's probably not always well received. It's surely only right that both sides are acknowledged though ? Maybe if you listen to or read the article you'll see it a little differently? I think it illustrates well too that there really is room for both people to feel the pain of it.

Kinda coming at it from different angles here I guess. What I'm getting at is that it's basically the man's job to be there for the woman. Whether that's being open or not, talking about it a lot or not, memorialising, whatever, it'll differ from person to person.

MarkR

Yeah, because it's not like the man lost anything, right? FFS

Olishi4

I have never experienced miscarriage but in my experience of grief and grief experienced by those around me, it is usually unique to each person. Not all but most men, I mean in my experience, handled grief in a completely different way to the women in my life.

My husband's grandmother died a couple of years ago and he was very close to her before he moved here but he really didn't want to talk about it. I did try to encourage him but he genuinely didnt want to talk about it and i had to respect that but he knows if he did want to talk about it that he can.

So I suppose it's just important to understand that not everyone handles grief the same but it doesnt mean they are not upset or hurt.

A friend of mine recently had a miscarriage and I asked how her bf was and her natural reaction was "he was great, he was there for me" but I meant how was he. I really felt for both of them. I was concerned for him because he had recently lost his father to suicide after reconnecting with him. From what my friend told me, he was made to feel like he shouldn't have been upset because "he didn't know his father". All this happened in a short space of time so they had a lot to deal with but it seems they handled it well together.

evolving_doors

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Kinda coming at it from different angles here I guess. What I'm getting at is that it's basically the man's job to be there for the woman. Whether that's being open or not, talking about it a lot or not, memorialising, whatever, it'll differ from person to person.

Seems like just one angle here.

D0NNELLY

Such generalisations in this day and age.. next you'll be saying we should man up.. fecksake..


For my part, my sister in law is carrying twins where one isn't expected to make it.. she's 30 weeks in and the smaller is only 2 pound. The doc is saying the weeun will have to be 4 to perform the heart operation she needs..

I'm a big fücker, manly man buttonftw, and i regurarly ball my eyes out for a child I've never met, and who's not even mine, so take your generalisations to ah where you might get the biting you're looking for.

fits

D0NNELLY wrote: »

For my part, my sister in law is carrying twins where one isn't expected to make it.. she's 30 weeks in and the smaller is only 2 pound. The doc is saying the weeun will have to be 4 to perform the heart operation she needs..

.

Thats awful Im carrying twins also and can only imagine how heartbreaking that must be. But fingers crossed for the baby nonetheless.

Have never experienced miscarriage but it really seems to be mostly women who talk about it, or indeed anything to do with pregnancy/babies. In a lot of cases its seen as the woman's realm. I suppose thats why people dont immediately sympathise with the male partner.

Good idea for a thread though, and good to talk about it.

Liam McPoyle

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Kinda coming at it from different angles here I guess. What I'm getting at is that it's basically the man's job to be there for the woman. Whether that's being open or not, talking about it a lot or not, memorialising, whatever, it'll differ from person to person.

Just like its the woman's job to do the cooking and cleaning?

This is 2016, not the 1950s.

My wife and I have been unlucky enough to have gone through two losses in the last 12 months or so.

The first one was without a doubt the single most devastating thing I've ever been through.

With the first we went in for the 12 week scan only to be told that there was a problem with the foetus and that the baby was unlikely to make it. We lost it a couple of weeks later.

That day was the hardest I've ever had to go through. We got home after being in the hospital and I literally went to my hands and knees and bawled my eyes out.

All the plans I'd had, all the little daydreams about what our baby and I were going to do together, stupid things like getting them a little Black Sabbath T-shirt, reading them bed time stories, cuddling and consoling them when they fell over, all of that was taken away in the blink of an eye. I was heartbroken for me, I was heartbroken for my wife, for my parents who are absolutely dying to have grandkids.

If I hadn't of gotten it out, between talking and mourning with my wife, seeing a wonderful bereavement counsellor in the Coombe, I honestly don't believe I would have survived it.

The thought that society expected me to remain stoic and basically suck it up never occurred to me.

They were our babies.

They were made up of me just as much as my wife.

Obviously the bond between mother and baby is different due to the physical connection but that does not for one second mean my (or any man that is yearning for kids) pain was any less pointed than my wife's and the expectation that a man should just get on with it is frankly nonsense. My wife herself has commented on numerous occasions that she was glad I was able to open up because I knew exactly how she was feeling.

ED E

Deleted User wrote: »

Kinda coming at it from different angles here I guess. What I'm getting at is that it's basically the man's job to be there for the woman. Whether that's being open or not, talking about it a lot or not, memorialising, whatever, it'll differ from person to person.

Wouldnt like to be your OH, assuming you'd find one.

LegacyUser

My wife and I had had two children before she had a miscarriage. From chatting amongst our friends, it seemed to be quite taboo....as if mentioning it would conspire you to have one.

As the husband, I was quite saddened about it, felt like we had been visited some misfortune that we didn't deserve, having put so much effort and work into making sure our two children were an asset to the world, rather than a liability. But life doesn't work like that. It was just a really sad thing to us both.

Of course my wife still had a lifeless foetus in her body and her body's method of extraction was 8 hours bleeding on a toilet floor. 12 months later she gave birth to our third child at home and without any discomfort.

We've talked about all this but the upshot is we have three beautiful (to us) children. Thankfully my salary meant my wife could stay at home, we would not have had children otherwise.

But that is just the beginning, that is what she always says. A few stitches....easy. Raising three children.....that's real life. That is what being a mother is all about.

eviltwin

I think I get what Button means. Both suffer the loss of the child that might have been but the woman has the additional physical trauma. It's a different kind of loss. Both need support but often miscarriage happens before friends and family know so they may only have each other. It's not a competitive sport though and both need to be there for each other but because of the nature of miscarriage the woman might be affected in a more visceral way.

D0NNELLY

How about that thread title, eh?

Hellrazer

Saul t nutzz.
I'm not going to quote your whole post but that may as well have been my exact post.

We lost ours Christmas week 11 years ago and honestly it was the worst time of my life.

We had been trying for almost 10 years for a second having been told it would never happen and the we found out in November that we were expecting.at the 12 week scan there was no heartbeat. We went from pure elation to sheer sadness in minutes.
Luckily (probably a bad choice of words) we went on to have 3 more.
Christmas is always a reminder of the fact that I should have 5 kids and not 4 especially when we still have a couple this year for Santa.It would have just about been one more.

But as a "man" I don't think you're supposed to show your emotions at a time like this.
You're supposed to be "strong" and there for your partner. But in reality you're feeling the exact same as her.

brightspark

Lost two (odd expression?) over 15 yrs ago now, glad to see some people's attitudes are improving.

I remember going out for a pint with a friend at the time and just sobbing, no idea what others thought of me in that pub.:o

I got really angry when a female journalist columnist hack wrote an article in a Sunday newspaper some years ago claiming that men weren't really grieving after their wives miscarried :rolleyes:

I think I was just one of many who complained at the time.

_Whimsical_

Olishi4 wrote: »

A friend of mine recently had a miscarriage and I asked how her bf was and her natural reaction was "he was great, he was there for me" but I meant how was he. I really felt for both of them. I was concerned for him because he had recently lost his father to suicide after reconnecting with him.

Wow that's alot for anyone to take, poor guy! You're spot on with the reaction to the question of "how is he? " in that situation though.
It is crazy that we expect men to be fully engaged fathers, as they should be and most naturally are, but then sideline them from the role of parent at these kind of times, as if they were token cheer leaders or uninvolved hand holders. I think in these conversations some people lose sight of the fact that a pregnancy is much more than a physical state or a foetus, it's the near fulfilment of life long hopes and dreams, it's the path your future will take drawn out in front of you, a reason for living for the rest of your days, it's the beginning of a deep love you've never known before. That's what women mourn so why wouldn't men do so equally? The physical wounds heal much faster than the emotional ones for women too.
Might be a bit of a leap but I wonder if men were encouraged to and allowed to engage from day one like women are expected to with news of pregnancy would it lead to better relationships and bonds between SOME dads and their kids.

fits

_Whimsical_ wrote: »

Might be a bit of a leap but I wonder if men were encouraged to and allowed to engage from day one like women are expected to with news of pregnancy would it lead to better relationships and bonds between SOME dads and their kids.

I think its a bit of a chicken and egg situation though. The presence of male posters in any of the ttc/pregnancy/parenting forums on boards for example is scant. In my own situation any time we are presented with stuff from others husband hands it to me and im like they are yours too you know. Of course physically he is somewhat removed... I dunno.

fits

fits wrote: »

I think its a bit of a chicken and egg situation though. The presence of male posters in any of the ttc/pregnancy/parenting forums on boards for example is scant. In my own situation any time we are presented with stuff from others husband hands it to me and im like they are yours too you know. Of course physically he is somewhat removed... I dunno.

Probably going away from subject of thread somewhat.

Ann22

I've had five losses. I did feel heart sorry for my husband and felt such a dreadful useless failure for letting him down. Family and friends who knew, did sympathise with him and were considerate. He was really sad at the time and disappointed but seemed to brighten up and could get on with his life quite soon afterwards and didn't seem have a lot of tolerance for my low mood in the wks following. He was likeky dealing with it as best he could. I remember shortly after the first and most traumatic loss finding a nice Easter card he bought me that he haven't given me as he was mad with me over something, I can't remember what but it was a minor row possibly being my fault, at those times I was easily upset. I was a ball of emotions and would cry at something minor and he would get mad. I never forgot that sad card sitting in the cupboard to my 'lovely wife' or something similar...He didn't feel I deserved it. Was an awful time. I learned to bottle it all up by the time of the last one. Wouldn't wish it on anyone.

brightspark

Ann22 wrote: »

I've had five losses. I did feel heart sorry for my husband and felt such a dreadful useless failure for letting him down. Family and friends who knew, did sympathise with him and were considerate. He was really sad at the time and disappointed but seemed to brighten up and could get on with his life quite soon afterwards and didn't seem have a lot of tolerance for my low mood in the wks following. He was likeky dealing with it as best he could. I remember shortly after the first and most traumatic loss finding a nice Easter card he bought me that he haven't given me as he was mad with me over something, I can't remember what but it was a minor row possibly being my fault, at those times I was easily upset. I was a ball of emotions and would cry at something minor and he would get mad. I never forgot that sad card sitting in the cupboard to my 'lovely wife' or something similar...He didn't feel I deserved it. Was an awful time. I learned to bottle it all up by the time of the last one. Wouldn't wish it on anyone.

I think my wife also felt that way, probably part of the reason I didn't dwell on my own grief or share it fully with her.

BTW it's also possible that he just forgot the card, I've a few cards stored away that I am planning to use in the unlikely event that I remember I have them when needed.

_Whimsical_

Ann22 wrote: »

I've had five losses. I did feel heart sorry for my husband and felt such a dreadful useless failure for letting him down. Family and friends who knew, did sympathise with him and were considerate. He was really sad at the time and disappointed but seemed to brighten up and could get on with his life quite soon afterwards and didn't seem have a lot of tolerance for my low mood in the wks following. He was likeky dealing with it as best he could. I remember shortly after the first and most traumatic loss finding a nice Easter card he bought me that he haven't given me as he was mad with me over something, I can't remember what but it was a minor row possibly being my fault, at those times I was easily upset. I was a ball of emotions and would cry at something minor and he would get mad. I never forgot that sad card sitting in the cupboard to my 'lovely wife' or something similar...He didn't feel I deserved it. Was an awful time. I learned to bottle it all up by the time of the last one. Wouldn't wish it on anyone.

Aww I'm really sorry to hear that, it sounds awful. I'm sure it's very complex and in some ways it is definitely different for men and women. I'd never even considered that a man might feel there was blame to be allocated, or a woman either, it's such a random thing you can do nothing about, but we very rarely process grief or emotional pain rationally. I'm really sorry you felt you had to bottle it up too. It's only relatively recently women were allowed feel their grief over it really.We probably need a lot more conversation around the issue for men for this reason too,it really should be a couple thing, not a woman thing. That is there should be space for men's pain to be acknowledged and more encouragement for them to relate to a woman's experience and feelings, to understand it probably won't only affect someone for a few weeks before they bounce back.

I bet he did just forget the card too. You sound lovely, you deserved it even more when you were going through so much.

_Whimsical_

fits wrote: »

I think its a bit of a chicken and egg situation though. The presence of male posters in any of the ttc/pregnancy/parenting forums on boards for example is scant. In my own situation any time we are presented with stuff from others husband hands it to me and im like they are yours too you know. Of course physically he is somewhat removed... I dunno.

Yeah I can see your point, I've noticed this too. Maybe it's how we are all wired or maybe it's how we are conditioned through generations. Talking about these things more and being more aware of the other persons perspective can only be good things though.

mcgiggles

Hellrazer wrote: »

Saul t nutzz.
I'm not going to quote your whole post but that may as well have been my exact post.

We lost ours Christmas week 11 years ago and honestly it was the worst time of my life.

We had been trying for almost 10 years for a second having been told it would never happen and the we found out in November that we were expecting.at the 12 week scan there was no heartbeat. We went from pure elation to sheer sadness in minutes.
Luckily (probably a bad choice of words) we went on to have 3 more.
Christmas is always a reminder of the fact that I should have 5 kids and not 4 especially when we still have a couple this year for Santa.It would have just about been one more.

But as a "man" I don't think you're supposed to show your emotions at a time like this.
You're supposed to be "strong" and there for your partner. But in reality you're feeling the exact same as her.

I feel your pain, we lost ours Christmas week 3 years ago this year.. Christmas day was the worst , we haven't tried since, we have gotten a farm up and running and just generally decided we were going to wait a bit. We are getting married next year so we decided wait until after that. We both absolutely love Christmas but every year the "what if.." comes up and it makes me just as upset as when it happened. Our wedding is the day before New years so hopefully the happy memories of that will help. My heart goes out to anyone that has gone through it... I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy

DUBACC

we lost two in the space of 4 months a few years ago. As s man you are confused, you feel devastated for the loss of the child you won't ever see but you need to be there for your wife. I won't ever forget either experience, first was after six weeks and we had planned to go out for dinner to celebrate. Fast forward 3 hours and I'm standing in the emergency room in Holles street, watching my poor wife sitting in a bed sobbing and I can't do anything about it. Second was at the 12 week scan being told 'sorry we can't see a heartbeat' and then being asked by the hospital before the d&c procedure what they should do with the baby? Utter coldness.

Al in all, for a man, you are forgotten about mainly. Some reasons are right, the woman needs the physical and emotional help. But we need help when our world gets torn apart too. Might sound dramatic, but for any man who loves to have kids, that's what it feels like.

nikkibikki

mcgiggles wrote:

I feel your pain, we lost ours Christmas week 3 years ago this year.. Christmas day was the worst , we haven't tried since, we have gotten a farm up and running and just generally decided we were going to wait a bit. We are getting married next year so we decided wait until after that. We both absolutely love Christmas but every year the "what if.." comes up and it makes me just as upset as when it happened. Our wedding is the day before New years so hopefully the happy memories of that will help. My heart goes out to anyone that has gone through it... I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy

Why wait? I'd nearly plead with you not to if you can at all. I know of so many people who have suffered so much because they waited.

Anyway, back on topic. I wish my husband would speak of it more. We've 3 healthy and happy boys. We weren't TTC, he says he doesn't really want another, for a lot of reasons. Mainly the fact that I've been diagnosed with an auto immune disease since my last pregnancy. And there's the financial aspect too. I'd love one more. But last week, I miscarried. It was unplanned. It was very early. When I've pushed him to talk about it, he said of course he is a bit disappointed that I miscarried. But I think he's afraid to tell me he's also relieved I'm not pregnant. Afraid he'll upset me. I've been trying to get him to talk about how he's feeling but he's not opening up.

Wibbs

nikkibikki wrote: »

We weren't TTC.

Trying To Conceive. For those not up to speed with such things.

mirrorwall14

I'm part of one of the babies clubs here on boards that has since morphed into a fb group. One of us lost their baby full term and it still affects the group. We remember Max at all the major milestones in my lads life. It's funny but I've only now realised that there were no men in the group, we'd have had no problem chatting away. I'd encourages any prospective dad to come on over to their group. We've been lucky to have no losses but I know my husband is uncomfortable hearing about max so I can imagine if anything were to happen in the future (fingers and toes crossed) he would be just as broken as I woul

Pawwed Rig

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

I'm part of one of the babies clubs here on boards that has since morphed into a fb group. One of us lost their baby full term and it still affects the group. We remember Max at all the major milestones in my lads life. It's funny but I've only now realised that there were no men in the group, we'd have had no problem chatting away. I'd encourages any prospective dad to come on over to their group. We've been lucky to have no losses but I know my husband is uncomfortable hearing about max so I can imagine if anything were to happen in the future (fingers and toes crossed) he would be just as broken as I woul

Since having junior 3 years ago the one thing I did notice is how unwelcomed men are with regard to anything to do with babies . Whether that is being ignored and talked about (while in the room) by the public health nurse to being denied child benefit (as fathers cannot apply for it) to dirty looks while accompanying missus to development checks. Mothers groups or indeed the forums on boards are not too welcoming either but in a more passive way.

Anyway slightly off topic

Heart breaking stories here

Outlaw Pete

No personal experiences myself thankfully but know a lot of friends that I have had to deal with one or more and I seen how it affected them. Some seemed to cope better than others but what I noticed was the more emotionally engaged with the prospect of becoming a dad, either for the first time or yet again, the more it would gut them.

Can't understand why anyone would think a man, who is sleeping beside a pregnant wife, going through almost every moment with them from planning their arrival, attending scans, emotionally support etc along with witnessing all the physical aspects of it too... would, or could, somehow not then feel that loss deeply themselves.. but it does seem quite common for people to think that way.

It does seem to not be as bad as it once was though. Recently when Gordon Ramsey's wife had a miscarriage I seem to remember the media commenting about the couple's devastation rather than just his wife's. I guess that could be just because he is the more famous of them and also he had recently (the week before I think) gone on the Jonathan Ross Show and made a big deal about how happy he was at the prospect of being a father again.

Hopefully though it wasn't just a celeb factor thing and people are more aware these days that men are not in fact made of stone and of course can and do feel such losses deeply.

mirrorwall14

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Since having junior 3 years ago the one thing I did notice is how unwelcomed men are with regard to anything to do with babies . Whether that is being ignored and talked about (while in the room) by the public health nurse to being denied child benefit (as fathers cannot apply for it) to dirty looks while accompanying missus to development checks. Mothers groups or indeed the forums on boards are not too welcoming either but in a more passive way.

Anyway slightly off topic

Heart breaking stories here

Thats odd. I must ask my OH tonight because he has never commented about noticing anything like that and we are very much joint parents. Depending on the online groups some of them are nuts even for women! I didn't think the boards forum was particularly unwelcome? Nor babybumps on reddit. However a couple of the larger american sites in particular are absolutely bonkers.

Anyways, its very interesting to read/watch the OP. Thank you for sharing, definitely opening my eyes a bit.

Rattlehead_ie

Currently coming out the other end of one here. Was our first and I really do hope last experience of it. I can see both sides of the discussion here and at times I can honestly say I, as the guy, felt completely isolated and in the dark. While friends and family I know would be there to talk to, they are not the one I want to talk to. The whole thing is such a personal thing between 2 people to happen. I have no idea of what my gf is going through and all I want to do is help and I feel/felt useless but as others have pointed out....sometimes you just need to say nothing and be there for her, it shouldnt be expected of you. Each couple is different and some people will deal with things in other ways.

My gf recently enough came up to me and said sorry for not being there for me throughout the time and thank you for being there for her....I didn't need an apology or a thank you but at least the recognition that it was a shared grief just showed me that for us I probably did the right thing and we are now stronger as a couple for it.

My point is....it works for different couples in different ways. But no one should expect or tell you to just bottle it up. Talk to someone, vent anon on a forum or just let a little out with one person and another with someone else. Wished this thread had been around 5months ago

mcgiggles

nikkibikki wrote: »

Why wait? I'd nearly plead with you not to if you can at all. I know of so many people who have suffered so much because they waited.

It took me a long time to get over it, and in the last year and a bit we've got our farm up and running a lot of our finances went into that, now we're planning the wedding, so its just easier to wait until after that, and tbh we were young enough when it happened so we still have time on our side. Hopefully it will be just as easy to conceive the next time

endagibson

Missus had a miscarriage in late 2014. I could say the day, date and time, but I don't want to give too many details. Was the three month scan. No heartbeat. It was plain that something was wrong as the chap doing the scan went all quiet. The missus knew it too as she was squeezing my hand tighter and tighter.
Won't go into the emotions as the posters before me were more than eloquent.
So...we end up in a legal situation. Solicitor recommended that the missus visit a counsellor, maybe a psychologist for a report. No point in me bothering with anything like that: there would be no damage to show for me as a man.

Edit: The last sentence is paraphrasing the solicitor.

Neyite

My partner has never spoken about ours much. I asked him once. He said he cant. That it would feel like floodgates opening and he's not ready for that.

We were finally expecting after 18 months of trying ourselves and 3 months of Clomid and it was twins to boot. I think he was utterly blind-sided by the loss when we had the second scan that showed one of the sacs much smaller and greyer and still. He dropped me home and went into work. He has no idea what he did at work that day, it was all a daze.

It was hugely confusing at the time too because we still had one so we were still excited, but also devastated all at once. His colleague was expecting twins but much further along, so there was a daily visual reminder for months for him during my pregnancy. Even now they chat about their kids and she's talking about the mischief her twins gets up to he gets reminded that our child should have a partner in crime too, and he finds that pretty hard at times.

Miscarriages 2-4 (5 if you include the chemical pregnancy during the summer) were just devastating, but by the third, there was an air of resignation in the house, we both know the drill by this stage. The last time I showed him a positive test, he just sat down and exhaled like he was psyching himself up for some looming endurance test. I think we have another 6 months to a year of trying and then we will call it a day. He's still optimistic, but very very cautious about a successful outcome now though.

Neyite

By the way, men can and do join in to the Trying to Conceive forum, and we'd love more to post if they wanted - if you'd feel more comfortable having a dedicated men's TTC thread away from the

cervical mucus

discussions, that's cool too.

The male side of fertility is just as interesting a discussion, and one that is under-represented on Boards. I'd love to see men post in the forum for information and support.

Cartman78

We've been through 2 miscarriages and 2 successful pregnancies since 2011 (each of the successful pregnancies was preceded by a miscarriage).

Both miscarriages were devastating, the second one even more so perhaps. Also because of the timing, it meant that neither of us could "enjoy" the pregnancy at all and we never really relaxed at all until we literally had a screaming baby handed to us in the labour ward.

As a man you feel completely helpless & useless, sitting outside in a crowded waiting room while people all around you are celebrating births, visitors zooming past with flowers and balloons, people ringing everyone in their phone book with details of the name, weight and time of birth etc.

Traditionally I guess, the instinct is to put on a brave face and show no weakness but I have no shame in saying that I was completely broken. Luckily my wife and I were able to talk to each other honestly and openly about how we felt and eventually we got to a point where we could accept what had happened and move on.

We both went for counselling (independently, not as a couple) following both miscarriages and I would strongly recommend this to anyone as you can't bottle things up forever. I went through my EAP programme at work but there's load of other options out there.

Obviously, we feel blessed to have two healthy children (I am not a religious person by any means, and generally hate the use of 'blessed' in that context but I cannot think of a better word at the moment) but the loss of two other potential lives will always stay with us

TheDoc

My GF and I had this unfortunately happen to us last year. No for warning of issues, just happened. I just kicked immediately into like a "mode" and into hospital, concerned for her(she had fainted and taken a bad fall after stuff happened) and I was just focused on that. I guess it was trying to be strong and reassuring that everything will be fine and the likes.

The staff in the hospital were brilliant and really a big help. My partner stayed in overnight and stuff and the next day or so a nurse took me aside and said that this is usually "too tough for the mother" but I was brought through a number of forms I had to fill and sign relating to identification, if we wanted to know the gender, burial procedures etc. I just totally broke down, really just dawned on me and hit me hard. I guess it's just the stereotype and with experience maybe it is worth for the mother to do it, but it was easily the toughest thing I've ever done and I hope I never have to do it again.

We were lucky that we had good support around us with family, my work were very empathetic and supportive as were friends and likes. We kept it relatively low key, this post is as public as its ever been really.

My GF is expecting this weekend, and while its been a massive "Look at how things have a way of working out" it's still tough to not get worried or think back. I guess we are lucky we have a wonderful daughter as is, and very excited for whats to come.

Must say in no uncertain terms, the staff in Hollies St. were incredible. Really sympathetic and there was one older nurse in particular who was really going out of her way to make me comfortable. Probably acknowledged it wasn't easy as my GF was recovering in a labour ward and it was generally excited woman and couples around us while we were dealing with what happened.

Lucyfur

I've had a few but one in particular stays in my mind as it was particularly horrible for himself. It was an ectopic pregnancy that happened right after a miscarriage. A scan showed that it would definitely require surgery but keyhole would suffice. I was brought to surgery at 9pm and my husband was told I'd be back in an hour. I was gone til 2am, surgery was much more detailed that they had first thought. He sat in a dark day room for 5 hours not knowing what was going on 5 years on it still upsets me. I was completely out of it when I came back to the ward but I was so so aware of him being next to me and I could nearly feel his worry and relief. He's always said the losses have been harder on me and I've always told him they are our losses together.

Hellrazer

Neyite wrote: »

By the way, men can and do join in to the Trying to Conceive forum, and we'd love more to post if they wanted - if you'd feel more comfortable having a dedicated men's TTC thread away from the cervical mucu] discussions, that's cool too.

Jesus I remember that--even Mrs Hellrazer measuring the CM with a ruler!!!

The male side of fertility is just as interesting a discussion, and one that is under-represented on Boards. I'd love to see men post in the forum for information and support.

I have in the past but it does feel sometimes men in there are treated with a "What do you know attitude"

Ive been through miscarriages,Premmie birth (my oldest was born at 28 weeks and weighed just under 2 kg)--That's a whole other thread in itself.

Multiple rounds of IVF,Napro.
I had to inject my wife daily with hormones, etc.Im probably more qualified in this area than a lot of the women in there!!!

But Im a man--What do I know.

All jokes aside I think youre idea of a mens only TTC thread is something that I could have done with years ago-but is something that you really should look at--maybe not juts a TTC thread but a mens general discussion for all pregnancy related stuff ie exactly what this thread is about but in the main forum.

I probably wont be much use in there now "See Vascetomy thread )

Neyite

Hellrazer, I think your perspective on Male factor issues would be of much more benefit in there than you realise. You've already got far more first hand knowledge than most.

In my view as a mod, any man who gets short shrift in parenting discussions on any level is worthy of hitting the report button on.

I'll stop derailing this discussion now, but I'll set up a thread over there and anyone who wants to kick off the chat, please join in.