Christmas Expense

LegacyUser

My wife and I live around 9 hours away from Ireland. We had a baby this year - the first grandchild / niece / nephew for my parents and siblings, so we have decided to go to my parents' home in Ireland for three weeks in December. This will be my first Christmas at home since 2011 and my wife's first Christmas in Ireland.

I get along well with my parents, well with my brother, and decently with my sisters. In general we are all looking forward to the visit, but there is one sticking point that emerged last night: Christmas gifts.

My wife and I did our budget at the start of the year and allocated 400 euro for Christmas gifts to cover her friends and family as well as mine. We are frugal people and are just not into consumerism. But my sister, who is the polar opposite, proposed yesterday that we would do a secret santa and the target to spend is 200 euro. My wife would have to spend 200 euro and I would have to spend 200 euro. So, 400 euro out of our pockets.My sister also suggested that everyone should specify exactly what they want so that their secret santa knows what to get them.

Now, my wife gave up work last month to raise our child and we are flying to Ireland as well. My wife and I responded that while we have no preference for a gift that we would each like to receive (as we genuinely don't want anything in particular) and that our secret santas could just give us a small surprise. My sister responded this is not fair; we need to specify something. So my wife said fair enough; we will think about it and get back to them.

I know it's not a big deal but I hate being expected to pony up 400 bucks for Christmas after having a baby, becoming a one-income house, and flying three people half way around the word for Christmas. It's not fair on my wife's side of the family either as we will not duplicate the expenditure for her side.

I want to add two things -

1. We can easily afford it and everyone knows that. We just think it's a wasteful use of our money. Doesn't the thought matter more than the price tag?

2. Although presented as a suggestion, this is a fait accomplis. A suggestion of say, 100 euro per person instead would have been immediately shot down. I know.

Looking for suggestions on how to handle. I'm inclined to just buy gifts and bargain hunt so that they appear to have a value of 200 euro and then next year, pre-empt the whole thing and firmly say we propose 100 and give some excuses in advance.

fluffybiscuits

@OP

I would not place much emphasis on the cost of the gift but more on the thought of it. You could explain to your sister that you cannot afford the secret santa and that you need to buy presents for other people instead aside from them. You could put together a hamper of some wine from Aldi (decent bottle for a fiver) some bits and pieces from Poundshop, Boots, Tiger (great shop) and maybe get a few bits online on ebay. I dont envy you and I know what cost is like, I spread it out over the year. Wishing you the best

Stheno

fluffybiscuits wrote: »

@OP

I would not place much emphasis on the cost of the gift but more on the thought of it. You could explain to your sister that you cannot afford the secret santa and that you need to buy presents for other people instead aside from them. You could put together a hamper of some wine from Aldi (decent bottle for a fiver) some bits and pieces from Poundshop, Boots, Tiger (great shop) and maybe get a few bits online on ebay. I dont envy you and I know what cost is like, I spread it out over the year. Wishing you the best

IP says he can easily afford it though?

fluffybiscuits

Stheno wrote: »

IP says he can easily afford it though?

He has a baby now so he may wish to save for college, medical expenses, travel, clothes and they are now a one income family.

seamus

It sounds like you allowed yourself to be browbeaten into it tbh.

When €200 was suggested, you should have turned around and said "no, that's insane". Even if it was just one of you taking part, €200 is insane. Fine if you were all single siblings in your twenties. When you're married with kids, that nonsense goes away.

Just say that with all of the expense you already have - one income, new baby, flight home, X other presents to buy - that you don't have €400 to spend on a secret santa.

This is your problem by the way; your wife can back you up, but because this is your family, you have to take the lead on it.

Just put your foot down, say you can't stretch to more than €100, and that's that. They don't know that you can easily afford it unless you've been sharing your financial information with them all.

Just put your foot down, and don't allow yourself to be guilted or browbeaten into going higher than your limit.

Neyite

If it was my sister, I'd tell her to do one. In fact we did exactly that when one of mine tried something similar some years ago. She's so transparent. It's clear that she wants a specific item for Christmas and is engineering the Secret Santa to get exactly that item. You are all failing in your sibling duty if you are not absolutely ripping the piss out of her for her blatant grabbiness . If you have reasonable siblings, then why not suggest a family vote on both the amount and the fact that people have to state what they want.

A Secret Santa should be affordable to all involved. IMO Christmas gift splurging should be aimed at the kids, and family and friends should be content with enjoying each other's company and maybe a token gift. Any secret santa families I know set a limit of about 50 -75. And the choice of gift is up to the giver, not the recipient.

njs030

Agree with the above post, get in contact and say after discussing it we already have the expense of coming home we aren't spending €400 on presents. We are happy to spend a maximum of €100 each on secret Santa but no more.
If anyone tries to say you can afford it politely state you don't want to go into your financial situation.

njs030

I've never before heard of someone stating the amount and what they want either. Is that normal in your family?

Same as neyite id have quite a lot to say if my sister tried that

Big Bag of Chips

Jaysus!! We must be fierce scabby in our family. We set a limit of €50 and a few years ago just gave it up altogether!!

€200 is absolutely totally bonkers. I wouldn't even bother telling her it's nuts. Just tell her you and your wife won't take part! It's not compulsary. My husband's family still do it, but we stay out of it now. We buy his mam and dad a token gift and that's it. We've enough other things to be siending our money on.

And I 100% agree with Neyite, your sister obviously has something very specific in mind. The "real Santy" can bring it to her!!!

woodchuck

Could you suggest that you and your wife are put down as a couple rather than individuals? I.e. As a couple you buy one person a present (halving your expenses!) and one person buys you both a joint present (something you can both enjoy, e.g. something for the house).

I think it's all madness btw, but this could be a good compromise that shouldn't ruffle any feathers. Everybody else still gets their 200euro present, but you only have to spend 200euro instead of 400euro!!

ArtyC

We do ours for €100, thinking of paring it back to €50 this year as its only for fun really and to stop the insane spending over Christmas. There is a lot of us. I would be saying tops€50/100 otherwise to leave me out. Plus it's meant to be secret, not asking for 200 euro items 😳😳 seems selfish and I wouldn't hesitate to call her on that €200 budget

SarahMollie

Actually putting it at €200 and the dictating gifts really takes the fun out of it. Putting it at a lower amount creates a challenge and means people have to be inventive.

They way your sister has drawn it up, everyone may as well go out and spend €200 on themselves an save all the hassle.

HalloweenJack

Personally, I'd opt out. Just say you're not comfortable spending that money and if that's going to be forced on you, then reject it.

If people get their knickers in a knot over the price of a secret santa gift (and I'm guessing the sister will be one), they really need to reevaluate a few things, esp. given your current circumstances: you just had a baby, gone from two- to one-income family and you're flying halfway around the world to spend time with your family. If you have a problem spending that kind of a money, anyone should be able to understand why. If they get in a huff about it, then clearly the gifts are more important than your company and I'd be reevaluating my relationship with that person.

Broken Hearted Road

Honestly for your parents, you wouldn't need to come home at Christmas bearing gifts. For them, getting to see you, meeting the partner and meeting and holding their first grandchild will be worth gold in itself.

As for your sister and secret Santa and the price tag she's put on it, phone her up and opt out from the secret Santa. If she's not happy, if there's other family and siblings, maybe get in touch with them and see what they think about it. Very few people can afford the spending of 200 euro on a gift. I find it bizarre how this spectra Santa and 200 euro thing is going ahead in your family. If it was my family, for the most part, we'd be thinking, - 'hang on, they are flying home and they have a new baby, they mightn't be able to afford this'.

K_P

Opt out. Regardless of whether you can afford it or not, tell your family that you're spending a fortune travelling so far and as you're now a one income family that money is more of a concern than usual. This might be a white lie, but so what.

Tell them you won't be buying a €200 gift and that you don't expect to receive one. I wouldn't get involved in contacting other siblings and getting their thoughts on it as you're potentially stirring up a fight if you do that. Just opt out and don't get involved. Once you're there, they'll all be so delighted to see you and your wife and to meet your baby for the first time, that any annoyed feelings or bruised egos should be quickly forgotten about.

Do this quickly though. Don't let it drag on, have someone assigned to you and you to someone else and then drop out. Do it quickly to cause minimum fuss.

mrsdewinter

Honestly, just say, 'We've talked it over & with the expense of the new baby, and travelling, and everything, we're gonna duck out, thanks!'
I bet a couple of your siblings will opt out after you take the lead, and if your sister starts whining, she'll be the one left looking like a grasping wagon.
It's an insane proposal to put to anybody.

pookie82

The whole point of gift giving/presents (often called "surprises"!!) is that

a) you don't know what you're getting
b) you generally don't know how much it cost
c) it's the thought that counts

She has already sh@t over all of the above by setting both the amount AND the item itself. As someone else said, she's spotted something she wants and has engineered this whole palavar to have someone buy it for her.

What I would do is call her and say "hey! Sounds great. But given you know what you want and how much it is, we'll leave you to get it for yourself, and we'll spend our €200 on ourselves. Bye".

Leave her sit with that and see how she likes it! She can't argue that that defeats the purpose of a present ... her list of "rules" already do that!

Xterminator

OP if its not too late, just opt out.

i wouldnt give a big explaination - just no thanks.

X

freshpopcorn

OP, your probably bringing home one of the greatest gift of all to your family. There's really something special about bringing home the first grandchild.
I'd just tell your sister your not interested in doing her Christmas gift idea.
We just give each other what we can afford. Some years it's bigger than others. I'd suggest if you want to give people something just give them something small.

orthsquel

With an expectation to spend €400 between the two of you for Secret Santa - each providing a gift - I think that is insane to be asking, regardless of anyone's financial and personal/family circumstances.

I think you need to be blunt and say no to it completely and you don't need to explain yourself either. I don't think going along with it or whatever is right - you'll only set expectations for more the same next year - and other siblings may not be able to afford the high price tag or may be put under pressure or may feel forced to spend the full €200 face value thinking that others are doing the same not realising they could make is less expensive for themselves. I would seriously doubt your sister is going to stump up €200 for a gift for any of you, I would bet she would be the first one to bail on the whole thing if she couldn't afford it herself or couldn't get a gift for less than that and make it look more expensive.

If you and your wife want to give presents, do it your own way at whatever cost you want.

Aimeee

You are obviously the first in your family to have children so your siblings are still at the stage where they have plenty disposable income (or just not in the position you are in now of having a bigger picture to think of). Your sister doesn't yet Know about needing to reign things in.
If it was me I'd just explain that you've already forked out for flights, new baby costs etc. You may also be limited luggage wise what you can carry home/nothing extra in the already full of baby stuff luggage etc. Either make it a 200 from both of you & same in return or just opt out this year. Cross next years bridge next Christmas. Things change in families all the time. Keep it simple but at the same time you don't want any bad feelings Christmases down the line. Things may change. When the sister has her own family she may have different ideas. Good luck and congrats on the new baby & enjoy the first visit home with baby.

Spanish Eyes

Firstly I would be raging that someone has "organised" my Christmas gift giving, and the cost!

Best present they will all get is to see you. I am absolutely sure of that.

But don't let it get to a family crisis situation. Nothing is worth that. If you think you can't back down without a major family rift just do it. Especially since you say you can afford it. If you couldn't it would be a different story.

GingerLily

You don't have to participate, tell that you won't be doing the family KK and leave it at that! 200e limit and you don't even get the joy of surprising someone? Rubbish

intheclouds

I just wouldnt do it.

Simply say you dont wish to be part of Secret Santa and thats that. 200 euro from each member of a couple for secret santa is absolutely crazy!!

We do it with a price of 30 quid a head!! And even at that my husband complains that its stupid and we should give it up!

Sorry I just realised that this is for adults only - seriously - 200 euro gifts for each adult!!! Are you people the Rockefellers!!

Come on - who does this!!!

Just opt yourself and your wife out of it and dont brook any arguments on that.

looksee

I agree with all the others, but how many siblings are there, how does this one get to make the rules?

The Raptor

Broken Hearted Road wrote: »

Honestly for your parents, you wouldn't need to come home at Christmas bearing gifts. For them, getting to see you, meeting the partner and meeting and holding their first grandchild will be worth gold in itself.

As for your sister and secret Santa and the price tag she's put on it, phone her up and opt out from the secret Santa. If she's not happy, if there's other family and siblings, maybe get in touch with them and see what they think about it. Very few people can afford the spending of 200 euro on a gift. I find it bizarre how this spectra Santa and 200 euro thing is going ahead in your family. If it was my family, for the most part, we'd be thinking, - 'hang on, they are flying home and they have a new baby, they mightn't be able to afford this'.

The OP said he can afford it. They are flying home, they wouldn't do it if they didn't have the money.

It's the expectation and a stupid price tag on it.

One Christmas, we weren't doing gifts at home. Then it all changed, we had to get certain family members gifts. I was expected to chip in. This family member hasn't acknowledged us at Christmas time in years but he fixed something in the house, so that apparently warranted a gift.

I told them to take a running jump, there wasn't anything stopping them from getting a gift. It didn't go down well. Spend your budget OP, don't go over it. It's bloody ridiculous to demand what someone spends.

Wesser

The essence of secret Santa is that you only have to buy a present for the person that you ' pull out if the hat'

You do not have to buy a present for everyone in the secret Santa, just 2 people!!!!!

2 x 200 is 400......... That was your budget in the first place...... Perfect!
Now only need to buy 2 presents each worth 200e instead of twenty presents each worth 20e...... Saving you and your family time and hassle.

I don't see what the problem is.

intheclouds

Wesser wrote: »

The essence of secret Santa is that you only have to buy a present for the person that you ' pull out if the hat'

You do not have to buy a present for everyone in the secret Santa, just 2 people!!!!!

2 x 200 is 400......... That was your budget in the first place...... Perfect!
Now only need to buy 2 presents each worth 200e instead of twenty presents each worth 20e...... Saving you and your family time and hassle.

I don't see what the problem is.

The OP and his wife budgeted 400 euro to cover Xmas gifts for both his family and her family. So 200 euro to buy gifts for his family, double his budget.

The problem is not just the budget though IMO, it's the expectation and the bullying nature of implementing it.

The Raptor

Wesser wrote: »

The essence of secret Santa is that you only have to buy a present for the person that you ' pull out if the hat'

You do not have to buy a present for everyone in the secret Santa, just 2 people!!!!!

2 x 200 is 400......... That was your budget in the first place...... Perfect!
Now only need to buy 2 presents each worth 200e instead of twenty presents each worth 20e...... Saving you and your family time and hassle.

I don't see what the problem is.

Guess you didn't read the part where they also have to buy the wife's side of the family presents out of their budget.

Wesser

Oh right. Oh well I did my best.

LegacyUser

Thanks for all the replies.

I am a lot older than the rest of my siblings. I'm 7 years older than the sister in question, 11 years older than my brother and 14 years older than my youngest sister.

I was part of a different generation growing up and was away from age 17 in college and working, so I don't have a close relationship with them, at least not as close as I'd like.

The sister in question is a very generous person, and a homebird. She buys gifts and treats everyone all year 'round. It's her nature. She is also the kind who maxes out her credit card and wouldn't have any savings. That's her business, but she has created an atmosphere of expectation and set a standard at home that this is how families should be. My younger brother and sister have benefited from her generosity and now they see it as the norm. My brother for example is only 23 and has taken out a 12k student loan to do a masters, yet he has no issue with the 200 euro suggestion. My advice, were he to ask me, would be to pursue his studies and minimize his costs, not splurge 200 euro of his loan on Christmas.

I think my sister has actually also spoiled my parents to the extent that they are used to it now. I can see from this thread that my perspective is the most usual in Ireland - that 200 is far too much - but in my family I seem to be in a minority of one due to my sister's constant treats.

They also know I earn a lot of money due to where I live, the company I work for and the job that I do. There is an attitude of "you've more than all of us put together" and I am seen as stingy because I am fiscally prudent. This despite the fact that I gave my brother a nice bit of money for his 21st some years back and will give the youngest sister a nice bit as well for her 21st also in December. I have also paid for my parents plane tickets twice when they came to visit me here in recent years. Those would be pretty much the only examples of any half-way lavish gift-giving I've ever done, which pales into insignificance next to the munificence of my sister. I have never been one for fancy Christmas gifts or birthday gifts, apart from what's mentioned above.

It is a little frustrating to see my two youngest siblings adopt the habits of the profligate sister but I'm not the type to give advice and stir up a row in the family. I just want to get out of this silly obligation to spend 400 bucks for Christmas.

Wesser

I understand where you are coming from.
My sisters who earn more than me have taken over the last few years to buying really expensive holidays for my parents.
They look up a tour and propose it to us and split it between us it's a couple of hundred euro .... Once I objected and raised concerns and I got emotionally blackmailed..... Aren't you grateful for everything they have done for us? I was so hurt +++++ and since then never raise my head and just pay when asked. Families and money can be very complicated.

intheclouds

Where you are coming from is understandable but it takes someone to stand up and say "No - its too much" to stop this kind of thing.

Its possible to be totally pleasant about this and simply tell your sister that while she is entitled to spend whatever she likes throughout the year and at xmas on her family, that you are also entitled to the same and as such you will not be participating in the secret santa because it is beyond your budget to do so.

What you earn is irrelevant imo.

Aimeee

I have to ask and I hope I'm not being out of order: if you can afford it why don't you just do it for this year? First year you've been home in 4 years. You have a beautiful new baby. It's a big event for everyone. You strike me as a no nonsense kind of person, why the dilemma with this?

Coming from a different angle;your sister is the eldest sibling at home at the moment. She has taken on the role of looking after younger siblings and your parents. Granted it's not how you would do it (and you think she's spoiled your parents) but she's doing it. You are away, you are possibly out of synch with family life at home these days. As your parents age please don't underestimate the role she is carving out. If you stay abroad you will be glad she's there.
Look I don't agree with the amount or the present order. But in a way she's preventing the buying of never to be used gifts which I think is no harm. (I have a houseful of wasteful buying from generous cousins!)
You all have a different attitude to money, they can do what they want. Don't judge them for it.
The day may come when you need their support (not financial), nobody knows what's down the line.
Bigger picture- As your family grows aunts & uncles can be very important people. Moreso if abroad as sometimes the main contacts can be through birthdays/communions/various events in a child's life that are all ahead of you. These may seem like a waste of money to you (and I totally understand this) but there is an emotional investment too that needs to come from both sides.

Is it possible that of your xmas budget you take 200 for your family and your wife takes 200 for her family. Take your wife out of secret santa or else you are in it as a couple. One person gives to both of you and you give to one person. There's 200 left for the other side.
Such a tricky business Christmas especially when you all coming from different angles.
Personally if I could afford it I would just do it however I couldn't so would negotiate down and keep the peace.
(I think I've probably contradicted my previous post but your most recent update reminds me of a someone I know and it rang a few bells for me).

Turtle_

Actually I can see where she's getting her numbers from. 4 kids, 2 parents and a spouse, spend at least 35 on each and you're over 200. The problem is there's two of you expected to participate.

If I was you I'd just say it's too much, that you know it's coming from a kind and generous place but you're already paying for flights to come home, paying a mortgage, saving for your child's future. Suggest 100 a head, and people can suggest something if they want but no obligation to. You can get a very good present for 100, otherwise ask that you and your wife be treated as a unit.

Maybe I'm way off the mark here, but you seem to be treating your sister as younger than she is. From what I can gather, she's about 27-28? My age. Definitely old enough to be aware that people have other things to spend their money on. Old enough to know that having a baby changes things. And old enough to be told to grow up if she throws a strop because she's not getting her own way with gift budgets.

I'm sorry but I don't think you can have it both ways.

You've described yourselves as "frugal" over and over again, yet you don't want to be seen as "stingey", I'm not sure the distinction exists in a lot of people.

You can easily afford the budget set, but you just think it's a "waste" of your money.

You basically don't like the way your family spends their money, which is fine and, as you say, their business. But, personally, if I could I'd "spoil" the cr@p out of my parents and younger siblings.

Either go with the flow or step out. At the very least you could tell them that your wife doesn't need to be part of the "family" secret santa and stick to your €200 each per family.

The Frugal Couple

The Frugal Couple wrote: »

I can see from this thread that my perspective is the most usual in Ireland - that 200 is far too much

Also, I'm not sure this is true.

A "secret santa" for a family of 6 is @ €30 per person. So €200 for one gift (rather than 6 gifts by €30) isn't unrealistic and takes pressure off people.

Just tell them to leave your wife out of it.

intheclouds

Deleted User wrote: »

Also, I'm not sure this is true.

A "secret santa" for a family of 6 is @ €30 per person. So €200 for one gift (rather than 6 gifts by €30) isn't unrealistic and takes pressure off people.

Just tell them to leave your wife out of it.

The reason its usually done is to cut down on cost so only one gift is paid for and not 6.

As you described above it increases the pressure as 200 > (30*6 = 180).

The idea is that rather than spread out 200 over small gifts, you take a reasonable sum (30-50 imo) and just buy one gift - THAT takes the pressure off.

intheclouds

intheclouds wrote: »

The reason its usually done is to cut down on cost so only one gift is paid for and not 6.

As you described above it increases the pressure as 200 > (30*6 = 180).

Sorry, you're right, I should have said €33.3333333 per person in a family of 6.

intheclouds wrote: »

The idea is that rather than spread out 200 over small gifts, you take a reasonable sum (30-50 imo) and just buy one gift - THAT takes the pressure off.

That's YOUR idea of taking the pressure off.

In our family, the pressure was in hunting down gifts for several grown adults who are capable of buying whatever they need for themselves.

So instead of spreading the cost over several gifts for several people, it is centralised in one expensive gift for one person. Same cost, less hassle and expanded the range of gifts because the budget was larger.

Cost doesn't seem to be the issue for the OP's family.

Big Bag of Chips

I honestly couldn't come up with something that I'd want or need that would cost €200, and I'd be just coming up with something for the sake of it! I'd be equally happy to just come up with something that would cost €30-€50!

What are you looking for here, OP? You have a few options. Go along with it, tell her to lower the value or tell her you will only be spending a certain amount regardless of the target total, or don't get involved at all.

All the rest of the discussion and debate is just extra distraction. You have a few options. Pick one!! All of us agreeing that it's ridiculous, or too much, or over the top or whatever else is pointless and not actually going to have any affect in your situation!

BrokenWingz

My partner's family does this every year although the cost is half what OP's sister is demanding. We as a couple buy for one person and one person buys for my partner though they often choose something we would both enjoy.

I would imagine your parents will be so happy to have your family there for the holidays they wouldn't care if there were any gifts at all!

coolcat63

Given the logistics of travelling such a long way with a baby and all the 'stuff' you will need to bring with you why not use that as a perfectly reasonable excuse to opt out of the SS completely? Let the rest of the family swap gifts and pick up some fun presents (or - much better IMHO - make donations to charities either in Ireland or your home country) when you are here?

jockeyboard

If there is one thing i can stand its "i want x y z from my secret santa" wtf!! Whats the secret? So in a group of people i am getting a known item, only i dont know who from. Ridiculous.

Big Bag of Chips

I'd guess they also do know who from! In our families 1 person used to do the draw and then ring around to tell everyone who they got. So everybody knew who they got and who got them. Then started the "what do you want?" questions. If the OP is coming from, I guess, America, then he won't be there to physically pull his name out of the hat so someone will do it for him.

It got to a stage with my husband's family that whenever him and his brother got each other, they'd decided to just keep their 30 quid each!!

mailforkev

If my sister informed me that between myself and my wife we were spending 400 quid on two Xmas presents for other adults I'd laugh her out of it.

The OP has put in the hard graft to get to where he is and is under no obligation to spoil his adult siblings.

When married with kids your primary family is now your spouse and children. This is where to you must prioritise your spending, particularly as you're now single income.

Also, if knocking it down to one 200 gift, make sure to ask to be treated as a couple, rather than to ask that your wife is left out. United front all round.

intheclouds

Deleted User wrote: »

That's YOUR idea of taking the pressure off.

I beg your pardon, as you referenced the numbers I assumed you were talking about financial pressure - silly me.

I personally would find the hassle factor much higher trying to pick an expensive gift for a grown adult who is capable of buying whatever they need for themselves.

Added to that the pressure of getting them something they dont like is only worse if the gift is 200 euro rather than 30ish quid. Id really hate to think Id spent 200 euro on something for it to fester in a drawer. What a terrible waste.

I find the entire idea of adults giving each other expensive gifts for xmas bizarre anyway. Its not about what the gift cost, its about the thought isnt it?

jimd2

Aimeee wrote: »

I have to ask and I hope I'm not being out of order: if you can afford it why don't you just do it for this year? First year you've been home in 4 years. You have a beautiful new baby. It's a big event for everyone. You strike me as a no nonsense kind of person, why the dilemma with this?

Coming from a different angle;your sister is the eldest sibling at home at the moment. She has taken on the role of looking after younger siblings and your parents. Granted it's not how you would do it (and you think she's spoiled your parents) but she's doing it. You are away, you are possibly out of synch with family life at home these days. As your parents age please don't underestimate the role she is carving out. If you stay abroad you will be glad she's there.

Very good post here.

I am on both sides of the fence on this one. On the one hand I agree that the €200 per person is simply way too much and people deciding what present they want is bonkers, not what secret santa is about and more like a wedding list.

On the other hand the OP has indicated that he is very flush with money & fair play on that, it wasnt easily earned I am sure. But the point made above that the sister in question has probably been taking the heavy load with parents and siblings and in a way taking the pressure off the OP while he is away earning the big bucks is a good one. Remember, if she was also away in recent years then things would be more difficult at home and a bit more stressful for the OP away. When you are one of those close to home it is great to be frequently with the folks etc but it is also a relief for those that are away to know that the issues are being handled in their absence. There is no monetary value on this and I am sure that your sister would never regard it as such.

My advice would be
1. Agree the €200 but just from yourself & not your wife.
2. Refuse to nominate a particular gift and suggest that others do likewise.

Flippyfloppy

Do we have reason to think the younger siblings and parents need to be cared for by the oldest sister ?? Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see the op mention that any of them needed looking after or that the sister was baring the brunt. Most families I know look after themselves individually unless they're in school or very old!

intheclouds

intheclouds wrote: »

I personally would find the hassle factor much higher trying to pick an expensive gift for a grown adult who is capable of buying whatever they need for themselves.

Exactly my point, thanks for highlighting it.

The OP doesn't agree with his family's plan, up to him to either say so or suck it up.

NelRom

It can be quite difficult to stop the gifting and entitlement culture and you might be best off tackling it this year, start as you mean to go on so to speak. Also as your Siblings start to settle down and have families this could get bigger and bigger.
Maybe give her a ring and tell her you'd like to set a smaller limit of 50 per family/person, including children, on the secret santa and see how she takes it, you aren't being unreasonable.

kunst nugget

Honestly, if one of my siblings suggested €200 each as the price for secret santa gifts I'd tell them to gtfo. That is an absolutely ridiculous amount of money to spend on them. The spirit of Christmas is well warped in that household imo.