Is the suckled herd in decline.

blonde10

I've been looking on the old Done Deal Lately,the amount of cows for sale in calf and with calves at foot is rather unusual,is the suckled herd In decline or could these be cows with low icbf star rating that people want to off load..or is it a sign that the viability of sucklers is questionable..what are the bigger herd owner views on the future of suckling..we ourselves have 18 sucklers.The oulfella wants out but to be honest I enjoy it..what's yet views..

case5130

blonde10 wrote: »

I've been looking on the old Done Deal Lately,the amount of cows for sale in calf and with calves at foot is rather unusual,is the suckled herd In decline or could these be cows with low icbf star rating that people want to off load..or is it a sign that the viability of sucklers is questionable..what are the bigger herd owner views on the future of suckling..we ourselves have 18 sucklers.The oulfella wants out but to be honest I enjoy it..what's yet views..

Think it's the weather tbh ...has me questioning weather or not to go all sheep here ,as the lands get dug with sucklers . Wouldn mind the old lad sold out them and I bought into them when I took over

bullnuts

Lots up for sale but who is buying them?

Bullocks

blonde10 wrote: »

I've been looking on the old Done Deal Lately,the amount of cows for sale in calf and with calves at foot is rather unusual,is the suckled herd In decline or could these be cows with low icbf star rating that people want to off load..or is it a sign that the viability of sucklers is questionable..what are the bigger herd owner views on the future of suckling..we ourselves have 18 sucklers.The oulfella wants out but to be honest I enjoy it..what's yet views..

I noticed a good few for sale aswell and they're still not cheap . Maybe its bad weather and lack of silage made in wetter parts of the country .
If they got cheaper closer to the end of the year I wouldn't mind getting a few nice ones , stars wouldn't bother me .
My own father was only saying yesterday that he wouldn't mind less cows and a bit more dry stock

Who2

I don't know if it's in decline or not but there always seems to be a customer for good sucklers, I'd reckon there's going to be a bit of a change over to dairy bred stock over the next few years. With a bit of a lift in the buildings some lads will pull back a bit on the farming .

Salrub

Hear some lads getting out of them with no money in them. Suppose it will hopefully for good for the rest of us left at them as hopefully prices will rise with shortage of stock

charolais0153

In my province on donedeal there seems to be fewer incalf heifers than other years but more cows like you said . they only seem to be selling in ones and twos so I think people are cutting back on the poorer ones and selling them and just keeping the good ones. There is very few whole herd clearance sales tho so its not going to be a mass exodus

dohc turbo2

2 lots of purebred lm sales on down Kerry at moment . Been a rough year down in Kerry , could make it a very long winter as turnout down here is April - may for some

Sam Kade

dohc turbo2 wrote: »

2 lots of purebred lm sales on down Kerry at moment . Been a rough year down in Kerry , could make it a very long winter as turnout down here is April - may for some

That's pure feckin misery.

Bass Reeves

Salrub wrote: »

Hear some lads getting out of them with no money in them. Suppose it will hopefully for good for the rest of us left at them as hopefully prices will rise with shortage of stock

Less suckler progeny is unlikly to increase beef prices. Dairy progney is increasing and will after a while produce stable numbers. unless suckler cows decrease in large numbers it is unlikly that there will be any shortage.

Bullocks

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Less suckler progeny is unlikly to increase beef prices. Dairy progney is increasing and will after a while produce stable numbers. unless suckler cows decrease in large numbers it is unlikly that there will be any shortage.

The only saviour of the sucklers are people's love of a big square powerful cow or a big round arse on a fancy weanlin . I don't think the suckler herd will ever be in any danger of going extinct anyhow regardless of beef prices

Salrub

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Less suckler progeny is unlikly to increase beef prices. Dairy progney is increasing and will after a while produce stable numbers. unless suckler cows decrease in large numbers it is unlikly that there will be any shortage.

Fair enough there will be no real shortage of numbers but the difference between the dairy and suckler will be shown in how they kill out and the quality of the animal

TITANIUM.

Bullocks wrote: »

The only saviour of the sucklers are people's love of a big square powerful cow or a big round arse on a fancy weanlin . I don't think the suckler herd will ever be in any danger of going extinct anyhow regardless of beef prices

Your right. There'll always be a market for good cattle.

TITANIUM.

Bullocks wrote: »

The only saviour of the sucklers are people's love of a big square powerful cow or a big round arse on a fancy weanlin . I don't think the suckler herd will ever be in any danger of going extinct anyhow regardless of beef prices

Your right. There'll always be a market for good cattle.

_Brian

Surely there will be a small rebalancing as the beef from an increased dairy herd come down the line, but lads like breeding their own stock and I can't see that going away anytime soon.
Also, we need the better bred stock to keep export markets in operation, they're an important alternative route to keep stock numbers moving.

Bass Reeves

Salrub wrote: »

Fair enough there will be no real shortage of numbers but the difference between the dairy and suckler will be shown in how they kill out and the quality of the animal

Beef from dairy cattle is a by product. Nothing wrong with beef crosses from dairy cattle only issue is with some of the dairy produce. All processors are of the opinion that O+/R- killing in the 280-350kg bracket are the most suitable for the supermarket spec. I just caught a really insight comment from a the Manor farm CEO last night on a tV program as I was flicking through channels during the adds on another program.

There are 3 million standard processed chickens produced ever week versus 70K free range versus 3K organic. So 3,000,000 V 70,000 V 3000. There is this idea that we can produce for niche markets thsi tells the story of niche markets and how small they are. I wonder how the availibility of 100K free range would change the priing of Free rang chicken.

Unless suckler progeny are profitable to be sold for export they will lose money unless either killed as bulls sub 16 months or as heavy steers over 440 kgs. We will see next year the demand for the 400kg+ carcass.

TITANIUM. wrote: »

Your right. There'll always be a market for good cattle.

At a price

freedominacup

Salrub wrote: »

Fair enough there will be no real shortage of numbers but the difference between the dairy and suckler will be shown in how they kill out and the quality of the animal

I never finished a b&w over twenty months but yet there's guys looking for a lift in the 30 month limit. The fresians must be fair converters by comparison. When 90% of our beef is being exported the vast majority as commodity cuts no one is going to pay you for kill out. And what is this "quality" red herring I constantly hear about? Meat is meat. The French, the original connesieurs of all quality food want old cow beef above all else because of the better taste and eating quality.

Bass Reeves

freedominacup wrote: »

I never finished a b&w over twenty months but yet there's guys looking for a lift in the 30 month limit. The fresians must be fair converters by comparison. When 90% of our beef is being exported the vast majority as commodity cuts no one is going to pay you for kill out. And what is this "quality" red herring I constantly hear about? Meat is meat. The French, the original connesieurs of all quality food want old cow beef above all else because of the better taste and eating quality.

Beef from Holsten cattle is highly marbled like AA cattle

kollegeknight

Cattle were turned out here may. Land is saturated. Must bring in an ag advisor to figure things out a bit with me. Will have 16cows calving but target is 13 max. Thinking of growing rice instead, ha

Salrub

freedominacup wrote: »

I never finished a b&w over twenty months but yet there's guys looking for a lift in the 30 month limit. The fresians must be fair converters by comparison. When 90% of our beef is being exported the vast majority as commodity cuts no one is going to pay you for kill out. And what is this "quality" red herring I constantly hear about? Meat is meat. The French, the original connesieurs of all quality food want old cow beef above all else because of the better taste and eating quality.

It's like everything you get what you pay for. But I know what I would choose between suckler stock or dairy stock. Just my opinion anyway!!

J.O. Farmer

freedominacup wrote: »

Salrub wrote: »

Fair enough there will be no real shortage of numbers but the difference between the dairy and suckler will be shown in how they kill out and the quality of the animal

I never finished a b&w over twenty months but yet there's guys looking for a lift in the 30 month limit. The fresians must be fair converters by comparison. When 90% of our beef is being exported the vast majority as commodity cuts no one is going to pay you for kill out. And what is this "quality" red herring I constantly hear about? Meat is meat. The French, the original connesieurs of all quality food want old cow beef above all else because of the better taste and eating quality.

Some of them black and whites would take fair feeding to finish under 20 months. They'll keep growing a frame till 30 months. Whether it pays to let them run on that long is another question. They will have lots of meat but not so much the prime cuts.
Meat is meat but some meat is better than other meat. The french though are maybe overrated in their taste. If you think French cattle you think lean meat whereas fat gives meat flavour. The extra age of the old might improve flavour but I think it'd need to be hanging until you'd to dump half it although that in itself could make for good beef.

kay 9

Have sucklers here for generations, this is the first year I suggested to himself on cutting down on numbers or getting out of them altogether.
They're almost as bad as the horses, the poor man won't be able keep them soon. Great way of burying money for the lads needing to show big expenses though.
Tbh, I love them and all the hardship they bring at times but after doing the accounts they wouldn't buy ya 20 major a day a good year.
Really considering going back to my 9-5.
I'm in my early 30s and I'm the youngest for miles farming around here of any description.
It's like the country pub, a dying trade/art and it's a pity in many ways.

Excuse the rant...

freedominacup

J.O. Farmer wrote: »

Some of them black and whites would take fair feeding to finish under 20 months. They'll keep growing a frame till 30 months. Whether it pays to let them run on that long is another question. They will have lots of meat but not so much the prime cuts.
Meat is meat but some meat is better than other meat. The french though are maybe overrated in their taste. If you think French cattle you think lean meat whereas fat gives meat flavour. The extra age of the old might improve flavour but I think it'd need to be hanging until you'd to dump half it although that in itself could make for good beef.

I'm talking about pure hols now. American, Dutch, French genetics. 380-400kg carcases at 18-20 months. I wouldn't know how to keep them going any longer than that. You must be getting them into huge weights keeping the the bones of another year. Must be those square fresians you'd hear lads talking about.

patsy_mccabe

I was talking to a guy recently on an open day. He said he knew of a guy that was killing over 70% U grade bulls from Limousin x Dairy bulls. Cows were Montys.
It really does get you thinking about what possibilities there are. I've said this on here before but how low do milk prices have to go to balance against the better calf price from beefier dairy cows.
Dairy guys have been so focused on just milk ouput when quotas were there, but the playing field has changed now.

pedigree 6

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

I was talking to a guy recently on an open day. He said he knew of a guy that was killing over 70% U grade bulls from Limousin x Dairy bulls. Cows were Montys.
It really does get you thinking about what possibilities there are. I've said this on here before but how low do milk prices have to go to balance against the better calf price from beefier dairy cows.
Dairy guys have been so focused on just milk ouput when quotas were there, but the playing field has changed now.

I used to be selling red limousin calves out of Monty cows or monty cross (they still come red). Lad who bought them reckoned they were better than his suckler calves. Don't know what he was breeding. But seems a good cross.
I still am committed to the square cow that will milk though. Can be done.

White Clover

Some dairy farmers that I know who are using the aAa sire selection guide are breeding very balanced cattle. These are all 100% holstein.
I have some myself and they are nice cattle.

J.O. Farmer

freedominacup wrote: »

J.O. Farmer wrote: »

Some of them black and whites would take fair feeding to finish under 20 months. They'll keep growing a frame till 30 months. Whether it pays to let them run on that long is another question. They will have lots of meat but not so much the prime cuts.
Meat is meat but some meat is better than other meat. The french though are maybe overrated in their taste. If you think French cattle you think lean meat whereas fat gives meat flavour. The extra age of the old might improve flavour but I think it'd need to be hanging until you'd to dump half it although that in itself could make for good beef.

I'm talking about pure hols now. American, Dutch, French genetics. 380-400kg carcases at 18-20 months. I wouldn't know how to keep them going any longer than that. You must be getting them into huge weights keeping the the bones of another year. Must be those square fresians you'd hear lads talking about.

I don't finish cattle myself but I've seen some of them holstein/friesen grow into big tall cattle but more rectangular than square.
You must be pushing them hard to get them to 380 400 carcass weight at 18-20 months. That'd be 800 liveweight. There's many beef cattle not hitting them targets though maybe they should be.

Grueller

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

I was talking to a guy recently on an open day. He said he knew of a guy that was killing over 70% U grade bulls from Limousin x Dairy bulls. Cows were Montys.
It really does get you thinking about what possibilities there are. I've said this on here before but how low do milk prices have to go to balance against the better calf price from beefier dairy cows.
Dairy guys have been so focused on just milk ouput when quotas were there, but the playing field has changed now.

Neighbour here was telling me that a guy in his dairy discussion group has 120 pedigree montbelliarde cows. By the time his calf sales and cull sales were added to his milk sales he had the healthiest profit monitor of all participants for 2014 which as far as I remember was a reasonably good year of milk price. Food for thought.

charolais0153

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

I was talking to a guy recently on an open day. He said he knew of a guy that was killing over 70% U grade bulls from Limousin x Dairy bulls. Cows were Montys.
It really does get you thinking about what possibilities there are. I've said this on here before but how low do milk prices have to go to balance against the better calf price from beefier dairy cows.
Dairy guys have been so focused on just milk ouput when quotas were there, but the playing field has changed now.

Not really milk is on the up. Don't believe that story about bulls killing 70%, I often hear things like that round these parts too

Farrell

Grueller wrote: »

Neighbour here was telling me that a guy in his dairy discussion group has 120 pedigree montbelliarde cows. By the time his calf sales and cull sales were added to his milk sales he had the healthiest profit monitor of all participants for 2014 which as far as I remember was a reasonably good year of milk price. Food for thought.

Would a good old fashioned BF not do the same job, & probably out last too

J.O. Farmer

charolais0153 wrote: »

Not really milk is on the up. Don't believe that story about bulls killing 70%, I often hear things like that round these parts too

I think he meant 70% of the bulls killed graded U. To get a 70% kill out you'd probably want to include a fair bit of offal

charolais0153

Was looking at herdplus and a calf I had two years ago . born in September 2014, weighed 440 in July 15, sold for 1200. He was killed June this year at 475 kilos at 20 months. There was no weight limits at the time and I estimate he sold for 2100. U+ 3= . pic of calf below at 3 and a half months

I don't know why more people don't target may /June time to kill their heavy continental cattle. Also I don't think the suckler herd is in decline

patsy_mccabe

J.O. Farmer wrote: »

I think he meant 70% of the bulls killed graded U. To get a 70% kill out you'd probably want to include a fair bit of offal

Yes, sorry meant 70% of the bulls graded U.

Bass Reeves

charolais0153 wrote: »

Was looking at herdplus and a calf I had two years ago . born in September 2014, weighed 440 in July 15, sold for 1200. He was killed June this year at 475 kilos at 20 months. There was no weight limits at the time and I estimate he sold for 2100. U+ 3= . pic of calf below at 3 and a half months

I don't know why more people don't target may /June time to kill their heavy continental cattle. Also I don't think the suckler herd is in decline

Killing 57% he would have been 835LW at slaughter. In 330 days he put up about 400kgs or about 1.2kgs/day. Not sure if there was or was not weight limits. I taught in late May/early June this year there was a hint of them. Even if there was not processors still are slow to buy the, If you have one in a bunch of 8-12 and rest are sub 400kgs then no problem If all the cattle you had were up at or over 450kgs processors would be sticking to a lower base.

He left 800 after fees and transport. If buyer got good gain off grass and did not house until late November he made a touch but that is all. However if he averaged 6kgs of ration and silage form mid November to mid June he would cost nearly 500 in feed costs at 2.3/day. Add in 100 euro for dosing, vet, mortality fixed costs and a bit for grass from July 15 to housing and the margin is not as much as you think. Turning big money but taht is all. If he managed to squeeze feeds costs to 2/day he have another 60 euro in profit.

blue5000

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Killing 57% he would have been 835LW at slaughter. In 330 days he put up about 400kgs or about 1.2kgs/day. Not sure if there was or was not weight limits. I taught in late May/early June this year there was a hint of them. Even if there was not processors still are slow to buy them, If you have one in a bunch of 8-12 and rest are sub 400kgs then no problem If all the cattle you had were up at or over 450kgs processors would be sticking to a lower base.

He left 800 after fees and transport. If buyer got good gain off grass and did not house until late November he made a touch but that is all. However if he averaged 6kgs of ration and silage form mid November to mid June he would cost nearly 500 in feed costs at 2.3/day. Add in 100 euro for dosing, vet, mortality fixed costs and a bit for grass from July 15 to housing and the margin is not as much as you think. Turning big money but taht is all. If he managed to squeeze feeds costs to 2/day he have another 60 euro in profit.

Finished cattle were very scarce this May-June, I had bulls over 24 months sold no problem, yes I agree if you had a load and everything was over 420kg dw you probably wouldn't get away with it, one or two in a load from a regular supplier would be fine. Looking to the future you need to be looking for gaps in supply. Also smaller factories can be easier (more flexible on specs) to deal with when cattle are scarce.

What I mean is 90% of the dairy cattle are born in feb-apr. 30 months along from this is not a good time to sell. But if everyone chases these small niches in the market they disappear.

Bass Reeves

blue5000 wrote: »

Finished cattle were very scarce this May-June, I had bulls over 24 months sold no problem, yes I agree if you had a load and everything was over 420kg dw you probably wouldn't get away with it, one or two in a load from a regular supplier would be fine. Looking to the future you need to be looking for gaps in supply. Also smaller factories can be easier (more flexible on specs) to deal with when cattle are scarce.

What I mean is 90% of the dairy cattle are born in feb-apr. 30 months along from this is not a good time to sell. But if everyone chases these small niches in the market they disappear.

That is what is happening at present. If you look the kill is flatlining in some of these niche periods. Pre/post Christmass was a good market up until abot 2 years ago. Prices would jump when the demand for post Christmas beef (usually starting to be slaughtered the week before Christmas). This lasted until the end of the first Week in February. Lads that targeted it housed cattle October 1st. It no longer peaks like it used to. May/June is similaer, before this price perid began in Mid April. Now it is mid May.

Last year the best price period was July/August. In 2016 this again disappeared. Remember we are getting much the same for cattle now as we did in late July/August. The peaks are no longer as strong, this year we have vaied from a peak of about 4.1/kg to a low of 3.8 on steers. Lads that finished cattle out of sheds got 3.9/kg for most pof the winter. At present you are better off reducing numbers and costs rather than chasing output to increase profit.

While the gross margin on that bulllock seems large he did not live on fresh air for a 210 day winter at least and he could have been housed from September. Remember that wet period last September. Even with a gross margin of 900 euro allowing for interest doubt if he left the lad that bought him 200 euro. This bullock was 475kgs DW a long way from 420. Like I said if rest of the bunch were sub 400 he squeze him in if they were all north of 450kgs he would want to have got the nod from the processor the week they went in.

Was talking to a lad this week and he was onn about how ration will be cheap this winter. My point to him was would it be back 40/ton. If it was this is equivlent to 12c/kg on a 330kg bullock eating a ton of ration or 10c/kg on a lad killing 400kg. It is not going to make you, if you finish cattle on the strenght it and you get your projected base wrong by 30c/kg you will lose a hell of a lot more.

blue5000

The weather, cold spell in April this year created the niche in May - June this year, grass finished cattle were v slow. Feedlots have taken the top off the price peaks too. I was just lucky this year.

freedominacup

blue5000 wrote: »

The weather, cold spell in April this year created the niche in May - June this year, grass finished cattle were v slow. Feedlots have taken the top off the price peaks too. I was just lucky this year.

Wasn't it pudsey who used to keep a close eye on the cmms figures to try to spot holes in the flow of different types of cattle when buying. You could probably take some of the luck element out of it by paying attention to those figures. You can be certain the factories do. There's a farm owned by one of the factory groups close to me and they rarely have the same type of cattle on hand from one three month period to another. There's a lot of fairly plain b&w yearling bulls on hand there atm for the first time in a number of years. Take from that what you will. Only a small corner of their cattle enterprise mind. I'd have no idea what they'd have elsewhere.

Bass Reeves

freedominacup wrote: »

Wasn't it pudsey who used to keep a close eye on the cmms figures to try to spot holes in the flow of different types of cattle when buying. You could probably take some of the luck element out of it by paying attention to those figures. You can be certain the factories do. There's a farm owned by one of the factory groups close to me and they rarely have the same type of cattle on hand from one three month period to another. There's a lot of fairly plain b&w yearling bulls on hand there atm for the first time in a number of years. Take from that what you will. Only a small corner of their cattle enterprise mind. I'd have no idea what they'd have elsewhere.

CMMS figures are in our favour for next 4-6 months, the time of year is not. Rumous is that processors are giving out contracts for Christmass and right through to February. Have not heard what bases they are offering. Very strong trade in cattle that could be slaughtered for next 4-6 months. Them B&W bulls would have good flesh on them if fed virtual ad-lib by Christmass. 2+2 could be equal to 4 but an economist could make it 5 or 3 which ever you wish. Problem is if you do not have a contract Larry and co will use there sheds and contracts to drop the base by Christmas to all those without contracts. No sign of producers groups either.

Lots of lads well p!ssed off after last winter. Have heard of a few finishers that are throwing in the towel. No real rush by lads to fill sheds even if grain will be cheap. If I get cattle at the right price I might chance a pen but they want to be real bargins. No point in buying fancy suckler stores at 11-1200 euro and they coming into 1400 euro in February or March. I am sitting on the cheque book at present.

sonnybill

Bass Reeves wrote: »

CMMS figures are in our favour for next 4-6 months, the time of year is not. Rumous is that processors are giving out contracts for Christmass and right through to February. Have not heard what bases they are offering. Very strong trade in cattle that could be slaughtered for next 4-6 months. Them B&W bulls would have good flesh on them if fed virtual ad-lib by Christmass. 2+2 could be equal to 4 but an economist could make it 5 or 3 which ever you wish. Problem is if you do not have a contract Larry and co will use there sheds and contracts to drop the base by Christmas to all those without contracts. No sign of producers groups either.

Lots of lads well p!ssed off after last winter. Have heard of a few finishers that are throwing in the towel. No real rush by lads to fill sheds even if grain will be cheap. If I get cattle at the right price I might chance a pen but they want to be real bargins. No point in buying fancy suckler stores at 11-1200 euro and they coming into 1400 euro in February or March. I am sitting on the cheque book at present.

Farmers creatures of habit though.. When payments start to come in, sheds are there , bales are made .. The cheque book will come out ! We hope.

Love the cows and love calving, experimenting with Ai newest sires etc but not sure the amount of work is justified and I know I should cut down and have an easy life!

Have 4 years left in BDGP scheme and like I said I've some nice young cows built up , they quiet , go in calf easily and calf anything.., hard to fault them only that between heat detection/ calving/ strip grazing/ creep feeding calves.. Drystock doubled up for 7 months of year wouldn't probably leave me as much but an easy life!

Bass Reeves

sonnybill wrote: »

Farmers creatures of habit though.. When payments start to come in, sheds are there , bales are made .. The cheque book will come out ! We hope.

Love the cows and love calving, experimenting with Ai newest sires etc but not sure the amount of work is justified and I know I should cut down and have an easy life!

Have 4 years left in BDGP scheme and like I said I've some nice young cows built up , they quiet , go in calf easily and calf anything.., hard to fault them only that between heat detection/ calving/ strip grazing/ creep feeding calves.. Drystock doubled up for 7 months of year wouldn't probably leave me as much but an easy life!

While farmers are creatures of habit.......bankers are not. Anybody now finishing a significent amount of cattle needs credit. My understanding is that banks do not approve loans unless credit is in place. Farm payments are more important in the store trade however again they are less and less important as they reduce in value. A 20K SFP will only finance 18-23 finishing stock add in a 50% loan and you are at 35-45 stock. However the real catch is financing the feed. Really big finishers use mostly straights, maize and beet. A 100 day finishing period will cost 250 in feed and allow another 50 for vet, dosing machinery electricity etc.

So to finance a double of continental steers @ 1150/head and 300/head finishing costs will come to about 40K if you were putting that amount out every 25 days you would need 150K in cashflow. Usually at this time of year there is talks of the standoff between processors and finishers onlt thing is there is less finishers every year at some stage the system will collapse.

freedominacup

Bass Reeves wrote: »

While farmers are creatures of habit.......bankers are not. Anybody now finishing a significent amount of cattle needs credit. My understanding is that banks do not approve loans unless credit is in place. Farm payments are more important in the store trade however again they are less and less important as they reduce in value. A 20K SFP will only finance 18-23 finishing stock add in a 50% loan and you are at 35-45 stock. However the real catch is financing the feed. Really big finishers use mostly straights, maize and beet. A 100 day finishing period will cost 250 in feed and allow another 50 for vet, dosing machinery electricity etc.

So to finance a double of continental steers @ 1150/head and 300/head finishing costs will come to about 40K if you were putting that amount out every 25 days you would need 150K in cashflow. Usually at this time of year there is talks of the standoff between processors and finishers onlt thing is there is less finishers every year at some stage the system will collapse.

There might be less finishers but they are starting to put through large numbers of cattle. I sold cows to a father and son who have gone from finishing a few hundred max per year 10 years ago to 7500 in the past couple of years. That one farm is killing around 3 percent of the dairy culls in the country. 30 more like it and you'd have the culls sorted out. A couple of hundred like it would finish all of the cattle in the country. They don't stop a single acre for silage. All bought wholecrop, beet and brewer's grains when indoors.

Bass Reeves

freedominacup wrote: »

There might be less finishers but they are starting to put through large numbers of cattle. I sold cows to a father and son who have gone from finishing a few hundred max per year 10 years ago to 7500 in the past couple of years. That one farm is killing around 3 percent of the dairy culls in the country. 30 more like it and you'd have the culls sorted out. A couple of hundred like it would finish all of the cattle in the country. They don't stop a single acre for silage. All bought wholecrop, beet and brewer's grains when indoors.

You are right that over last 10 years some operators have got very large. Those operators cannot be dependent on the SFP. Most have factory contracts in place or banks would not finance them. They are averaging 150 cattle/week. Thing is if 30 lads covered the national cull cow kill what way would the price of culls in the mart go.

Farrell

Bass Reeves wrote: »

You are right that over last 10 years some operators have got very large. Those operators cannot be dependent on the SFP. Most have factory contracts in place or banks would not finance them. They are averaging 150 cattle/week. Thing is if 30 lads covered the national cull cow kill what way would the price of culls in the mart go.

Or would it go down? Sad less operators, less competition!
In my opinion the small farmer is important, everything maybe against them, but they keep a floor

Danzy

I have a ban of bullocks, lot of decent frames but they are still cut from the black and white cloth, so there are a few Ps as well and the best will be doing 0=.

Some of them are gone over 30 months i'm wondering is it worth giving them a bit of ration, surely would take a bit for them to be hit by going too fat.

I'm hardly going to be at risk of hitting a bad grade fat score given their breed.

Does it make a bit of money though if i'm tipping the ration bucket in to the trough.

Why i'm asking is i've not had them before and also while i've good amount of good cover ahead, no butty stuff, the quality of many of the fields has slipped, so its no fresh Italian Rye etc and it is still Sept. grass. Good fattening land though all the same

Will it pay?

Bass Reeves

Farrell wrote: »

Or would it go down? Sad less operators, less competition!
In my opinion the small farmer is important, everything maybe against them, but they keep a floor

Of course they would go down if there was only 30 finishers nationwide bidding for them. However not really sure if these type of finishers equate to the lads they are replacing, Lots of smaller finishers tend to deal in cattle taht take 100+ days to finish in a lot of cases six months. Most bigger finishers like the one Freedom's example only hold cattle 50-100 days. So in reality that lad may only be holding them cows for 70 days if he gets away with it.6

Factory's want a good portions of cows killing 350kg+ with flesh hanging off them. A cow straight from the parlour will not finish in 70 or even 100 days in some cases. It is the same with steers. Most of these finishers like finishing bulls, factories for all there guff about bulls let these lads produce these away on contract. Big finishers handling thousands of cattle yearly finish most of them out of sheds it is unlikly they will take 300kg weanlings or 450kg FR bullocks for finishing.

Danzy wrote: »

I have a ban of bullocks, lot of decent frames but they are still cut from the black and white cloth, so there are a few Ps as well and the best will be doing 0=.

Some of them are gone over 30 months i'm wondering is it worth giving them a bit of ration, surely would take a bit for them to be hit by going too fat.

I'm hardly going to be at risk of hitting a bad grade fat score given their breed.

Does it make a bit of money though if i'm tipping the ration bucket in to the trough.

Why i'm asking is i've not had them before and also while i've good amount of good cover ahead, no butty stuff, the quality of many of the fields has slipped, so its no fresh Italian Rye etc and it is still Sept. grass. Good fattening land though all the same

Sending cattle in under fat (2-/2+) is a no no. At present grading is very tight. If you fed them 4-5kgs/head for six week would it turn finish them. If they all scored FS 3 and 50% went up a fraction of a grade it might add 6-8 cent on to the finishing price if averaging 350kg at slaughter it would add 25 euro to there price before extra weight.

Barley and soya hulls (70/30) would be adequate. It should be possible to get taht delivered in bulk( they will not bag it) for sub 200/ton. The cost will be 30-35/head. However you also have to remember that if 1-2 slip down to P-/+ you have less choice of processors ansd some processors penalise these cattle by 20c/kg so maybe 70/head.

If they were mine I would feed them but it would have to be barley and hulls or barley and hay/straw at sub 200/ton.

tanko

My suckler herd is declining in height anyway these days as they wade through the paddy fields.

patsy_mccabe

pedigree 6 wrote: »

I used to be selling red limousin calves out of Monty cows or monty cross (they still come red). Lad who bought them reckoned they were better than his suckler calves. Don't know what he was breeding. But seems a good cross.
I still am committed to the square cow that will milk though. Can be done.

I bought a 2011 suckler cow during the week and ICBF says she's a limousin out of a purebred Monty cow. She's 5 stars aswell and in calf to a char. She's fierce quiet too.
Anybody else have these. Interesting cross. Good bone and nice colour to her.

20silkcut

The only thing suckler/beef farming in this country produces efficiently is poverty.

Who2

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

I bought a 2011 suckler cow during the week and ICBF says she's a limousin out of a purebred Monty cow. She's 5 stars aswell and in calf to a char. She's fierce quiet too.
Anybody else have these. Interesting cross. Good bone and nice colour to her.

I'd a blonde simmy cross that used to consistently throw my best calf. She got bulled by a friesan bull one year and threw one of the screwiest looking heifer calves , she was worth nothing going through a ring so I ran her with the stock bull and reared her first calf last year. An e grade calf that came into 915 at 6.5 months. I decided I'd give her another run, she's an unmerciful looking rig of a thing but hopefully she'll keep producing.

Bass Reeves

Who2 wrote: »

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

I bought a 2011 suckler cow during the week and ICBF says she's a limousin out of a purebred Monty cow. She's 5 stars aswell and in calf to a char. She's fierce quiet too.
Anybody else have these. Interesting cross. Good bone and nice colour to her.

I'd a blonde simmy cross that used to consistently throw my best calf. She got bulled by a friesan bull one year and threw one of the screwiest looking heifer calves , she was worth nothing going through a ring so I ran her with the stock bull and reared her first calf last year. An e grade calf that came into 915 at 6.5 months. I decided I'd give her another run, she's an unmerciful looking rig of a thing but hopefully she'll keep producing.

You will usually find that cows that are good as either sucklers or dairy do not pay down fat on themselves.A lot of there energy goes into producing milk. If this cow produces a heifer I would be holding onto her nearly even if the stars were wrong. You also have to remember she is an O grade at best animal as opposed to most cows of Contenital breeding are R+U grade cattle.