The most dangerous road in Ireland...M50?

Phil.x

Went from N3 to howth and back today and I found that the return leg much more dangerous......people just don't give a fcuk, bully boy driving, nose to tail driving, cutting lanes like it's their gods given right, a 4 truck convoy in the middle lane the entire length of my journey, 1ltr cars that drive like there's no tomorrow. Everybody driving very close to one another at 100kph+...maybe it's due to the m50 at peak capacity.

I don't drive to work anymore due to traffic and car space at work.
Every so often I have to drive in using the N3 at 7am and mother of God some people really shouldn't drive judding by some of the stuff I see, ...give me the overcrowded trains any day of the week.

Atlantic Dawn

I'd say it's by far the safest road in the country for volume of traffic handled.

Dartz

Assume everyone's trying to kill you and drive accordingly.

Kill them ****ers first.

Del2005

Phil.x wrote: »

Went from N3 to howth and back today and I found that the return leg much more dangerous......people just don't give a fcuk, bully boy driving, nose to tail driving, cutting lanes like it's their gods given right, a 4 truck convoy in the middle lane the entire length of my journey, 1ltr cars that drive like there's no tomorrow. Everybody driving very close to one another at 100kph+...maybe it's due to the m50 at peak capacity.

I don't drive to work anymore due to traffic and car space at work.
Every so often I have to drive in using the N3 at 7am and mother of God some people really shouldn't drive judding by some of the stuff I see, ...give me the overcrowded trains any day of the week.

Sounds like the motorway around most large cities. The M25 around London is the same and the ring road around Paris is legendary.

For the volume of traffic it's one of the safest roads in the country.

bladespin

Do NOT drive in Italy, Greece etc etc

Just a little advice.

Fiskar

Where is the N3, not aware such a road exists, do you mean M3?
Try driving in the UK, nose to tail is the rigeaur.

D0NNELLY

Fiskar wrote: »

Where is the N3, not aware such a road exists, do you mean M3?
Try driving in the UK, nose to tail is the rigeaur.

What's the name of the road that goes by Blanch towards clonee? No way that's a motorway..

Alun

Fiskar wrote: »

Where is the N3, not aware such a road exists, do you mean M3?

It's between the M3 and the M50, where it's always been.

Irish_rat

This fella should try driving on real roads in the wesht of Ireland.

The likes of the gweebarra bends, N86 and Conor pass are much safer than the M50 alright.

Fiskar

Alun wrote: »

It's between the M3 and the M50, where it's always been.

Gotcha, almost spaghetti junction but not quite. Lots of directions to take but not like the Mad Cow junction.

If you cannot hack it then stay off it.

Charles Babbage

Alun wrote: »

Fiskar wrote: »

Where is the N3, not aware such a road exists, do you mean M3?

It's between the M3 and the M50, where it's always been.

They have one in Cavan and another one in Donegal too.

166man

Try driving on the 405 North or South from Los Angeles and then try the M50! 8 lanes on either side of the road...:D

DakarVert

Try drive a backroad in the middle of silage season, Round a bend and there's a lad flat out in a tractor loaded to the bollox and he anchors on locking the trailer brakes while you aim for the narrow gap hoping you'll get through.

**Timbuk2**

The M50 is grand when dry, however it always amazes me how poor the drainage is. The surface water that can build up between the M1 and N4 junctions needs to be seen to be believed :eek:

Chromosphere

The most dangerous road in the country is probably a busy, narrow, unupgraded N road like the Cork-Limerick N20.

Roads like the M50 ana N40 are fine. They're just busy at busy times where as most Irish long distance motorways are lightly trafficked and we simply aren't used to seeing much in the way of busy traffic driving.

The M50 never strikes me as that bad. You get the odd moron but that's true or every ring road / beltway I've ever been on.

If you find the M50 bad just never, ever drive in Beijing.

Phil.x

Id easly say beijing and los Angeles have more traffic, but roads are bigger and I assume speed limits are lower. The M50 is the gods given race track.

But in its defence it's the poor motorway infrastructure that's it's downfall.

bladespin

Phil.x wrote:

Id easly say beijing and los Angeles have more traffic, but roads are bigger and I assume speed limits are lower. The M50 is the gods given race track.

Limits are similar in LA but surface is often poor, combined with sudden tailbacks and 4 lane cutting makes it a lot more interesting than the M50.
I drive it every day and xan honestly say that as an orbital route it's certainly no worse than any other I've driven on.

Chromosphere

Chinese drivers have great infrastructure and fast cars but change multiple lanes without warning at 150kmh. Lots of terrible drivers!!

The M50 is a country lane with Sunday drivers in comparison.

twowheelsonly

bladespin wrote: »

Do NOT drive in Italy, Greece etc etc

Just a little advice.

IMO Turkey tops that list. Usually though once you can flash your lights, beep the horn and wave your arms you'll be grand !! It's nuts.
A girl I used to work with here is married there for 20 years. She was nervous about doing her test there but her husband brought a girl from his office to do it instead without telling her and arrived home with a licence in her name.
How anybody drives there, and especially learns to drive there is beyond me!!

http://www.thenational.ae/news/world/europe/turkey-where-a-driving-test-can-take-two-minutes

Back on topic - IMO the most dangerous road in the country is the Cork Limerick road. It's a disgrace.
Having said that, an advanced Bike instructor (and a Garda biker... ) once said to me that the most dangerous road is the one that you're on right now - if everybody thought like that and drove accordingly then there should be far less accidents.

Chromosphere

If they're not going to build an M20 Cork - Limerick they need to upgrade it to acceptable N-standards. Stretches of it are just not safe.

unkel

twowheelsonly wrote: »

A girl I used to work with here is married there for 20 years. She was nervous about doing her test there but her husband brought a girl from his office to do it instead without telling her and arrived home with a licence in her name.

Reminds me of the black man with the 9 fingers that used to do many driving tests here in Dublin

DakarVert

Chromosphere wrote: »

If they're not going to build an M20 Cork - Limerick they need to upgrade it to acceptable N-standards. Stretches of it are just not safe.

Postponed until 2022 now.

ironclaw

Phil.x wrote: »

Id easly say beijing and los Angeles have more traffic, but roads are bigger and I assume speed limits are lower. The M50 is the gods given race track.

No, same limits in Beijing. In fact, traffic is probably faster and closer on the whole. The difference is people drive defensively and aggressively as a collective, you have no hesitation or dilly dallying. People know what to do and how to react. Its not like here where its a flip of the coin whether someone actually understands what is expected of them e.g. If I flash someone out of lane 2 on the M50, they'll either a) Know what I'm on about (1% of the time) or b) Get annoyed and sit there (99% of the time)

As regards road size, yes the super roads are wider, but not by much. Beijing is average of 4 lanes. The ring roads are not all that much wider than the M50 or so in places. LA is wider but far easier as you can flow at the interchanges with perhaps two lanes on them, its a far cry from a single lane to join the N7 to Waterford / Cork if you are approaching Northbound on the M50.

biko

Try India or Middle East, then come back and complain

bpmurray

The M50 is relatively innocuous. I have no idea what people are talking about when they refer to crazy speed freaks - it's difficult to hit the 100kph limit, let alone exceed it. I suppose at 3AM you might be able to go a little quicker but I wouldn't bet on it. However, poor lane discipline (recognised over 20 years ago by the AA in the UK as being the most dangerous behaviour on a motorway) is rife and there doesn't seem to be any willingness to address it. Other threads on boards make jokes about how we handle M-way lanes, but when you consider that hogging the middle lane in the UK now gets you a £100 fine, we have a very long way to go indeed. I wonder how much smoother the traffic would flow if people really did drive int he appropriate lanes.

tossy

I don't think the M50 is dangerous - the standard of driving is woeful though ( as it is all over this country) The worst drivers i've ever seen are the Maltese followed closely by Italians and Czechs.

We might not have the organised chaos these countries have but as a country our driving standards and driver etiquette/education is woeful - 3rd world stuff. Fancy motorways and a relatively young car population don't go far enough to mask the poor standard of our driving.

dudara

The beltway around Washington DC used to freak me out a little in places, especially at night. The M50 is relatively OK in comparison

Alanstrainor

I always think we over estimate how bad things are in Ireland. I think the M50 is far far from being dangerous, never mind the most dangerous road in the country. That doesn't mean that 60% of the drivers on it aren't ignorant twats, but they're not exactly dangerous either.

maximum12

bpmurray wrote: »

The M50 is relatively innocuous. I have no idea what people are talking about when they refer to crazy speed freaks - it's difficult to hit the 100kph limit, let alone exceed it. I suppose at 3AM you might be able to go a little quicker but I wouldn't bet on it. However, poor lane discipline (recognised over 20 years ago by the AA in the UK as being the most dangerous behaviour on a motorway) is rife and there doesn't seem to be any willingness to address it. Other threads on boards make jokes about how we handle M-way lanes, but when you consider that hogging the middle lane in the UK now gets you a £100 fine, we have a very long way to go indeed. I wonder how much smoother the traffic would flow if people really did drive int he appropriate lanes.

Middle lane hogging is less of a problem on the M50 because the road is busy most of the day and most of the available road space is used.

It's a big problem on the N7.

Was driving on the M50 on Saturday during the heavy rain and the biggest problem was visibility as there was so much spray being thrown up which forms a mist across the road. Lots of people were not using lights making their cars practically invisible from more than 30-40 metres.

The overhead signs were advising people about surface water but should include advice to switch on lights IMO.

CorkMan_

Alanstrainor wrote: »

I always think we over estimate how bad things are in Ireland. I think the M50 is far far from being dangerous, never mind the most dangerous road in the country. That doesn't mean that 60% of the drivers on it aren't ignorant twats, but they're not exactly dangerous either.

Myself and a friend both have wives that are English. And both of us always comment how quiet Irish roads are after we have been to England!

I've just come back from 2 weeks in England and Scotland and was in Birmingham, Lincoln, Edinburgh and Glasgow to name a few. And I've been on the M25 a few times too. Nearly all roads are heaving with traffic at all hours and plenty of driving like the OP describes. It was actually bliss to get back onto the M50!

_Kaiser_

maximum12 wrote: »

Middle lane hogging is less of a problem on the M50 because the road is busy most of the day and most of the available road space is used.

It's a big problem on the N7.

Was driving on the M50 on Saturday during the heavy rain and the biggest problem was visibility as there was so much spray being thrown up which forms a mist across the road. Lots of people were not using lights making their cars practically invisible from more than 30-40 metres.

The overhead signs were advising people about surface water but should include advice to switch on lights IMO.

Your latter point is a bigger issue than any "middle lane hogging" IMO. Idiots driving around in poor weather or when it's dark with no or minimal lights on is a far bigger issue

I drive the N7 and M50 daily and with the exception of when it's at a standstill or start-stop I GENUINELY have no problems for the most part - with the exception of the dawdling idiots who can't merge properly, or who leave it to the last minute to dive across 3 lanes to their exit of course!

The issue I think is confidence and driving style. On a road like the M50/N7 you need to accept that it's NOT like any other motorway (or indeed the M7 after Naas) and so the normal etiquette of keeping left just isn't practical unless the road is pretty much empty. Between convoys of trucks, a rash of exits and merges all within a few km, and sheer traffic volume, ALL lanes should be used and (as you say at the start of your post) that is what actually happens in reality.

I travel both just after peak times and have no issue with getting to and maintaining 100 km/h, and rarely have an issue with tailgaters or people cutting in front. I don't tailgate, I observe and anticipate the other traffic (a giveaway that someone is thinking of cutting you off is how the car starts drifting towards you while they make up their minds), and I react accordingly.. I don't dawdle unnecessarily, I indicate in plenty of time to give everyone time to get used to the idea (rather than the common tactic of indicating while already committed to the move or just not bothering at all), and I don't indulge muppetry.

It's actually pretty rare that I encounter any issues by following the above.

robtri

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/crash-report

"The most dangerous stretches of road


The Garda has a list of 727 "speed enforcement zones" across the State where significant mumbers of collisions involving speed have occurred over recent years. A map of these routes can be viewed here. These guide the location of its "GoSafe" speed cameras, which target key days and times when collisions are most likely to occur. To determine which section of road is "most dangerous" requires traffic flow information, which isn't readily available on non-national roads. The National Roads Authority maintains a list of about 180 "high collision" areas, but has not released them publicly.

One of the sections of road with a particularly high casualty rate is a stretch of single carriageway between Arklow and Rathnew, which has claimed 33 lives over 25 years, making it one of the worst blackspots in the country. Last month, it was by-passed by a new section of the M11."

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

ianobrien

OP, try the E11, Sheikh Maktoom highway from Abu Dhabi to Sheikh Zayed road in Dubai. In parts is 16 lanes wide, with people constantly trying to break the unofficial time record. Also, try any motorway in India. I've come across herds of cows crossing the road, tractors coming against me, trucks broken down in the overtaking lane.....

Phil.x

ianobrien wrote: »

OP, try the E11, Sheikh Maktoom highway from Abu Dhabi to Sheikh Zayed road in Dubai. In parts is 16 lanes wide, with people constantly trying to break the unofficial time record. Also, try any motorway in India. I've come across herds of cows crossing the road, tractors coming against me, trucks broken down in the overtaking lane.....

Id love to try those roads.

Just a thought, is it just because of work that people drive faster, take more risks, chop lanes and jamming on and fcuk everybody else as I'm racing the clock.

Some people here seem to be immune or oblivious to dangers on the road as they themselves might have become that type of driver through time and complacent .

It would be interesting if people left the car at home for 3 or 4 months to forget how bad rush hour traffic has become and then see what their point of view is on return.

bladespin

Phil.x wrote:

Some people here seem to be immune or oblivious to dangers on the road as they themselves might have become that type of driver through time and complacent .

Personally I think it's the drivers who are happy to sit in their 'comfort' zone who become complacent and then panic when confronted with something different.

Del2005

Phil.x wrote: »

Id love to try those roads.

Just a thought, is it just because of work that people drive faster, take more risks, chop lanes and jamming on and fcuk everybody else as I'm racing the clock.

People drive as bad when they aren't going to work. It's the 1t+ of metal that makes them invincible, meet most of them when not driving and they wouldn't barge into a queue at a till or make obscene gestures if someone gets a seat ahead of them

Phil.x wrote: »

Some people here seem to be immune or oblivious to dangers on the road as they themselves might have become that type of driver through time and complacent .

It's that cars have gotten so safe that people now don't think there's any risk when driving, they think that even if they do crash the car will safe them while forgetting about physics.

Phil.x wrote: »

It would be interesting if people left the car at home for 3 or 4 months to forget how bad rush hour traffic has become and then see what their point of view is on return.

Ask the teachers they are only back after a month holiday, so shouldn't off been driving that much during rush hour.

job seeker

DakarVert wrote: »

Try drive a backroad in the middle of silage season, Round a bend and there's a lad flat out in a tractor loaded to the bollox and he anchors on locking the trailer brakes while you aim for the narrow gap hoping you'll get through.

Or when the gap to the field is on a blind bend and the only warning your given to slow down is a jumper on a stick out side the gap. Like a red safety triangle, (which comes in the boot of most modern cars) a few hundred meters up the road would work wonders

Special Circumstances

robtri wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/crash-report

"The most dangerous stretches of road


The Garda has a list of 727 "speed enforcement zones" across the State where significant mumbers of collisions involving speed have occurred over recent years. A map of these routes can be viewed here. These guide the location of its "GoSafe" speed cameras, which target key days and times when collisions are most likely to occur. To determine which section of road is "most dangerous" requires traffic flow information, which isn't readily available on non-national roads. The National Roads Authority maintains a list of about 180 "high collision" areas, but has not released them publicly.

One of the sections of road with a particularly high casualty rate is a stretch of single carriageway between Arklow and Rathnew, which has claimed 33 lives over 25 years, making it one of the worst blackspots in the country. Last month, it was by-passed by a new section of the M11."

They have a very very active speed enforcement point on the M20 (such as it is) near limerick.
To the best of my knowledge there haven't been any accidents due to speed there.

But they'll pull you over into the hard shoulder for doing 23kph over the limit. So I guess it's only a matter of time before there is a serious accident there.

Are you within your rights to drop to 120kph and head for the next exit before stopping? Rather than hauling on the anchors and pulling up for a chat on a motorway?

ironclaw

Special Circumstances wrote: »

Are you within your rights to drop to 120kph and head for the next exit before stopping? Rather than hauling on the anchors and pulling up for a chat on a motorway?

Yes, you are. Any time I've been stopped, in America anyway, they are pretty thankful if you pull off the highway.

'Safer for you, safer for me, officer' - *Cue cheesy smile*

Special Circumstances

ironclaw wrote: »

Yes, you are. Any time I've been stopped, in America anyway, they are pretty thankful if you pull off the highway.

'Safer for you, safer for me, officer' - *Cue cheesy smile*

The almost daily twitter feed of them sat in the hard shoulder for chat + admin + photo op suggests they may be working from a different standard operating procedure to other motorway police.

Do the traffic corps have "follow" signs on the cars here? Apart from the stopping up for a chat, the (avoidable) attempts to re enter the main traffic flow are dangerous too.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

Walter2016

bpmurray wrote: »

Other threads on boards make jokes about how we handle M-way lanes, but when you consider that hogging the middle lane in the UK now gets you a £100 fine, we have a very long way to go indeed.

But in the UK most of the motorways are 3 lanes (or 4) whereas here most except the M50 from M1 to Leopardstown and a small part of M3 are 2 lanes, so middle lane hogging of a motorway is not a serious issue here because of such a small amount of motorway having 3 lanes.

Unfortunately there are always a small number of people who can't be "delayed" an extra minute and will cut in at the last second, or undertake or do some other stupid thing to get "ahead". The introduction of average speed cameras will certainly help, but a fleet of unmarked traffic corp cars needs to be deployed to stop that minority of drivers.

ThisRegard

Special Circumstances wrote: »

The almost daily twitter feed of them sat in the hard shoulder for chat + admin + photo op suggests they may be working from a different standard operating procedure to other motorway police.

Do the traffic corps have "follow" signs on the cars here? Apart from the stopping up for a chat, the (avoidable) attempts to re enter the main traffic flow are dangerous too.

UK and American police will stop and have the chats pulled in on the shoulder.

Ericdravancrow

It's not the road....it's the people on it and their driving habits.

Mint Sauce

Try the N4 or N17 heading out of Sligo. Now that can be stressful. Still give me the entire lenght of the M4 or M25 in England over Dublins M50 though. Both might be up to 5/6 lanes in each direction with varible speed limits in places, and nose to tail, but at least theres some lane disapline, and little overtaking lanes hogging.

Special Circumstances

ThisRegard wrote: »

UK and American police will stop and have the chats pulled in on the shoulder.

"Sir it was very dangerous travelling 20kph above the limit on the busy motorway. Now let's both sit here for a while in the hard shoulder and then trundle back out, all in the interests of safety."

Doesn't make sense to me in any country!

ThisRegard

Special Circumstances wrote: »

"Sir it was very dangerous travelling 20kph above the limit on the busy motorway. Now let's both sit here for a while in the hard shoulder and then trundle back out, all in the interests of safety."

Doesn't make sense to me in any country!

I've been pulled over in the states under an operation in which speeding vehicles are spotted by a plane, and there's about 5 police cars pulling in a group at a time. So you have 10 vehicles or so pulled in at a time while tickets are written/stern talks are given. I can't really remember now, but I may have been told to gun it down the shoulder before pulling out, or given an escort back into traffic.

andekwarhola

The amount of oneupmanship here re: don't try and ever drive in XY country makes it certain that it's only a matter of time before somebody advises OP to try driving in the Plato Crater in a lunar buggy and get back to us.

We get it.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

bladespin

How did you manage that and how can I try it?

The want is strong.