What's it like to work in civil service/CSO?

lotsofsheep

Hoping someone can help me out with some honest opinions on this one. I have a job offer from the CSO in Cork, and trying to decide what to do. I am in the private sector currently with similarish money, commute etc. My motivation for moving to the civil service would be the opportunity to do something different and worthwhile (I'm bored where I am and tired of just making money for the 'man'), and also the fact that, at least on the surface, it seems family, work/life balance friendly (e.g. career breaks, term time, shorter working week)

I'm just wondering about the culture and work environment. You hear lots of bad press surrounding the civil service, but it's hard to determine how much is spin and how much is true. With all the cutbacks and reduction of terms over the last few years, I can only guess that morale must be pretty low? Are people generally happy in the civil service, or do a lot of people come to work miserable/unmotivated/demoralised everyday? If that's the case, I just couldn't see myself being happy there. A lot of being happy in work is being around positive people I think. Also, it seems very hierarchical to me. I've never worked in an environment with a manager for every 2/3 people... what's that like? And is it true that you have to clock in and out....that sounds a bit like going back to school, and must lead to a lot of clockwatching?

Any opinions welcome, but please don't turn this into a civil service bashing thread.

There is no automatic entitlement to, career breaks, term time. I know career brakes have become very hard to get, you do know you don't get paid for career brakes or shorter working week unless you mean flexi time and you can work up your hours.

dextero

Very hard question to answer as the CSO is a very big place with very different areas. A lot depends on the type of job you are taking ie clerical officer, statistician, IT. On the whole it is a good place to work but as with every business some areas are better than others. There has been a push to hire people with degrees lately which is causing the older staff to feel like they have no career progression opportunities, esp in IT but hopefully this will improve once things settle down a bit. There are family friendly options and usually people are granted them but if you are in a very busy area this is not always possible.
Yes you have to clock in and out so you do have to watch the clock. There is also flexi time which is good. Core hours are 10 to 12.30 and 2.30 to 4. The flexi time is from 8am to 7pm.

wench

The clocking in and out can actually be quite liberating.
I came in from private industry where leaving at 4 would get you dirty looks or snide comments about taking a half day (even though I'd been in since 7!)
Now it passes unremarked, as everyone knows you're doing your hours.

There was an employee engagement survey done last year, you can see the results here
http://www.per.gov.ie/en/civil-service-employee-engagement-survey/

lotsofsheep

dextero wrote: »

Very hard question to answer as the CSO is a very big place with very different areas. A lot depends on the type of job you are taking ie clerical officer, statistician, IT. On the whole it is a good place to work but as with every business some areas are better than others. There has been a push to hire people with degrees lately which is causing the older staff to feel like they have no career progression opportunities, esp in IT but hopefully this will improve once things settle down a bit. There are family friendly options and usually people are granted them but if you are in a very busy area this is not always possible.
Yes you have to clock in and out so you do have to watch the clock. There is also flexi time which is good. Core hours are 10 to 12.30 and 2.30 to 4. The flexi time is from 8am to 7pm.

The flexi idea sounds good (although 8 am is a little late actually for me. I'm a bit of an early bird.). I had heard about this from a friend who worked as a temp in public service. Assume you can work up the odd half day or day off using the flexi?

lotsofsheep

wench wrote: »

The clocking in and out can actually be quite liberating.
I came in from private industry where leaving at 4 would get you dirty looks or snide comments about taking a half day (even though I'd been in since 7!)
Now it passes unremarked, as everyone knows you're doing your hours.

There was an employee engagement survey done last year, you can see the results here

Can see what you mean on that. I'm an early bird too, and leaving at 4 can raise a few eyebrows. I tend to just ignore them though!

Survey looks interesting - thanks. Assume it was anonymous i.e. people weren't afraid to say what they really thought?

dextero

lotsofsheep wrote: »

The flexi idea sounds good (although 8 am is a little late actually for me. I'm a bit of an early bird.). I had heard about this from a friend who worked as a temp in public service. Assume you can work up the odd half day or day off using the flexi?

You can work up a day and a half per month once you are below the AP grade, new AP's, stats etc arent allowed work up any time but are allowed use the flexible hours.

wench

lotsofsheep wrote: »

Survey looks interesting - thanks. Assume it was anonymous i.e. people weren't afraid to say what they really thought?

Yes, it was fully anonymous.

uck51js9zml2yt

Shorter working years aren't guaranteed. You need to apply for it. It's works by averaging out the number of weeks you work over the entire year.
Eg. 6 weeks off. 52-6 = 46 weeks salary which is divided by 52 to give you a lower wage over the entire year.

scamalert

As someone above mentioned cso is wide field,depending where you gonna land.

But few inputs from my experience - a lot of people in civil service are there for many years in fact if you land in big branch youd be looking at people that would been there 10-20-30+ years ,so you have some clicks that been there for years and would be pretty much down to their own view on politics,sports,even stuff like place where you from,their own jokes etc.

Now if you start as CO and youll be in busy role expect a lot of stuff asked to do from superiors or even people just above your level,also many superiors wont acknowledge you much,unless its reviews every few months or reporting back-very formal communication.

And yes theres plenty of miserable working there they might rake in a lot of- off time,good money wise yet unhappy,since some might be in same position for years so new comers are like some threat to them,if you dont click in whatever crap their into,eventually some words might be spoken behind your back - well i guess this could apply for most jobs.

last factor is age a lot of would be in 50+ range and not many young faces,thus again depending where you worked before and their own thinking and whole passing day crack is pretty dry-what something might find funny or just passing some joke,in cso it might be like insult and vise versa.

That said theres reason people stick in civil service for decades,since its almost guaranteed income,plenty of holiday time to take,paid breaks,others allowances depending on position.more holidays then in any other sector,fixed hours in many cases or flexi thus possible to rake in extra days off-once your settled.

Then you have ordinary type of people who are go happy and there to help,or just in a good mood in general.

theres no bullying per say,so you wouldn't get picked directly or sabotaged just because someone didnt like you.

Overall its formal setting and hierarchical,if you land in smth like staticstics payroll,corespondence expect to spend 7-8 hours just typing answering calls emails,doing clerical work glued to desk,if you get not so important role and manage to finish work on time most days once you clock out you can forget work till next day,but if getting higher position or department might turn out bringing and doing work while being off just to meet some deadline.

So not to repeat myself there are benefits and what i said could apply to any job,but depending on your own experience its slow job to progress in and while its not manual labor but repetitive to no end,and you either might love it or hate it depending who you get in with.

T1986

Hi there

I started in CSO in April. This is my first civil service position & I really really like it!
There are loads of new faces showing up every few weeks so now is a really good time to start because your not the only newbie!
There is parking onsite, a lovely canteen, and a social club. I have found everyone really welcoming and friendly. To be honest I think everyone is delighted to see new blood coming in. From what I have heard, things have been very stagnant in the civil service since the recession & there was wage cuts, etc. But now that recruitment has started again, it definitely gives a new lease of life to the place & staff can see that the worst is over.
You will have an immediate supervisor (EO), and there will then be another supervisor (HEO). In my personal experience, my EO has been so welcoming & has trained me in really well. She is incredibly approachable & I know I can ask her to help me with anything I'm not 100% sure of. Obviously some sections will be busier than others but with any new job you go into, you are going to have to make a good impression and try your best and that is what will get you further.
There are open competitions coming up more regularly now on public jobs for EO & HEO so, although I have just come in as a CO, I will definitely be applying for future competitions. In my opinion, that is the best thing about the civil service, the fact that there are opportunities for everyone. They are open competitions so anyone can go for them so it is up to yourself how far you want to go/push yourself.
If you have any other questions, just ask

Yenwod

lotsofsheep wrote: »

I'm just wondering about the culture and work environment. You hear lots of bad press surrounding the civil service, but it's hard to determine how much is spin and how much is true. With all the cutbacks and reduction of terms over the last few years, I can only guess that morale must be pretty low? Are people generally happy in the civil service, or do a lot of people come to work miserable/unmotivated/demoralised everyday? If that's the case, I just couldn't see myself being happy there. A lot of being happy in work is being around positive people I think. Also, it seems very hierarchical to me. I've never worked in an environment with a manager for every 2/3 people... what's that like? And is it true that you have to clock in and out....that sounds a bit like going back to school, and must lead to a lot of clockwatching?.

So difficult to say. I've worked in 3 departments. The first two I liked and had no issues with. My current one, in general, the staff are quite demotivated and there are days I want to scream in frustration...but that can also all depend on the section you're in, staff you're working with, managers you have.

There can be a lot of management in a section...but again, that can depend on your section. I've worked with a bundle of managers in a small section and also just one, over a big section.

Clock in / clock out / Flexi time is probably one of the best things about the job. I love being able to come in at 8 so I can leave at 4 and have the evening to myself. Equally those who love their beds, love being able to sleep late and come in at 10.

I haven't worked in the CSO but I imagine it would be a nice place to work and depending where you are, quite interesting. No matter where you go though, there will be a bit of a culture shock going from private to public sector. Not necessarily a bad one, but they do work in a very different ways so it will take a bit of adjustment.

splendid101

I've been a Clerical Officer for just over six years. Four in one department and in another place around two and a half years.

It suits some people and others won't like it. Depends on a lot of factors.

The two offices I've worked in have been very laid back. Plenty of work to do always, and I've had deadlines, but they're usually possible to meet relatively easily, you will just have to work at a steady level, not chilling out with your feet up, but not pushed to maximum capacity either. You can usually work a bit harder and there'll be people willing to sit back and let you do more. You won't have to take your work home with you. Some offices may be more high pressure.

Agree with above that the work will more than likely be repetitive. For example, 20 files to go through and do basically the same thing on every single one.

There are definitely places you can work that will be worthwhile, you can make a difference to people's lives. Not all departments will be like that.

The Central Statistics Office performs an important service. It's valuable to the whole country and beyond. That doesn't necessarily mean you will feel valued and important.

The family friendly/work-life balance aspect is the biggest advantage for me (even though I've no family). Flexi time is a massive thing.
• A day and a half off every month if you're willing to work up the hours (some offices only allow a day, although they should allow the extra half as well).
• Start at 10 and take a two hour lunch and leave at four if you feel like it once in a while.
• Work eight to half four (1/2 hour lunch) and you've your full day done.
• 20 minute (most people take 30 minutes) break every morning.
• No messing around with weekends or overtime.
• You get paid the same every week no matter what, increment every year for your first 10-13 years (there have been some cutbacks, leaving some increments delayed by 3 months, I'm not sure of the exact facts. You will get increments once you can make it to work on time and don't cause trouble).
• Looks great to banks if you want a mortgage.

The money starting out as a CO is pretty rubbish, but you say you'll be on similar money. No chances of talking up your salary or anything. The money is the money, work like a mother*cker or sit on your backside for 7 hours and 24 minutes a day, you'll get the same.

For me, it's a job with great flexibility, just turn up, do your time, go home. I wouldn't expect to get a huge amount of reward from it. There will be more opportunity for advancement than over the previous 8-10 years but it won't happen overnight. Appearing like a great lad to all your bosses doesn't necessarily make a difference to promotion either, it's all about competitions (it can possibly help in certain circumstances for promotions within your office, but I've heard many reports of favouritism. I suppose you could use that to your advantage too ).

Some people's morale is low. I've possibly been lucky. There's probably a lot of new entrants around which should help. They'll be a bit younger, less jaded and set in their ways. You'll be working with a lot of auld wans. There'll be a grumpy auld fella that smokes like a trooper, likes his pints but also has the chats with the auld ones about his grandkids. There'll definitely be one or two people with one of the following characteristics: potential serial killer, awful B.O., freakishly hairy ears, communicates solely by grunting, massive hypochondriac, incredibly lazy slob, complete bore, constantly talks to themselves. If you're particularly unlucky you'll be sitting at a desk next to someone with all those attributes and more. There'll be a few sound people more than likely also. Although that can never be predicted. Maybe you'll hate everyone with a vengeance.

Overall, I would say there definitely is too much hierarchy. But it all depends on the manager doesn't it? It hasn't been too intrusive on my working life.

Clocking in and out doesn't bother me. It's standard enough for office jobs I would have thought. You need to clock for flexi anyway.

A lot of the stuff you're asking about can vary from office to office anyway. The questions and answers would be the same if you were asking about a retail job or construction company.

I'd recommend the civil service to anyone as an option to consider at the very least. You will never, ever, ever have to think about your CV every again if you take the job (if you don't want to). If you want to challenge yourself there'll be opportunities.

Hope that's useful.

lotsofsheep

Thanks to everyone for the replies on this.
I'm still undecided, but will have to make up my mind pretty soon.
The replies here have been a great help though.
Particularly liked the list of people I might work with (BO, hairy ears, serial killer etc) - very funny stuff!

eire1987

T1986 wrote: »

Hi there

I started in CSO in April. This is my first civil service position & I really really like it!
There are loads of new faces showing up every few weeks so now is a really good time to start because your not the only newbie!
There is parking onsite, a lovely canteen, and a social club. I have found everyone really welcoming and friendly. To be honest I think everyone is delighted to see new blood coming in. From what I have heard, things have been very stagnant in the civil service since the recession & there was wage cuts, etc. But now that recruitment has started again, it definitely gives a new lease of life to the place & staff can see that the worst is over.
You will have an immediate supervisor (EO), and there will then be another supervisor (HEO). In my personal experience, my EO has been so welcoming & has trained me in really well. She is incredibly approachable & I know I can ask her to help me with anything I'm not 100% sure of. Obviously some sections will be busier than others but with any new job you go into, you are going to have to make a good impression and try your best and that is what will get you further.
There are open competitions coming up more regularly now on public jobs for EO & HEO so, although I have just come in as a CO, I will definitely be applying for future competitions. In my opinion, that is the best thing about the civil service, the fact that there are opportunities for everyone. They are open competitions so anyone can go for them so it is up to yourself how far you want to go/push yourself.
If you have any other questions, just ask

CSO is a grand place to work in, I have been in the cork office for many years, now in the Dublin office (They have two offices in Dublin). I agree with T1986 the Cork office has been needing new blood for ages.


"There is parking onsite, a lovely canteen, and a social club. I have found everyone really welcoming and friendly. "

Couldn't agree more with that. The have started a well-being committee and that has being nothing more than a success. If I was you I would go for it, but then again thats my opinion.

Jen Pigs Fly

Civil service is grand ...

Although I severely dislike where I am .. Purely because I'm stuck in the revenue call centre ... it's soul destroying if it weren't for the rubbish money and daily abuse over the phones it'd be grand :pac:

I've been trying my entire time here to either get another department or promotion but no luck as of yet!

Techless

Are all jobs in the CSO advertised on the Public Jobs website ?

wench

Techless wrote: »

Are all jobs in the CSO advertised on the Public Jobs website ?

Pretty much. Some census staff and survey takers are recruited directly.

http://www.cso.ie/en/aboutus/organisation/employmentofpermanentstaff/

Bella1602

Hi there,

Bit late to the conversation but was wondering whether you ended up taking the position and what it has been like so far. I'm offered a position as well but still in the process of making a decision. Is it true that flexi-time is not available for new starters? Thanks for feedback!

uck51js9zml2yt

Bella1602 wrote: »

Hi there,

Bit late to the conversation but was wondering whether you ended up taking the position and what it has been like so far. I'm offered a position as well but still in the process of making a decision. Is it true that flexi-time is not available for new starters? Thanks for feedback!

The availability of flexi really depends on the department.
In in DCC with a flexi day every 4 weeks plus 27 days holiday.

Stheno

Mariam Wide Pedigree wrote: »

The availability of flexi really depends on the department.
In in DCC with a flexi day every 4 weeks plus 27 days holiday.

So you could end up with eight weeks leave?

uck51js9zml2yt

Stheno wrote: »

So you could end up with eight weeks leave?

No:(
You can take a day every 4weeks and have a total of 2 days rolling over.(14.48 hours) .
Any more than that is lost.

What it does do is make taking holidays difficult as in theory you could have 2 weeks holidays spanning 2 flexi periods and only use up 8 days, with 2 flexi thrown in. if a bank holiday is in the mix, ..well you get my point!

Bella1602

Thanks for feedback. So no significant changes since Lansdowne agreement then?

dextero

Bella1602 wrote: »

Hi there,

Bit late to the conversation but was wondering whether you ended up taking the position and what it has been like so far. I'm offered a position as well but still in the process of making a decision. Is it true that flexi-time is not available for new starters? Thanks for feedback!

If your grade is AP or higher new entrants cannot build up flexi leave. Grades below this can build up a day and a half per month. But since we had our working day extended, approx 30mins per day, very few manage to work up flexi.

Bella1602

Thanks for that. Not sure what grade I am to be honest. Entry level as statistician at CSO so is this AP or higher?

dextero

Bella1602 wrote: »

Thanks for that. Not sure what grade I am to be honest. Entry level as statistician at CSO so is this AP or higher?

Statistician is on par with AP so you wont be able to build up flexi leave but you can work flexible hours ie the core hours are 10 - 12.30 and 2.30 - 4, you have to be here for those hours. Outside this the hours are 8 - 10 and 4pm - 7pm You have the month to work up your time ie to make sure your hours are at 0 by the end of the month so if you leave at 4pm or come in at 10am one day you can make it up another day within the month.

Bella1602

Thanks for that. Is this something that only came in with recent agreements? So essentially there's no point for working beyond the weekly 37.5 hours if I can't use these hours as a half day at some stage..

Has any one transitioned from private sector to the CSO? Any feedback on that? Also, what's it like in terms of projects, do you change across departments or are you stuck with the same one for years?

Thanks!

dextero

This only came in with recent agreements. Some people do end up loosing time if they are very busy and have to work on late but on the whole I dont think this happens much.

Jazz Book

Hi Bella

Can you say what the worked sample was like, example data to analysis and so forth?

Ayuntamiento

dextero wrote: »

If your grade is AP or higher new entrants cannot build up flexi leave. Grades below this can build up a day and a half per month. But since we had our working day extended, approx 30mins per day, very few manage to work up flexi.

Everybody I know is able to get flexi up. Working 9-5.30 means that you're already up 30mins for that day. I wouldn't call that a long working day either.

dextero

Ayuntamiento wrote: »

Everybody I know is able to get flexi up. Working 9-5.30 means that you're already up 30mins for that day. I wouldn't call that a long working day either.

All new AP's and higher cannot build up time off via flexi. Their daily working hours are flexible.
9-5 is the standard most private sector workers I know work. You must also remember that there is a huge number of working mothers in the civil service and that extra half an hour a day makes a massive difference to them in particular.

Bella1602

Any thoughts on maternity leave? I'm a good few years away from it but was wondering whether it's paid or unpaid or does that depend on the role/grade you're in? Thanks!

Slydice

Maternity Leave
http://hr.per.gov.ie/maternity-leave/

At present, maternity leave consists of twenty six weeks paid leave with an option to avail of sixteen weeks unpaid additional maternity leave. In general, a minimum of two weeks maternity leave and up to a maximum of fourteen weeks maternity leave may be taken before the due date of birth.

also, just recently:
Paternity Leave
http://hr.per.gov.ie/paternity-leave/

allows one single period of two weeks paid leave to civil servants, who are relevant parents, to provide or assist in the provision of care to a child or to provide support to the relevant adopting parent or mother of the child.

Does NOT depend on role/grade.