Kim Jong Un testing nukes again, 5.3mag detected in DPNK

Laika123

Kim Jong Un seems to have tested another nuke in North Korea a week after the Ulchi Freedom Guardian war games 2016 ended, he had threatened to nuke South Korea if the war games went ahead.

The USGS reported a 5.3M quake as an explosion.

BoJack Horseman

It's nearing end game time wrt Korea.

The biggest deal today was their claim to have sucessfully miniaturised a warhead to fit on one of their missiles.
They also said they have finalised standardised production of this capability.
Neither of these claims can be verified of course, but it is prudent to take them at their word.

Separately, the successful submarine missile launch in August was a huge step forward.

Really as far as I can see the the last part of the puzzle is guidance.
AFAIK, North Korean missiles don't have proper guidance systems so are crudely aimed.
However, once they get this down then both Japan & South Korea are in a rather sticky situation because both have been dragging their feet on their defences.

Jimbob1977

They're possibly looking for more cash and concessions to stave off famine.

The last time they got uppity with nuclear weapons, the West gave them loads of economic aid in exchange for cessation of testing.

The West can defeat North Korea militarily, but the human cost could be immense. It's hard to fight 30 million radicalised zombies.

Although if the key generals and politicians were eliminated quickly, the populace would be running around like headless chickens. No orders = panic.

SEPT 23 1989

I wonder how many countries military guidance systems are locked on his head at any one time during the day?

conorhal

Jimbob1977 wrote: »

They're possibly looking for more cash and concessions to stave off famine.

The last time they got uppity with nuclear weapons, the West gave them loads of economic aid in exchange for cessation of testing.

The West can defeat North Korea militarily, but the human cost could be immense. It's hard to fight 30 million radicalised zombies.

Although if the key generals and politicians were eliminated quickly, the populace would be running around like headless chickens. No orders = panic.

Generally I'd be a non interventionist, but you have to wonder what is going to happen when this regime (as all regimes sooner or later do) collapses. The fanatisism of the regime is scary, 'if we're going down, we'll take everybody with us in a nuclear firestorm' scary. Perhaps an ounce of prevention would be worth a pound of cure at a later date.

BrokenArrows

Jimbob1977 wrote: »

They're possibly looking for more cash and concessions to stave off famine.

The last time they got uppity with nuclear weapons, the West gave them loads of economic aid in exchange for cessation of testing.

The West can defeat North Korea militarily, but the human cost could be immense. It's hard to fight 30 million radicalised zombies.

Although if the key generals and politicians were eliminated quickly, the populace would be running around like headless chickens. No orders = panic.

North Korea will never change until its people revolt. There is absolutely no point in invading a country where the people think their leader is a god. (Whether or not this is true is open to debate, maybe they are just scared of their leaders with good reason)

But if they ever launch a nuke at another country they will simply be wiped off the face of the earth. There wont be an invasion, there will simply be a response strike which will hit all the key targets which have already been identified.

Chips Lovell

"Sorry, it just went off in my hand..."

Laika123

Jep Gambardella wrote: »

"Sorry, it just went off in my hand..."

Yea, you'd be missing a finger or two.

keeponhurling

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

It's nearing end game time wrt Korea.

The biggest deal today was their claim to have sucessfully miniaturised a warhead to fit on one of their missiles.
They also said they have finalised standardised production of this capability.
Neither of these claims can be verified of course, but it is prudent to take them at their word.

Indeed, and even if they haven't achieved it now they'll achieve it next year, or at some point in the future.

I wonder would sudden strikes on all their military facilities be an option

Musketeer4

Would a series of sudden surgical decapitation strikes at NK not be a viable option? Destroy the command structure and take out key military sites. The big problem with this I guess is the vast array of dumb artillery piece trained on Seoul from the hillsides on the north of the DMZ. The above strikes would have to be carried out in concert with an absolute pulverising of these hills to prevent a barrage on Seoul.

keeponhurling

Interesting to see how Trump would react, if president

BrokenArrows

keeponhurling wrote: »

Indeed, and even if they haven't achieved it now they'll achieve it next year, or at some point in the future.

I wonder would sudden strikes on all their military facilities be an option

It would be easy and im sure governments already have a plan but would need agreement from the 5 permanent members of the UN security council. China, France, Russian Federation, United Kingdom, and United States.

Currently NK's only ally is China and they will not agree. However i do think at some point China will say enough is enough.
China is no longer a closed off nation. They are an economic superpower and dont want to get involved in some stupid war that NK starts.

Best case scenario is that that test launch a weapon which goes off course and lands on a building with all the NK leaders.

Tabnabs

Absolutely nothing can be done about NK until the Chinese are fully on board with the plans. The West will not intervene in what is, essentially, China's backyard without their agreement and that's not going to happen. The Chinese (rightly) fear the 38th Parallel simply being shifted north to their border and then to have major military access to their back door by the USA.

The best that can be hoped for is a strategic missile defence/shield for Japan. South Korea is just too close to save...

BoJack Horseman

keeponhurling wrote: »

Interesting to see how Trump would react, if president

He said he would try to talk to Pyongyang....... what a bastard!
Trying anything is better than the failing status quo

BoJack Horseman

keeponhurling wrote: »

I wonder would sudden strikes on all their military facilities be an option

Probably not IMO.

NK is a kind of 'all or nothing' situation.
Bombing some installations just leaves others working fine, so you have to commit....plus it gives Lil' Kim all the validation he could want.

GBX

keeponhurling wrote: »

Interesting to see how Trump would react, if president

Depends how close he was to the detonation.

Atlantic Dawn

He's better off giving them a good oul test rather than firing them off some day and not knowing what they will do.

bear1

Id say china is getting fairly sick of having a basket case neighbour and they have warned on more than one occasion so I also think there will be a point where china puts their foot down.
Aren't china their only source of income?
Russia also I imagine is not too pleased having a neighbour which fires off nukes and missiles whenever they please. Vladivostok is a city which is quote close to the border so you have to wonder what Putin might do if things get too far out of hand.
Wonder also will the us place nukes in south Korea?
Hopefully not cause that will probably be game on.

Atlantic Dawn

bear1 wrote: »

Aren't china their only source of income?

They do have gangs of workers overseas which are essentially slaves, there's some working in Poland and Malta at the moment, this gives the regime foreign currency.

As featured on this Channel 4 show...
http://www.channel4.com/info/press/news/brexit-who-ll-do-your-job-now-channel-4-dispatches

Laika123

bear1 wrote: »

Wonder also will the us place nukes in south Korea?
.

I think China and Russia would nuke North Korea themselves rather than let the USA place nukes in South Korea.

BoJack Horseman

bear1 wrote: »

Wonder also will the us place nukes in south Korea?

It was discussed, but the SK government declined having any bombs stored there back in 2013.

A Little Pony

A matter of time before North Korea is invaded or bombed and the regime destroyed.

They are an absolute joke and if I could I would nuke them tomorrow.

bear1

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

They do have gangs of workers overseas which are essentially slaves, there's some working in Poland and Malta at the moment, this gives the regime foreign currency.

As featured on this Channel 4 show...
http://www.channel4.com/info/press/news/brexit-who-ll-do-your-job-now-channel-4-dispatches

I watched a vice news report on the north Korean workers in Gdansk.
Funny how the eu isn't investigating it as it was revealed they aren't allowed to keep their salaries.

bear1

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

It was discussed, but the SK government declined having any bombs stored there back in 2013.

Could it look likely that it might change?

BoJack Horseman

I'm not sure.
It might..... but I would doubt it's likelihood.
I don't see it as a deterrent that God-King Kim would be scared of.

Plus, it indiscriminate nature makes it unpopular.
Most Koreans see their the NK people as prisoners & brethren.
I doubt there is much appeal for something that could destroy entire cities.

Laika123

A Little Pony wrote: »

A matter of time before North Korea is invaded or bombed and the regime destroyed.

They are an absolute joke and if I could I would nuke them tomorrow.

So you'd nuke a whole suffering population because of a few nutcases running the country.

Having said that if North Korea had oil, there would have been regime change long ago, but their more profitable for the US as they are, so no fear of them being changed yet.

Iwasfrozen

Probably time to consider a US/Japanese/South Korean strike on Best Korea's nuclear facilities.

Iwasfrozen

Tabnabs wrote: »

Absolutely nothing can be done about NK until the Chinese are fully on board with the plans. The West will not intervene in what is, essentially, China's backyard without their agreement and that's not going to happen. The Chinese (rightly) fear the 38th Parallel simply being shifted north to their border and then to have major military access to their back door by the USA.

The best that can be hoped for is a strategic missile defence/shield for Japan. South Korea is just too close to save...

I'm sure that's a comfort for the Koreans... To hell with the Chinese if they are not willing to act to secure the safety of their own region.

b_mac2

China won't ever agree to any military action being taken against NK. The influx of refugees coming across their borders would cripple south Chinese infrastructures.

ArtSmart

bear1 wrote: »

Id say china is getting fairly sick of having a basket case neighbour and they have warned on more than one occasion so I also think there will be a point where china puts their foot down.
Aren't china their only source of income?
Russia also I imagine is not too pleased having a neighbour which fires off nukes and missiles whenever they please. Vladivostok is a city which is quote close to the border so you have to wonder what Putin might do if things get too far out of hand.
Wonder also will the us place nukes in south Korea?
Hopefully not cause that will probably be game on.

Kim ONLY exists because China allows him to exist.

He's their perfect Boogie Man. Anything Kim does, has been approved by China first, without any doubt.

China is pretty unhappy of late, re EU rulings etc, etc.

So Kim's testings is their 'covert' response.

Risky High Stakes stuff.

As for Russia, hard to call.

Timberrrrrrrr

A Little Pony wrote: »

A matter of time before North Korea is invaded or bombed and the regime destroyed.

They are an absolute joke and if I could I would nuke them tomorrow.

Nuke who? 25 million innocent people?

A Little Pony

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

A matter of time before North Korea is invaded or bombed and the regime destroyed.

They are an absolute joke and if I could I would nuke them tomorrow.

Nuke who? 25 million innocent people?

A basket case and a lost cause. Unless you advocate an invasion which I'd be fine with if an Allied effort is put together.

Tabnabs

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

I'm sure that's a comfort for the Koreans... To hell with the Chinese if they are not willing to act to secure the safety of their own region.

The South Koreans are under no illusion what war with NK means. Have a look at the map at how close Seoul, the world's 16th largest city, is to the border (hint, 35 miles). Well within artillery range and there are, reputably, an arsenal of weaponry pointed that exact way in the event of a military conflict. Seoul will be flattened before the first day is done.

"To hell with the Chinese"? You need to read up on your history and see how that line of thinking worked out during the last Korean War.

RobertKK

BrokenArrows wrote: »

North Korea will never change until its people revolt. There is absolutely no point in invading a country where the people think their leader is a god. (Whether or not this is true is open to debate, maybe they are just scared of their leaders with good reason)

But if they ever launch a nuke at another country they will simply be wiped off the face of the earth. There wont be an invasion, there will simply be a response strike which will hit all the key targets which have already been identified.

You are right, they are scared to the point of being terrified.

Human rights abuses in North Korea according to the UN are the at a level "strikingly similar" to the Nazis.
If I was North Korean and went against the government, I would be put in a concentration camp, my family would be put in a concentration and the extended family too.
There have been reports the dead and those executed in the concentrations have been used to feed the dogs.

Timberrrrrrrr

A Little Pony wrote: »

A basket case and a lost cause. Unless you advocate an invasion which I'd be fine with if an Allied effort is put together.

So because these people know no different you think they should be nuked into oblivion? You are honestly advocating genocide of a nations people just because they have been oppressed by their leaders?

Honestly, you're worse than the NK leadership if that's your attitude

Musketeer4

90% of them have been thoroughly brainwashed by the KWP machine and even if the country were liberated you would still have to fight the people as they will be obsessed with fanatical juche ideology.
They're like another more organised veriosn of ISIS. There would need to be mass killing to secure the country.

Iwasfrozen

Tabnabs wrote: »

The South Koreans are under no illusion what war with NK means. Have a look at the map at how close Seoul, the world's 16th largest city, is to the border (hint, 35 miles). Well within artillery range and there are, reputably, an arsenal of weaponry pointed that exact way in the event of a military conflict. Seoul will be flattened before the first day is done.

"To hell with the Chinese"? You need to read up on your history and see how that line of thinking worked out during the last Korean War.

Better to be hit with conventional bombs than nuclear bombs in the future.

And yes, to hell with China. They've been dragging their feet over dealing with North Korea for years. Because of Chinese lack of leadership Korea and Japan will soon be living under a real threat of nuclear destruction. Part of me thinks many in the Chinese leadership would like.to see Japan nuked...

A Little Pony

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

A basket case and a lost cause. Unless you advocate an invasion which I'd be fine with if an Allied effort is put together.

So because these people know no different you think they should be nuked into oblivion? You are honestly advocating genocide of a nations people just because they have been oppressed by their leaders?

Honestly, you're worse than the NK leadership if that's your attitude

Yes I am worse than the NK leadership. :rolleyes:

hairyslug

Action will only be taken once it's to late and China have no option but to back a move, it just comes down to where NK aims that missile

Timberrrrrrrr

Musketeer4 wrote: »

90% of them have been thoroughly brainwashed by the KWP machine and even if the country were liberated you would still have to fight the people as they will be obsessed with fanatical juche ideology.
They're like another more organised veriosn of ISIS. There would need to be mass killing to secure the country.

You have evidence to back this up right?

Do you not think MAYBE they would be grateful when they start getting things like food/clothing etc?

Just another typical AH "nuke em all" poster who has no clue. I suppose you will be signing up to go fight as well? :rolleyes:

Timberrrrrrrr

A Little Pony wrote: »

Yes I am worse than the NK leadership. :rolleyes:

Well you're the one calling for the deaths of many millions 's of innocent men women and childrent

ArtSmart

Musketeer4 wrote: »

90% of them have been thoroughly brainwashed by the KWP machine and even if the country were liberated you would still have to fight the people as they will be obsessed with fanatical juche ideology.
They're like another more organised veriosn of ISIS. There would need to be mass killing to secure the country.

All China has to do issue different instructions to Kim.

They won't til they get concessions elsewhere.

But Japan has elected the most Nationalist (ie war friendly) leaning govt since the war. And the rest of the Sth Pacific aint too China friendly at the mo.

Russia's happy to sit this one out.

Bit of a perfect storm brewing...


ETA (China and Japan have a bit of an aul history, so do does ALL Korea and Japan. And it aint forgotten. By EITHER side.
And Indeed Russia and Japan, but that's old stuff. Russia would be happy to see/ all three both nations weakened, and to see the west drained/ distracted.

Yup, tis worrying times. They (China through Nth Korea) might try a quick scuffle, thinking it'll end soon, but it may well end up, well...messy.

Iwasfrozen

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

You have evidence to back this up right?

Do you not think MAYBE they would be grateful when they start getting things like food/clothing etc?

Just another typical AH "nuke em all" poster who has no clue. I suppose you will be signing up to go fight as well? :rolleyes:

The West wouldn't exactly need to go on a mad recruitment drive.

Timberrrrrrrr

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

The West wouldn't exactly need to go on a mad recruitment drive.

But surely anyone here who is so outraged about this and wants to see NK invaded would be first in line to go fight right? I mean the bloodlust for the death of millions of innocent people must be strong so surely the ones who want this nuking/invasion would want to go see it 1st hand and be a part of it right?

A Little Pony

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

Yes I am worse than the NK leadership. :rolleyes:

Well you're the one calling for the deaths of many millions 's of innocent men women and childrent

It worked with Japan. Do you believe in killing them and letting god sort it out?

Timberrrrrrrr

A Little Pony wrote: »

It worked with Japan. Do you believe in killing them and letting god sort it out?

:rolleyes:

Aaaaaand Godwin in

3

2

1

Musketeer4

Yeah but Hitler and the Nazis...................

(You're welcome)

Iwasfrozen

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

But surely anyone here who is so outraged about this and wants to see NK invaded would be first in line to go fight right? I mean the bloodlust for the death of millions of innocent people must be strong so surely the ones who want this nuking/invasion would want to go see it 1st hand and be a part of it right?

Who is calling for the death of millions? I believe we should strike their research facilities and storage infrastructure before the pyscopaths launch, it would be up to North Korea to decide whether they want to give up at that point or continue provoking.

Certainly we should be doing far more to encourage dissent in North Korea, the existence of that state alone is a threat.

Timberrrrrrrr

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Who is calling for the death of millions? I believe we should strike their research facilities and storage infrastructure before the pyscopaths launch, it would be up to North Korea to decide whether they want to give up at that point or continue provoking.

Certainly we should be doing far more to encourage dissent in North Korea, the existence of that state alone is a threat.

Here

A Little Pony wrote: »

A matter of time before North Korea is invaded or bombed and the regime destroyed.

They are an absolute joke and if I could I would nuke them tomorrow.

Musketeer4

I fully support an air or missile based offensive against the north. Of course there will be killing but it can be kept to an acceptable level. For example target packages should include the artillery batteries targetting Seoul. This would require a vast aerial bombardment of the mountains north of the DMZ as there are 12000 gun emplacements capable of firing 500,000 rounds an hour between them.
Concurrently they should be hitting all nuclear facilities and all sites that are related to the military, - bases, barracks and sites that produce or launche missiles. Killing the goverment should also be an objective.

Iwasfrozen

Musketeer4 wrote: »

I fully support an air or missile based offensive against the north. Of course there will be killing but it can be kept to an acceptable level. For example target packages should include the artillery batteries targetting Seoul. This would require a vast aerial bombardment of the mountains north of the DMZ as there are 12000 gun emplacements capable of firing 500,000 rounds an hour between them.
Concurrently they should be hitting all nuclear facilities and all sites that are related to the military, - bases, barracks and sites that produce or launche missiles. Killing the goverment should also be an objective.

Yes this would be the best option, take them out before the psychopaths get working nukes.

We also need to stop sending them food. I understand the humanitarian aspect but we're only helping to keep the regime in place.