Cyclist killed in Dublin

Danbo!

Just back from lunch and saw Gardai had closed half of guild street, and this on the news

http://www.98fm.com/Cyclist-Killed-in-City-Crash

Careful out there folks

Alanstrainor

I take that route/turn daily. Shocking.

average_runner

Independent saying just injured, lets hope they are right

Danbo!

average_runner wrote: »

Independent saying just injured, lets hope they are right

I know this isn't a confirmation and I do hope I'm wrong, but there's a tent up.

average_runner

Danbo! wrote: »

I know this isn't a confirmation and I do hope I'm wrong, but there's a tent up.

Not a good sign.

Dinging

Irish Times says it was a fatal collision with a female cyclist.

AGC

Unfortunately it has been confirmed

Leroy42

Seriously, not just cyclists but there seems to be one death after another on the roads the last few weeks.

What is going on? (perhaps it is just me paying more attention but it seems that there has been a number of them recently)

Moflojo

Very sad to hear that, it's one of my regular routes and my OH uses it daily too. Shocking.

califano

Dangerous junction that because drivers have a tiny window to get from Guild st to Seville place upper and from Seville Place upper to Seville place lower. You sense the fraying tempers at that junction as a cyclist.

numbnutz

Leroy42 wrote: »

Seriously, not just cyclists but there seems to be one death after another on the roads the last few weeks.

What is going on? (perhaps it is just me paying more attention but it seems that there has been a number of them recently)

I feel so sorry for this cyclist and the bad news her loved ones are to receive.

I used to ride a motorbike and am now in a car and the only observation I can make is the level of aggression to pretty much everyone around them usually ties in with, and I know it sounds weird, when the economy picks up and the busier it gets the more aggression and dickish behaviour occurs. Phone usage whilst driving is beyond ridiculous.

mr spuckler

absolutely shocking, RIP young lady

TallGlass

That junction I use daily, tent still up and coroner's ambulance there still. Junction is fairly dangorus. Towards town I always make sure I am in front of HGVs or keep well back. Also a nightmare, if cars are turning right from town and it gets backed up they turn and as they cant see you it gets a bit hairy. Opposite way, there seems to be car parking, two lanes and its very narrow going straight.

RIP to the girl.

whiskeyman

Collision with a truck... but seems odd the truck has already been moved off? (noted from the pic in the 98fm link)
Likely it didn't stop til much further?

Seems to be a huge spike in fatal cycling / motor incidences over the past couple of weeks

Tragic.
The driver of the truck was brought to Beaumont as a precaution.

Can only imagine what that poor girls family are going through.

People need to slow down and give cyclists due care as they can only scratch your car but you can kill them.:eek:

Moflojo

whiskeyman wrote: »

Seems to be a huge spike in fatal cycling / motor incidences over the past couple of weeks

Massive increase in HGVs on the road due to improving economy and increased levels of construction. Combine that with the usual increase in back-to-school traffic and the shortening daylight hours and you can see why such a spike might occur. Anecdotally I think this is the deadliest time of year for road deaths amongst vulnerable users - children, pedestrians, cyclists.

jive

Moflojo wrote: »

Massive increase in HGVs on the road due to improving economy and increased levels of construction. Combine that with the usual increase in back-to-school traffic and the shortening daylight hours and you can see why such a spike might occur. Anecdotally I think this is the deadliest time of year for road deaths amongst vulnerable users - children, pedestrians, cyclists.

Combined with crap cycling infrastructure. A few days after ~€10m was pulled for cycling greenway projects in Dublin with the funds being diverted to a >€1b Luas project.

RIP.

average_runner

RIP, prayers with the family and driver

Anatom

I passed another incident this morning at the Four Courts on the quays. There was a girl in an ambulance but thankfully it didn't look like it was too serious. It is definitely dangerous out there..!

Ray Palmer

I had both a car and a bus pull into me this morning. The did see me they just didn't care. Seriously considering giving up cycling at this point.

Firedance

Anatom wrote: »

I passed another incident this morning at the Four Courts on the quays. There was a girl in an ambulance but thankfully it didn't look like it was too serious. It is definitely dangerous out there..!

I saw that this morning too as I cycled past I run through that junction most days at lunchtime, as someone else said, absolutely bonkers road layout for cyclists. RIP

I've only been cycling into/out of work since earlier in the summer but the traffic, especially numbers of buses & HGV's in the city the last 10 days is far heavier. Today was the first time I've felt a bit unsafe Quays.

beauf

RIP the poor woman and the other people effected in the last few weeks.

Moflojo wrote: »

Massive increase in HGVs on the road due to improving economy and increased levels of construction. Combine that with the usual increase in back-to-school traffic and the shortening daylight hours and you can see why such a spike might occur. Anecdotally I think this is the deadliest time of year for road deaths amongst vulnerable users - children, pedestrians, cyclists.

http://www.thejournal.ie/drive-safe-july-2855079-Jul2016/

The accidents that have occurred in very different situations, as such its not the time to be making sweeping generalisations. Or jumping to conclusions.

Fian

RIP.

It really does feel like there is a spike in these sort of accidents recently, i guess it is inevitable that there will be random variations in frequency.

terrydel

God love the poor girl. Shocking to hear.
RIP.

I commute by motorbike, its big, very loud and obvious looking and even then you feel quite exposed. I love cycling but only really once I get outside the city and traffic lights and traffic. I don't think I'd ever commute doing it, it would not be for me at all.

denismc

Lately I am noticing a lot more cyclists/ joggers out on poorly lit roads with no hard shoulders and it unnerves me a lot. I passed one guy recently jogging in the middle of the road even though there was a footpath.

And this morning I passed a guy jogging in the dark on a twisty road with no hard shoulder. Even with visi-vests and armbands some of these people can be hard to see.
With increased traffic and darker evenings/mornings I can see why there could be increased accidents.

mjsc1970

terrydel wrote: »

God love the poor girl. Shocking to hear.
RIP.

I commute by motorbike, its big, very loud and obvious looking and even then you feel quite exposed. I love cycling but only really once I get outside the city and traffic lights and traffic. I don't think I'd ever commute doing it, it would not be for me at all.

I'm in the same boat as you. I also cycle recreationally a fair bit and have commuted the odd time but found the city cycling chaotic in places. Though I feel exposed on motorbike I still feel a lot safer than on my bicycle.

RIP poor girl.

seamus

Moflojo wrote: »

Massive increase in HGVs on the road due to improving economy and increased levels of construction. Combine that with the usual increase in back-to-school traffic and the shortening daylight hours and you can see why such a spike might occur. Anecdotally I think this is the deadliest time of year for road deaths amongst vulnerable users - children, pedestrians, cyclists.

Early November is the most dangerous time on the road for vulnerable users.

A combination of the changed clocks, darker commutes, poorer weather and people using the car more often than previously means that accidents are more likely.

Somewhat counter to that trend, the last few weeks and months have been very dry and bright in Dublin generally, which is also associated with an increase in road deaths - more vulnerable users on the roads, but also drivers tending to be less attentive because of the perceived safety of good visibility.

"Meh" weather is safer than good or bad weather - overcast, cool (but not cold) and drizzly. There are less vulnerable road users, and the conditions require drivers to pay more attention.

Counterintuitively, really, really ****ty driving weather is the safest. December 2010 was statistically the safest month in history on Irish roads because there was 30 days of lying snow in many parts of the country.

Danbo!

seamus wrote: »

Somewhat counter to that trend, the last few weeks and months have been very dry and bright in Dublin generally, which is also associated with an increase in road deaths - more vulnerable users on the roads, but also drivers tending to be less attentive because of the perceived safety of good visibility.

Today's accident really floored me today, not rush hour, great weather, right by my office where I cycle every day, etc - but the above does makes sense.\

The next couple of days, and weeks, will have more people on their bikes with bus strikes too.

JosDel

Dreadful scene, RIP to the young lady..it's such a dangerous stretch since the SB bridge was opened...

cantalach

RIP. Very sad.

I might be wrong here and certainly don't have any stats that would bear this out, but I have a sense that a disproportionately high number of fatalities like this one are female. If this is true, is there something to be learned from this discrepancy?

In a tragic context such as this, I hope it goes without saying that I'm not trolling or attempting to make some sort of sexist point. I'm genuinely wondering if differences in 'attitude' between men and women might be a contributing factor and if this needs to form part of safe cycling campaigns.

Generalising is always risky, but I notice that female cyclists commuting around my own city (Cork) tend to adopt a less aggressive road position than their male counterparts: seldom taking ownership of a lane, swinging wider when negotiating small roundabouts or right turns, stopping further back at the lights, etc.

This is a terrible tragedy and some might feel that the above is inappropriate on this day. I respect that view but think any discussion that might go any way towards reducing the risk of this happening again is justifiable.

mr spuckler

there was a post last week on that very point, with a link to studies showing it to be the case. will see if i can dig it out.

here you go.

Orinoco wrote: »

http://www.rudi.net/node/16395

from here

Macy0161

denismc wrote: »

Lately I am noticing a lot more cyclists/ joggers out on poorly lit roads with no hard shoulders and it unnerves me a lot. I passed one guy recently jogging in the middle of the road even though there was a footpath.

And this morning I passed a guy jogging in the dark on a twisty road with no hard shoulder. Even with visi-vests and armbands some of these people can be hard to see.
With increased traffic and darker evenings/mornings I can see why there could be increased accidents.

Not going to defend someone running on the road when there's a footpath, but someone running on a road with no hard shoulder? They're within they're rights, and the problem is not the runner, it is with some motorists that have become so ingrained that they're the only form of road user there should be that the whole concept of being able to brake in the distance you can see, expect the unexpected etc has disappeared.

If that runner lives on that road, are we at a point that he has to drive somewhere to run, or drive to the end of a pavement, or something else?

There is a massive problem with enforcement in this state, and that has fed into road behaviour by a proportion of all road user groups. Any road safety bounce got with the introduction of penalty points has long since gone as the chances of getting caught are so low. Picking on individual things is pointless - it needs an iron fist at this stage to change the culture. Wide spread speed and red light cameras, APRN for tax/ insurance/ nct/ disqualified and unqualified drivers, average speed cameras etc etc. And that includes cyclists and pedestrians. It doesn't include people quite legitimately using the roads being forced off by the danger created by other road users.

I would also use the APRN to effectively police the restricted cordon too, as the amount of trucks is still far to high. If it's not the ban being ignored, the amount of passes given is far to high for far too big vehicles.

RIP to the woman.

Ray Palmer

cantalach wrote: »

RIP. Very sad.

I might be wrong here and certainly don't have any stats that would bear this out, but I have a sense that a disproportionately high number of fatalities like this one are female. If this is true, is there something to be learned from this discrepancy?

In a tragic context such as this, I hope it goes without saying that I'm not trolling or attempting to make some sort of sexist point. I'm genuinely wondering if differences in 'attitude' between men and women might be a contributing factor and if this needs to form part of safe cycling campaigns.

Generalising is always risky, but I notice that female cyclists commuting around my own city (Cork) tend to adopt a less aggressive road position than their male counterparts: seldom taking ownership of a lane, swinging wider when negotiating small roundabouts or right turns, stopping further back at the lights, etc.

This is a terrible tragedy and some might feel that the above is inappropriate on this day. I respect that view but think any discussion that might go any way towards reducing the risk of this happening again is justifiable.

The stats are quite clear generally it is men between 18-45 cyclists likely to be killed on the roads in Ireland. Mainly because more men in that range are commuter cyclists.

Moflojo

Here's the thing that worries me, and please forgive me if people don't think it's relevant, but the recent spate of cycling-related deaths could be just the tip of the iceberg and things might get a lot worse before they get better. There are a number of factors that are now combining to create a more dangerous environment for cyclists.

The economy crashed in 2008/2009 and this resulted in a huge decrease in the number of vehicles on the roads due to job losses, less goods being transported, and construction traffic disappearing completely from our roads.

The Bike to Work scheme was introduced in 2009 and proved extremely popular due to the financial incentive and people looking for cheaper alternatives for their commute. Cycling popularity has increased massively since the introduction of the scheme.

The Dublin Bikes scheme was also introduced around the same time as the Bike to Work scheme and has been a huge success. Dublin Bikes could also be seen as a sort of "gateway drug" where users move on to harder products and start buying their own bikes, thereby further increasing the number of cyclists on the road.

The economic crisis also took money away from public expenditure and, except for a couple of minor projects and the public bike sharing schemes, there has been close to zero investment in cycling infrastructure. The roads and streets remain relatively untouched since before the current boom in cycling popularity.

Now the economy is improving. More people are back at work. The construction industry is finding its feet, in Dublin at least. There are more private cars on the road, more company cars, business vehicles, HGVs, and construction vehicles. Yet the infrastructure remains the same.

More vehicles. More HGVs. More cyclists. Same infrastructure.

The likelihood of conflict between cyclists and vehicles has increased massively in the past 12 months, and unfortunately the morbid statistics of cyclist fatalities are starting to reflect that.

I was hoping no one would attempt to find validity in the cyclist being female and that being a factor.
We don't even know anything about what caused this.

Terrible.

fguinan

Rip.

I really believe that current cycle lanes need to be reviewed and removed if they are unsafe....

jon1981

fguinan wrote: »

Rip.

I really believe that current cycle lanes need to be reviewed and removed if they are unsafe....

Well based on the recent announcement that ain't happening anytime soon

http://www.stickybottle.com/latest-news/cycling-projects-in-dublin-pulled-as-luas-gets-funding-priority/

mr spuckler

Bam Bam Mickey wrote: »

I was hoping no one would attempt to find validity in the cyclist being female and that being a factor.
We don't even know anything about what caused this.

Terrible.

i don't think anyone was doing that. certainly my post on the topic was in response to what seemed to be a more general question / observation.

incidents like todays bring up wider conversations which can be helpful to educate all road users about the risks and potential causes of incidents, even if that's far removed from what caused todays tragedy.

nobody that i saw was suggesting anything about the cause of this awful incident.

triggermortis

Very sad news. RIP poor girl and condolences to her family and friends

P_1

Cycled past the spot this afternoon. Sadly it seems the lady got caught on the inside of the truck at the left between Seville Place and Sheriff Street. Really shook me up as that spot is on my daily commute and I'd consider the spot to be rather safe.

My condolences to the lady's family and friends.

RobFowl

Shocking news and i feel for her family and the driver.
RIP and we are all family on the road.

mr spuckler

mr spuckler wrote: »

i don't think anyone was doing that. certainly my post on the topic was in response to what seemed to be a more general question / observation.

incidents like todays bring up wider conversations which can be helpful to educate all road users about the risks and potential causes of incidents, even if that's far removed from what caused todays tragedy.

nobody that i saw was suggesting anything about the cause of this awful incident.

Not you.

I might be wrong here and certainly don't have any stats that would bear this out, but I have a sense that a disproportionately high number of fatalities like this one are female. If this is true, is there something to be learned from this discrepancy

Is there something to be learned about something you don't know any of the facts in apart from the cyclist was female?

Do you have that poster on ignore? That's all I can think as to why you didn't see it.

Wishbone Ash

P_1 wrote: »

Cycled past the spot this afternoon. Sadly it seems the lady got caught on the inside of the truck at the left between Seville Place and Sheriff Street. Really shook me up as that spot is on my daily commute and I'd consider the spot to be rather safe.

My condolences to the lady's family and friends.

I use that junction regularly but usually take the lane and have never had any incidents there that I can recall. The road does narrow at the left bend onto Seville place and I've seen others gets squeezed out by small vehicles nevermind trucks - hence the reason I take the lane. The parking on the left at the approach doesn't help either as there is potential to get 'doored' also.

Condolences to the girl's family/friends.

cantalach

Ray Palmer wrote: »

The stats are quite clear generally it is men between 18-45 cyclists likely to be killed on the roads in Ireland. Mainly because more men in that range are commuter cyclists.

Thanks. Do you have any links? I realise that road fatalities generally are very heavily skewed towards young men. But I was referring to cycling specifically.

cantalach

Bam Bam Mickey wrote: »

Do you have that poster on ignore? That's all I can think as to why you didn't see it.

Sorry, afraid I'm lost. What poster?

Rogue-Trooper

RIP to the poor girl and my sympathies to her family, to the driver and to anyone who was unfortunate enough to witness it.

I have to say this really shook me today. I could see the accident scene from the window in work and I had only passed that same spot an hour or 2 previously.

Please take care out there folks and stay safe.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Very sad news to hear . I don't think I ever cycled that road, only drove it. It's always busy from what I can remember.

Stheno

Drive that way regularly.

RIP to the poor lady

Chuchote

Deepest sympathy to the family of the cyclist. Sympathy also to the trucker, his life will never return to what it was after a tragedy like this.

Ray Palmer wrote: »

I had both a car and a bus pull into me this morning. The did see me they just didn't care. Seriously considering giving up cycling at this point.

I hope you reported the bus to Bus Éireann or Dublin Bus, or to the company owners if a private bus. For the sake of the rest of us, please do this.

beauf wrote: »

The accidents that have occurred in very different situations, as such its not the time to be making sweeping generalisations. Or jumping to conclusions.

Most cyclist deaths and injuries happen at junctions where they have contact with cars, and especially with trucks and buses.

fguinan wrote: »

Rip.

I really believe that current cycle lanes need to be reviewed and removed if they are unsafe....

Redesigned, rather. No cycle lane should bring any cyclist near a truck. Cycle lanes should be protected. Above all, no cycle lane should bring a cyclist up on the blind side of a turning truck.

And trucks (and cars, for that matter) should be redesigned with transparent doors (like this below) and wide-angle curved windscreens, and convex mirrors, and for that matter sensors that beep if there's a bike near, so the driver can see perfectly easily what's in the path of his wheels before he turns.

a148pro

RIP

I know there are very good reasons why we don't discuss the perceived causes of accidents like this in their aftermath, but I remember suggesting previously that we have a separate thread to discuss the results of inquests or enquiries into cycling deaths. I think as cyclists we can all learn from these events. I don't know does anyone have a link to any resources?

TallGlass

Just out of interest. I think that the maximum level we have in Dublin is an advanced paramedic. But do we have anything like in the show on BBC 'an hour to save your life', as in emergency medicine doctors arriving on scene and if needed starting lifesaving treatment there and then rather than waiting?

On the programme there are alot of HGV accidents, and without there intervention I would imagine there outlook would have been different.