Drivers Swerving at Cyclists

Ray Palmer

On Friday I was going through Drumcondra on my usual cycle home. A car pulled out without indicating and appeared not to see me so I shouted out so he didn't hit me. He stopped and I continued on for him to rev his engine and drive at me but he actually hit a cyclist behind me with his wing mirror. He then preceded to drive very close revving his engine before joining back into the traffic.
Now I am sure people will question who was in the right but it really is besides the point. I made no contact with his car but he was certainly threatening me with his car. It isn't the first time it has happened to me but I have seen more people do it.

Is it just me? What should you do in the situation or immediately afterwards?

MOd note on post #81

Chuchote

Ray Palmer wrote: »

On Friday I was going through Drumcondra on my usual cycle home. A car pulled out without indicating and appeared not to see me so I shouted out so he didn't hit me. He stopped and I continued on for him to rev his engine and drive at me but he actually hit a cyclist behind me with his wing mirror. He then preceded to drive very close revving his engine before joining back into the traffic.
Now I am sure people will question who was in the right but it really is besides the point. I made no contact with his car but he was certainly threatening me with his car. It isn't the first time it has happened to me but I have seen more people do it.

Is it just me? What should you do in the situation or immediately afterwards?

Take the number, bring it immediately to the nearest garda station and make a report. Then go and buy a helmet cam.

SCOOP 64

This is when one of those cameras on the helmet would come in handy.

(beat me to it)

Ray Palmer

Chuchote wrote: »

Take the number, bring it immediately to the nearest garda station and make a report. Then go and buy a helmet cam.

Does anything actual happen? Dual cam helmet ordered and the old camera is going on the new bike

cajonlardo

IME traffic watch is the way to go.

I have had 3 very positive experiences with them and find the Gardai follow up very quickly once T.W get onto to them.

Chuchote

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Does anything actual happen? Dual cam helmet ordered and the old camera is going on the new bike

If you report behaviour that could kill, I'd imagine they'd follow it up, if they had the licence plate.

secman

On the coast road from courtown to Ballygarrett yesterday, riding solo, a guy driving towards me in a fck off audi jeep started to blow the horn non stop and giving me the index finger, . I didn't know him from Adam.
Nice of him to warn me that he only has an I Q of one.

Unknown Soldier

Mobius Cam, velcroed to helmet. You can't beat it for value, quality of the video, and battery life, which the latest iterations have is about 2 hours and 20 mins, which is more than enough for a commute, unless you are a cycling legend!

The GUI is exceptional too. Auto updates time/date!

Sample footage below, which was made to show clarity of signage/no plates etc. Using VLC player frame by frame. you'd be surprised at the detail you can get.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYNLQ6eiRU0

Darkglasses

Unknown Soldier wrote: »

Mobius Cam, velcroed to helmet. You can't beat it for value, quality of the video, and battery life, which the latest iterations have is about 2 hours and 20 mins, which is more than enough for a commute, unless you are a cycling legend!

The GUI is exceptional too. Auto updates time/date!

Sample footage below, which was made to show clarity of signage/no plates etc. Using VLC player frame by frame. you'd be surprised at the detail you can get.

Is it this one? https://www.amazon.co.uk/Mobius-1080P-Action-Camera-Recorder/dp/B00FQFO1O0

SteM

So glad I picked up a Fly 6 & Fly 12 when they were on kickstarter. Lots of bad driving these days and I'm glad I have something that might cover me in the event of a dispute.

Kaisr Sose

Something like this happened me yesterday. Car coming from behind tried to undertake me while I was turning right on a roundabout. Not happy with that he then tried to overtake me as I exited but bollards prevented him completing it. He then drove along side me and tried to squeeze me into / towards the kerb. Finally, he overtook me with bare minimum space given with the pedal to the floor and another roundabout just ahead. All this for a few seconds delay? My only contribution to this was being perceived as delaying him!

I am sick and tired of the aggression and impatience of some motorists. Going to report the driver - not hopeful anything will be done about it. My word versus his lies no doubt, and with no record to substantiate dangerous driving, not much they can do but have a word! Fly6 is certainly on the buy list.

Wishbone Ash

SteM wrote: »

So glad I picked up a Fly 6 & Fly 12 when they were on kickstarter. Lots of bad driving these days and I'm glad I have something that might cover me in the event of a dispute.

What's the battery life like on the Fly 6/12 and does the light go dead when the camera does?

Presumably at night the quality is poor or non-existant when headlights are directed on it?

SteM

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

What's the battery life like on the Fly 6/12 and does the light go dead when the camera does?

Presumably at night the quality is poor or non-existant when headlights are directed on it?

The battery on the newer fly 12 is much better than the fly 6 but I've had the 6 much longer. The light goes dead when the camera does, the good thing about fly 12 is you can turn the camera on without turning the light on so that's handy during the summer. The fly 6 defaults to a very bright light as soon as you turn it on but it can be turned down so it's not intense and that saves on battery life. Get about 60km from the fly 12 and half that from the fly 6. That depends on the light intensity I'm using though.

Haven't looked at night footage to be honest, might test it tomorrow. Would imagine it's the same with most cameras and they'll struggle with headlights shined on them at night.

LpPepper

I had 2 cars purposely close pass myself and my dad while out on a spin last week - and had another driver shout abuse for not being in an off road cycle lane, while we were cycling in the bus lane. The Audi in the video very nearly hit me...feel like reporting to the Gardaí but not sure if anything will be done about it.

https://youtu.be/7dCt3DgFh0k

Ginger83

LpPepper wrote: »

I had 2 cars purposely close pass myself and my dad while out on a spin last week - and had another driver shout abuse for not being in an off road cycle lane, while we were cycling in the bus lane. The Audi in the video very nearly hit me...feel like reporting to the Gardaí but not sure if anything will be done about it.

https://youtu.be/7dCt3DgFh0k

Report that driver! I reported a clown that ran us off the road a while back (we were in our car), the driver is going to be prosecuted for dangerous driving.

ED E

Make a traffic watch report, forward them that link. TW follow up with the local seargent(?) and I can't see how that's anything other than driving without due care and attention.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgOuAowp_1Q

Wonded what TW would have said about this one though.

Edit: BBcode is breaking itself...
Edit2: Damn auto shortening YT!

Vizzy

I presume you are talking about the driver here ?

Edit: Where did the post I was replying to go ?

Edit 2: Its back (below)

hytrogen

Ray Palmer wrote:

Is it just me? What should you do in the situation or immediately afterwards?

Stop and say "sorry" followed by a polite "are you ok?" Would reduce the insinuation to cause further road rage later on from your abusive shouting probably, as it sounds like it your initial reaction caused a domino effect to create road rage for another cyclist later on.
And remember kids the laws on helmcams, you still need written consent of the photographed or videoed person before presenting for legal processing

MediaMan

secman wrote: »

On the coast road from courtown to Ballygarrett yesterday, riding solo, a guy driving towards me in a fck off audi jeep started to blow the horn non stop and giving me the index finger, . I didn't know him from Adam.
Nice of him to warn me that he only has an I Q of one.

I've had a couple of situations in the last 6 months where, in each case on a fairly narrow road, someone driving in the opposite direction deliberately came towards me before veering back to their own side of the road. Had me wondering what (if anything) goes through the heads of people who behave like that.

robyntmorton

hytrogen wrote: »

Stop and say "sorry" followed by a polite "are you ok?" Would reduce the insinuation to cause further road rage later on from your abusive shouting probably, as it sounds like it your initial reaction caused a domino effect to create road rage for another cyclist later on.

Are you for real?! You automatically do three things in this situation: Slam on the brakes, yell, and hope you come out the other side in one piece. The OP has no reason to apologise. The driver on the other hand, deserves to have the book thrown at them. You make a mistake, apologise, and move on when safe to do so. You do not drive in the manner as indicated by the OP (we were not there, and only have their account).

As for the helmet cam thing - I had a very near miss with a taxi on Sunday. I waved down a passing cycle Garda, who calmed me down, had a chat with me, but acknowledged that without GoPro footage, reporting it becomes very difficult.

Orion

hytrogen wrote: »

And remember kids the laws on helmcams, you still need written consent of the photographed or videoed person before presenting for legal processing

No you don't. If it's in a public area it's perfectly legal to video or photograph anyone - including Gardai.

ED E

Orion wrote: »

No you don't. If it's in a public area it's perfectly legal to video or photograph anyone - including Gardai.

With the small caveat of not obstructing or interfering with garda business (don't be tool).

coolbeans

[/quote]And remember kids the laws on helmcams, you still need written consent of the photographed or videoed person before presenting for legal processing[/quote]

This is nonsense.

Orion

ED E wrote: »

With the small caveat of not obstructing or interfering with garda business (don't be tool).

Absolutely. Taking photos/videos or not doesn't give you the right to interfere with gardai. But you can still video them without getting in the way of their duties.

You can also use video or photography in a private place unless the property owner denies or limits such permission (limits e.g. flash photography etc). Even if not limited on entry if they say stop you must stop or they can insist you leave.

But in a public area - such as a public road you can video all you like.

smacl

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Is it just me? What should you do in the situation or immediately afterwards?

Happened to a friend of mine in Renelagh a couple of year ago, who got knocked off, and also just happened to be an active heavyweight full contact fighter on the European circuit at the time. His approach was to haul the guy out of the car at the lights, throw on the bonnet, and ask him what he thought he playing at. Bit of an over-reaction maybe but very entertaining all the same. Personally I'd try to just get the reg and pass it onto the Gardaí, but more likely end up hurling a stream of loud expletives and not getting around to following it up properly. Times I have followed up with the Gardaí (once had a bottle thrown at me from a car, once whacked with a coat hanger from a passing car), Gardaí have been very good.

Subcomandante Marcos

ED E wrote: »

Make a traffic watch report, forward them that link. TW follow up with the local seargent(?) and I can't see how that's anything other than driving without due care and attention.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgOuAowp_1Q

Wonded what TW would have said about this one though.

Edit: BBcode is breaking itself...
Edit2: Damn auto shortening YT!

"you're blocking the bus lane".

You might be a fat fecker, but you're no fecking bus, Garda.

Chuchote

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

"you're blocking the bus lane".

You might be a fat fecker, but you're no fecking bus, Garda.

Kind of strange that a garda doesn't know that cyclists are a legal part of bus lane traffic. Was this really a garda?

magicbastarder

Deedsie wrote: »

I don't think any of that is remotely true or accurate.

i have heard several theories about the law relating to cameras/CCTV.
one was a colleague who installed a home security system, and a neighbour warned him that without CCTV warning signs, it would be considered entrapment to record someone breaking into his house.

Chuchote

magicbastarder wrote: »

i have heard several theories about the law relating to cameras/CCTV.
one was a colleague who installed a home security system, and a neighbour warned him that without CCTV warning signs, it would be considered entrapment to record someone breaking into his house.

Was this neighbour a lawyer?

Surely 'entrapment' means actually luring someone into committing a crime, like the felon-setting of the 19th century, when coppers would join the Fenians, persuade these poor idiots that it was a good idea to blow up the House of Commons, and then they'd all be arrested?

magicbastarder

Chuchote wrote: »

Was this neighbour a lawyer?

certainly not that i'm aware. i didn't mean to imply that the above claim was true, but that opinions on the legality of such things are ten a penny, and more often than not untrue, i'd guess.

Wishbone Ash

I'm not sure if it differs from a domestic situation but at work, we are required to have signage in place indicating that CCTV is in operation. During a regulatory inspection a few years ago, it was pointed out that one of the signs was absent and we were required to replace it immediately.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

hytrogen wrote: »

Ray Palmer wrote:

Is it just me? What should you do in the situation or immediately afterwards?

Stop and say "sorry" followed by a polite "are you ok?" Would reduce the insinuation to cause further road rage later on from your abusive shouting probably, as it sounds like it your initial reaction caused a domino effect to create road rage for another cyclist later on.
And remember kids the laws on helmcams, you still need written consent of the photographed or videoed person before presenting for legal processing

Wtf are you talking about? What law is this? Sounds like freeman bs to me. Anyway, can you link the law?

Also, victim blaming. What's the cyclist to say sorry for? He had the right of way. He shouted at the that in the car who completely over reacted. We need to eradicate your mentality on our roads.

Chuchote

Chuchote wrote: »

Kind of strange that a garda doesn't know that cyclists are a legal part of bus lane traffic. Was this really a garda?

Only a Garda thinks flashing a badge makes them WIN a argument they are losing.
The way he drove at that cyclist, he should be charged.

Chuchote

Deedsie wrote: »

Is that really your best example of entrapment? Strange comment and sounds like BS. The Fenians targeted several British institutions, military, police, House of Commons etc. They were not tricked into doing it. It was a targeted campaign.

Two were arrested for blowing up the commons chamber.

Yes, plenty of Fenians blew things up. Felon-setting was also heavily used by the British to entrap Fenian cells.

07Lapierre

magicbastarder wrote: »

i have heard several theories about the law relating to cameras/CCTV.
one was a colleague who installed a home security system, and a neighbour warned him that without CCTV warning signs, it would be considered entrapment to record someone breaking into his house.

:eek: I seriously doubt that.

tomasrojo

The act of government agents or officials that induces a person to commit a crime he or she is not previously disposed to commit.

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/entrapment

Capturing someone on video in the act doesn't meet this definition, as far as I can see. You'd have to have lured them into doing the act; the mere act of having a house isn't a lure.

magicbastarder

yep, as mentioned, it was just an example of the sort of theory that gains legs, rather than one being rooted in fact.

this is from the DPC site, and is obviously relevant to the requirement to put up signs, mentioned by Wishbone Ash:
"Covert surveillance.

The use of recording mechanisms to obtain data without an individual's knowledge is generally unlawful. Covert surveillance is normally only permitted on a case by case basis where the data are kept for the purposes of preventing, detecting or investigating offences, or apprehending or prosecuting offenders. This provision automatically implies that a written specific policy be put in place detailing the purpose, justification, procedure, measures and safeguards that will be implemented with the final objective being, an actual involvement of An Garda Síochána or other prosecution authorities for potential criminal investigation or civil legal proceedings being issued, arising as a consequence of an alleged committal of a criminal offence(s).

Covert surveillance must be focused and of short duration. Only specific (and relevant) individuals/locations should be recorded. If no evidence is obtained within a reasonable period, the surveillance should cease."

Alanstrainor

I have this happen from time to time. Or you have the ones that will pull into the cycle lane to block it, and when you pass on the outside will move out. I try to just ignore and move on to be honest.

magicbastarder

weirdest one i had with a driver taking an odd line on me was when i took primary position entering a single lane roundabout (i was taking a right out of the roundabout, i.e. entering at 6 o'clock position, leaving at 3).
a taxi behind me decided to overtake me, but swung around to my left, and undertook me - which was kinda alarming as i didn't know where he was going to exit; and he pretty much forced me to near the kerb on the roundabout itself. he took the same exit as me, which was an incredibly risky thing to do, but he'd passed me by the time he exited.

Chuchote

Deedsie wrote: »

Oh I don't argue that the IRB were infiltrated by the British but there is zero evidence to suggest entrapment.

The IRB targeted the British police, military and government aiming to achieve a democratic Irish Republic. Referring to them incorrectly as "idiots" who were entrapped is provocative and unnecessary in a cycling forum on an Irish website.

My own personal opinion. Those who think highly of the Fenians may freely express their opinions too.

seamus

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

I'm not sure if it differs from a domestic situation but at work, we are required to have signage in place indicating that CCTV is in operation. During a regulatory inspection a few years ago, it was pointed out that one of the signs was absent and we were required to replace it immediately.

That's really for the employees, not any intruders. There's an assumed level of privacy in a private workplace such that any change to that level of privacy (like CCTV) must be clearly notified to staff and visitors. Intruders, not so much.

There's a lot of urban legend and mis/disinformation about the use of cameras.

On the topic of the OP, I'm sure I have over time been subject to "punishment passes" or people thinking they were intimidating me. Thankfully headphones turns a shouty passenger's nonsense into unintelligible nonsense and a little wave or a blown kiss is adequate response.

While riding a club TT once I did get clipped by a trailer behind a landrover. Literally clipped the edge of my foot - didn't even wobble, but at 40kmh in the aero position you don't want anything hitting you. But as there was no obvious swerve by that driver nor any shouting or anything, I can only assume he was a gormless moron rather than someone trying to punish me.

The only one that stands out was a girl in a Mini who for some reason had an absolute aversion to being overtaken by a bike. Heavy morning traffic, so everything moving slowly. As I came up the left, she pulled in to block me, so I went around behind her, passed on the right and up to the lights. The line of traffic overtakes me after the lights and at the next set of lights I'm overtaking on the right and this same girl again, 6 or 7 cars back from the lights swerves right, leaving her car sitting diagonally in the traffic and with her nose over the white line. As I go past her anyway, I can see she's literally bouncing up and down in the car with rage and screaming at me.

I wouldn't mind if I'd kicked off her wing mirror or spat on her window or something, but we had literally no interaction at all until she tried to block me.

People are fncking weird, man.

magicbastarder

seamus wrote: »

As I go passed her anyway, I can see she's literally bouncing up and down in the car with rage and screaming at me.

you mentioned you wear headphones - maybe you mistook what she was saying, and that she actually wanted your number?

2RockMountain

magicbastarder wrote: »

i have heard several theories about the law relating to cameras/CCTV.
one was a colleague who installed a home security system, and a neighbour warned him that without CCTV warning signs, it would be considered entrapment to record someone breaking into his house.

The recent Rynes judgement raises some interesting issues for CCTV operators. The householder who installed the CCTV in this case lost a case to the gurrier who he caught on camera attacking his house!

http://www.irelandip.com/2014/12/articles/privacy-1/cjeu-restricts-use-of-cctv-surveillance-for-domestic-purposes/

A literal interpretation of this ruling could make any helmetcam, dashcam or indeed taking of any photo in a public place illegal. There has been no rush by DP authorities to apply this ruling beyond CCTV.

magicbastarder

the main caveat to note with that was that he'd put the footage up on a public website.
plus, you just need to make sure the camera is covering your property only.

mrcheez

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Does anything actual happen? Dual cam helmet ordered and the old camera is going on the new bike

Certainly does, but here's a tip: Get a picture of the driver's face.

I recently had a report with the Gardai where some kids through a stone at me as they passed. I had it on video and had the car reg.

Kid was called in, but they couldn't prove he was driving the car at the time as the father stepped in and said he was driving.

So since they couldn't prove who was driving they couldn't prosecute. I was told that if I had gotten his face on the camera, it would have 100% gone to court.

The guards also complimented me on the footage and said it was immensely helpful to have.

07Lapierre

magicbastarder wrote: »

the main caveat to note with that was that he'd put the footage up on a public website.
plus, you just need to make sure the camera is covering your property only.

I know were going way off topic..but I do think the law is a Ass when it comes to CCTV in public places.

http://www.independent.ie/business/farming/villagers-fight-crime-with-cctv-34658118.html

Fian

seamus wrote: »

The only one that stands out was a girl in a Mini who for some reason had an absolute aversion to being overtaken by a bike. Heavy morning traffic, so everything moving slowly. As I came up the left, she pulled in to block me, so I went around behind her, passed on the right and up to the lights. The line of traffic overtakes me after the lights and at the next set of lights I'm overtaking on the right and this same girl again, 6 or 7 cars back from the lights swerves right, leaving her car sitting diagonally in the traffic and with her nose over the white line. As I go past her anyway, I can see she's literally bouncing up and down in the car with rage and screaming at me.

I wouldn't mind if I'd kicked off her wing mirror or spat on her window or something, but we had literally no interaction at all until she tried to block me.

People are fncking weird, man.

I normally put this down to irritation at having to pass the cyclist again before the next set of traffic lights. See a fair bit of it on the road from the yellow house to nutgrove shopping centre. The road is a pita, very narrow, so a bike does actually impede cars in their rush to queue at the next set of lights. Of course it doesn't actually increase their overall travel time since they are only racing to the back of the next traffic light queue. There is an absolutely useless off road "cycle track" on that stretch as well, but it is really not usable. Adds to driver frustration though since they think the bikes are just being obnoxious by not using it. Fair amount of cycle traffic there too because it is the obvious route to the mountains or to Firhouse.

Drivers are frustrated in the traffic there though, and they often pull in tight to the curb to try to stop cyclists filtering past them. Which of course only results in them being passed on the right.

I often go an alternative route (Templeogue road), especially on my way home at weekends when i am tired, rather than deal with the hassle along that stretch of road.

Unknown Soldier

Darkglasses wrote: »

Is it this one? https://www.amazon.co.uk/Mobius-1080P-Action-Camera-Recorder/dp/B00FQFO1O0

Yes. I think it is at V3 now too.

I use JooVuu though, or the one in the states, that had the rubber cover for it.

Tiny yoke, and you could carry a spare for longer spins too.

For size..

mickdw

Cyclists are in the happy position of being able to identify car drivers who endanger them.
Now when a cyclist filters through traffic and scratches a car, the car driver is left sitting like a fool with no recourse while the cyclist pedals off into the distance.
Is it any wonder drivers get alittle annoyed with the cyclist zooming up beside them continually.
I figure we should have equality on the road - Im sure we are all in favour of that.

I would reasonably therefore expect cyclists to be required to have 3rd party insurance, A registration, attached to the person, not the bike, reg plate sized on the back of a hi viz vest would be excellent. I would also suggest that perhaps licensing should be brought in to ensure that cyclists were at the required standards to travel on the public road.

When all is equal in terms of liability, ability to be identified, ability to pay via insurance and road training, I feel all road users would get on much better.

smacl

mickdw wrote: »

Cyclists are in the happy position of being able to identify car drivers who endanger them.
Now when a cyclist filters through traffic and scratches a car, the car driver is left sitting like a fool with no recourse while the cyclist pedals off into the distance.

Don't see too many drivers in hospital after they got brushed by a bike though do you?

seamus

Yeah....no.

It is not "any wonder" why drivers get annoyed by cyclists overtaking them. Cyclists aren't colliding with cars and scratching them all over the place and cycling off.

It's mostly just frustration - "I'm sitting here and I really want to move and this petulant little ****er is just cruising on past me. How dare he!"

"Equality on the road" is an interesting question. Strictly speaking, no, we should not have equality on the road, because all vehicles are not equal. The larger the vehicle, the higher the required standard the operator should be held to.