Potential New Bike Café around Enniskerry

Sunsets On Tuesday

Hi guys, have been giving this some thought recently, and was thinking of setting up some sort of Bike Café, preferably in Enniskerry but maybe Kilternan/Glencullen or Stepaside.
It would be a "cyclists café", so a perfect place to stop on the busy Enniskerry Road, which has become a cycling hub over the years.
It would also provide a bike workshop for repairs, a place to top up water, a place to watch all the cycling you can handle and just general stuff like that.
Would also look into bike rental and maybe a small shop.
At the moment this is all in my head, don't even know where exactly I'd set it up and if it would be viable. To me it sounds like a great idea, and it's odd that's there's not already a facility like this in the area.
It may be the worst idea ever, or it may be great, all I want to know is your opinion on it, could it work? Would you use it if it existed? All feedback welcomed!

Miklos

Have you seen this? I would imagine they may be thinking along the same lines as yourself.

Still, sounds like a great idea. Popped into the Rapha Cycle Club in Soho last week and it was great to be able to sit down with a coffee and watch some bike racing! It definitely struck me that a similar idea in Dublin/Wicklow would be great.

Sunsets On Tuesday

Thanks for that link! Looks awesome. Yeah I'd say if it could work anywhere it would be Enniskerry, it's such a hub of cycling nowadays. What sort of place is the Rapha Cycle Club? What sort of facilities etc..

ted1

I think Enniskerry is well serviced and also to close to the city. Maybe it's because im starting on the south side but I wouldn't dream of stopping in Enniskerry

robyntmorton

ted1 wrote: »

I think Enniskerry is well serviced and also to close to the city. Maybe it's because im starting on the south side but I wouldn't dream of stopping in Enniskerry

I would actually disagree with this. I would have thought Enniskerry would be a better option, as a lot of routes from north and south would pass by here. That said, I agree that Enniskerry is well serviced, and the competition may be greater than you imagine, even with a USP.

godtabh

robyntmorton wrote: »

I would actually disagree with this. I would have thought Enniskerry would be a better option, as a lot of routes from north and south would pass by here. That said, I agree that Enniskerry is well serviced, and the competition may be greater than you imagine, even with a USP.

For a lot its very early in the ride (about 5km for me).

I'd suggest that a lot of time and effort is put in to researching this.

Sunsets On Tuesday

godtabh wrote: »

For a lot its very early in the ride (about 5km for me).

I'd suggest that a lot of time and effort is put in to researching this.

Thanks for the feedback guys. What town would be ideal for most cyclists then? For me, although Enniskerry is early on in my cycles, I also come back through there aswell, that's why I thought it would be a good place.

robyntmorton

godtabh wrote: »

For a lot its very early in the ride (about 5km for me).

I'd suggest that a lot of time and effort is put in to researching this.

It would be early for me too, but hey, a lot of routes loop.

Also, the second part - THIS! A million times this!

Wishbone Ash

Without wishing to put a dampener on it, you'll need to ask yourself if it's viable especially if specifically aimed at cyclists. There won't be too many about on a wet Monday morning in January. I regularly stop at the hippy cafe in Laragh. Many consider it a busy spot for cyclists but they may only visit on a Saturday/Sunday. I'm often the only person there when I stop (bearing in mind that it is also a shop).

(BTW - Enniskerry is perfect for me - about 50k from home. )

iwillhtfu

I'd imagine if you want to make a coffee shop work get yourself set up with a mobile coffee shop with good coffee/cakes and base yourself up in the wicklow hills. You'll get hikers/cyclists etc You could also setup the basic tools for cyclists in the back and let them work away as a goodwill gesture.

The fact you're mobile means you could roll with the seasons and perhaps cover cx races in winter.

Seems to work well for caffe banba in Donegal

Wishbone Ash

iwillhtfu wrote: »

...Seems to work well for caffe banba in Donegal.....

But that is situated at a very specific point (Malin Head) where many visit and a captive audience as such as motorists are required to park and walk up to the actual head. I doubt if it would work if motorists could drive by Malin Head without getting out of their vehicles.

fat bloke

I don't think there's anywhere in Ireland rents road bikes is there? So that's a gap in the market for sure.
With regard to a bike specific cafe, the more the merrier. I'd be a regular enough at the Laragh stop cos it's kind of a natural half way point in my spin but I'm not so sure about Enniskerry. Once I'm within an hour of home my tendency is to pedal on and get home for my own coffee and bananas.

Sunsets On Tuesday

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Without wishing to put a dampener on it, you'll need to ask yourself if it's viable especially if specifically aimed at cyclists. There won't be too many about on a wet Monday morning in January. I regularly stop at the hippy cafe in Laragh. Many consider it a busy spot for cyclists but they may only visit on a Saturday/Sunday. I'm often the only person there when I stop (bearing in mind that it is also a shop).



(BTW - Enniskerry is perfect for me - about 50k from home. )

Yeah that's absolutely true, that would be an issue. Weekends would work perfectly but during the week, especially winter, there may not be much traffic into the place. Could develop it as a tourist spot though, where they could rent bikes and use Enniskerry as a starting point for their cycles.

Sunsets On Tuesday

fat bloke wrote: »

I don't think there's anywhere in Ireland rents road bikes is there? So that's a gap in the market for sure.
With regard to a bike specific cafe, the more the merrier. I'd be a regular enough at the Laragh stop cos it's kind of a natural half way point in my spin but I'm not so sure about Enniskerry. Once I'm within an hour of home my tendency is to pedal on and get home for my own coffee and bananas.

Yeah that's what I was thinking too, that was the main idea actually as there is a huge gap for actual proper road bike rental in Ireland. The café would just be the easy money maker (well not easy but perhaps easier than bike rental), it would be something to supplement income if you will. Just with the road bike rental, would you think people would go for it? Or prefer to stick with the mountain biking or dublinbikes in town? Or perhaps it could not just be aimed at tourists? Again tough to know but interesting to hear others views on it.

iwillhtfu

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

But that is situated at a very specific point (Malin Head) where many visit and a captive audience as such as motorists are required to park and walk up to the actual head. I doubt if it would work if motorists could drive by Malin Head without getting out of their vehicles.

To be honest I'd imagine it's the cafe that keeps the afloat but I don't agree with your point either way. Plenty of places in wicklow that would allow a semi captive audience and I would imagine a larger footfall than Banbas crown has.

Also once you get your name out there there'd be potential for regular location/time etc allowing cyclists an option.

nak

Sunsets On Tuesday wrote: »

Thanks for that link! Looks awesome. Yeah I'd say if it could work anywhere it would be Enniskerry, it's such a hub of cycling nowadays. What sort of place is the Rapha Cycle Club? What sort of facilities etc..

The Rapha clubs tend to be in major cities, selling clothes, coffee and hosting events for the members of their worldwide cycling club.

Ronde in Edinburgh is a good example - one side is a bike shop (high end bikes/clothes), the other a cafe. They have a club attached and use the shop as a meeting point. It's in a residential area in the city. The food and coffee is excellent, so not all their customers are cyclists. Show road and cyclocross races throughout the year in the cafe.

brocbrocach

I know the hippy cafe is there already but Laragh would strike me as possibly the most busy cycle hub in Ireland. It has Sally Gap, Wicklow Gap, Slieve Maan, etc all on the doorstep and it has the huge tourist draw of Glendalough right down the road. I suppose it wouldn't capture some of the city market though.
On the northside, Howth is a huge draw for cyclists. It's crawling with us on summer evenings and weekends and again, there's a big tourist crowd to tap into. Also the town is missing a bike shop since the last one moved out and is curiously poorly served by cafes. Can't imagine you'd rent many road bikes out there though.

Sunsets On Tuesday

nak wrote: »

The Rapha clubs tend to be in major cities, selling clothes, coffee and hosting events for the members of their worldwide cycling club.

Ronde in Edinburgh is a good example - one side is a bike shop (high end bikes/clothes), the other a cafe. They have a club attached and use the shop as a meeting point. It's in a residential area in the city. The food and coffee is excellent, so not all their customers are cyclists. Show road and cyclocross races throughout the year in the cafe.

Thanks for that example of the café/restaurant/shop in Edinburgh. That all sounds brilliant, but serves to emphasis just how important location is. Is that in the middle of the city, or in the suburbs like Enniskerry? Cheers for the reply.

Sunsets On Tuesday

brocbrocach wrote: »

I know the hippy cafe is there already but Laragh would strike me as possibly the most busy cycle hub in Ireland. It has Sally Gap, Wicklow Gap, Slieve Maan, etc all on the doorstep and it has the huge tourist draw of Glendalough right down the road. I suppose it wouldn't capture some of the city market though.
On the northside, Howth is a huge draw for cyclists. It's crawling with us on summer evenings and weekends and again, there's a big tourist crowd to tap into. Also the town is missing a bike shop since the last one moved out and is curiously poorly served by cafes. Can't imagine you'd rent many road bikes out there though.

Yeah Laragh is a great spot but has the hippie café already.. maybe I could invest in that, it does have the perfect location.. Yeah also Howth is a great spot and is missing a bike shop and cafés, would also benefit from the new cycleway they're building from Eastlink to Sutton. Again location is really the hardest question.

DanDublin1982

Sunsets On Tuesday wrote: »

Yeah that's what I was thinking too, that was the main idea actually as there is a huge gap for actual proper road bike rental in Ireland. The café would just be the easy money maker (well not easy but perhaps easier than bike rental), it would be something to supplement income if you will. Just with the road bike rental, would you think people would go for it? Or prefer to stick with the mountain biking or dublinbikes in town? Or perhaps it could not just be aimed at tourists? Again tough to know but interesting to hear others views on it.

They might not be willing to talk with you as they could view you as competition but I think it would be worth your while to see if some of the existing bike rental companies would be willing to tell you the reasons they don't rent out road bikes (if indeed that is the case, I've no idea).

From a very outside pov it strikes me as something that could be quite costly to get going (different sizes, spec of bike etc). Its possibly one of those gaps that exists for a good reason.

Eamonnator

What is the name of the cafe in Laragh, that a couple of people have mentioned? Is it The Hippie Cafe? or is it a place, where hipsters go?. Serious question.

ted1

I guess a trick might be to have a large car park and set yourself up as start and finish spot.
I've traveled the world alot kitesurfing and while we can kite on any beach we usually pick a place that has a good hub.

There's a few places towards the top of the long hill grim Kilmacanogoue to roundstone that could accomodate such set up

The tax man

Eamonnator wrote: »

What is the name of the cafe in Laragh, that a couple of people have mentioned? Is it The Hippie Cafe? or is it a place, where hipsters go?. Serious question.

Glendalough Green.

johnruns

Cycled through Laragh hundreds of times never really looked around where is the cafe?

Jerome77

Having tried something similar, yes it sounds romantic, let me tell you, there is nothing but headache after headache from the wicklow HSE. They are so anti business , steer clear..

C3PO

Sunsets On Tuesday wrote: »

Thanks for the feedback guys. What town would be ideal for most cyclists then? For me, although Enniskerry is early on in my cycles, I also come back through there aswell, that's why I thought it would be a good place.

I agree. I only live in Shankill but would definitely stop on the way home in Enniskerry if there was a place that served really good coffee and was biker friendly. While there are a number of cafes in Enniskerry there's only one that serves decent coffee!

Wishbone Ash

johnruns wrote: »

Cycled through Laragh hundreds of times never really looked around where is the cafe?

It's at the top of the green in that little triangular area where several roads come together. If you're coming into Laragh via Glenmacnass, it's just on your left as you enter the village. If coming from the Roundwood direction, it's on your right.

Sunsets On Tuesday

Jerome77 wrote: »

Having tried something similar, yes it sounds romantic, let me tell you, there is nothing but headache after headache from the wicklow HSE. They are so anti business , steer clear..

Hi Jerome, do you mind me asking what it is you set up, and how the Wicklow HSE caused you so much trouble?

Sunsets On Tuesday

C3PO wrote: »

While there are a number of cafes in Enniskerry there's only one that serves decent coffee!

Which café is that?

AlreadyHome

I always pop into Look Mum No Hands when I'm in London - much prefer it to the pricey/elitist Rapha vibe. Plenty of people in there who (on the surface) don't seem to be cyclists. Big crowds when they have a grand tour on the projector, great food, repair shop etc.

Wonder if perhaps what might work best would be to work in partnership with the likes of the hippie cafe displaying tour stages, bike rentals, on-the-go repairs, selling bike lights/spare tubes/tyres etc

nak

Sunsets On Tuesday wrote: »

Thanks for that example of the café/restaurant/shop in Edinburgh. That all sounds brilliant, but serves to emphasis just how important location is. Is that in the middle of the city, or in the suburbs like Enniskerry? Cheers for the reply.

It's in Stockbridge which is a pretty affluent area, maybe a mile from Princess Street. Mainly flats around there with artisan bakers, cafes, organic food shops etc. Mainly people in 30s and 40s, young families. Can't really compare it to Dublin as there are no areas in the city like that.

Eponymous

Stephen in CyclePlus in Greystones has a sign in the window saying bike rental available, but I don't actually know what he rents or if there's much demand.

If it weren't for the fact there's already a coffeeshop to people ratio of 1:1 there*, I'd recommend it as the ideal spot as there's a café culture already and it's a very popular stop for cyclists doing a roll along the coast in either direction, particularly the Happy Pear.

How about somewhere else like Ashford or even Roundwood, which seems to be a starting point for a lot of people who park and ride from there into Sally Gap...?





*slight exaggeration

Lumen

Coffee stops in Enniskerry are a bit poor IMO, despite the excellent location. There are three places with different permutations of bad food, bad coffee and insufficient seating.

How about a pop-up coffee van that is in a different location each weekend?

It could be a marketing thing to move the van around with a couple of days notice posted on Facebook. Then people could plan their spins around it.

The viewing point car park would be a good location for a van although possible risk of this.

Thud

These all say they do rental, might be worth giving them a shout:
http://www.2wheels.ie/section/Bike_Rental
http://www.belfieldbikeshop.com/rental-bikes.html
http://www.cycleways.com/store/content/342/Bicycle-Rentals/


Unless you're mobile you probably need a village location to get some walk in customers.
Enniskerry looks the best option, possibly Blessington,
Luggala/Ballinastoe is popular route to from the sally gap, gets a lot of tourist buses/cars stopping, has hiking routes and MTB trails nearby
http://labs.strava.com/heatmap/#11/-6.31851/53.15974/gray/bike

1bryan

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Without wishing to put a dampener on it, you'll need to ask yourself if it's viable especially if specifically aimed at cyclists. There won't be too many about on a wet Monday morning in January. I regularly stop at the hippy cafe in Laragh. Many consider it a busy spot for cyclists but they may only visit on a Saturday/Sunday. I'm often the only person there when I stop (bearing in mind that it is also a shop).

(BTW - Enniskerry is perfect for me - about 50k from home. )

I was chatting to them in Glendalough Green on saturday. Just chit-chat about how business was, etc. They said that they rely heavily on the summer to get them through the whole year. And even at that, it tends only to be the sunny days that brings the crowds.

They're good to cyclists because they know we can arrive in big numbers, and tend not to stay too long. As opposed to, say, walkers, who park their cars for hours on end, then might or might not get a coffee and a sandwich at the end of the day.

I do remember talking to them before just as one of our bad winters ended. The Roundwood - Laragh road had been iced over for a couple of weeks and there was only local traffic coming in. They were decimated that winter.

And, when AA Roadwatch post their 'advisory' about people avoiding Sally Gap (which they seem to do every winter, regardless of whether its actually passable or not), that impacts them too. I got onto AA Roadwatch about this, and asked them if they could be a bit more discerning about when they posted the advisory (I had been up there this particular day and there were no issues with the road at that time).

In relation to this thread though, a genuine question for people.

How often would you need to go to a bike shop when you are out cycling? And even when you do, how often would it be for something more than just a tube, or something else relatively cheap and minor?

I couldn't see a bike shop on a common route in Wicklow being a place where people would tend to go for anything much more than the above.

Someone else mentioned Look Mum, No Hands. Surely that is the model to follow, and the prime location would be in a built-up area like town, or on its outskirts. I think it needs to be in a populated area where you can enjoy passing trade (or the benefit of the bike-to-work scheme).

And on bike rental - the problem with that is you would surely need to base a service like that where people come to stay? So, while wicklow is popular for cyclists, there aren't really many areas that have a heavy concentration of hotels or other places tourists/vistors come to stay.

I think your idea is a nice one, and its something I'd defintely make use of at least once a week. I don't think a fiver from me once or twice a week is going to sustain a business though.

I'd suggest reading Emily Chappell's book, What Goes Round. She was a cycle courier and large parts of the book are based around a cafe/bike-shop that she and other cyclists used to hang around in. It might give a little insight to how things are, even in a busy area like London.

Best of luck either way

ted1

The parish hall or school hall could be an option, you only need it at weekends .

There are sevral play cafes that use rugby clubs in the mornings midweek and that works well.

http://www.pandaplaycafe.com/about-us


https://m.facebook.com/BuzzBeezPlayCafe/

fat bloke

I don't know about anyone else, but since Cyclesuperstore opened their cafe I have been in the shop a lot more often, and have purchased cycling stuff as well as coffee/food. So it's definitely a honey pot.

C3PO

Sunsets On Tuesday wrote: »

Which café is that?

Kennedys!

Also worth noting that a lot of mountain bikers also pass through Enniskerry on the way to Djouce, Ballinastoe etc.

Lumen

The thing to remember when considering setting up a business reliant on cyclists is that, by and large, they're tight moany bastards. :pac:

Sunsets On Tuesday

Lumen wrote: »

The thing to remember when considering setting up a business reliant on cyclists is that, by and large, they're tight moany bastards. :pac:

Yeah but they really do like their coffee!

Sunsets On Tuesday

AlreadyHome wrote: »

I always pop into Look Mum No Hands when I'm in London - much prefer it to the pricey/elitist Rapha vibe. Plenty of people in there who (on the surface) don't seem to be cyclists. Big crowds when they have a grand tour on the projector, great food, repair shop etc.

Wonder if perhaps what might work best would be to work in partnership with the likes of the hippie cafe displaying tour stages, bike rentals, on-the-go repairs, selling bike lights/spare tubes/tyres etc

Would a place like that work better in the city or in it's suburbs? I suppose just from a general point of view, the city centre would either be the start or the end of most people's cycles, so it may not be as popular.

Sunsets On Tuesday

Eponymous wrote: »

Stephen in CyclePlus in Greystones has a sign in the window saying bike rental available, but I don't actually know what he rents or if there's much demand.

If it weren't for the fact there's already a coffeeshop to people ratio of 1:1 there*, I'd recommend it as the ideal spot as there's a café culture already and it's a very popular stop for cyclists doing a roll along the coast in either direction, particularly the Happy Pear.

How about somewhere else like Ashford or even Roundwood, which seems to be a starting point for a lot of people who park and ride from there into Sally Gap...?





*slight exaggeration

I was also thinking Roundwood but seems to be a town people cycle through to get to Laragh more than anything else, from a cycling prospective anyway

ckeego

Sunsets On Tuesday wrote: »

Would a place like that work better in the city or in it's suburbs? I suppose just from a general point of view, the city centre would either be the start or the end of most people's cycles, so it may not be as popular.

LMNH is on what is akin to a cycling highway in and out of London where it is situated in Shoreditch..Very busy spot.

Some craic just sitting there at rush hour seeing the bling roll by.

Sunsets On Tuesday

How about a pop-up coffee van that is in a different location each weekend?

It could be a marketing thing to move the van around with a couple of days notice posted on Facebook. Then people could plan their spins around it.

That is sounding like the better idea to be honest. It would be a cool thing, cyclists could plan their spins on it and it could be set up in popular areas for cyclists.

C3PO

Sunsets On Tuesday wrote: »

How about a pop-up coffee van that is in a different location each weekend?

It could be a marketing thing to move the van around with a couple of days notice posted on Facebook. Then people could plan their spins around it.

That is sounding like the better idea to be honest. It would be a cool thing, cyclists could plan their spins on it and it could be set up in popular areas for cyclists.

Hmm ... I would look carefully at licensing from Wicklow CC before investing! I'm not sure how cooperative they would be! You would also be completely weather dependent- nobody is going to stop and drink coffee on the side of the road in the rain or on a very cold day!!

uck51js9zml2yt

I would have thought laragh would be a better spot given the amount of cyclists who pass through.

Eamonnator

Sunsets On Tuesday wrote: »

How about a pop-up coffee van that is in a different location each weekend?

It could be a marketing thing to move the van around with a couple of days notice posted on Facebook. Then people could plan their spins around it.

That is sounding like the better idea to be honest. It would be a cool thing, cyclists could plan their spins on it and it could be set up in popular areas for cyclists.

I remember a Scottish mountain biker, named Emma Guy, and her partner started a business, something like this. They converted a double decker bus into a coffee shop. They travelled around to races all over England and Scotland.
I don't know, if they're still in business.

Wishbone Ash

1bryan wrote: »

I was chatting to them in Glendalough Green on saturday. Just chit-chat about how business was, etc.....

......They're good to cyclists because they know we can arrive in big numbers, and tend not to stay too long......

That's debatable!

Service is fine when it's busy but call in there on a weekday morning in winter and they very much give the impression that you're a nuisance for darkening their door.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'good to cyclists' - small overpriced cake portions served on a paper plate. Maybe it the availability of a track pump.

CardinalJ

Larragh and Enniskerry are a great location in theory but to buy property would cost a relative fortune in either id say, compared to the turn over youd get on weekends sunny summer evenings.

Someone mentioned a mobile option and I think thats the best one. Plenty of MTB clubs have week night spins in Dublin then at weekends you'd be able to pitch up in any of the busy routes.

Speak to some of the mobile coffee guys who work week day food markets in town about the kind of regulations they have to deal with.

Chuchote

A pop-up in different places to test out the market is a great idea.

What about Glenasmole, in the hope that the funding will be returned for the Mountains-to-the-Sea cycleway from Glenasmole through to Ringsend/Sandymount along the Dodder? It's in Co Dublin, so you don't have to deal with Wicklow CoCo and their preciousness.

1bryan

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

That's debatable!

Service is fine when it's busy but call in there on a weekday morning in winter and they very much give the impression that you're a nuisance for darkening their door.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'good to cyclists' - small overpriced cake portions served on a paper plate. Maybe it the availability of a track pump.

well for one, they don't have a sign up that says 'No Cyclists', unlike some one-time popular-with-cyclists, coffee stop in Ballyboughal.

I mean they're friendly, polite, courteous. They have a track pump available, don't mind you using the bathroom if needs be, they sell some cycling provisions (energy bars, etc), they have installed bike racks, and generally don't mind us taking up pretty much every outdoor table and chair, come summertime.

And your experience of going there of a midweek morning is not what I've experienced going there of a midweek morning.

Generally cyclists seem to converge here. That has to be for a reason. Theres a place up the road towards Glendalough (on the left), where bikers seem to congregate, again, probably for a reason.