KCC roads insanity

L1011

This may turn in to a megathread (if the content keeps coming and the mods allow)

In the same year as commissioning a traffic survey of Maynooth when the college was off and the Irish Open was on - distorting weekday down and weekend massively up - KCC's Roads Department have now delivered us these lovely cycle lanes:

http://www.kildarenow.com/news/these-new-cycle-lanes-in-clane-are-extremely-odd-looking-and-are-attracting-plenty-of-negative-attention/116288

Note the solid white line, meaning you can't pass a cyclist either.

Who is in charge here and why are we still paying them?

Lastblackdog

L1011 wrote: »

Who is in charge here and why are we still paying them?

Probably some idiot who cycles a lot maybe in Lycra

We need a candidate to run who is pro-car. In this day and age it is impossible to go anywhere and get anything done without one but our politicians seem hell bent on making life hell if you drive one.

L1011

Lastblackdog wrote: »

Probably some idiot who cycles a lot maybe in Lycra

We need a candidate to run who is pro-car. In this day and age it is impossible to go anywhere and get anything done without one but our politicians seem hell bent on making life hell if you drive one.

I'm pretty certain no cyclist would have got involved with that cockup either.

Lastblackdog

L1011 wrote: »

I'm pretty certain no cyclist would have got involved with that cockup either.

I'm not so sure. The way they ride three abreast on country roads suggests a total disregard for other road users. I imagine that they text each other asking "fancy coming out for a spin so that we can screw with some motorists?".

Walter2016

I don't think its insanity, if anything its quite clever.

I would assume its an unlit road and it therefore gives a constant reminder to cars that there are likely to be cyclists on that route and that they have right of way within the lane area, but as the lane is broken line other road users may drive on it but give priority to the cyclists. At the same time, cyclists, where provided with a cycle lane, should not cycle out of that lane.

Twould be nice if DunL Rathdown put them in the stepaside/kilternan area.

You may cross a solid white line if you deem it safe to do so for a slow moving vehicle (there is a definition of such) , obstructions, pedestrians, cyclists and under direction of a garda.

lucernarian

Lastblackdog wrote: »

Probably some idiot who cycles a lot maybe in Lycra

We need a candidate to run who is pro-car. In this day and age it is impossible to go anywhere and get anything done without one but our politicians seem hell bent on making life hell if you drive one.

It sounds little better than a pub rant. There are plenty of people, like me for instance who cycle and drive, aren't some sort of Lycra mutant because of it.

I was going to post about the pointless exercise of KCC, but of course it doesn't take long to kick off an equally stupid anti-cycling agenda.

Does it really take a car to go to the nearest shop? Looking at the Londis by straffan road and the nearest place to lock a bike is the petrol station on the other side, obviously many of the good people of Maynooth think so.

I've been doing fine with car sharing and arranging short term insurance, and renting even once. Never mind it being a necessity, I'm a lot wealthier for not owning one...

WishUWereHere

lucernarian wrote: »

It sounds little better than a pub rant. There are plenty of people, like me for instance who cycle and drive, aren't some sort of Lycra mutant because of it.

I was going to post about the pointless exercise of KCC, but of course it doesn't take long to kick off an equally stupid anti-cycling agenda.

Does it really take a car to go to the nearest shop? Looking at the Londis by straffan road and the nearest place to lock a bike is the petrol station on the other side, obviously many of the good people of Maynooth think so.

I've been doing fine with car sharing and arranging short term insurance, and renting even once. Never mind it being a necessity, I'm a lot wealthier for not owning one...

Hang on a minute, where has the original poster said anything hinting at 'stupid anti-cycling'?

You really are jumping to conclusions here.

Badly Drunk Boy

WishUWereHere wrote: »

Hang on a minute, where has the original poster said anything hinting at 'stupid anti-cycling'?

You really are jumping to conclusions here.

I think that be referring to Lastblackdog's comment, rather than the OP.

I imagine that they text each other asking "fancy coming out for a spin so that we can screw with some motorists?".

Lastblackdog

Badly Drunk Boy wrote: »

I think that be referring to Lastblackdog's comment, rather than the OP.

Correct. I did add in the bit about the sort of idiots who cycle around here. Particularly from Maynooth to Dunboyne.

A couple of weeks ago I was fifth in line behind a cyclist, then a low-loader caring some sort of digger so unable to accelerate much, then a three other cars as well as a long string of cars and vans behind me.

At no time did the cyclist pull in and stop so as to allow the long tailback to clear. No, he was happy in his little power trip.

I was trying to suggest that it is people like him who design road markings that the OP linked to in the first post.

Maybe it is time cyclist had to pay road tax.

ghostdancer

Walter2016 wrote: »

I don't think its insanity, if anything its quite clever.

I would assume its an unlit road and it therefore gives a constant reminder to cars that there are likely to be cyclists on that route and that they have right of way within the lane area, but as the lane is broken line other road users may drive on it but give priority to the cyclists. At the same time, cyclists, where provided with a cycle lane, should not cycle out of that lane.

Twould be nice if DunL Rathdown put them in the stepaside/kilternan area.

You may cross a solid white line if you deem it safe to do so for a slow moving vehicle (there is a definition of such) , obstructions, pedestrians, cyclists and under direction of a garda.

agreed, it's quite clever and saves reducing the footpath area by having a dedicated cycle-lane that will be empty 99% of the time, while clearly marking out the boundaries on the road for cyclists and serves as a visual reminder to motorists.

Chuchote

Highly unlikely to have been designed by anyone with cycling experience, from the look of it. Unlikely to be used by people cycling because it's awful.

Speaking as a human who cycles, I'm sick of all the sneering at 'cyclists'. After all, it's 'drivers' who do all the killing; 127 people so far this year.

Pinch Flat

The subsequent comments don't address the OPs concerns. Cyclists paying road tax (sic) and "holding up" traffic have nothing to do with the road markings in the OP and are tangential to the discussion. Maybe paying insurance and being licenced would address these road markings as well?

My own view as a motorist and cyclist is that the shoe horning of cycling infrastructure around existing infrastructure doesn't work - it's tokenism at best. I cannot see why the central line isnt dashed - don't know the road, so perhaps there's an hazard like a bridge or corner ahead that would mean it would be a solid line regardless of whether or not there was a cycling lane there or not.

The logic of the solid line is perhaps to discourage overtaking on the narrow road, with the 1.5m distance considered good practice in over taking cyclists not possible.

I drive and cycle around Kildare a good bit - yes, it's popular with cyclists and there's a big club in dunboyne, so meeting them and other clubs is inevitable. Rather than letting it ruin my day, I sit back wait and overtake when it's safe to do so. This mutual respect is usually acknowledged and reciprocated.

Chuchote

Most cyclists are insured under house insurance, by the way. They don't pay a carbon tax ("road tax") because they don't give off carbon pollution. If they were taxed for their wear and tear of the roads, €1 per cyclist per 1,000 years should be enough to cover it.

This kind of 'cycle path' is utterly useless. Proper greenways are seldom built in Ireland, and just last week the government withdrew funding for excellent plans - a cycling and walking greenway that was to stretch from the mountains (Glenasmole) to the sea (Sandymount), other ones to be extended along the canals. These weren't going to cost a lot; the money that was to cover them has instead been funnelled into the black hole that is the Luas building project.

http://www.thejournal.ie/cycling-greenways-2964771-Sep2016/

The J Stands for Jay

Lastblackdog wrote: »

Maybe it is time cyclist had to pay road tax.

We should probably get the motorists paying road tax first.

Chuchote

What they call 'mobilité douce' in Europe is what we need in Ireland - separated and protected cycle tracks so loads of people, especially children, can cycle safely.

The single-person car is rapidly becoming unaffordable as well as unsustainable; it's an end-of-days scenario for the driver driving alone in a car.

We could have this, at far less cost than pouring money into more carbon pollution:

BuffyBot

This isn't a pro/anti-cycling thread, so we'll bring things back to the thread's original purpose

Orion

L1011 wrote: »

I'm pretty certain no cyclist would have got involved with that cockup either.

You're absolutely right there.

I haven't seen these myself - where in Clane are they? I might spin up that direction on the bike to have a look in real life. But they do look ridiculous from the photos. If the road is that narrow with a solid central line then it is pointless putting in that cycle lane. All it causes is aggravation for cyclists and motorists alike. The obvious solution is to remove the grass verge and widen the road to put in a cycle lane.

Tbh this is typical of KCC's haphazard approach to providing cycling infrastructure. The new ones on the Straffan Road in Maynooth were supposed to be on-road and they stuck them on the path with absolutely no markings whatsoever. So I stick to the road where it's safer.

Orion

Lastblackdog wrote: »

Maybe it is time cyclist had to pay road tax.

There's no such thing as road tax.

As regards the rest of your comments cyclists are not the problem. The lack of education for motorists and exceptionally bad infrastructure is the problem. Cycle lanes like this in Clane do nothing to help either. Pinch Flat described it as exactly what it is - tokenism to allow them to get EU funding. It's not actually cycling provision.

L1011

The entire current roadworks fall under this:

1: Started after the schools and colleges went back
2: Removed all light controlled access to Platform 2 of the railway station (temporarily) - this is the disabled access to this platform and a critical crowd relief exit.
3: Despite it being meant to be a cohesive "upgrade", the cycle path works done so far are completely different to those done last year. They may - or may not - be slightly more acceptable to cyclists as the cycle path is segregated from the pedestrian section

Due to the roadworks narrowing the roadway to 2 lanes you can see how insane the proposal to remove turning bays all along was and what trouble the removed ones will cause.

Orion

re the cycle lane I did point that out to the foreman. These were the plans he got. As it is the new section won't be used by cyclists. While it does ramp down to the road at the bus terminus it doesn't actually join the road lane and you then have to filter outinto motor traffic. It is safer to just stay on the road for that 100-150 metres from the train station. I believe the island will be gone and the cycle lane will continue down to main street but we'll see when that's done. It is the right idea but implemented poorly so far.

The other side of the road will be different. With the path on the far side of the wall and a cycle track raised from the road surface it has potential to be a good one. But I'm not holding my breath that this will be implemented properly either based on prior form from KCC.

As for the time - absolutely ridiculous. Then when they moved to silkenvale initially there was no pedestrian access to the estate. Schoolkids and commuters having to dodge across the road. When they did put it in pedestrians were directed past Greenfield when 90% at least of the pedestrian traffic goes left - to the 3 largest schools or the train station. A few angry emails and a chat with the foreman who I happened to bump into sorted that out thankfully.

When did they remove light control from platform 2? The existing crossing wasn't switched off that I noticed and there were no other lights. I didn't see that road closed off either but may have missed that.

L1011

Orion wrote: »

When did they remove light control from platform 2? The existing crossing wasn't switched off that I noticed and there were no other lights. I didn't see that road closed off either but may have missed that.

Middle of last week. You can't access the existing crossing without walking (or wheeling) on the road.

They are actually opening the proper wheelchair ramp - 15 years after its installation - though.

L1011

A footpath back to safety has been put in now.

Orion

L1011 wrote: »

Middle of last week. You can't access the existing crossing without walking (or wheeling) on the road.

They are actually opening the proper wheelchair ramp - 15 years after its installation - though.

There was a path between the barriers for that period.

L1011

Orion wrote: »

There was a path between the barriers for that period.

The path wasn't in place until this week - it wasn't there on Monday; I didn't take the train on Tuesday.

Orion

The path was definitely there last week. I used it. It may not have been there on day 1 as they didn't know it was disabled access but was definitely there on Wednesday last week. If it wasn't there Monday that may have been students over the weekend. A number of barriers and signs have been going missing.

ixus

I thought the right hand lane filter removal had been stopped. Best I can recall from the noise it raised on facebook and Liffey Champion when announced. People will get some land.

Also, eagerly awaiting the Traffic Management Plan proposals.

Orion

The right turn lanes are being retained - for Silkenvale/Parklands and Old Greenfield at least - as far as I recall. I have a feeling that the right turn lane into the train station is being taken away though which is nonsense.

Orion

L1011 wrote: »

The path wasn't in place until this week - it wasn't there on Monday; I didn't take the train on Tuesday.

Regardless of whether is was there or not last week it's gone again since Thursday morning. No wheelchair or pedestrian access to platform 2. I bumped into the roads engineer in the pub on Friday evening and mentioned it to him - he said he'll look into it. There must be wheelchair access to the platform and right now there isn't.

L1011

Orion wrote: »

Regardless of whether is was there or not last week it's gone again since Thursday morning. No wheelchair or pedestrian access to platform 2. I bumped into the roads engineer in the pub on Friday evening and mentioned it to him - he said he'll look into it. There must be wheelchair access to the platform and right now there isn't.

That's because the new footpath is now open, so the on-road barriered off section has been removed.

L1011

Station area is done at that side. Now towards Maxol there's an extensive section closed off with no advance warning of when the path ends..

Orion

L1011 wrote: »

Station area is done at that side. Now towards Maxol there's an extensive section closed off with no advance warning of when the path ends..

Got caught by that with my daughter this evening. No advance notice as we passed Greenfield. Then it was head back to the lights at Silkenvale or dodge across the road. There really is no joined up thinking at all.

Raminahobbin

Well they've broken through the wall on the opposite side to the Rail park entrance on the Straffan road, to the road running parallel to Greenfield. Fingers crossed it helps the traffic!

Also started water works on the Dublin road, ripping up the path AGAIN for the 2nd or 3rd time in front of haven hire etc

Orion

I noticed they panels near the train station for the new pedestrian lights. They are on the footpath not the cycle lane this time. Looks like they'll be treating the cycle lane as a road lane. About bloody time. This is a good thing and hopefully shows a new understanding of cycling from KCC.

L1011

Raminahobbin wrote: »

Well they've broken through the wall on the opposite side to the Rail park entrance on the Straffan road, to the road running parallel to Greenfield. Fingers crossed it helps the traffic!

There's only about 8 "houses" (as in built and sites for further) on that road. It won't help traffic; hopefully it won't hurt it much either.

Raminahobbin

L1011 wrote: »

There's only about 8 "houses" (as in built and sites for further) on that road. It won't help traffic; hopefully it won't hurt it much either.

Is it not a bypass road to the road by the shops over at Newtown? Sorry, I don't go that side of Maynooth very much, no idea if it comes out the other side or not. I'm assuming it does.

L1011

Raminahobbin wrote: »

Is it not a bypass road to the road by the shops over at Newtown? Sorry, I don't go that side of Maynooth very much, no idea if it comes out the other side or not. I'm assuming it does.

No, it only goes about 200m. Its currently accessed down a laneway down the side of another house. The Google Maps aerial photography is quite recent

There's no space for a road through - the access laneways for the older houses in Old Greenfield abut the rear walls of some houses in Kingsbry.

Raminahobbin

Ah. I see. Well that's a pity!!

Doubt it'll add much to the traffic if there's only a few houses on it, much like the Kinder Crescent cul de sac, but then that has a turning lane.

L1011

Huge section with no streetlights due to the works now

Orion

L1011 wrote: »

Huge section with no streetlights due to the works now

Including the entrance to the train station where the pedestrian crossing is.

L1011

Raminahobbin wrote: »

Ah. I see. Well that's a pity!!

Doubt it'll add much to the traffic if there's only a few houses on it, much like the Kinder Crescent cul de sac, but then that has a turning lane.

Thought I'd quoted this at the time - that is The Crescent, the creche got the name from it rather than the other way around!

I would imagine the traffic out of there will be negligible - indeed there's a chance the houses already there will continue to exit via their laneways to Old Greenfield by habit a lot of the time.

Redsoxfan

Is it fair to say that when the works in Maynooth are finished, the flow of traffic through the town will be slowed further at peak times?

L1011

Redsoxfan wrote: »

Is it fair to say that when the works in Maynooth are finished, the flow of traffic through the town will be slowed further at peak times?

Probably. It would have been much, much worse with the original plan though.

Right turn lanes were retained after campaigning - the original plan was to remove them and we've seen from the works the hell that'd cause. Ridiculous that some councillors moaned about the volume of emails they got about it - should remember which ones to ensure they don't get that volume of votes to worry about.

Redsoxfan

The issue I see is that the overall carriageway will be narrower. People tend to be be lazy about using the correct alignment in right turning lanes (e.g. at Esso, nobody ever seems to position their car so that drivers heading towards Maynooth can get past them). So while in theory it's welcome that right tuning lanes will be retained, I wonder how it will work in practice.

L1011

There isn't actually a right turning lane at Esso so its a case of trying your best...

Orion

Redsoxfan wrote: »

Is it fair to say that when the works in Maynooth are finished, the flow of traffic through the town will be slowed further at peak times?

I spoke to one of the engineers about that. The road narrowing is a deliberate thing to slow down traffic.

L1011

Orion wrote: »

I spoke to one of the engineers about that. The road narrowing is a deliberate thing to slow down traffic.

Because, of course, it goes so incredibly fast currently...

Redsoxfan

Orion wrote:

I spoke to one of the engineers about that. The road narrowing is a deliberate thing to slow down traffic.

L1011 wrote:

Because, of course, it goes so incredibly fast currently...

Indeed. Whatever about narrowing the road beyond Maxol or even the Moyglare Road, I can't say I have ever noticed an issue at the stretch they are working on.

ixus

Think it's because it is NTA who are doing/funding it that results in this section being done. Smaller roads not on their list.

Hercule

I generally drive but also cycle infrequently, I feel they should be prioritising drivers as the primary road users, I get the whole "more people should cycle" and "cyclists should have suitable lanes to travel on" but i'd say they represent less then 1% of the total road user in Maynoth, no matter how good cycling facilities are I don't anticipate that changing within the next few years - the completion of a ring road is/was a far greater priority then building cycle paths - we're very lucky the weather has been so mild this winter and traffic isn't as bad as it could be - but anyone who's gotten caught in the 1 hour+ straffan road crunch at peak times will have little interest in helping the 5 cyclists that pass by the 50+ tailback of cars.

At certain points in the road the lane isn't wide enough for an average size car - I don't drive a particularly wide vehicle and need to straddle the line to be able to comfortably get through , I refuse to believe that's intentional, I have to believe that there is an intention to re-do the road markings once the major works are done.

Mind you these are the same morons that decided to commence works when the schools + college were back.

L1011

The lines have not been repainted yet.

Orion

L1011 wrote: »

Because, of course, it goes so incredibly fast currently...

Not saying I agree with them. But that's the reasoning.