Could Neymar overtake Messi...

fryup

....as the greatest ever??

he was sublime tonight, and he is yet to reach his peak physically & technically.

Skylinehead

fryup wrote: »

....as the greatest ever??

he was sublime tonight, and he is yet to reach his peak physically & technically.

He'd want to hurry up - he's 24, and Messi aged 24 hit 90 goals in a year.

CSF

Neymar will overtake Messi, but not anytime soon. Messi has plenty left.

Dirty Dingus McGee

CSF wrote: »

Neymar will overtake Messi, but not anytime soon. Messi has plenty left.

I doubt he will properly overtake him though by actually being better across his whole career than Messi.

CSF

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

I doubt he will properly overtake him though by actually being better across his whole career than Messi.

No, I mean at that particular time. Not better than Messi at his best.

Charizard

CSF wrote: »

Neymar will overtake Messi, but not anytime soon. Messi has plenty left.

Id nearly say Suarez will over take Messi before Neymar

CSF

Charizard wrote: »

Id nearly say Suarez will over take Messi before Neymar

No I reckon the time when Messi will start to drop off is around the time you'd be expect Neymar to be peaking.

Charizard

CSF wrote: »

No I reckon the time when Messi will start to drop off is around the time you'd be expect Neymar to be peaking.

Yeah youre probably right, just a big fan of Suarez, which is funny because his Liverpool connection means I shouldnt :pac:

Johner

fryup wrote: »

....as the greatest ever?

No, just no.

rossie1977

Greatest ever what?

sReq | uTeK

Crack ?

~Rebel~

He'll overtake him at one point or another, as in in terms of their ability at that specific time, but his best will still be well short of Messi's peak. And certainly when their careers are looked back upon, Messi will be waaaay up ahead.

Hell, he's still well off peak Original Ronaldo now imo.

dfx-

He'll never be better than Messi at the same age. I don't think he's as adaptable as Messi who has been all over the pitch at this point, deep, upfront, right wing.

I think given the right set of players and allowed to do his thing, he can be destructive. He wasn't good with Suarez and Messi rested on Saturday.

764dak

He might become better as an international player.

GavRedKing

Neymar wont be better than Messi or Ronaldo but in the next 3 years + he'll end up winning a few Balon D'ors once the other two start winding down, assuming they wind down.

TheNap

I genuinely think Messi is the best passer i have ever seen .

He will just drop deeper as he gets older and be a playmaker.

StringerBell

Neymar had the potential, but he stagnated a little before and after his move to Barca. He is now (and has been for a while) playing at the level you would have thought he was capable of, he will in time overtake Ronaldo and Messi as the top of world football, but he will never now match them in terms of overall career imho.

StringerBell

Maradona is still the greatest btw

TheNap

StringerBell wrote: »

Maradona is still the greatest btw

In your opinion . Having seen both i think Messi is .

marklazarcovic

I would say Luis Suarez is 3rd best at moment,ahead of neymar

Giggsy11

No way, Messi is not only just a goal scorer but his playmaking abilities is easily the best in the world and arguably the best ever.

Charizard

dfx- wrote: »

He'll never be better than Messi at the same age. I don't think he's as adaptable as Messi who has been all over the pitch at this point, deep, upfront, right wing.

I think given the right set of players and allowed to do his thing, he can be destructive. He wasn't good with Suarez and Messi rested on Saturday.

I dont think Messi has been that all over the pitch. Hes pretty much been a inverted forward a false 10.
I agree with you that he will never be as good as Messi at equal ages though, barring injury to Messi obviously

Charizard

TheNap wrote: »

I genuinely think Messi is the best passer i have ever seen .

He will just drop deeper as he gets older and be a playmaker.

Really I could think of ten more easily
I dont see him dropping deeper though, he doesnt have the game at all for midfield, excluding his other worldly ability his work rate is quiet poor

Charizard

marklazarcovic wrote: »

I would say Luis Suarez is 3rd best at moment,ahead of neymar

I would also think that

Charizard

Giggsy11 wrote: »

No way, Messi is not only just a goal scorer but his playmaking abilities is easily the best in the world and arguably the best ever.

I need to learn how to multi quote :pac:
Anyways he really isnt the best never mind easily the best. There is such thing as admiring a player without throwing out facts that arent true
Right now I think you will find most of people say the best playmaker in the world is Ozil. 19 assists for Arsenal is a lot more impressive than 18 for Messi and 19 for Suarez taking Barcelona win games by 4 or 5 goals regularly

GavRedKing

Charizard wrote: »

Really I could think of ten more easily
I dont see him dropping deeper though, he doesnt have the game at all for midfield, excluding his other worldly ability his work rate is quiet poor

Go on so.......

Giggsy11

Charizard wrote: »

I need to learn how to multi quote :pac:
Anyways he really isnt the best never mind easily the best. There is such thing as admiring a player without throwing out facts that arent true
Right now I think you will find most of people say the best playmaker in the world is Ozil. 19 assists for Arsenal is a lot more impressive than 18 for Messi and 19 for Suarez taking Barcelona win games by 4 or 5 goals regularly

Best playmaker in the world is Ozil? Arsenal fans *palm*

Messi is easily the best playmaker in the world and there isn't any doubt on that topic.

GavRedKing

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Best playmaker in the world is Ozil? Arsenal fans *palm*

Messi is easily the best playmaker in the world and there isn't any doubt on that topic.

I'd agree, his vision, weight of pass and execution is better than anyone else on the planet.

Some players have similar qualities, albeit, not to his level, neither can they match his quality in the final third.

If you mention people like Kroos and Pirlo and deeper playmakers then its a different ball game but for a guy in the final third of the pitch, you'll struggle to find someone with Messis overall ability to find a killer pass or keep moves going by drawing people in and popping passes off to team mates.

Charizard

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Best playmaker in the world is Ozil? Arsenal fans *palm*

Messi is easily the best playmaker in the world and there isn't any doubt on that topic.

Im not a Arsenal fan Id say United are my favourite English team

Charizard

GavRedKing wrote: »

Go on so.......

Xavi, Beckham, Figo, Zidane, Rui Costa, Pirlo, Kroos, Ronaldinho, Cesc, Silva, Iniesta, Ozil, Modric, Xabi Alonso and thats the top of my head. Im not dissing Messi in any way hes a magician but just because hes one of the top 2 players in the world doesnt mean hes the best at everything

Skylinehead

Fabregas? Jaysis no.

And he's one of the top 1 players in the world

rossie1977

TheNap wrote: »

In your opinion . Having seen both i think Messi is .

Having seen both I disagree

Maradona single handed took two far weaker argentine teams (than the ones messi plays in) to the world cup final

If maradona was playing today where defenders are not allowed to tackle he would have a field-day.

Dirty Dingus McGee

rossie1977 wrote: »

Having seen both I disagree

Maradona single handed took two far weaker argentine teams (than the ones messi plays in) to the world cup final

If maradona was playing today where defenders are not allowed to tackle he would have a field-day.

Clearly they are both great players but Messi's lack of success/luck in international football shouldn't be held against him as luck plays a huge role in who wins international tournaments, luck doesn't play a role in being great every single year.

Charizard

Skylinehead wrote: »

Fabregas? Jaysis no.

And he's one of the top 1 players in the world

Ah their we go, I know when not to argue :pac:

Charizard

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Clearly they are both great players but Messi's lack of success/luck in international football shouldn't be held against him as luck plays a huge role in who wins international tournaments, luck doesn't play a role in being great every single year.

I personally think Maradonna was the better player of the two. But I agree with you his lack of sucess at international level shouldnt be held against him, for me its a clutching at straws argument. Saying that I really hope he wins the next copa, not the world cup obviously thats Irelands to lose :cool:

TheNap

Maradona was a better dribbler.

Messi a better finisher, passer long and short, vision , dead balls ( free kicks ) touch and the fact he has or will do it over a far greater period ( consistency ) than Maradona makes him the better player IMO.

GLaDOS

We need a Messi v Maradona subforum

eagle eye

TheNap wrote: »

Maradona was a better dribbler.

Messi a better finisher, passer long and short, vision , dead balls ( free kicks ) touch and the fact he has or will do it over a far greater period ( consistency ) than Maradona makes him the better player IMO.

I'm guessing here that you didn't see much of Maradona. Just the fact that you say Messi is better at free kicks is enough to have me presume that.

Muff_Daddy

TheNap wrote: »

Maradona was a better dribbler.

Messi a better finisher, passer long and short, vision , dead balls ( free kicks ) touch and the fact he has or will do it over a far greater period ( consistency ) than Maradona makes him the better player IMO.

Messi was/is the better finisher of the two. The rest is very much debateable.

dfx-

rossie1977 wrote: »

Having seen both I disagree

Maradona single handed took two far weaker argentine teams (than the ones messi plays in) to the world cup final

If maradona was playing today where defenders are not allowed to tackle he would have a field-day.

you could suggest that Maradona is lucky he had Burrachaga in his team and not Higuain.

The Golden Miller

Neymar has always been better than Ronaldo, but will never be better than Messi at his best. In turn, Messi will always drop short of being on that echelon with Maradona and Cruyff. Lacks that leadership quality

GavRedKing

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Neymar has always been better than Ronaldo, but will never be better than Messi at his best. In turn, Messi will always drop short of being on that echelon with Maradona and Cruyff. Lacks that leadership quality

Has he? When did this happen?

GLaDOS

I predict Gerd Muller comparisons

sReq | uTeK

Ronaldo for me all day long......................:cool::P

sky88

Neymar will never get near the top levels of ronaldo and messi. Hes a terrific player but i dont think he has the drive to be the best.

Suarez has been better then him at liverpool and barcalona.

Charizard

dfx- wrote: »

you could suggest that Maradona is lucky he had Burrachaga in his team and not Higuain.

Thats a stupid argument, any striker can miss chances Higuain is a superstar at the highest level. Its just as much Messi's fault as Higuain's

bucketybuck

GavRedKing wrote: »

Has he? When did this happen?

Surely as a soccer mod you must recognise who is making that claim?

~Rebel~

Charizard wrote: »

Thats a stupid argument, any striker can miss chances Higuain is a superstar at the highest level. Its just as much Messi's fault as Higuain's

Well, except Higuin has missed key chances in massively high profile games.

I mean, better finishing from him with an easy chance (or staying onside for the other crucial moment) and Argentina are world champions before it ever even gets to extra time.
Also had bloody awful misses in consecutive Copa America Finals. Those key moments could have been the difference between Messi having 3 international titles, versus none.

Charizard

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Neymar has always been better than Ronaldo

Charizard

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Well, except Higuin has missed key chances in massively high profile games.

I mean, better finishing from him with 2 arguably easy chances and Argentina are world champions before it ever even gets to extra time.

Thats a whole lot of ifs and buts though, you realise Chile and Germany could easily have scored 2 goals against them using the same logic

~Rebel~

Charizard wrote: »

Thats a whole lot of ifs and buts though, you realise Chile and Germany could easily have scored 2 goals against them using the same logic

But the point being discussed is literally just that - the argument is that Maradona dragged his team to win the world cup - well he had someone else putting away the chances. Messi didn't. The chances were made, but the striker couldn't finish.

Maradona didn't score in that final. Burruchaga put away his chance to win the match. Higuain didn't. And thats the difference between how many world cups each player has.

As you say, there are fine lines which can go either way, which is why I don't think the world cup win versus the world cup loss is an argument for either players merit.